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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Basically, what the hell happened to break the only benefit of console games? Real answer? The demands of
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Oh boy, I guess they're running out of oxygen in the XBox Sucks Thread because we're doing here now, again, without provocation, because what is anyone going to do about it. Go ahead and wipe your asses on the walls, I guess.
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May 5, 2014 11:51
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Sakurazuka posted:Real answer? The demands of Hell, the tail end of last gen has made it clear that Sony was ahead of the curve by allowing developers the ability to install stuff on the hard drive, as evidenced by stuff like GTA 5 and the forthcoming Wolfenstein game requiring installs for the 360 version, and an increase of games using both the hard drive and the disc drive simultaneously to read data.
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May 5, 2014 12:02
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My favorite xbone game is Powerstar Golf. I wish hitting the ball was more than just a quick time event though.
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May 5, 2014 13:58
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Delusibeta posted:Hell, the tail end of last gen has made it clear that Sony was ahead of the curve by allowing developers the ability to install stuff on the hard drive, as evidenced by stuff like GTA 5 and the forthcoming Wolfenstein game requiring installs for the 360 version, and an increase of games using both the hard drive and the disc drive simultaneously to read data. The 360 had optional hard drive installs for games in 2008. It wasn't a partial install, it was the whole game. Sony had to have hard drive installs because of the speed of the PS3's blu-ray drive. Both GTA V and Wolfenstein still require data to be installed before playing on the PS3 versions.
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May 5, 2014 14:10
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Mill Village posted:The 360 had optional hard drive installs for games in 2008. It wasn't a partial install, it was the whole game. Sony had to have hard drive installs because of the speed of the PS3's blu-ray drive. Both GTA V and Wolfenstein still require data to be installed before playing on the PS3 versions. I know, but GTA V and Wolfenstein are one of the few 360 games to require installs before play. Also, there are other games that require use of both the disc drive and the hard drive (I believe that's the reasoning for Titanfall 360 not being available on Games on Demand, for example).
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May 5, 2014 15:05
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Mill Village posted:The 360 had optional hard drive installs for games in 2008. It wasn't a partial install, it was the whole game. Sony had to have hard drive installs because of the speed of the PS3's blu-ray drive. Both GTA V and Wolfenstein still require data to be installed before playing on the PS3 versions. You're misinterpreting his point. Until GTA 5, every single player, DLC-less Xbox 360 game had to be designed in such a way that the game could operate entirely if loaded directly from the disc (there were a few exceptions for multiplayer functionality in some games like Halo 4, which required an install of a few gigs). This was awesome in the sense that you could be up and running within 30 seconds of sticking your game in the drive (including patching), but it was seriously limiting what was possible in your game, mainly due to access time issues. This finally came to a head because, as annoying as those first installs and patches were, once they were done they were at least done for good, and it greatly expanded on what was possible in your game; you're a lot more flexible with low RAM swapping data out constantly if your access time is measured in single-digit milliseconds instead of hundreds of milliseconds. This is more or less fixed now on the 360 side because it's pretty much expected to have at least a small hard drive in your 360 now, and a lot of modern game design can't handle the lack of a hard drive to load some data from.
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May 5, 2014 15:09
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univbee posted:You're misinterpreting his point. Until GTA 5, every single player, DLC-less Xbox 360 game had to be designed in such a way that the game could operate entirely if loaded directly from the disc (there were a few exceptions for multiplayer functionality in some games like Halo 4, which required an install of a few gigs). This was awesome in the sense that you could be up and running within 30 seconds of sticking your game in the drive (including patching), but it was seriously limiting what was possible in your game, mainly due to access time issues. This finally came to a head because, as annoying as those first installs and patches were, once they were done they were at least done for good, and it greatly expanded on what was possible in your game; you're a lot more flexible with low RAM swapping data out constantly if your access time is measured in single-digit milliseconds instead of hundreds of milliseconds. If they ever figured out how to make partial game installs playable*, then it would be much less of an issue for the Bone and PS4 (not sure if the PS4 tries to do this). The huge patch sizes is a much bigger issue IMO, especially for people in low bandwidth third world countries like New Zealand. Whoever thought DR3 needed a 15 GB patch should be forced to fight to the death against the guy who thought BF-series needs ten 5 GB patches. Is it also possible to simply decline a patch? You could do it on the 360, but on the Bone it feels like if I don't do it I can't play, both for system patches and game patches. Maybe I just didn't hit "B" hard enough though. *I mean if they actually implemented it so that it worked.
