Northwestern University Football Team Unionizes

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LARGE THE HEAD: Sep 1, 2009; "Competitive greatness is when you play your best against the best."

"Learn as if you were to live forever; live as if you were to die tomorrow."

--John Wooden

Kalit posted:

Are you just making up numbers?

It's an educated guess. I've seen a few different upkeep numbers for stadiums, practice facilities et. al. And I like to estimate toward the high side because it's safer to.

Kalit posted:

Edit: To add to this discussion, I am completely for having a decent gym at a University. To build initially, it adds a little bit more to student fees, but it encourages good habits and helps promote physical activity to those who might not have otherwise exercised. For example, I know plenty of people who would never exercise if the gym didn't have a climbing wall, raquetball courts, or a swimming pool.

Also, I'm not sure how it's usually done, but if it's a decent school they should be able to fund the gym mostly through private donors. Also, in case anyone is unaware, no state money that would have gone to grants/scholarship/tuition rates/etc can be used for building/maintaining the gym. I'm guessing that's a nationwide thing for state schools, but I know it's true at U of MN (I work for Facilities there).

The ideal is that private funds pay for everything ... in practice, it has been tricky. I've read articles about schools literally rigging student elections to approve an increase in student fees for the purpose of building gyms and other amenities. Building is good; building in spite of the wishes of those who will eventually pay for it is not.

# ? Mar 31, 2014 01:22

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# ? May 28, 2024 06:44

kayakyakr: Feb 16, 2004; Kayak is true

Dusseldorf posted:

I assume Lubbock is dry or something but do they allow drinking in that thing?

Lubbock is no longer dry, but I don't believe that they have any alcohol in there. Consider that your primary audience is 60-75% under 21... Won't work.

# ? Mar 31, 2014 01:37

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10695272/northwestern-wildcats-union-representatives-head-congress

quote:

The leaders who are attempting to unionize Northwestern football players will take their case to Capitol Hill lawmakers, aiming to protect the historic victory union organizers achieved last week.

Ramogi Huma, president of the College Athletes Players Association, told "Outside the Lines" that he and Kain Colter, the former Northwestern quarterback, will be in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday and Thursday for informational briefings with an undisclosed set of legislators.

"We want them to understand why we're doing what we're doing," Huma said. "Obviously, Congress has the power to affect conditions for college athletes as well, and we want to correct some of the false statements that have been made about what we're trying to do."

The closed-door meetings will follow mixed reaction among key politicians to last week's decision by the Chicago office of the National Labor Relations Board that football players at Northwestern qualify as employees under the definition established by federal labor law.

Strong support came from Sen. Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), whose son played soccer at the University of Virginia. He told The Washington Post, "Of course they should be able to organize. The way these people are treated by the NCAA and the universities themselves is really unpardonable, and I wish them well. I'll do anything I can to help."

Far less enthused was Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), a former U.S. Department of Education secretary and former president of the University of Tennessee.

"Imagine a university's basketball players striking before a Sweet 16 game demanding shorter practices, bigger dorm rooms, better food and no classes before 11 a.m.," he said. "This is an absurd decision that will destroy intercollegiate athletics as we know it."

For now, the matter squarely rests with the NLRB, which has ordered an election among all Northwestern scholarship football players with remaining NCAA eligibility. On April 2, the university must file a list of eligible voters. By April 9, it must file a "request for review" by the five-member NLRB board based in Washington. The university already has stated it will appeal the decision.

From there, the regional director for the NLRB in Chicago, Peter Sung Ohr, will have a couple of procedural options, both of which could shape the ultimate outcome. He can move ahead as normal with scheduling the election, within a five-day window at the end of April. If that happens, the votes likely would be impounded and not opened until any appeal by Northwestern works its way through the courts, which could take months or perhaps years.

By that time, more of the players who signed union cards in January will have moved on from the team. Already, Colter and the other seniors whose final season was last fall are ineligible to vote in the election, based on Ohr's decision limiting eligibility to those who still can play. Should the appeals process extend beyond the 2014 season, another class could be eliminated, if, at the time votes are opened, the NLRB decides to count only the ballots of current players.

