California Politics: Madame Senator, this is a morgue

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VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

nm posted:

Then why does it say this:

quote:
They chanted: �No justice, no peace. (Expletive) the police.�

Or are millennial protesters just terrible at protesting?

The leftist groups on campus have had a lot of tension with law enforcement in recent years and this is probably a relic of that. As for general #BlackLivesMatter stuff: the protesters have been pointing out that there is a racial element to the tuition hikes, because they make it harder for poor minorities to attend school and minority enrollment had dropped significantly as a result. I would have trouble drawing a direct line from that to #BackLivesMatter, but that's where they are coming from.

nm posted:

The whole thing is a shitfest between an administration that won't cut its bloated self, and the tax payers who won't pay enough to fund a truly world-class system. I hate to go all truth is in the middle, but it is mostly true here, though I blame the tax payers more as even with reduced admin, the UC will be underfunded, particularly if it will use tenure track people like they should. The students are stuck in the middle.
California voters do oppose the tuition increases. However, the alternatives for funding are cutting classes, teaching staff, and admitting few instate students in favor of out-of-states, which they also supported in the same poll as the alternative to increases.

The UC budget problem is a lot more complicated than "the taxpayers don't want to pay for it". In addition to what Pervis and Sydin have said, here are a few more big problems:

The UCs haven't been paying into pension funds for years and its all coming due now.
The state has dropped a ton of funding from the UCs, while simultaneously giving the UCs access to private Wall Street funding (which requires indefinite growth, which leads to a whole load of problems).
A lot of the Prop 30 money that was supposed to go to the UCs has been channeled into prisons instead.

I actually suspect that funding the UCs is pretty popular with the taxpayers. It's just not popular with the state government, nor with the regents (many of whom directly make money off student loans via their Wall Street ties).

Bizarro Watt posted:

That also relates to my relative annoyance with the grad student union in general.

It's a little unclear from your posts whether you still go to UCSC, but if you do I would recommend getting involved with the Grad Student Union now. A bunch of the leadership just graduated, so there are very few people running the show and even a few dissenting voices can make a huge difference in the direction of the union.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 00:05

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# ? May 10, 2024 17:00

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

nm posted:

Ucsb was established in 65, before most of the UCB protests.

You meant UCSC?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berkeley_riots_%281960s%29

quote:

Since before World War II, students had demonstrated at the university. In the 1930s, the students at Berkeley led massive demonstrations protesting the United States ending its disarmament policy and the approaching war. Throughout the course of World War II, these demonstrations continued with the addition of strikes against fascism; however, they were largely symbolic in form. This can be inferred as the student groups leading these demonstrations did not necessarily seek, nor did they expect their demonstrations to result in change. Nevertheless, this passive approach to demonstration changed in the 1950s at the height of the McCarthy era. From 1949 to 1950, students and teaching assistants at UC Berkeley rallied against the anti-communist loyalty oath that professors were forced to take at the university. Up until the Berkeley riots, these demonstrations were the largest student protests witnessed in the United States.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 02:08

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

VikingofRock posted:

I actually suspect that funding the UCs is pretty popular with the taxpayers. It's just not popular with the state government, nor with the regents (many of whom directly make money off student loans via their Wall Street ties).

As well as getting rich off of private college investment scams.

http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/...ed-by-a-regent.

quote:

A year ago, Richard C. Blum, then the chairman of the regents of the University of California, spoke at the Milken Institute�s Global Conference 2009, held at the Beverly Hilton in Los Angeles. The corporate confab was hosted by Michael Milken, the �junk bond king� who went to prison in the aftermath of the savings and loan fiasco in the 1980s. Milken, who is barred from securities trading for life by federal regulators, has since recreated himself as a proponent of investing in for-profit educational corporations, an industry which regularly comes under government and media scrutiny in response to allegations of fraud made by dis-satisfied students.