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May 5, 2014 16:21
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Saladman posted:If they ever figured out how to make partial game installs playable*, then it would be much less of an issue for the Bone and PS4 (not sure if the PS4 tries to do this). The huge patch sizes is a much bigger issue IMO, especially for people in low bandwidth third world countries like New Zealand. Whoever thought DR3 needed a 15 GB patch should be forced to fight to the death against the guy who thought BF-series needs ten 5 GB patches. Isn't playing partially installed/downloaded games already possible on both Xbone and PS4? Admittedly, it's on a game-by-game basis and tends to work better on the PS4 for some reason, but yeah. I distinctly remember reading that Need for Speed Rivals allows play before the game is entirely installed on both next-gen formats, for example. As for patches, AFAIK there's no way to decline a patch on the Xbone and that cancelling a patch still results in the game getting uninstalled wholesale. I dunno if they changed that in system updates, though.
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May 5, 2014 16:29
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Saladman posted:If they ever figured out how to make partial game installs playable*, then it would be much less of an issue for the Bone and PS4 (not sure if the PS4 tries to do this). The huge patch sizes is a much bigger issue IMO, especially for people in low bandwidth third world countries like New Zealand. Whoever thought DR3 needed a 15 GB patch should be forced to fight to the death against the guy who thought BF-series needs ten 5 GB patches. I'm not sure if the press release person was confused but they made statements suggesting that the PS4 and/or Xbox One versions of Wolfenstein might support partial installs. Most games on both PS4 and Xbox One have implemented some form of functionality so you can start playing relatively quickly while the game is installing. They need to fix its speed on the Xbox One, but on PS4 most games are bootable within about 2 minutes and you can force-run them without patching if you want to (although network functionality gets disabled if you don't patch), with limited game options when you're starting (e.g. NBA 2K14 only lets you play quick match; you have to wait for the full install to do all the career mode stuff). The same things apply to download versions but obviously with a generally longer wait time due to the difference in speed; I don't know about Xbox One, but on PS4 a few games let you specify which game mode you want to prioritize; for CoD Ghosts you can tell it to install multiplayer or single player first, and for Killzone you can do the same, with the single player data installing in order of the chapters, so you can initially play through the prologue and with a little luck the installer will have finished Chapter 1 by the time you get there, and then Chapter 2 etc. If I'm not mistaken the difference in install/load speed between the PS4 and the Xbox One is a bit of a mystery, since the areas where the Xbox One is significantly weaker shouldn't affect them, so maybe that at least will be something that will be fixed in a firmware update.
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May 5, 2014 16:34
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Lysandus posted:My favorite xbone game is Powerstar Golf. I wish hitting the ball was more than just a quick time event though. Wait, what?
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May 5, 2014 16:37
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Explain How! posted:Wait, what? His favorite xbone game is Powerstar Golf. He wishes hitting the ball was more than just a quick time event though.
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May 5, 2014 16:44
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univbee posted:The same things apply to download versions but obviously with a generally longer wait time due to the difference in speed; I don't know about Xbox One, but on PS4 a few games let you specify which game mode you want to prioritize; for CoD Ghosts you can tell it to install multiplayer or single player first... That would be awesome. I only have two games on the 'bone (BF4 and DR3) and it took like 80% install to play DR3 beyond the intro scene up to the plane crash. BF4 was a little better -- I think SP started at around 50%, but because I downloaded BF4 and got a disc for DR3, 50% seemed unbearably long (and it was; maybe 4-6 hours). Had to get up to or very close to 100% to play multi on BF4 IIRC. It's kind of weird that there's no info online about this; I looked quite a bit and only found crickets or very rough estimates.