So, one option before Ohr is to postpone the election until the appeals process concludes -- though that would be an atypical move; most elections move ahead despite employer objections.

"We definitely would like to hold the election as soon as possible," Huma said. "Hopefully, there will be no delay."

Huma said he is confident that no matter which course Ohr takes, players will vote to unionize under CAPA. He and Colter have said an "overwhelming majority" of players signed the union cards, and last week Colter, still a student at Northwestern, said support for unionization remains strong among his teammates.

The national NLRB board is seen by many legal analysts as unlikely to overturn Ohr's 24-page report, which sided with the players, citing the 40- to 50-hour commitment that players are expected to put into their football training, the special rules that apply to them compared to non-athletes, and their role in supporting a highly commercialized entertainment product. Northwestern football generated $235 million in revenues between 2003 and 2012, leaving a $76 million surplus after expenses.

CAPA draws its platform from the National College Players Association, of which Huma is also president. The stated goals of the NCPA are health and safety protections such as guarantees of medical coverage for injuries, minimizing college athletes' brain trauma risks, and raising the amount of money that athletic scholarships provide.

Ohr's ruling immediately prompted an NCAA statement objecting to the NLRB's decision. Since then, the National Association of Collegiate Athletic Directors has taken the same position, as well as the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics, which promotes an education-first agenda. On the other side, the Drake Group, another academics-focused reform group, issued a statement of support for the unionization of college athletes.

The American public appears split on the question. In the days before Ohr's decision, an ABC News/Washington Post poll found that 47 percent of Americans supported the idea of a union for college athletes, and 47 percent opposed. The strongest support was among minorities and people younger than 40, and the least support was among white women. Support was also stronger among Democrats and Independents than Republicans.

Ohr's decision opens the door for football and men's basketball teams at 16 other private universities in FBS conferences to request that a union represent them, as the National Labor Relations Act governs private businesses nationally. Any move to create athlete unions at public universities would have to be pursued through state labor laws, which vary widely.

Huma declined to say if CAPA is talking with teams at other universities about unionizing.

"We're not going to comment," he said. "If it happens, people will learn about it after the fact."

We're leaving the realm of simplicity now. The Student-Athlete as a concept is going to fundamentally change in the very near future.

# ? Mar 31, 2014 06:57

The 7th Guest: Dec 17, 2003

Gonna be a lot of back and forth now.

The interesting thing is that since the NCAA gets ad time during college football games, there's no way they won't run what essentially would be political ads attacking the union. And they can do it during every nationally broadcasted game. All of their advertising last year focused on the "student athlete" so they almost have to.

# ? Mar 31, 2014 07:27

got any sevens: Feb 9, 2013; by Cyrano4747

Quest For Glory II posted:

Gonna be a lot of back and forth now.

The interesting thing is that since the NCAA gets ad time during college football games, there's no way they won't run what essentially would be political ads attacking the union. And they can do it during every nationally broadcasted game. All of their advertising last year focused on the "student athlete" so they almost have to.

Might that run into the rule about political ads being equal-opportunity for both sides? Or whatever that rule is.

# ? Mar 31, 2014 07:42

Crazy Ted: Jul 29, 2003

quote:

Far less enthused was Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), a former U.S. Department of Education secretary and former president of the University of Tennessee.

"Imagine a university's basketball players striking before a Sweet 16 game demanding shorter practices, bigger dorm rooms, better food and no classes before 11 a.m.," he said. "This is an absurd decision that will destroy intercollegiate athletics as we know it."

Oh Lamar you silly man!

# ? Mar 31, 2014 10:18

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

effectual posted:

Might that run into the rule about political ads being equal-opportunity for both sides? Or whatever that rule is.

The fairness doctrine is long dead

# ? Mar 31, 2014 14:21

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

Gerund posted:

We're leaving the realm of simplicity now. The Student-Athlete as a concept is going to fundamentally change in the very near future.

