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Ocrassus posted:Lex talionis is a really dumb thing to subscribe to if your end goal is to reduce the net suffering of humanity. It A - Is not nearly as efficient as more rehabilitative methods at preventing offence and reoffence, B - Causes suffering for its own sake rather than to be of instrumental value (which is what I basically describe as pure evil) and C - Brutalises society to the point where we become accustomed to anger and revenge being an adequate response to a crime rather than an appeal to a rational sense of justice. 
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Feb 12, 2015 19:30
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Ocrassus posted:Lex talionis is a really dumb thing to subscribe to if your end goal is to reduce the net suffering of humanity. It A - Is not nearly as efficient as more rehabilitative methods at preventing offence and reoffence, B - Causes suffering for its own sake rather than to be of instrumental value (which is what I basically describe as pure evil) and C - Brutalises society to the point where we become accustomed to anger and revenge being an adequate response to a crime rather than an appeal to a rational sense of justice. All humanity deserves to suffer, and making people's lives better is a lovely goal.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:32
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CommieGIR posted:Hell must be an awesome place if everyone is going there. Haha... yeah. good reasoning
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Feb 12, 2015 19:33
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TwoQuestions posted:All humanity deserves to suffer, and making people's lives better is a lovely goal. I didn't realise we had a representitive of the cult of sithrak on the boards.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:34
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Kyrie eleison posted:Haha... yeah. good reasoning well I guess it would be better if you weren't there
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Feb 12, 2015 19:35
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TwoQuestions posted:No. Everyone deserves Hell, nobody has ever earned less than an eternity of torture. Well I'm glad you can type and see your computer screen with all that mascara on.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:39
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GreyPowerVan posted:well I guess it would be better if you weren't there Everybody wins
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Feb 12, 2015 19:39
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We're caught in the cosmic paradox that hell is wherever kyrie is, but because we're unbelievers we're all going there.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:43
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"Hell is other people." - Jean luc Picard
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Feb 12, 2015 19:45
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Kyrie eleison posted:"Hell is other people." - Jean luc Picard Hell is full divine wrath, more than even the most sadistic person or group of people can devise, and there has never been anyone who didn't deserve it.
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Feb 12, 2015 19:52
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TwoQuestions posted:Hell is full divine wrath, more than even the most sadistic person or group of people can devise, and there has never been anyone who didn't deserve it. Hell yeah bro 
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Feb 12, 2015 19:58
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Kyrie eleison posted:Yeah, that's a good point, since some people should be treated fundamentally differently than others. Again, "Smell ya later, Cornelius."
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Feb 12, 2015 22:06
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Pththya-lyi posted:Again, "Smell ya later, Cornelius." Shocking that despite the absurdity of the statement and the context (in which I am the one being differentiated), two of you believed it was sincere. Just more of the masterful reading comprehension i expect from D&D
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Feb 12, 2015 22:41
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Kyrie eleison posted:Finally someone in this thread has sense
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Feb 12, 2015 22:48
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Nessus posted:Oh, you're a Prod now eh Where do you get this stuff. It is totally the Catholic view that everyone deserves Hell. We literally condemn people before they are born via original sin. The only exceptions to this rule are Mary the mother of God via the Immaculate Conception and her perfectly sinless life, and of course JC himself who was born of a sinless woman and the Father and thereby himself had no original sin and of course never sinned. It is only because of God's mercy in that he listens to our prayers and our worship and our apologies and our gratitude and our promises to try to stop sinning and our willingness to go through with the rituals He has ordained such as baptism, confession and the Eucharist that we have the possibility of not being condemned.
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Feb 12, 2015 23:10
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Popery is mighty wicked.
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Feb 12, 2015 23:23
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When God weights our sins, His angel Maat places our heart on one side of the scales of justice, and anime on the other. Only if the heart comes out unburdened by the deviancy of anime (and therefore lighter than it) can we hope to reach salvation.
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Feb 12, 2015 23:28
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Kyrie eleison posted:Where do you get this stuff. It is totally the Catholic view that everyone deserves Hell. We literally condemn people before they are born via original sin. I'd think that kind of attitude would actually make the prospect of ceasing to exist less tormenting mentally, really.