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May 5, 2014 16:49
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Explain How! posted:Wait, what?
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May 5, 2014 16:58
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Edit ^^^ I'm ok with them when they aren't in cutscenes. gently caress you Resident Evil, letting me sit back and think I'm watching a cinematic and then bam, press these buttons in this specific order and if you don't you get to rewatch the stupid cutscene over and over again until you get it right. What's the point? It's way more annoying than the voice over in Trials. Play it the first time, sure, but once I fail and retry the track you shouldn't replay it because I don't want to hear the same 3 stupid one liners 100x. Saladman posted:That would be awesome. I only have two games on the 'bone (BF4 and DR3) and it took like 80% install to play DR3 beyond the intro scene up to the plane crash. BF4 was a little better -- I think SP started at around 50%, but because I downloaded BF4 and got a disc for DR3, 50% seemed unbearably long (and it was; maybe 4-6 hours). Had to get up to or very close to 100% to play multi on BF4 IIRC. It's kind of weird that there's no info online about this; I looked quite a bit and only found crickets or very rough estimates. I think Titanfall and Tomb raider were good for starting below 50%, but my memory is very fuzzy. I am however disappointed in the speeds I get from Xbone downloads. Steam for example regularly maxes out my connection, so a game the size of Titanfall would be done in about an hour or so. It took me just over 3 hours for Titanfall and it's not like I got it on the release day either. A c E fucked around with this message at 17:03 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 16:59
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univbee posted:If I'm not mistaken the difference in install/load speed between the PS4 and the Xbox One is a bit of a mystery, since the areas where the Xbox One is significantly weaker shouldn't affect them, so maybe that at least will be something that will be fixed in a firmware update. It's not a mystery. The Xbox downloads patches before it copies anything from disc. With a big enough patch or slow enough internet connection you'll be waiting a while. There's also no way to tell a game to install the MP first.
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May 5, 2014 17:05
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Chick3n posted:It's not a mystery. The Xbox downloads patches before it copies anything from disc. With a big enough patch or slow enough internet connection you'll be waiting a while. It definitely doesn't help, but even without patches there are significant slowdowns. Here's how long it takes to launch Assassin's Creed IV after inserting the disc for the first time on both consoles: Xbox One (offline, no update): 5 minutes 50 seconds PS4: 42 seconds The hard drive and Blu-ray drive on both consoles should be roughly the same speed, so it's a mystery why the Xbox One takes 8 times longer to accomplish what should be more or less the same installation task. univbee fucked around with this message at 17:16 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 17:11
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Dr VideoGames 0.299 posted:Oh boy, I guess they're running out of oxygen in the XBox Sucks Thread because we're doing here now, again, without provocation, because what is anyone going to do about it. Go ahead and wipe your asses on the walls, I guess. I really like the XBone, and wasn't really joking. Less money overall spent on hardware for the ability to play the most recent games, with an input device designed for playing them which wouldn't even be a thing if PC gamers (master race) had had their way over the years. All my guests love it too. Standing up to a PC gamer (master race) on Something Awful dot com forums is an excellent way to get a red title. Such is their tyranny. Better to tray them like a Tea Partier or grizzly and just play dead. If I get a red title because of this, remember me as a stupid newbie, not someone with a red title. EDIT: This board moves quicker than I gave it credit for. Never mind me! I've never tried to play a game right when I got it on the Bone, and I've been installing games on the 360 since it was possible to. Coming from the original Xbox, not having a hard drive seemed... foolish. CAPT. Rainbowbeard fucked around with this message at 18:07 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 17:44
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For all this patch and install talk I don't think I have ever noticed any of it. It might be since I just buy games digitally so I just walk away and play later. I have never gone to play a game and have to wait for a patch to download and install. I really hope HBOGO and Plex hurry up and release for the xbox. Once that happens I won't need my chromecast.
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May 5, 2014 17:52
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Dr VideoGames 0.299 posted:Oh boy, I guess they're running out of oxygen in the XBox Sucks Thread because we're doing here now, again, without provocation, because what is anyone going to do about it. Go ahead and wipe your asses on the walls, I guess. New games can't come soon enough so we can all be distracted. Now everyone get back in your Titan.