And the schools that make up the NCAA have nothing but themselves to blame. The only question is whether or not they'll propose and pass realistic reforms before the union think fully takes hold.

# ? Mar 31, 2014 14:29

Kull the Conqueror: Apr 8, 2006; Take me to the green valley,
lay the sod o'er me,
I'm a young cowboy,
I know I've done wrong

Crazy Ted posted:

Lamar quote

Jesus. How widespread is this perspective among people in educational administration? These pesky kids with their desire for rooms bigger than sardine cans and better food.

# ? Mar 31, 2014 17:20

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

Kull the Conqueror posted:

Jesus. How widespread is this perspective among people in educational administration? These pesky kids with their desire for rooms bigger than sardine cans and better food.

Remember that it was in Tennessee where the local VW plant got scared away from unionization by local politicians when even management was all for unionization.

# ? Mar 31, 2014 19:01

turbomoose: Nov 29, 2008; Playing the banjo can be a relaxing activity and create lifelong friendships!
\

quote:

Far less enthused was Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), a former U.S. Department of Education secretary and former president of the University of Tennessee.

"Imagine a university's basketball players striking before a Sweet 16 game demanding shorter practices, bigger dorm rooms, better food and no classes before 11 a.m.," he said. "This is an absurd decision that will destroy intercollegiate athletics as we know it."

Yeah, because all those players that signed up to play basketball totally don't want to play in their sweet 16 game.

# ? Apr 2, 2014 18:15

LARGE THE HEAD: Sep 1, 2009; "Competitive greatness is when you play your best against the best."

"Learn as if you were to live forever; live as if you were to die tomorrow."

--John Wooden

The ironic thing is, student-athletes at the University of Tennessee and 98 percent of other colleges all get bigger dorm rooms, better food, and classes scheduled around the athletic requirements.

The practice thing is a bitch, though.

# ? Apr 3, 2014 08:54

Thoguh: Nov 8, 2002; College Slice

LARGE THE HEAD posted:

The ironic thing is, student-athletes at the University of Tennessee and 98 percent of other colleges all get bigger dorm rooms, better food, and classes scheduled around the athletic requirements.

The practice thing is a bitch, though.

I think you mean they have to schedule their classes around athletic requirements. If somebody has practice at the same time the only section of a lab is offered or something they don't get to take that class.

# ? Apr 3, 2014 14:15

Declan MacManus: Sep 1, 2011; damn i'm really in this bitch

turbomoose posted:

Yeah, because all those players that signed up to play basketball totally don't want to play in their sweet 16 game.

11 AM classes! The height of luxury!

# ? Apr 3, 2014 14:20

axeil: Feb 14, 2006

effectual posted:

Might that run into the rule about political ads being equal-opportunity for both sides? Or whatever that rule is.

The rule is that if you sell political advertisements to specific candidates you have to sell it at the lowest cost for the timeslot.

This was famously used in 2012 as Obama bought all his direct while Romney relied on SuperPACs. The stations didn't have to give the SuperPAC the favorable rate and so he ended up spending three or four times as much money for the same amount of advertisement.

# ? Apr 3, 2014 14:52

OJ MIST 2 THE DICK: Sep 11, 2008; Anytime I need to see your face I just close my eyes
And I am taken to a place
Where your crystal minds and magenta feelings
Take up shelter in the base of my spine
Sweet like a chica cherry cola
-Cheap Trick; Nap Ghost

axeil posted:

The rule is that if you sell political advertisements to specific candidates you have to sell it at the lowest cost for the timeslot.

This was famously used in 2012 as Obama bought all his direct while Romney relied on SuperPACs. The stations didn't have to give the SuperPAC the favorable rate and so he ended up spending three or four times as much money for the same amount of advertisement.

That wasn't quote what happened. Obama bought ad time in bulk much much earlier than Romney. Romney bought in much later in the cycle with smaller buys, driving his price up.