At the conference, Blum, who is a professionalWall Street speculator, sat on a panel called �The New University and Its Role in the Economy,� alongside the presidents of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Arizona State University. The panel focused on how universities can best serve the corporate jones for tech-savvy employees by recruiting smart freshmen with scientific talent. One panel member urged treating universities as �laboratories of business ideas and products.�

As someone who oversees investment policy decisions for the University of California�s $63 billion portfolio, and as the largest shareholder in two for-profit corporate-run universities (in which UC invests), Blum had a unique perspective to share at the conference. He advised public universities to attract business-oriented students with clever advertisements (as vocational schools do).

�It�s like anything else,� he said. �It�s how you market it.�

Marketing strategy aside, Blum has taken on two seemingly disparate roles � one as an advocate for a nonprofit university, and the other as an owner of two for-profit educational corporations. However, as a regent, Blum has taken actions that (intentionally or not) have enhanced the value of his vocational schools. Are his loyalties conflicted?

For several years, Blum�s firm, Blum Capital Partners, has been the dominant shareholder in two of the nation�s largest for-profit universities, Career Education Corporation and ITT Educational Services, Inc. The San Francisco-based firm�s combined holdings in the two chain schools is currently $923 million � nearly a billion dollars. As Blum�s ownership stake enlarged, UC investment managers shadowed him, ultimately investing $53 million of public funds into the two educational corporations.

...

Disaster capitalism

Due to serial tuition hikes by the UC regents, and their gutting of many classes and educational programs, and the imposition of a 15 percent reduction of in-state admissions to the university, the gateway to higher learning in California has seriously narrowed. As a UC regent, Blum voted in favor of all of these measures � and such actions have indirectly benefited his corporate colleges.

...

Blum�s investment bank entered the for-profit education business in 1987, when he purchased a large block of shares in National Education Corporation, an Irvine-based vocational school that specialized in awarding mail-order diplomas. He joined the company�s board of directors, sitting alongside former U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater and David C. Jones, a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Two years later, according to a report in the Los Angeles Times, Blum got in hot water when angry shareholders filed a lawsuit contending that �the company issued rosy financial statements while Blum and other directors were selling their shares.� The shareholders claimed in court documents that Blum sold $2.7 million worth of shares at about $24 per share after he learned, a day before the public announcement, that the company president planned to resign. When the share price bottomed out at $3.50 a share after the announcement, Blum reinvested in the troubled company, booking a profit.

By the late �80s and early �90s, National Education Corporation was �battered by accusations that its vocational schools were riddled with fraud,� The New York Times reported in March 1997. A new president was hired in 1994 to reform the school and to bring it into the age of computerized learning. By 1995, Blum had gained control of 11.5 percent of National Education Corporation stock after combining his firm�s holdings with that of a nonprofit investment fund, Commonfund, for which Blum worked as an investment advisor. (Commonfund manages investments for more than 1,400 universities, including UC.) In 1997, Harcourt, the textbook publisher, boughtNational Education Corporation for about $750 million, or $21 a share. Blum and his private partners profited handsomely � there was money to be made in education.

After he became a regent in 2002, Blum greatly increased his investment in for-profit education. In June 2005, Blum Capital Partners bought 5 percent of the stock (worth $24 million) in Lincoln Education Services Corp., a $300 million operation with 32 campuses. Blum also acquired large blocks of shares in ITT Educational Services, and Career Education Corporation. These two purchases followed dips in the companies� stock prices brought about by allegations of corrupt practices made against them by government agencies.

In the case of ITT Educational Services, federal and state regulators investigated the company in 2004 after shareholders and students alleged that it was falsifying student attendance, grades and job placement records in order to keep federal financial aid flowing. When the news broke, the price of ITT shares halved.

Blum Capital Partners pounced, purchasing reams of devalued ITT stock. It soon owned the largest block of stock in the company � a 10 percent ownership stake in 2006. Not long afterwards, the investigations were closed, with no findings of wrongdoing. By May 2010, ITT�s revenue exceeded $1.3 billion, and Blum Capital Partners� stake was valued at $415 million.