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May 5, 2014 17:53
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:I really like the XBone, and wasn't really joking. Less money overall spent on hardware for the ability to play the most recent games, with an input device designed for playing them which wouldn't even be a thing if PC gamers (master race) had had their way over the years. TBF it would be nice to use the X1 controller if MS would simply release to the public the drivers they've been using since before the launch of the X1. Having the ability to use controllers from every single console generation (dating back to the Atari 2600) is really nice, so I hope MS gets on the ball. The X1 D-pad feels a lot nicer than the 360 pad.
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May 5, 2014 18:00
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DangerZoneDelux posted:For all this patch and install talk I don't think I have ever noticed any of it. It might be since I just buy games digitally so I just walk away and play later. I have never gone to play a game and have to wait for a patch to download and install. I really hope HBOGO and Plex hurry up and release for the xbox. Once that happens I won't need my chromecast. Other than with Dead Rising 3, I don't think it's a significant problem for any digital downloads. I'm not optimistic about Plex happening, the guy who said he's doing it isn't one of the Plex devs, he's literally just some guy who posts on their forums and didn't even ask the Plex devs prior to getting approval from Microsoft if it was OK for him to do so. It could still happen, but take it with a gigantic grain of salt, especially since the nature of Plex is the kind of thing that a single important person who's in contact with Microsoft can pretty much immediately shut down if they decide to do so. EDIT now with proper conext.  http://www.polygon.com/2014/5/5/5683862/bill-gates-xbox-spinoff-support-absolutely quote:In response to questions about separating Bing and the Xbox division, and acknowledging that Microsoft has spun off products like Expedia and Slate, Gates said that separating Microsoft's Xbox gaming division from gaming as a whole at Microsoft isn't necessarily an "obvious" move. univbee fucked around with this message at 18:26 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 18:04
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Strange how different the quote is based on the source: From Fox Business: "Gates, the founder and former CEO of Microsoft, said he’s been helping new CEO Satya Nadella transition into his new leadership role and that he would support Nadella if the new CEO proposed a spinoff of one of Microsoft’s units. But Gates said he didn’t foresee either Bing, the company’s search engine division, or Xbox, its gaming division, as potential stand-alone companies because they are part of Microsoft’s long-term strategy." http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2014/05/05/buffett-leery-social-media-stocks-ipos/
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May 5, 2014 18:30
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VincesUndies posted:Strange how different the quote is based on the source: The quote is from another part of the interview. quote:Interviewer Liz Claman then asked Gates if he would support Nadella if he wanted to spin off the Xbox division.
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May 5, 2014 18:33
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It sounds more like basic corporate politics than a hint that they'd even consider selling off the xbox. There's no way in hell Gates would, in this important transitional phase, publicly express doubt in the new CEO. She could have asked him if he would support Nadella's decision to have scratch n' sniff stickers that smell like farts on all physical media sold by Microsoft going forward and he would smile and nod.
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May 5, 2014 18:41
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mysterious frankie posted:It sounds more like basic corporate politics than a hint that they'd even consider selling off the xbox. There's no way in hell Gates would, in this important transitional phase, publicly express doubt in the new CEO. She could have asked him if he would support Nadella's decision to have scratch n' sniff stickers that smell like farts on all physical media sold by Microsoft going forward and he would smile and nod. When you watch the actual interview, that's exactly how it sounds. Bill is explaining how important their role is in gaming and she cuts him off with "but if he did that would you support him?".
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May 5, 2014 18:46
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VincesUndies posted:When you watch the actual interview, that's exactly how it sounds. Bill is explaining how important their role is in gaming and she cuts him off with "but if he did that would you support him?". They'd recall the One and upgrade the ESRAM* before they'd let Xbox go. You only sell off something that iconic when you get backed into a financial wall as a company, not when one of your division's product release has a interminably slow start. People who think this dumb console hemorrhaging money has anyone in Redmond clocking in sleepless nights don't really get just how far out the planning horizon of a multinational goes. *won't happen, not saying it would happen.
