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Rent-A-Cop posted:Reminder that one of those hyper-local citizen patrols "dealt with" Trayvon Martin. computer parts posted:I wouldn't say that's inherently true, or else you wouldn't get these hyper balkanized communities like Ferguson et all.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 06:53 |
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# ? May 29, 2024 17:34 |
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Omi-Polari posted:That's a good point. But would increasing police-citizen interaction make those interactions better? I'm not so sure. The basic existence for Shomrim (at least in Israel) seems to be to prevent miscegenation so I don't know if that's the best example.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 06:56 |
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Omi-Polari posted:It's basically hyper-local "cops" who people can call to deal with stuff. If the local militia (or volunteer patrol, or whatever you want to call them) think the situation needs the formal police, then they can call them. They'd get informal training from the police. They'd have them on speed dial. It's not rocket science. Soooo when you called the number you got vigilantes? Or what? I mean let's say you needed the whistle and the number. What then?
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 06:57 |
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Yeah but those countries aren't America, and America has yet to find a problem it can't solve with union busting and militias. It is great though, here we are discussing union busting and militias as solutions to police abuse.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 07:01 |
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Vahakyla posted:Soooo when you called the number you got vigilantes? http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Castro-Community-to-Beef-Up-Neighborhood-Patrols-After-San-Francisco-Pride-Attacks-266361661.html The main thing is presence and just keeping up appearances. The other thing is there's reluctance in the gay community to report crimes directly to the police for various reasons. You don't want to risk being re-victimized, or your report not being taken seriously. This is definitely on the soft-end of community policing. Shomrim up in New York gets a little more "handsy" from what I'm reading. Reminds me of this: http://www.theonion.com/articles/fox-defends-airing-of-when-jews-attack,907/ Although I've read about gay vigilantes back in the 1970s who'd use chains to whip gay bashers. Before my time and a bit antiquated now. But the basic lesson is that if you're a minority in America, you can't expect the police forces to protect you to the same extent it does other people. They might not take what happened to you seriously. Worse, they might pose a danger to you. That isn't the way it should be. It's just the way it is. Vahakyla posted:It is great though, here we are discussing union busting and militias as solutions to police abuse. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Jan 6, 2015 |
# ? Jan 6, 2015 07:18 |
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Shbobdb posted:By forming a group dedicated to upholding justice and self-defense? Also, provide free school lunches. The Followers of the Apocalypse?
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 07:24 |
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Omi-Polari posted:The main thing is presence and just keeping up appearances. The other thing is there's reluctance in the gay community to report crimes directly to the police for various reasons. You don't want to risk being re-victimized, or your report not being taken seriously. This is definitely on the soft-end of community policing. Shomrim up in New York gets a little more "handsy" from what I'm reading. I was thinking about this idea. I'm skeptical of state-based community patrols, or patrols that are otherwise tied closely to police departments -- they'd probably just end up echoing the problems a community has with the real police. But I did think that unarmed, ground-up community organizations might be a helpful thing to have, and one of my reasons for thinking so was that people who are rightfully hesitant to go to the police might be more willing to go to a group that is made up of, and beholden to, the local community. They could be a police alternative for things like property crimes and conflict resolution. I don't know that it would work, but I think in some places it could.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 07:38 |
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Sharkie posted:I was thinking about this idea. I'm skeptical of state-based community patrols, or patrols that are otherwise tied closely to police departments -- they'd probably just end up echoing the problems a community has with the real police. But I did think that unarmed, ground-up community organizations might be a helpful thing to have, and one of my reasons for thinking so was that people who are rightfully hesitant to go to the police might be more willing to go to a group that is made up of, and beholden to, the local community. They could be a police alternative for things like property crimes and conflict resolution. I don't know that it would work, but I think in some places it could. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEKhgBye5K0 But there might also be some advantages. Okay the Jewish vigilantes are pricks. Are they bigger pricks than the cops? But really I'm just being contrarian and throwing an idea out there and running with it. And I get to be to the left of D&D for once. Black militias in Ferguson!