Similarly, Blum Capital Partners bought shares of Career Education Corporation, a $1.8 billion operation that serves 90,000 students, following a corruption controversy. In 2004, Career Education Corporation was investigated by multiple federal agencies after whistleblower lawsuits alleged that the school had allowed failing students to remain enrolled in order to keep its pipeline to federal grants and loans tapped. In 2005, after �60 Minutes� televised an unfavorable story about the chain school, the value of its stock dropped by more than half. Blum Capital Partners bought in for $33 million. By May 2010, its stake had grown to $508 million, making Blum�s firm by far the largest and most powerful shareholder of the chain school. A partner with Blum Capital Partners, Greg L. Jackson, sits on the board of Career Education Corporation.

UC is an investor in both educational corporations.

...

Even as Blum was buying stock in Career Education and ITT Educational Services, UC financial records show that the university�s investment managers were actively buying and selling these same stocks � to the tune of $53 million. The university was not just holding onto these stocks to accrue value over time (as a prudent manager would do), it was day trading them in large amounts, as much as $2 million a trade, thereby affecting the daily price of these stocks. And these two companies were largely owned by a regent, a Wall Street speculator who sat on the university�s investment committee, which oversaw the management of the university�s stock portfolio. Does not this situation pose at least the appearance of a conflict?

Not to UC officials. When UC Treasurer Marie Berggren was questioned about the propriety of UC investing in Blum�s for-profit college chains her spokesman, Steve Montiel, replied by email, �The Treasurer�s Office doesn�t track Regents� holdings in making decisions about security selections, though Regents� holdings are disclosed as a matter of policy.�

In other words, the treasurer does not review the regents� financial disclosure statements, which are public records, for potential conflicts.

...

# ? Mar 5, 2015 02:14

krnhotwings: May 7, 2009; Grimey Drawer

Is anybody aware of the UCPath project? It's supposed to be a centralized HR/payroll/benefits app to replace all of the systems used by the individual UCs. I believe the project has been going on since 2010 and is about a quarter billion in the red.

My knowledge of UCPath is patchy at best so some of this may be inaccurate, but from what I've been told:
- UCPath is an Oracle PeopleSoft program. Oracle makes most of their money from PeopleSoft through its add-ons. Apparently, PeopleSoft necessitates the need for add-ons because of features that are lacking in just the base software.
- There's a contract between Oracle and UCPath to use PeopleSoft. UCPath project managers have decided to go with base support and software because the add-ons are too expensive. PeopleSoft, being software designed for the corporate world, also lacks any sort of features to support funding information, which is largely how the UC's payroll system works (because where the money comes from matters; different groups get paid through various funds.)
- AFAIK, UCPath decided to hire 3rd party contractors to program something to hook up PeopleSoft with funding information.
- UCPath has a call center in Riverside where all of the HR/payroll/benefits stuff is supposed to be handled. Individuals within the UCs will no longer be able to enter in employee information into PeopleSoft as they currently do in PPS. IIRC, it has been decided that individuals must use some sort of Salesforce CRM form to enter and record the information; however, it's not known how that information will be entered from Salesforce to the call center to Oracle's PeopleSoft servers in Texas.
- There have been several key project managers that have been hired to "fix" the UCPath project, all of whom have already jumped ship because they realize that this is ship is sinking.
- I think UCPath's project schedule is still based on a targeted September 2015 pilot rollout date for UCOP, which hasn't changed at all even though everybody realizes and knows that UCPath will not be completed in time.
- If I'm not mistaken, UCPath is being funded entirely through loans.

If you want a prime example of sunk cost fallacy, this is it.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 08:26

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005

At UCLA the good news is you don't need a protest to block all traffic flow in Westwood. It once took me more than an hour to get from campus to 405.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 08:35

kurona_bright: Mar 21, 2013

FilthyImp posted:

That's been the story since, like, UCSD? Which is on a hill but a 15 minute march to downtown La Jolla. I remember an SD professor mentioning a grad student immolating himself on the old student quad, and a tense protest march that ended up being a "stand around and hope no one from either side does anything dumb" kind of thing.