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May 5, 2014 19:03
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mysterious frankie posted:They'd recall the One and upgrade the ESRAM* before they'd let Xbox go. You only sell off something that iconic when you get backed into a financial wall as a company, not when one of your division's product release has a interminably slow start. People who think this dumb console hemorrhaging money has anyone in Redmond clocking in sleepless nights don't really get just how far out the planning horizon of a multinational goes. 
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May 5, 2014 19:05
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DangerZoneDelux posted:For all this patch and install talk I don't think I have ever noticed any of it. It might be since I just buy games digitally so I just walk away and play later. I have never gone to play a game and have to wait for a patch to download and install. I really hope HBOGO and Plex hurry up and release for the xbox. Once that happens I won't need my chromecast. Laserface was complaining about the amount of updates he received because he is in the preview programme, they get a tonne more than us average schmucks. There's a website up for Sunset Overdrive now, no game play though http://www.overchargedrink.com/#!/while-visiting I guess they'll save that for E3. mysterious frankie posted:It sounds more like basic corporate politics than a hint that they'd even consider selling off the xbox. There's no way in hell Gates would, in this important transitional phase, publicly express doubt in the new CEO. She could have asked him if he would support Nadella's decision to have scratch n' sniff stickers that smell like farts on all physical media sold by Microsoft going forward and he would smile and nod. Exactly. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill. The question is 'Bill, would you support a business decision of your recently appointed CEO, yes or no' It would have been more of a story if he'd said no.
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May 5, 2014 19:09
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mysterious frankie posted:They'd recall the One and upgrade the ESRAM* before they'd let Xbox go. You really overestimate how much Microsoft likes spending money to try and maintain a division that has been hemorrhaging money. During the 360's reign they had people talking about axeing the division because of how much money they had to sink into it to make it profitable. Doing that again when your competitor isn't making itself look stupid?
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May 5, 2014 19:13
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It's not really a fair question to ask, because he's either saying "yes I would support his decision and get rid of Xbox" "BILL GATES SUPPORTS GETTING RID OF XBOX BRAND, SHARES PLUMMET" or "No I would prefer to keep Xbox under MS even if he wanted to sell up" "BILL GATES HAS NO CONFIDENCE IN NEW CEO'S DECISIONS".
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May 5, 2014 19:15
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A shrubbery! posted:It's not really a fair question to ask, because he's either saying "yes I would support his decision and get rid of Xbox" "BILL GATES SUPPORTS GETTING RID OF XBOX BRAND, SHARES PLUMMET" or "No I would prefer to keep Xbox under MS even if he wanted to sell up" "BILL GATES HAS NO CONFIDENCE IN NEW CEO'S DECISIONS". He works in the corporate world so he's no stranger to non commital run around. The fact that his answer wasn't "Of course I would support whatever the CEO decided. not MY decision HIS" is kinda weird.
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May 5, 2014 19:18
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Sedisp posted:He works in the corporate world so he's no stranger to non commital run around. The fact that his answer wasn't "Of course I would support whatever the CEO decided. not MY decision HIS" is kinda weird. In context it doesn't sound quite so exciting. "Gates, the founder and former CEO of Microsoft, said he’s been helping new CEO Satya Nadella transition into his new leadership role and that he would support Nadella if the new CEO proposed a spinoff of one of Microsoft’s units. But Gates said he didn’t foresee either Bing, the company’s search engine division, or Xbox, its gaming division, as potential stand-alone companies because they are part of Microsoft’s long-term strategy."
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May 5, 2014 19:25
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Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:Reminder They've been hit so hard this time because they made one mistake after another selling this thing, to be sure. It's a console that currently sounds good to someone like me; older but not old guy in the urban US who wants a media center that could occasionally be used to play a game and who has a deep preexisting investment in the Windows OS environment in their home. That said they're not going to stop backing it, because Xbox the brand- despite their missteps with the current iteration- is vital. It's probably going to change a whole lot within the next 18 months (sort of like how the rumors about Windows 9 seem to indicate it's basically Windows 8, minus the "gently caress you, do things our way." attitude), but they ain't selling their Chuck E. Cheese until they're in Atari levels of trouble.