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 07:51 |
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Militias are pretty right, I'd say.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 08:02 |
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Vahakyla posted:Militias are pretty right, I'd say. Eh, it depends on what they're militant about and their actions. Black panthers, for instance.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 08:03 |
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Yeah, the perfect solution for an unaccountable-in-practice police force is an unaccountable-even-in-theory private militia
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 08:07 |
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Sharkie posted:Eh, it depends on what they're militant about and their actions. Black panthers, for instance. ^ I don't know if that last image has anything to do with one of these, but it came up in Google so might as well Gum posted:Yeah, the perfect solution for an unaccountable-in-practice police force is an unaccountable-even-in-theory private militia Gum posted:Yeah, the perfect solution for an unaccountable-in-practice police force is an unaccountable-even-in-theory private militia BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Jan 6, 2015 |
# ? Jan 6, 2015 08:19 |
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SedanChair posted:The Followers of the Apocalypse? Right idea, wrong superhero:
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 08:42 |
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The issue with police unions is that the police officers seem to view racist policies as necessary for them to stay safe on the job. They're not unique in this, and a large number of politicians and a substantial portion of the public seem to support them. Unions asking for safer conditions tend to want things like better equipment, support, or rest that only have the potential to hurt their employers profits. The NYPD want to maintain their ability to kill people with impunity, which often hurts the very people they're supposed to be protecting. Scrapping police unions won't actually solve any of the hosed up societal issues that cause them to be lovely. However, supporting them simply because they're a union is also misguided. If 100 years ago Pinkerton detectives organized to demand higher wages, and then returned to strike breaking afterwards I don't think we (or at least the left) would remember them any more fondly.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 08:47 |
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That's basically it. Unions are good. Cops are bad. Cop unions aren't bad because they are unions, they are bad because they are cops.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 09:31 |
Omi-Polari posted:
There's also an SF chapter of the Guardian Angels. I've seen them a few times over the years, but it's not like they're out there that often. And on the topic of law enforcement in SF...does any other city have something similar to the SF Patrol Special Police? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Patrol_Special_Police quote:San Francisco Patrol Special Police is a neighborhood police force authorized in San Francisco's City Charter but not part of the San Francisco Police Department. Rather they are unsworn officers, private citizens, appointed and regulated by the San Francisco Police Commission after an initial security review by the San Francisco Police Department. They are assigned, or purchase, a specific area, or beat and charge private clients hourly rates for a variety of services.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 10:32 |
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Shbobdb posted:That's basically it. Unions are good. Cops are bad. Cop unions aren't bad because they are unions, they are bad because they are cops. But likewise cops don't get away with corruptions because unions any more than they get away with murder because defense attorneys. They get away with both because we as a society are pretty much cool with it, and not union busting or department reform or retraining or any of this poo poo will make up for the fact that citizens do not have the courage and motivation to call officers to account.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 11:26 |
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Rah! posted:There's also an SF chapter of the Guardian Angels. I've seen them a few times over the years, but it's not like they're out there that often. That's an odd one. It sounds like they're doing private security? In a lot of cities off-duty cops will do that sort of work with government permission. They're armed though.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 14:59 |
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Since my choice is basically zero unions, with a very weak teacher's union and an insanely strong police union, or no unions, I choose no unions. The instant a single police union in the entire nation does anything in solidarity with another non-police union, I will change my tune.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 15:41 |
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30.5 Days posted:But likewise cops don't get away with corruptions because unions any more than they get away with murder because defense attorneys. They get away with both because we as a society are pretty much cool with it, and not union busting or department reform or retraining or any of this poo poo will make up for the fact that citizens do not have the courage and motivation to call officers to account. So what are "we" supposed to do about it? Write our congressman? Get gassed and harassed in the streets? Vote Green? I'm tired of people blaming me, as a member of society, over something I have no control over. "We" didn't do poo poo, and "we" hate each other.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 15:44 |
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Radbot posted:Since my choice is basically zero unions, with a very weak teacher's union and an insanely strong police union, or no unions, I choose no unions. madison wisconsin budget repair bill protests 2011 Madison PD walked with the protestors and the chief said he wasn't gonna be clearing people out.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 15:52 |
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Have we discussed that the FOP has asked Congress to expand the Hate Crimes Act of 1969 to cover targeted killings of police?