# ? Apr 4, 2014 00:28

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

N: Pat Fitzgerald urges against union

http://espn.go.com/chicago/college-football/story/_/id/10734087/pat-fitzgerald-urges-northwestern-wildcats-players-vote-union

quote:

EVANSTON, Ill. -- Northwestern coach Pat Fitzgerald is finally talking to his team about the unionization push and outlining why players should vote against forming a union later this month.

Fitzgerald broke his silence Wednesday after conferring with university attorneys. He had been unable to address the topic since January when Northwestern players, led by former quarterback Kain Colter, filed a petition with the NLRB to unionize. Fitzgerald read a letter to players and sent it to their parents, and has since addressed the topic another time.

"I believe it's in their best interests to vote no," Fitzgerald said Saturday following a team practice. "With the research that I've done, I'm going to stick to the facts and I'm going to do everything in my power to educate our guys. Our university is going to do that. We'll give them all the resources they need to get the facts."

Northwestern players will vote April 25 whether to form a union after the regional director of Chicago's National Labor Relations Board office ruled last month that players are employees of the school and have the right to unionize. Northwestern is appealing the ruling to the national NLRB office.

Fitzgerald is prohibited from making promises to players about benefits they would receive if they vote against unionizing. He also cannot make any threats or interrogate players on how they will vote. He is allowed to answer questions, provide materials and state his views on the topic until 24 hours before the voting period.

"Right now, we have great protocols in place, and we haven't been forced to do that by any third party," Fitzgerald said. "I know our guys trust me. I've been pretty clear with my support."

Several older Northwestern players on Saturday voiced their opposition to a union, while maintaining that changes must be made to help college athletes. They said the union debate has been a distraction. Quarterback Trevor Siemian said unionizing might hurt the Wildcats in their goal of winning the Big Ten.

"I think a lot of guys feel the same as I do," said senior center Brandon Vitabile, a member of the team's leadership council. "Coach Fitz has done everything in his power and been a voice for us and he has gotten changes. He goes to [American Football Coaches Association] meetings and does act in our interests. I've had conversations with him before all this happened.

"Guys have to realize the ramifications of what may occur."

Vitabile added that "no one knows" what unionization would mean for the players. The College Athletes Players Association, which represents Northwestern players in the union push, believes collective bargaining will help athletes receive long-term medical coverage, increase the value of scholarships, provide due process rights in disciplinary situations and allow them to profit from the use of their likenesses. CAPA has stated that its primary mission is not to get schools to pay players.

"Things do need to change, and I hope the NCAA sees that," senior running back Venric Mark said. "But at the end of the day, Northwestern treats us very well, and we do not need a third party to come in between us and the coaches."

Northwestern must file its request to appeal with the national NLRB office by Wednesday. CAPA then has seven days to file a rebuttal brief. The NLRB then decides whether it will consider the appeal.

If the NLRB considers the appeal, ballots from the April 25 vote will be impounded until a decision is made. If a majority of players vote to unionize and the appeal is denied, CAPA would attempt to start the collective-bargaining process. If Northwestern refuses, the case would go to federal court. If players vote no but the appeal is denied, they could vote again 12 months after the ballots are unsealed.

Vitabile confirmed that players are receiving information from both Northwestern and CAPA. Players will continue to discuss the pros and cons leading up to the vote, which will take place on campus at an undisclosed location.

"It is a little weird, but at the end of the day, we all have to take our own stance," Mark said. "You have to go with what you believe in. I strongly believe that Northwestern has done everything in their power to make me a better person and a better player. I'm taking my stance and everybody on the team knows that. But I'm not here to persuade you one way or another."

Fitzgerald serves on the AFCA's board of trustees and has discussions at both the Big Ten and NCAA levels about improving the experience for players. He said no current or former players asked him for help in improving their experience before filing the union petition.

"This is not a national issue," Fitzgerald said. "That's my understanding with the NLRB. This is that organization against Northwestern, and I have to educate our guys on that. That's what we'll stick to, the facts, and I look forward to unbelievable positive change."

Vitabile wouldn't speculate on whether the team is leaning one way on unionizing.

"The 25th [of April] is what really matters," Mark said.