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May 5, 2014 19:26
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Sedisp posted:You really overestimate how much Microsoft likes spending money to try and maintain a division that has been hemorrhaging money. During the 360's reign they had people talking about axeing the division because of how much money they had to sink into it to make it profitable. They're not to a point where they'll take actions that drastic. I think they new CEO is going to be given a chance to fix a lot of the issues caused by their hosed up, toxic corporate culture before sacrifices are called for. By my estimation, Nadelle is going to look at something as iconic as the Xbox brand and choose to attempt rehabilitation, rather than punting. He's not the kind of ruthless Steve Jobsian leader who would clean house like that.
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May 5, 2014 19:34
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Crafty posted:In context it doesn't sound quite so exciting. That's even less in context that the one word tweet. There is not a single quote in any of that. Surmising someone's position is a a lot different than the words they said. mysterious frankie posted:That said they're not going to stop backing it, because Xbox the brand- despite their missteps with the current iteration- is vital. It's probably going to change a whole lot within the next 18 months (sort of like how the rumors about Windows 9 seem to indicate it's basically Windows 8, minus the "gently caress you, do things our way." attitude), but they ain't selling their Chuck E. Cheese until they're in Atari levels of trouble. Their android royalties are vital the X1? Not so much. What's vital is they keep relevant and a console marketed towards upper middle class people that want a cable box might not be the best way to do it because as you are evidence of they are already a part of your ecosystem. mysterious frankie posted:They're not to a point where they'll take actions that drastic. I think they new CEO is going to be given a chance to fix a lot of the issues caused by their hosed up, toxic corporate culture before sacrifices are called for. By my estimation, Nadelle is going to look at something as iconic as the Xbox brand and choose to attempt rehabilitation, rather than punting. He's not the kind of ruthless Steve Jobsian leader who would clean house like that. Oh he's absolutely not going to kill it anytime soon but rehabilitation is also extreme. I'd bet he's going to wait and see and if things don't turn around without plunging mountains of cash into it start winding it down.
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May 5, 2014 19:34
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Isn't the ESRAM thing basically just the Cell thing from last gen? As in, a hardware quirk that PC devs took a while to figure out if they even did at all? The in-house Playstation game devs really picked up the ball there near the end, you have to give them credit where it's due. It's too soon to get super worried about anything, I think.
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May 5, 2014 19:36
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Isn't the ESRAM thing basically just the Cell thing from last gen? As in, a hardware quirk that PC devs took a while to figure out if they even did at all? Kind of. In a lot of ways the cell was worse since devs just hated it. ESRAM limitations can be gotten around but it's a lot of annoying hoops and obviously isn't too fun. But you end up with Microsoft needing to be willing to start throwing money at publishers to bother caring like Sony did.
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May 5, 2014 19:42
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Isn't the ESRAM thing basically just the Cell thing from last gen? As in, a hardware quirk that PC devs took a while to figure out if they even did at all? The problem is that it's a design flaw compared to the PS4. The Xbone as 8Gb of slow DDR3 RAM paired with 32Mb of esRAM. The PS4 has 8Gb of GDDR5 RAM, which is comparable to the esRAM (actually, I think GDDR5 is faster than esRAM, but I'll have to double check). I don't think I need to explain why the Xbone is hobbled in this regard. Meanwhile, the Cell, while an utter pain in the butt to work with, is capable of more than the 360's CPU. Honestly? I expect the Xbone to repeat the Xbox 1's lifespan and be replaced by the end of 2018. By then, I suspect there will be major question marks over the viability of the console business model compared to the all-you-can-game streaming subscription model.
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May 5, 2014 19:51
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Isn't the ESRAM thing basically just the Cell thing from last gen? As in, a hardware quirk that PC devs took a while to figure out if they even did at all? Comparing ESRAM to the Cell is a red herring. Maybe developers will be able to fit 1080p into the ESRAM later, but unlike the PS3 with the Cell, it will never allow the Xbox One to be as powerful as the PS4.
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May 5, 2014 20:16
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