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Feb 12, 2015 23:34
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Nessus posted:So it would be a completely orthodox view that everyone is going to Hell, no exceptions? Aside for the two exceptions I mentioned, it is a possibility, but not a certainty. Although the Church does not claim to otherwise know who individually goes to Heaven or Hell, it is generally assumed that all of those marked Saints are in Heaven, and we pray for the souls of all sinners regardless of their religious affiliation or the severity of their evil deeds. The true (actual, real) teaching on salvation, not the bogus one that some hippie came up with while stoned, the unassailable one that has been dogmatically defined in ancient times and is the only acceptable position to be held by someone going around calling himself Catholic, or Christian for that matter, is that people who die in their sin go to Hell, and those who repent can be saved. quote:I'd think that kind of attitude would actually make the prospect of ceasing to exist less tormenting mentally, really. Accepting one's death and disappearance is certainly a relatively comfortable way to live, as all you need to do is drink yourself to death, wasting away the hours with complete indifference, as nothing will change the outcome that is death, and in the end the only sensible position is to end your life painlessly via suicide. You're right that by comparison religion is much more mentally taxing and it actually pressures you heavily to become a better person and takes self-destruction off the table.
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Feb 12, 2015 23:47
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Kyrie eleison posted:You're right that by comparison religion is much more mentally taxing and it actually pressures you heavily to become a better person and takes self-destruction off the table.  Right, because everyone not sharing your theology is a self-destructive sadist.
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Feb 12, 2015 23:49
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CommieGIR posted:
They would be, if they thought through their ideology fully and didn't just have lingering sentiments from childhood which slowly get worn away by the years. It certainly encourages that sort of mentality at every turn.
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Feb 12, 2015 23:51
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It's your duty to treat everybody with the same degree of love and respect regardless of your inconsequential opinions on their afterlife. Stroking it to the tune of their flesh sizzling in the pits of hell. Treating them with judgment and disdain on your mind is unchristian.
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Feb 12, 2015 23:52
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steinrokkan posted:It's your duty to treat everybody with the same degree of love and respect regardless of your inconsequential opinions on their afterlife. Stroking it to the tune of their flesh sizzling in the pits of hell. Treating them with judgment and disdain on your mind is unchristian. I am called to post on comedy internet politics forums only in the hopes that you might be saved.
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Feb 12, 2015 23:54
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Kyrie eleison posted:Accepting one's death and disappearance is certainly a relatively comfortable way to live, as all you need to do is drink yourself to death, wasting away the hours with complete indifference, as nothing will change the outcome that is death, and in the end the only sensible position is to end your life painlessly via suicide. I mean seriously. I expect you to bust out the blood libel (possibly on Muslims instead of Jews) or something here, considering the astonishing skill and alacrity in which you take a point ("Boy, your religious arguments sure have a self defeating element") and immediately twist it hard into some arbitrary direction that seems to follow a script you got fed ("Indeed, because the only possible reaction to not being a devout Catholic with a firm belief in Heaven and Hell as constituted by that religion would be to be a violent drunkard who commits suicide"). I guess to be fair, "the script" here might well just be "the catechism." Nessus fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 23:55
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Kyrie eleison posted:I am called to post on comedy internet politics forums only in the hopes that you might be saved. Come for the anime arguments, stay for the soul searching.
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Feb 12, 2015 23:57
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Kyrie eleison posted:I am called to post on comedy internet politics forums only in the hopes that you might be saved. Ah, the popular "I don't have to defend myself this is a ****cOmEdY_fOrUm****" argument.
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Feb 13, 2015 00:01
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Kyrie eleison posted:Aside for the two exceptions I mentioned, it is a possibility, but not a certainty. Do you really think you can escape justice with some bullshit magic words? Why do you insist it's possible to escape your just reward by groveling sufficiently? Humans are sin incarnate, by being not-god all we do is sinful. Every breath and action we take falls short of God's glory, from giving a man food to killing him slowly is equally sinful. There is no salvation, no escape. You will die and go to Hell regardless of what you do, same as everyone else.
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Feb 13, 2015 00:06
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TwoQuestions posted:You will die and go to Hell regardless of what you do, same as everyone else. Hey, can I get a new copy of the Watchtower? I burned my last one.
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Feb 13, 2015 00:06
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TwoQuestions posted:Do you really think you can escape justice with some bullshit magic words? Why do you insist it's possible to escape your just reward by groveling sufficiently? Humans are sin incarnate, by being not-god all we do is sinful. Every breath and action we take falls short of God's glory, from giving a man food to killing him slowly is equally sinful.
