|
Opposing Farce posted:But the pyromancy flame is in a chest after you beat the Flexile Sentry? There's a dark pyromancy flame down the hole.
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 06:59 |
|
|
Kaldaris posted:The Heide Sword is technically better if only because it has better scaling IIRC. The problem is, scaling is terrible, especially early in the game. The Heide Knight Sword has C/C for STR/DEX, meaning below 30 STR/DEX, each point in those stats adds 1 damage to the sword per swing. Hardly a worthwhile investment, when you can upgrade it for a few hundred souls and a shard and get something like +12 damage per level. Basically, base damage and weapon upgrades matter much more early in the game when your stats are low, and the Fire Longsword wins here.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:34
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:Blue Sentinel Rank 2 get. I am now, in fact, grossly incandescent (when summoned or invading as a blue phantom). Good thing that all of the rank 3 rewards are obtainable elsewhere, I guess. Hyper Crab Tank posted:The problem is, scaling is terrible, especially early in the game. The Heide Knight Sword has C/C for STR/DEX, meaning below 30 STR/DEX, each point in those stats adds 1 damage to the sword per swing. Hardly a worthwhile investment, when you can upgrade it for a few hundred souls and a shard and get something like +12 damage per level. Basically, base damage and weapon upgrades matter much more early in the game when your stats are low, and the Fire Longsword wins here. Having had both of them at similar levels throughout my first game, it seemed like the Heide Knight sword was doing damage to most enemies simply because it's lightning instead of fire. And everything that the fire longsword would've done more damage to took even more damage from a regular mace.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:35
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:Its not a false dichotomy, your just stuck in a mentality where gameplay has to always be fun in the traditional sense. Gameplay wise, the fight is designed so that he resembles a giant hollow soldier. This is an intentional choice. Its supposed to remind you of fighting them because it reinforces what Vendrick has become. If he had been fought another way it wouldn't of sold the scene as well. The only problem is he has too much health. Other than that the fight is perfectly fine. They didn't ignore gameplay, they used a specific kind of gameplay to tell the story. If they weren't doing that then Vendrick probably would of been more like Gwyn, which might be more fun to fight but would ruin his story and what makes the encounter unique. This all reads to me like poo poo you made up/rationalized after the fact to justify things to yourself, to me. Because you want to like it and with gamers that is usually enough to justify anything. The hell does "fun in the traditional sense" even mean? Is that a sentence that actually says anything? Cool, he resembles a giant hollow soldier and he uses like three moves over and over again because he's ~super hollow~. That doesn't make the fight any more fun. Fun in the "traditional sense" I suppose? If only I wasn't stuck in the hidebound tradition of expecting a fight to not have one incredibly boring correct strategy. Curse my outdated borderline Amish definition of fun! Or maybe Vendrick could have had a more interesting moveset that still sold his devolved mental state. Maaaybe that's still a thing they could have done without detracting from the themes at play.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:38
|
|
|
Opposing Farce posted:But the pyromancy flame is in a chest after you beat the Flexile Sentry? It happens if you light a torch too!
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:42
|
|
|
Okay look, about Vendrick, I think the thing that's missing here is that "fun" is just part of what makes something "good". More fun tends to mean more good, but a fight can be good without being fun - if you're the kind of person who values things other than fun in a boss, and those things are present, like story considerations. It's not wrong to value things differently. To some people, the things other than fun that contribute to the good-ness of the Vendrick aren't valued enough to make the fight feel good. For others, it is. That about right?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:44
|
|
|
 onward into adventure 
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:44
|
|
|
Kaldaris posted:With full HP I can survive a hit. But that's not the point. There's a ton of people that fight him as mages, dex builds, etc, etc. You name it-- and their Defense isn't the greatest either. Being a mage or dex build does not stop you from putting points into vigor and you don't exactly need Havel's to eat a hit and live. On my first run I had 20 vigor and a hodgepodge of armor I thought looked cool and I could take a hit without dying (was left with around a quarter health). And I'm not arguing it isn't dull (because it is), I'm saying it's by no means a no mistake fight. It's really quite forgiving actually because of how slow and unwilling he is to attack. Kaldaris posted:This is just flat out wrong. One of the things I noticed is that almost all of the bosses in this game have a ton of different moves. Though with some of them their AI gets stuck repeating the same one over and over. Freja is a good example, she never stops spamming her laser if you back off more than 5 feet. Vendrick has three moves. Smash, sweep, leap. He can do the first two twice in a row sometimes.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:45
|
|
|
Jordbo posted:Speaking of the Fire Longsword, is anyone else seeing loads of petrified players around that area? Is that a NG+ thing or something? Because none of the enemies there seem to petrify, obviously. edit: im dum and misread things. There's nothing in NG+ there that petrifies, so I think it's just a scenery thing. TGLT fucked around with this message at 21:48 on May 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:46
|
|
|
Opposing Farce posted:But the pyromancy flame is in a chest after you beat the Flexile Sentry? it happens when you light a torch too edit: beaten but yeah
