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computer parts posted:By "Law enforcement" you mean the Secret Service. I was also talking about Plumhoff v Rickard which involved the cops shooting up a car in a chase, so yes I was using it as a blanket term to cover both groups. SS is law enforcement, they are part of DHS as of 2003 and have always been responsible for counter fitting and major fraud investigations
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May 27, 2014 16:59
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Fried Chicken posted:Oh, and the AP is reporting Obama is close to sending in military advisors to train the Syrian rebels. You mean all over Africa and in half the Middle East? Yeah, it worked out pretty decently, all things considered, other than the part where we tend to support horrible shitheads. It's certainly less invasive than darkening the skies a la Libya, and that went fantastically on most every count. I mean, it's still better pro-Assad propaganda material than I'm entirely comfortable with, but it's a cheap way to bleed more resources from people we've decided are the opposition. (As much as I'd like to see an understanding with Iran.)
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May 27, 2014 17:07
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My foreign wife sent me a message today from her business trip in Europe to ask about Obama's divorce, so let's not let that bullshit Enquirer story slide completely under the wire since apparently it has global reach, heh.
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May 27, 2014 17:18
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This actually came up in my office the other day - has the US ever gone nation-building overseas and not have it be a flop? The last time I could come up with was rebuilding Japan/Germany, and that seems only questionably being the US's doing.
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May 27, 2014 17:19
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Tempest_56 posted:This actually came up in my office the other day - has the US ever gone nation-building overseas and not have it be a flop? The last time I could come up with was rebuilding Japan/Germany, and that seems only questionably being the US's doing. Define nation building.
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May 27, 2014 17:20
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GreyjoyBastard posted:You mean all over Africa and in half the Middle East? Yeah, it worked out pretty decently, all things considered, other than the part where we tend to support horrible shitheads.
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May 27, 2014 17:20
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Tempest_56 posted:This actually came up in my office the other day - has the US ever gone nation-building overseas and not have it be a flop? The last time I could come up with was rebuilding Japan/Germany, and that seems only questionably being the US's doing. Marshall plan Though even then poo poo like Gladio undercut it
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May 27, 2014 17:22
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computer parts posted:Define nation building. Any of the roughly ten thousand attempts we've had to 'go in and bring democracy' in the last sixty years that seem to have inevitably left the nation behind 2-10 years later as a ruined shell that's little better than we arrived, if not worse off. Hell, I have a hard time thinking of a nation we've intervened with period since WWII (and even for most of the time before that) that has actually come out the other side improved.
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May 27, 2014 17:25
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Fried Chicken posted:"Guilty and Charged" was the broadcast, the column had a longer name. It was about how trying to make up revenues from top bracket tax cuts and the mentality of treating defendants as "consumers" had resulted in a massive shift downward of justice system expenses to a massive amount of fees that the poor often can't pay. So then they get tossed in prison even though debtors prisons are technically illegal I heard that broadcast and thought about posting either here or in the prison thread about it, but frankly I couldn't think of any comment to add to it that wasn't just a stream of frustrated profanities.
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May 27, 2014 17:29
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Fried Chicken posted:I was also talking about Plumhoff v Rickard which involved the cops shooting up a car in a chase, so yes I was using it as a blanket term to cover both groups. SS is law enforcement, they are part of DHS as of 2003 and have always been responsible for counter fitting and major fraud investigations Shooting up a car in a chase after the driver struck three occupied police cruisers during a 100+ MPH chase and attempted to start fleeing again. It's a textbook application of Scott v. Harris even if qualified immunity didn't warrant dismissing the case altogether, and really does nothing to change established law or police procedures.
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May 27, 2014 17:32
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Tempest_56 posted:Any of the roughly ten thousand attempts we've had to 'go in and bring democracy' in the last sixty years that seem to have inevitably left the nation behind 2-10 years later as a ruined shell that's little better than we arrived, if not worse off. Korea maybe?
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May 27, 2014 17:34
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Is there a D&D thread discussing the misogyny shooting and the horrible internet response to it?
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May 27, 2014 17:35
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zoux posted:Is there a D&D thread discussing the misogyny shooting and the horrible internet response to it? Dittohead thread has been talking about it for about a dozen pages.
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May 27, 2014 17:36
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zoux posted:Is there a D&D thread discussing the misogyny shooting and the horrible internet response to it? Does there need to be?
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May 27, 2014 17:37
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computer parts posted:Define nation building. Thinking about it, this, plus you need to define failure and set a timeframe. I mean you could argue that the westward expansion was nation building (invade territory claimed by another nation, install your own government, you didn't specify the people previously living there had a say in how things are done) or the reconstruction (if you don't specify time frame - by the 70s the south was about on par with the north by all metrics, just more overt about their racial animosity than the north) or our actions across the Middle East (it may be terrible to live there but they do what we want, so is that success?) If you are talking "lives up to the ideals America is ostensibly founded upon with a high standard of living" then we don't even match up, much less anyone we nation built
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May 27, 2014 17:38
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Nevermind, nothing needs to be. A better question is should there be?