Bit tangential, but there's a memorial by the Revelle Plaza fountain now for him. :v:

# ? Mar 5, 2015 08:49

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

kurona_bright posted:

Bit tangential, but there's a memorial by the Revelle Plaza fountain now for him.

No poo poo! I was there two years ago and saw nothing. Guess they peeled $29 off of the repaint of the Sun God to do it.

krnhotwings posted:

If you want a prime example of sunk cost fallacy, this is it.

Sounds a lot like the LAUSD's attempt to modernize their student information system (which ran on DOS and was coded in god knows what in the 80s). For a command line interface it was actually very rich, but you needed to know a bunch of commands (ID51, TR04) to get anything done.

But it only runs on WinXP, as the virtualized environment in 7 is janky. And XP is nearing its end of life, leaving an entire district with its core student database running on potentially unsupported hardware. Ouch.

So in 2009 they hire out a new system ISIS, which is web based. But they didn't allocate any money for bug squashing and support. So they got a half-baked system that didn't work for poo poo that they couldn't fix. Awesome!

Thankfully they learned their lesson and hired internal coders, working with Microsoft on a newer replacement for the replacement called MySIS. Which is also broken (it deleted the ENTIRE master scheduling data for a school two days before the year started. Randomly) but far more functional than the last pile of poo poo they tried to launch.

We're 3/4 of the way into the year and the integrated grade book function is vaporware, college counselors have had to compute GPAs by hand (and certify them to colleges themselves because that didn't work either), and the old superintendent has been fired.

Just hearing about when they upgraded the payroll system in the early 2000s makes me :negative:

# ? Mar 5, 2015 10:15

My Q-Face: Jul 8, 2002; A dumb racist who need to kill themselves

nm posted:

Both of those related to MLK's message. "gently caress the police" doesn't relate to theirs (though, it would relate to MLK's), and in fact, gives certain persons tools to marginalize them.

When the police show up to protests, it's usually to clear them, so gently caress the Police relates to every protest.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 10:22

Megaman's Jockstrap: Jul 16, 2000; What a horrible thread to have a post.

I know in Riverside County their property tax tracking system is still running in DOS. And when my wife worked for CPS their systems were complete shitbox "track your stuff in this Excel sheet and email it to your supervisor weekly" style. Crazy.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 17:36

kaynorr: Dec 31, 2003

krnhotwings posted:

Is anybody aware of the UCPath project? It's supposed to be a centralized HR/payroll/benefits app to replace all of the systems used by the individual UCs. I believe the project has been going on since 2010 and is about a quarter billion in the red.

...

If you want a prime example of sunk cost fallacy, this is it.

It's not so much a sunk cost thing as a reality of how weird higher-ed IT is. Accounting rules there are fundamentally exception-based (for a million goddamn terrible reason), each one being some sort of terrible code hack that a programmer implemented over the years. When you try to replace them with something new you're not just swapping system A for system B, you are simultaneously rewriting every exception hack that has ever existed for the system. At once. Eating something like 30 years of incremental development cost in one terrible meal. Which of course no higher-ed institution has the money for (admin budgets being the first thing to get slashed whenever there is a money crunch) so you basically get to choose between limping along with an existing terrible system and counting on the 5% chance that you've hired a savant ERP developer who is literally the equal of 30 lesser devs.

The system is bizarre because the rules it implements are bizarre, because universities have profoundly hosed-up cost accounting policies.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 17:41

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

FilthyImp posted:

No poo poo! I was there two years ago and saw nothing. Guess they peeled $29 off of the repaint of the Sun God to do it.

Sounds a lot like the LAUSD's attempt to modernize their student information system (which ran on DOS and was coded in god knows what in the 80s). For a command line interface it was actually very rich, but you needed to know a bunch of commands (ID51, TR04) to get anything done.

But it only runs on WinXP, as the virtualized environment in 7 is janky. And XP is nearing its end of life, leaving an entire district with its core student database running on potentially unsupported hardware. Ouch.

So in 2009 they hire out a new system ISIS, which is web based. But they didn't allocate any money for bug squashing and support. So they got a half-baked system that didn't work for poo poo that they couldn't fix. Awesome!