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:46
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:This all reads to me like poo poo you made up/rationalized after the fact to justify things to yourself, to me. Because you want to like it and with gamers that is usually enough to justify anything.  What the gently caress are you babbling about?I don't have to force myself to like anything and doing that doesn't make any sense. There are plenty of things I like about this game, and plenty that I hate. Vendrick isn't one of the things I hate because its a very well done scene. I specifically mentioned Ancient Dragon being an absolutely vile piece of game design right after so its not like I'm pretending DS 2 is perfect. quote:The hell does "fun in the traditional sense" even mean? Is that a sentence that actually says anything? Cool, he resembles a giant hollow soldier and he uses like three moves over and over again because he's ~super hollow~. That doesn't make the fight any more fun. Fun in the "traditional sense" I suppose? If only I wasn't stuck in the hidebound tradition of expecting a fight to not have one incredibly boring correct strategy. Curse my outdated borderline Amish definition of fun! Yes it does, and if you stopped to read all the posts about this you'd realize what I'm talking about. Its not a fun fight mechanically because Vendrick is just an oversized trash mob. However, the story surrounding the fight makes it a very memorable experience. So while its not a fun fight mechanically, its still enjoyable because of the experience. Now if you don't give a drat about the story and just care about the gameplay then yeah its a lovely fight, but its also a completely optional one. Manatee Cannon posted:Vendrick has three moves. Smash, sweep, leap. He can do the first two twice in a row sometimes. I was not talking about Vendrick, obviously.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:46
|
|
|
I've killed vendrick with 3 souls without hugging his leg, his attacks are amazingly easy to dodge through and that fight was the only time I've seen him use a ranged attack and what I thought looked like a grab that didn't hit me. It's pretty funny when someone uses the uber strat without ever trying to legit fight something then complain how it's a terrible fight. No loving kidding it's bad, you are using a strat that completely neuters him. It certainly isn't the most fun fight in the game but I really loved the atmosphere of it and fighting him legit is pretty awesome as you really gotta be on your game. As mentioned though, there is really no excuse for the ancient dragon, it takes all the things people complain about on Vendrick and boosts them into overdrive and without the story feels to go along with it.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:46
|
|
|
The only way to make strong magic shield last longer is the lingering dragoncrest ring right? 30 seconds isn't a lot of time, and another 15% on that isn't that great either. Though I guess now that I'm pumping faith even higher in ng+ I could just use great magic barrier.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:47
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:your just stuck in a mentality where gameplay has to always be fun in the traditional sense. Most "fun" part of the game was exploring the intratextuality of the left buttcheek motif in Dark Souls 2 imo. Lotta posters itt are pretty bourgeois though, might not get it.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:47
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:Yes it does, and if you stopped to read all the posts about this you'd realize what I'm talking about. Its not a fun fight mechanically because Vendrick is just an oversized trash mob. However, the story surrounding the fight makes it a very memorable experience. So while its not a fun fight mechanically, its still enjoyable because of the experience. Now if you don't give a drat about the story and just care about the gameplay then yeah its a lovely fight, but its also a completely optional one. So we're back to claiming the mutual exclusivity of fun gameplay and good storytelling. Smashing.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:50
|
|
|
Captain Oblivious posted:So we're back to claiming the mutual exclusivity of fun gameplay and good storytelling. Smashing. No, but you're intentionally missing the point so I'm just going to stop arguing with you. People have written tons of words about this over the past few pages, everything you said gets answered by them. If you actually care then go read them. Tokyo Sex Whale posted:Most "fun" part of the game was exploring the intratextuality of the left buttcheek motif in Dark Souls 2 imo. Lotta posters itt are pretty bourgeois though, might not get it. Yeah it sure would be silly if I said that. Good thing I didn't. VVV No really, if you actually care and aren't arguing for the sake of it, go read the last few pages. Because everything you're saying has already been addressed. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 21:59 on May 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:52
|
|
|
Internet Kraken posted:No, but you're intentionally missing the point so I'm just going to stop arguing with you. People have written tons of words about this over the past few pages, everything you said gets answered by them. If you actually care then go read them. I will put more points in END so I can chase those shifting goalposts in the future.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:55
|
|
|
Vendrick's fight has roughly the same story as Gwyns, except Gwyn wasn't the laziest designed boss fight possible.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:57
|
|
|
I decided to play DS2 again and wanted to give myself a challenge. I ended up going with a punchyfist run and its the most fun I've had so far. Also, the power stance for fist weapons is awesome.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:59
|
|
|
I really liked the moment of meeting Vendrick but they could've made the fight fun too and had it be just as meaningful v v
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:59
|
|
|