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May 27, 2014 17:38
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Dunno I just like making fun of clueless MRA dudes and reading other people doing the same.
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May 27, 2014 17:40
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Tempest_56 posted:Any of the roughly ten thousand attempts we've had to 'go in and bring democracy' in the last sixty years that seem to have inevitably left the nation behind 2-10 years later as a ruined shell that's little better than we arrived, if not worse off. Do you have a timeframe cap and requirement of direct manipulation? Because if not you have all the "South East Tigers" taking off in the late 70s and 80s. We have no idea why all of a sudden they took off after decades of us mucking with them and nothing happening though
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May 27, 2014 17:41
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zoux posted:Is there a D&D thread discussing the misogyny shooting and the horrible internet response to it? I didn't see one, which was surprising. There are a few comments in the right wing media thread but nothing dedicated to it
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May 27, 2014 17:42
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iamnotcreative posted:Speaking of poo poo shows that should never have started: What I'm reading is that the military provided the list and the White House's mistake was not catching the station chief's inclusion on it before distribution. And the linked article there says that the WH press office doesn't edit these things, so I dunno, someone along the line probably should have caught it, but calling it a WH leak seems slightly inaccurate.
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May 27, 2014 17:47
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Thanks, Obama 
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May 27, 2014 17:48
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Fried Chicken posted:I didn't see one, which was surprising. There are a few comments in the right wing media thread but nothing dedicated to it Well there's really not much to discuss, everyone agrees mental health issues need to be addressed and gun chat goes no where. The GBS thread is currently exploring just how pathetic this guy was. Holy poo poo was he so pathetic it'd be hilarious if 7+ people weren't dead because of this MRA psychopath
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May 27, 2014 17:55
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There was also the "Conservative Reformers" releasing a book detailing a vision of the GOP platform (a vision completely at odds with their voting and legislative record this session) and a blowup over Financial times claiming Piketty falsifying data and a pretty quick response pointing out that the FT data almost matches his and it is an issue of interpretation not making it up and a few other things I didn't really catch
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May 27, 2014 18:00
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Fried Chicken posted:Aye there's the rub. Our support of horrible shitheads has been triggering blowback for decades. And in this particular one the other side is backed by some serious resources and know how instead of the usual groups There was a... CBS reporter I think? guy on Washington Journal this morning who was discussing Obama's foreign policy track record and mentioned/whitewashed our support for "autocratic leaders" and making the argument that "at least they keep order!" literally seconds after mentioning how our foreign policy still focuses on promoting democracy and that hasn't changed between Bush and Obama. Which seems to be a more-and-more common sentiment with regards to Syria and especially Egypt now. "Well, yes we try to bring democracy to the world, but yes we supported Mubarak, but you know you can't have a one-policy-fits-all approach and look at what happens when our supported despots get dethroned!" I think there's a bit of a difference between "diversifying your foreign policies per country" and "acting incredibly hypocritically with democracy rah rah! for some nations and despots for others." You could maybe make the argument for autocratic regimes and supporting them to promote/maintain order but to do that in the same breath as "democracy for all rah rah!" is just... 
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May 27, 2014 18:05
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Amergin posted:You could maybe make the argument for autocratic regimes and supporting them to promote/maintain order but to do that in the same breath as "democracy for all rah rah!" is just... Basically everyone over a certain age can only think about our foreign policy in first Cold War terms. We are the innocent champions of democracy in an existential struggle with
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May 27, 2014 18:17
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Fried Chicken posted:Do you have a timeframe cap and requirement of direct manipulation? Because if not you have all the "South East Tigers" taking off in the late 70s and 80s. We have no idea why all of a sudden they took off after decades of us mucking with them and nothing happening though The original discussion was more vague, but for the sake of here? I'd say any time between the end of WWII and now (there's no denying that the post-war rebuilding of Europe and Japan was successful). Direct manipulation is... I'd say a qualified no, simply because a lot of the US's manipulation during the Cold War was/still is classified or obfuscated. We may never know entirely just who the US was funding during those days. The original discussion was bouncing off greater involvement in Syria and that the US stepping into other nation's business has never worked out well for the nations involved.
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May 27, 2014 18:22
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Good Citizen posted:Korea maybe? That'd only be half credit at most.
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May 27, 2014 18:27
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So I can't find an online summary of the VA scandal that isn't from Fox or similar. Any help? Everyone keeps talking about it, and I know the VA has been sucking, but I can't find a discussion of what specific thing came up to ignite this scandal...