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 16:08 |
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Depends on what you mean by "society". If you mean "the elites in coalition with white racists" then sure. But from where I'm sitting, I wouldn't conflate that coalition with "society".
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 16:24 |
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The Warszawa posted:Have we discussed that the FOP has asked Congress to expand the Hate Crimes Act of 1969 to cover targeted killings of police? That's okay though because it turns out police are totally not racist against blacks, and actually, if anything, are racist against whites. (the research in question)
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 17:06 |
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Modern police actually do tend to treat other unions with kid gloves come protest time, although probably only because their fists are tired from brutalizing and terrorizing other species of activist.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 20:08 |
Xandu posted:That's an odd one. It sounds like they're doing private security? In a lot of cities off-duty cops will do that sort of work with government permission. They're armed though. Yeah it seems like they're some kind of weird cross between police and security guards. These guys are armed too though (they buy their own guns/uniforms/etc), and apparently had the same powers as any other cop until 1994, when the SFPD stripped their ability to give out citations or book arrests on their own (the SFPD seems to have never liked the patrol specials much...maybe mad at the competition for what they see as security jobs that should belong to off duty officers instead?). They also used to have uniforms basically identical to SFPD officers, but several years ago the SFPD required them to switch to different ones. They still look like cops though, just not normal SFPD officers. I see them sometimes, but there aren't too many of them (wikipedia says there were 40 as of 2011). I always thought it was a weird/interesting police/pseudo-police force. Rah! fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Jan 6, 2015 |
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 20:25 |
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Rah! posted:Yeah it seems like they're some kind of weird cross between police and security guards. I know here in MA you're required to hire police details for many things (like the cops you see at events, the organizer is paying to have them there). I'm guessing this is just a special department that only does that, and the regular cops probably also hate them because details is where you make big money on overtime.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 20:39 |
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Jarmak posted:I know here in MA you're required to hire police details for many things (like the cops you see at events, the organizer is paying to have them there). I'm guessing this is just a special department that only does that, and the regular cops probably also hate them because details is where you make big money on overtime. They might do that too, but they also patrol the streets and check in with the SFPD police commander for their area when they go on duty.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 20:45 |
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Trabisnikof posted:They might do that too, but they also patrol the streets and check in with the SFPD police commander for their area when they go on duty. Oh, I must have misunderstood then, that is weird
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 20:46 |
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I think you'll find this movie explains everything you need to know about the patrol specials.
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# ? Jan 6, 2015 21:55 |
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Cop shoots himself in the stomach fiddling around with his gun like a dumbass.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 06:44 |
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It's simply amazing how retarded people can be with firearms.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 07:21 |
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Did he even know that woman or was he just showing off to some random person in the elevator?
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 08:05 |
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SedanChair posted:Did he even know that woman or was he just showing off to some random person in the elevator?
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 08:07 |
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Rent-A-Cop posted:That was his wife. They were at a shopping mall in Cincinnati IIRC. His body language right before the shot is just...perfect.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 08:11 |
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Rah! posted:Yeah it seems like they're some kind of weird cross between police and security guards. Given the low numbers, I wouln't be surprised if it was the SF version of reserve deputies; a way for the people who know the right people to get a badge for the purpose of exercising privileges given to Law Enforcement Officers.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 09:06 |
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I think I have a quick-fix low cost solution to all this business of police reform. Just rename "police" to "militia". Also get rid of that "protect and serve" slogan. You don't need to do anything else because the rest is already in place and people can adopt the proper mindsets.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 09:09 |
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Just another reminder that police guns really should be in a locked compartment in their patrol cars.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 14:41 |
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Vahakyla posted:Soooo when you called the number you got vigilantes? Say what you want, but if we had Gay Batman on speed dial, the world would truly be a better place.
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 16:49 |
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# ? May 29, 2024 17:34 |
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:Just another reminder that police guns really should be in a locked compartment in their patrol cars. Wait, I thought this was a reminder that patrol officers should be disarmed completely
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# ? Jan 7, 2015 16:56 |