Thankfully they learned their lesson and hired internal coders, working with Microsoft on a newer replacement for the replacement called MySIS. Which is also broken (it deleted the ENTIRE master scheduling data for a school two days before the year started. Randomly) but far more functional than the last pile of poo poo they tried to launch.

We're 3/4 of the way into the year and the integrated grade book function is vaporware, college counselors have had to compute GPAs by hand (and certify them to colleges themselves because that didn't work either), and the old superintendent has been fired.

Just hearing about when they upgraded the payroll system in the early 2000s makes me

That's not even touching on Deasy's involvement in the whole iPad roll out and subsequent revelations of possible sweetheart deals with software vendors. Dude had kind of a lovely run as superintendent.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 18:54

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

If one ever questions whether marxists are right about "capitalism ruins everything", they need only look at California's various educational systems for the past 40 years and sagely fist-bump their local communist.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 19:50

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Zeitgueist posted:

If one ever questions whether marxists are right about "capitalism ruins everything", they need only look at California's various educational systems for the past 40 years and sagely fist-bump their local communist.

That sounds like a lot of effort, I'm just going to blame teachers instead.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 19:53

Shbobdb: Dec 16, 2010; by Reene

I'm going to blame unions.

And then talk about how some populations aren't as good at learning. And that maybe we should have a serious discussion about that as a society

# ? Mar 5, 2015 19:56

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

Trabisnikof posted:

That sounds like a lot of effort, I'm just going to blame teachers instead.

Hey man, they get pensions. Even I don't get a pension! Better cut compensation in order to boost the quality of teaching.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 19:56

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

Hey man, they get pensions. Even I don't get a pension! Better cut compensation in order to boost the quality of teaching.

Good news, the UC has cut back on tenured positions, so they've done that already.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 20:00

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

nm posted:

Good news, the UC has cut back on tenured positions, so they've done that already.

Well problem solved then!

# ? Mar 5, 2015 20:04

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

FMguru posted:

Well problem solved then!

Hell no, did you know they PAY grad students?

# ? Mar 5, 2015 20:10

Bizarro Watt: May 30, 2010; My responsibility is to follow the Scriptures which call upon us to occupy the land until Jesus returns.

nm posted:

Hell no, did you know they PAY grad students?

Oh man, don't even joke about that.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 20:12

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Bizarro Watt posted:

Oh man, don't even joke about that.

Also, professors should be evaluated by how many students graduate that are in their classes, just like in the business world!

# ? Mar 5, 2015 20:13

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

Fun fact: as a TA, I get paid more than the lecturer teaching the class. Also I have much, much better benefits. The difference IMO is that the TAs have a way stronger union.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 20:44

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Trabisnikof posted:

Also, professors should be evaluated by how many students graduate that are in their classes, just like in the business world!

In STEM, they already get evaluated based on how much money they bring. Woe unto you if you don't make more than you cost. Yes, we'll look the other way when you sellout to monsanto if the money is good.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 21:23

Family Values: Jun 26, 2007

nm posted:

The whole thing is a shitfest between an administration that won't cut its bloated self, and the tax payers who won't pay enough to fund a truly world-class system. I hate to go all truth is in the middle, but it is mostly true here, though I blame the tax payers more as even with reduced admin, the UC will be underfunded, particularly if it will use tenure track people like they should. The students are stuck in the middle.
California voters do oppose the tuition increases. However, the alternatives for funding are cutting classes, teaching staff, and admitting few instate students in favor of out-of-states, which they also supported in the same poll as the alternative to increases.

Both of those related to MLK's message. "gently caress the police" doesn't relate to theirs (though, it would relate to MLK's), and in fact, gives certain persons tools to marginalize them.

As one of those tax payers, I think this is unfair. The voters have approved the past several education spending propositions that were put before them (I know prop 30 didn't go toward UC but just generally speaking here).