V: Direct management with hiring & firing duties shocked, shocked that employees do not go to him directly with complaints nor had warned him about their attempts to gain recognition and restitution under federal law.

# ? Apr 5, 2014 23:43

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

I like how he never actually says what would be bad about them unionizing.

# ? Apr 5, 2014 23:45

The 7th Guest: Dec 17, 2003

Anyone that says "get the facts" sounds like the most corporate shmuck

# ? Apr 5, 2014 23:47

Deteriorata: Feb 6, 2005

Quest For Glory II posted:

Anyone that says "get the facts" sounds like the most corporate shmuck

Yeah, I don't see the upside of Fitzgerald getting into it. Once he takes a side the losing side is going to resent him no matter what the result is.

# ? Apr 5, 2014 23:50

The 7th Guest: Dec 17, 2003

ALSO,

quote:

Quarterback Trevor Siemian said unionizing might hurt the Wildcats in their goal of winning the Big Ten.

This is the funniest line in the article for about a BILLION reasons

# ? Apr 5, 2014 23:52

say no to bats: Aug 15, 2001; Rumblee tumblee, climin' a hunny tree

Deteriorata posted:

Yeah, I don't see the upside of Fitzgerald getting into it. Once he takes a side the losing side is going to resent him no matter what the result is.

There's zero chance in hell the NCAA would let him not take a stance on this, much less the stance he did take. I'm sure poo poo straight out of the Wal-Mart and McDonald's playbook is being used already.

# ? Apr 6, 2014 03:48

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Mark Emmert came out today and called the unionization attempt 'grossly inappropriate'

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/10738559/mark-emmert-ncaa-president-says-unionization-attempt-grossly-inappropriate

Because making money off of kids and then kicking them off of scholarships if they get injured playing for you IS appropriate, obviously.

# ? Apr 6, 2014 21:51

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

quote:

The Division I board of directors is expected to vote in August on major governance changes that could include awarding cost of attendance to athletes and would also allow the so-called power conferences to operate under a model slightly different than everyone else.

"We're going to improve the lot for the real victims here, the top 32-64 teams in the nation that are limited in paying only .01% of a athletes worth as compensation. They should be allowed to pay .02% of an athletes worth. Because that's fair."

# ? Apr 6, 2014 22:16

The 7th Guest: Dec 17, 2003

FlamingLiberal posted:

Mark Emmert came out today and called the unionization attempt 'grossly inappropriate'

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/10738559/mark-emmert-ncaa-president-says-unionization-attempt-grossly-inappropriate

Because making money off of kids and then kicking them off of scholarships if they get injured playing for you IS appropriate, obviously.

There's just as much of a possibility of a future of college football post-NCAA so I'm sure that fear is a part of what is driving him right now.

# ? Apr 7, 2014 00:37

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

I just realized. Does this mean that in the next NCAA Football, every team will have all numbers with no names, except Northwestern? Lol.

# ? Apr 7, 2014 02:22

Zoran: Aug 19, 2008; I lost to you once, monster. I shall not lose again! Die now, that our future can live!

Volkerball posted:

I just realized. Does this mean that in the next NCAA Football, every team will have all numbers with no names, except Northwestern? Lol.

The NCAA games already didn't have correct names. The point of contention was that they were modeling the players after their real-life counterparts anyway.

# ? Apr 7, 2014 02:24

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

I know they didn't. The default rosters just say QB #12, etc all the way through. I'm wondering if, assuming they do decide to unionize, it'd be like that for every team except Northwestern, who's players would be able to sell their likenesses and have their actual names used.

# ? Apr 7, 2014 02:49

swickles: Aug 21, 2006; I guess that I don't need that though
Now you're just some QB that I used to know

They also found in the code though that players were referenced by name. Apparently there were sets of plays that were designed for particular players like TEBOW1, TEBOW2, etc. It was never seen on the front end, but was pretty prevalent in the code.