breadcat posted:Vendrick's fight has roughly the same story as Gwyns, except Gwyn wasn't the laziest designed boss fight possible. Gwyn was actually worse because you could just stand still, wait for him to walk over and then parry him over and over until he died. False King could be killed with Poison Cloud and if you were in soul form and wore the ring that made you harder to see you could just stand on the stairs and spam poison over and over until he fell over without ever having the fight start for real. Old King Doran was the same. Nashandra and Vendrick are incredibly easy but at least FROM learned one lesson from the old games: don't give people a way to not fight your loving end/optional bosses and still win. Those older bosses were way more fun to fight straight up but you didn't have to if you were feeling lazy/scared.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:03
|
|
|
Cardboard Box posted:it took me forever to figure out why I was suddenly exploding in No Man's Wharf the first time through. For me it was "what are these vikings throwing at me? I'd better light my torch so I can s-  "
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:03
|
|
|
Fun fact, you can roll into the water to immediately clean yourself off of that tar.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:04
|
|
|
Nalesh posted:That loving jump to the manikins with claws will be the end of me. I had problems with this all last night. Make sure you plunge attack right when you're over the platform so you won't roll off it.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:07
|
|
|
I could take 2 hits from Vendrick. Guess you guys are pussies.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:07
|
|
|
Luisfe posted:Honestly, I really like how they contrast the giants in defeat and Vendrick in victory. Not really. What's going on is that the Giants are so angry in defeat that they cannot rest in peace. Contrast this to the giant who gives you the Seed: he rests in peace, and you inexplicably cannot access his memory. Only sheer hate has permanence apparently.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:11
|
|
|
While fighting the post-Smelter Pursuer I saw him use an attack I hadn't seen before, a rapier-esque thrust combo. It seems like a lot of the 'boring' bosses have really rare attacks that probably should've come out much more often.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:15
|
|
|
I enjoy the debates in this thread, the dependence on angry sarcasm is a valuable addition to game critique that adds lot of entertainment value, thank you all for giving me many hearty laughs
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:17
|
|
|
PublicOpinion posted:While fighting the post-Smelter Pursuer I saw him use an attack I hadn't seen before, a rapier-esque thrust combo. It seems like a lot of the 'boring' bosses have really rare attacks that probably should've come out much more often. Kind of like the Belfry Gargoyles lightning attack that I never would have known existed, much less believe existed, if it wasn't corroborated on wikis? Similarly, the Tseldora area has a surprise on NG+ that really should have been in NG. It's way more atmospheric and interesting with the NG+ gimmick  Said gimmick is that Freja doesn't wait until the boss room to say hi 
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:23
|
|
|
Is it me or is the Iron Keep bridge the laggiest area in the game? I don't have nearly as much trouble in the belfries or arenas.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:25
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:Is it me or is the Iron Keep bridge the laggiest area in the game? I don't have nearly as much trouble in the belfries or arenas. for me it's the opposite, I tend to get much more low latency matchups there than I do at the Belfries and especially the arenas.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:29
|
|
|
Vendrick is a bad boss fight. Hope this helps
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:35
|
|
|
Nalesh posted:That loving jump to the manikins with claws will be the end of me. On the brightside, by the time you get both claws you will be an old pro at it. I had much more success jumping from the platform with the black mushroom on it, as opposed to from the top level if that makes any difference for you.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:38
|
|
|
If you just roll onto that platform instead of jumping its a lot easier to make it.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:40
|
|
|
I seem to have run into the bug which causes Cale to not show up in the basement of the mansion in Majula. The various wikis say burning an ascetic and re-killing the skeletons might make him show up, but it hasn't worked after three of them. Am I just screwed out of Navlaan's stuff?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:44
|
|
|
Gaggins posted:Please try it and tell me how it goes, I've got a char in the same situation and wondered the same thing. Actually since I just flipped my game into NG+ it's going to be a while before I get MacDuff off his lazy rear end, which is why I was asking. If I make it there before anyone else comes up with an answer I'll let you know!
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:48
|
|
|
turtlecrunch posted:Weird Corpse Committee checking in with our Monday report:          And my favorite: 
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:50
|
|
|
The hell is the deal with Blue Flame and its infusions? Why do Bleed and Poison give more damage while Magic gives less?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:52
|
|
|
Cryohazard posted:The hell is the deal with Blue Flame and its infusions? Why do Bleed and Poison give more damage while Magic gives less? Some weapons just have really strange effects on infusion. Also, Magic buffs the hell out of its magic scaling, and if the Blue Flame is like some others, the benefit from increased scaling should more than offset the lower base. It's so that investing highly in the stat means the specialized infusions are more effective than simply going +10/+5.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 06:59 |
|
|
Cryohazard posted:The hell is the deal with Blue Flame and its infusions? Why do Bleed and Poison give more damage while Magic gives less?  ?I got nothin'.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 22:56
|
|