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May 27, 2014 18:57
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Knockknees posted:So I can't find an online summary of the VA scandal that isn't from Fox or similar. Any help? Everyone keeps talking about it, and I know the VA has been sucking, but I can't find a discussion of what specific thing came up to ignite this scandal... http://www.vox.com/2014/5/22/5739714/the-va-scandal-explained
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May 27, 2014 19:02
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E: ^^ Wow, Vox is good poo poo ^^Knockknees posted:So I can't find an online summary of the VA scandal that isn't from Fox or similar. Any help? Everyone keeps talking about it, and I know the VA has been sucking, but I can't find a discussion of what specific thing came up to ignite this scandal... Some of the hospitals were keeping secret waiting lists to make their turnaround time look more reasonable: http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/30/health/veterans-dying-health-care-delays/ That's nearly a month old now. The big  is that some people on the secret list died, so maybe they died because they didn't get care in time http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/23/health/veterans-dying-health-care-delays/ That's over a month old.And they keep finding out about other locations with secret waiting lists, so the chances that someone has died due to lack of prompt medical care are going up. Here's a good podcast that includes a discussion of the scandal if you want to listen instead of reading. Munkeymon fucked around with this message at 19:11 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 19:07
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Thanks, these are good and helpful.
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May 27, 2014 19:49
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Fried Chicken posted:a blowup over Financial times claiming Piketty falsifying data and a pretty quick response pointing out that the FT data almost matches his and it is an issue of interpretation not making it up and a few other things I didn't really catch Yeah, this struck me almost immediately as more of a "muddying the waters" type of thing.
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May 27, 2014 19:55
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Well there's really not much to discuss, everyone agrees mental health issues need to be addressed and gun chat goes no where. The GBS thread is currently exploring just how pathetic this guy was. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3638025
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May 27, 2014 19:58
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Good Citizen posted:Korea maybe? We left South Korea a militarized shithole for a longgg time after the Korean War. It wasn't really until the late 60's and 70's that the South Korean government (which at that point was a US supported dictatorship) shifted their economic focus to heavy industries, which created a huge influx of economic capital that allowed the country to modernize. They took that momentum, used it to build up and support a lot of state-owned conglomerates like Samsung, shifted industrial focus to electronics and that propelled them even further forward. Basically South Korea did all the good poo poo themselves and we can really only take credit for the bad stuff, like people getting disappeared and tortured by secret police, huge swathes of the population being on the edge of starvation and/or malnutrition, and rampant political corruption.
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May 27, 2014 20:25
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Fried Chicken posted:Aye there's the rub. Our support of horrible shitheads has been triggering blowback for decades. And in this particular one the other side is backed by some serious resources and know how instead of the usual groups My point was basically that the problem's not the means (plonking advisors and hardware in support), it's the ends. In the case of Syria, I suspect that it would take some effort to find a rebel group palatable to us that's worse than Assad, although I really shouldn't underestimate our intelligence agencies on that count, especially if we do continue to funnel most of our logistical support through Saudi Arabia and Totally People Who Aren't The UAE.
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May 27, 2014 20:26
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Jackson Taus posted:Yeah, this struck me almost immediately as more of a "muddying the waters" type of thing. Oh yeah. You even had writers at AEI and National Review state on twitter that this criticism was overblown and didn't really challenge Piketty's core points. But the point seemed to be "well now it isn't so clear, just the the Rogoff study". It is the same approach taken to Climate Change to toss out research and muddy the issue
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May 27, 2014 20:37
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Rap Record Hoarder posted:We left South Korea a militarized shithole for a longgg time after the Korean War. It wasn't really until the late 60's and 70's that the South Korean government (which at that point was a US supported dictatorship) shifted their economic focus to heavy industries, which created a huge influx of economic capital that allowed the country to modernize. They took that momentum, used it to build up and support a lot of state-owned conglomerates like Samsung, shifted industrial focus to electronics and that propelled them even further forward. Well it wasn't a perfect example but it was the closest thing to a success I could think of, considering the limitations. And as bad as it is or was, it would almost assuredly be part of North Korea without us. And that would be maybe a little worse.
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May 27, 2014 20:54
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The US track record with former French colonies isn't great. Vietnam, Lebanon, the Dominican Republican, Haiti. I suppose Djibouti worked out for the US, since it's basically a drone airstrip now and the recent mission to Mali wasn't a total disaster, though I'm not sure much of anything was achieved. Now we can add Syria to the list!
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May 27, 2014 21:23
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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/joe-the-plumber-wurzelbacher-ucsb-shooting-dead-kidsquote:Wurzelbacher added that he has a responsibility as a "father, husband and a man" to protect his family. Addressing Martinez directly, Wurzelbacher wrote that "anyone calling for more restrictions on American’s rights need to back off and stop playing into the hands of the folks who merely capitalize on these horrific events for their own political ends." Wow, what an insensitive prick. I can't imagine what the right wing media machine is saying.
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May 27, 2014 21:48
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Cimber posted:http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/joe-the-plumber-wurzelbacher-ucsb-shooting-dead-kids Why the hell is this guy still in the news? Who gives a poo poo about this guy!?
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May 27, 2014 21:50
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