# ? Apr 7, 2014 02:58

Declan MacManus: Sep 1, 2011; damn i'm really in this bitch

swickles posted:

They also found in the code though that players were referenced by name. Apparently there were sets of plays that were designed for particular players like TEBOW1, TEBOW2, etc. It was never seen on the front end, but was pretty prevalent in the code.

That and the fact that EA themselves were the ones leaking the updated rosters under sockpuppets on places like OperationSports

# ? Apr 7, 2014 03:00

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

Volkerball posted:

I just realized. Does this mean that in the next NCAA Football, every team will have all numbers with no names, except Northwestern? Lol.

There is no next NCAA Football, they cancelled the franchise and fired the team earlier this year

# ? Apr 7, 2014 03:08

CharlestheHammer: Jun 26, 2011; YOU SAY MY POSTS ARE THE RAVINGS OF THE DUMBEST PERSON ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH BUT YOU YOURSELF ARE READING THEM. CURIOUS!

Volkerball posted:

I know they didn't. The default rosters just say QB #12, etc all the way through. I'm wondering if, assuming they do decide to unionize, it'd be like that for every team except Northwestern, who's players would be able to sell their likenesses and have their actual names used.

That would probably fall under illegal benefits.

If not that could make unionzation an interesting way to lander booster money.

# ? Apr 7, 2014 03:09

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

The Glumslinger posted:

There is no next NCAA Football, they cancelled the franchise and fired the team earlier this year

Wow just read an article on this and it sounds really stupid and petty. All over names and faces on a video game.

# ? Apr 7, 2014 03:21

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Volkerball posted:

Wow just read an article on this and it sounds really stupid and petty. All over names and faces on a video game.

I thought it was rumored that Notre Dame or someone else big wanted to pull out of the whole thing as well.

# ? Apr 7, 2014 03:42

Declan MacManus: Sep 1, 2011; damn i'm really in this bitch

Volkerball posted:

Wow just read an article on this and it sounds really stupid and petty. All over names and faces on a video game.

Potentially having to pay out money to 126 universities/players cuts into the profit margin big time, and the series has never sold like Madden (or even like NBA 2K if I'm not mistaken)

# ? Apr 7, 2014 04:12

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

It's not really shocking. I can't imagine the NCAA made a ton off of that, and just out of spite they would do it anyway to screw the players.

# ? Apr 7, 2014 16:24

The 7th Guest: Dec 17, 2003

It's not really petty anyway. Think about why they wouldn't just release an NCAA Football game with completely generic player models... it's because the player likenesses sell. The game makes millions of dollars but now they won't make it. That establishes value. If they had to cut a check it would destroy their margins.

What sucks is, because EA's the only company trusted with football, now there's no alternative. No NFL2K for NCAA with first person mode or anything.

The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Apr 7, 2014

# ? Apr 7, 2014 17:51

got any sevens: Feb 9, 2013; by Cyrano4747

Outside the lines today is about this, and they're running comments on #collegeunion. I'm bluntly trolling it.

# ? Apr 7, 2014 20:19

Volkerball: Oct 15, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Quest For Glory II posted:

It's not really petty anyway. Think about why they wouldn't just release an NCAA Football game with completely generic player models... it's because the player likenesses sell. The game makes millions of dollars but now they won't make it. That establishes value. If they had to cut a check it would destroy their margins.

Madden pulls a profit. Even smaller sports manage to get their likenesses secured while still providing quality games. It's absolutely petty. We'll ruin the sanctity of the game played by student athletes just out there having fun if we let them be in video games! :qq:

# ? Apr 8, 2014 06:30

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# ? May 28, 2024 06:44

R.D. Mangles: Jan 10, 2004

Volkerball posted:

I know they didn't. The default rosters just say QB #12, etc all the way through. I'm wondering if, assuming they do decide to unionize, it'd be like that for every team except Northwestern, who's players would be able to sell their likenesses and have their actual names used.

Yes, a corporation will be willing to pay US dollars to license the likeness of Northwestern football players.

# ? Apr 8, 2014 06:51

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Football Funhouse > Northwestern University Football Team Unionizes

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