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Feb 13, 2015 00:07
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Nessus posted:Is your lovely-rear end argumentation meant to be a metatextual proof of the inherent depravity of man, or did you just take a class in projection? What is the difference between projection and awareness of the universally fallen nature of man? Anyhow, the actual definition of psychological projection requires denying that you have these traits yourself, which I do not. I embrace and confess them. steinrokkan posted:Ah, the popular "I don't have to defend myself this is a ****cOmEdY_fOrUm****" argument. I was being serious. The archangel Michael came to me in a dream and commanded me to crush the serpent and illuminate the dark places.
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Feb 13, 2015 00:09
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TwoQuestions posted:Do you really think you can escape justice with some bullshit magic words? Why do you insist it's possible to escape your just reward by groveling sufficiently? Humans are sin incarnate, by being not-god all we do is sinful. Every breath and action we take falls short of God's glory, from giving a man food to killing him slowly is equally sinful. Guy, your previous posting in D&D was quote:The malicious are too numerous to simply dismiss. Most Americans just want to see everyone suffer, justified or not. Better 100 innocent people be executed than a single shoplifter go unpunished. Are you an anti-kyrie troll, or are you suffering from brain damage?
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Feb 13, 2015 00:09
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Kyrie eleison posted:I was being serious. The archangel Michael came to me in a dream and commanded me to crush the serpent and illuminate the dark places. I'm calling the Humane Society.
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Feb 13, 2015 00:09
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Kyrie eleison posted:What is the difference between projection and awareness of the universally fallen nature of man? Anyhow, the actual definition of psychological projection requires denying that you have these traits yourself, which I do not. I embrace and confess them. Is shitposting a venial sin if you're just a bad poster, but mortal if you could have posted better, but chose not to? What are Jehovy's feelings on shock gifs?
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Feb 13, 2015 00:11
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Kyrie eleison posted:I was being serious. The archangel Michael came to me in a dream and commanded me to crush the serpent and illuminate the dark places. I already answer to Lord Akhenaten, the true disciple of the brilliant sun disc who unites the two horizons of Amun-Ra's kingdom.
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Feb 13, 2015 00:12
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steinrokkan posted:Guy, your previous posting in D&D was I can buy that we were all created by some great deity and we messed things up earning eternal damnation for our entire species, but having a son and sacrificing him seemingly randomly thereby allowing us to escape justice? I don't buy that. Either we're subject to justice or we're not. Either that or there is no God and us and us alone are responsible for our actions, but I doubt Kyrie can be convinced of that, so I'll accept his premises as much as I can while ITT. Besides, universal hatred and damnation seems to explain the thoughts and behavior of religious extremists anyway.
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Feb 13, 2015 00:23
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Refusing to accept the significance of CHrist's sacrifice is kind of like refusing Christianity as a whole so I don't think you are meeting kyrie halfway in the way you are thinking.
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Feb 13, 2015 00:27
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TwoQuestions posted:Do you really think you can escape justice with some bullshit magic words? Why do you insist it's possible to escape your just reward by groveling sufficiently? Humans are sin incarnate, by being not-god all we do is sinful. Every breath and action we take falls short of God's glory, from giving a man food to killing him slowly is equally sinful. Not according to the bro. Nessus posted:I bet high-attaining Buddhists are REALLY ANNOYING in Hell. Lol, imagine the guy next to you trying to be totally chill and at peace and like talking about "impermanence" and detachment while you're in eternal flame. Nessus posted:Where on the ol' Sin Hierarchy does "uses allegedly sole route to Heaven primarily as a tool for giggles against the unbelieving hellbound?" Relative to "assessing an income tax for poor relief" and "shitposting," let's say. My boy Gilby wrote that angels fly because they take themselves lightly. Nowhere does it say that the evangelist should avoid giggling up his sleeve. Au contraire, we're told to avoid preaching too seriously by Papa Frank. God has a sense of humor, I'm pretty sure that's why he started this whole enterprise. The funny thing about venial and mortal is you're never quite sure which it is, so if you're wise you'll err on the side of confessing your sh-tposts. TwoQuestions posted:I can buy that we were all created by some great deity and we messed things up earning eternal damnation for our entire species, but having a son and sacrificing him seemingly randomly thereby allowing us to escape justice? I don't buy that. Either we're subject to justice or we're not. Well we use the "Son of God" language but it's really that God incarnated himself as a human being, preached the truth and then we killed him.
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Feb 13, 2015 01:47
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Hey Kyrie go ahead and go back to your old style. We'll never let you forget it anyway.
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Feb 13, 2015 01:51
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Kyrie eleison posted:
This is important.
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Feb 13, 2015 01:51
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We are as God made us, so he only has himself to blame.
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Feb 13, 2015 01:55
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