When you see things like this:

quote:

Data available from the UC Office of the President shows that there were 2.5 faculty members for each senior manager in the UC system in 1993. Now there are as many senior managers as faculty.

it's hard not to think that the system is not being a good steward of the resources it currently has. Do we really need a 1:1 ratio of admin to faculty?

Here are the current numbers: http://legacy-its.ucop.edu/uwnews/stat/

For example at Berkeley in October 2014 there were 5,649 academic full-time equivalents and 8,226 non-academic. What the gently caress?

# ? Mar 5, 2015 22:40

Bizarro Watt: May 30, 2010; My responsibility is to follow the Scriptures which call upon us to occupy the land until Jesus returns.

When I see data like that, it makes me want to go back to when they started adding so many management positions in the first place. If they had the funds for all those FTEs, why did they start focusing so much on that?

# ? Mar 5, 2015 22:49

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Family Values posted:

As one of those tax payers, I think this is unfair. The voters have approved the past several education spending propositions that were put before them (I know prop 30 didn't go toward UC but just generally speaking here).

When you see things like this:

it's hard not to think that the system is not being a good steward of the resources it currently has. Do we really need a 1:1 ratio of admin to faculty?

Here are the current numbers: http://legacy-its.ucop.edu/uwnews/stat/

For example at Berkeley in October 2014 there were 5,649 academic full-time equivalents and 8,226 non-academic. What the gently caress?

It is amazing, I agree. There are at least 4 people doing what a UC Chancellor did in the 80s.
The start of the non-academic employee gap started with the cuts to UC. Lots of people who had real functional jobs, but fancy titles now have to fund raise.
The chancellor, for example, was a real, functional job until the mid80s or so. Now they spend all thier time chasing rich donors. So they need people to do thier actual jobs.
This change then changes who gets hired for the top spots. The person who used to get the spots were academics who both gained respect through their work and showed leadership skills. Now a huge chunk of the equasion is how much money can they bring in. These people are almost always of the "we need to make the university more like a business" and "one cool trick to fix higher education" people. They tend to be used to more managers and want people between them and the unruly academics.

nm fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Mar 5, 2015

# ? Mar 5, 2015 23:01

Mayor Dave: Feb 20, 2009; Bernie the Snow Clown

I guess what we're all trying to say is, gently caress Ronald Reagan

# ? Mar 5, 2015 23:38

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

Mayor Dave posted:

I guess what we're all trying to say is, gently caress Ronald Reagan

They should make this the new state motto.

# ? Mar 5, 2015 23:47

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

^^^^^^^^^
I bet Jerry Brown would sign that.

Mayor Dave posted:

I guess what we're all trying to say is, gently caress Ronald Reagan

Absolutely.
Actually, a great protest would be if the UC students went to his grave and pissed on it.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 00:33

drilldo squirt: Aug 18, 2006; a beautiful, soft meat sack; Clapping Larry

nm posted:

^^^^^^^^^
I bet Jerry Brown would sign that.

Absolutely.
Actually, a great protest would be if the UC students went to his grave and pissed on it.

Those two guys danced on it.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 00:40

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

nm posted:

^^^^^^^^^
I bet Jerry Brown would sign that.

Absolutely.
Actually, a great protest would be if the UC students went to his grave and pissed on it.

Is his grave near a UC? A mass-pissing sounds like a pretty good form of protest to me.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 01:03

Proust Malone: Apr 4, 2008

VikingofRock posted:

Is his grave near a UC? A mass-pissing sounds like a pretty good form of protest to me.

Get on it.

The grave itself is sort of off aways and the wall blocks off view from the main part of the library. I'm surprised more people don't do it.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 01:07

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

Ron Jeremy posted:

Get on it.

The grave itself is sort of off aways and the wall blocks off view from the main part of the library. I'm surprised more people don't do it.

While the grave itself is out in the open-ish, there's tons of security and poo poo around.

Also, huge laughs for it being out in the middle of white-bread country.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 01:44

Jerry Manderbilt: May 31, 2012; No matter how much paperwork I process, it never goes away. It only increases.

I was in Thousand Oaks back in 2008 or so and it was one of the whitest parts of California I've been in, others including places like Mission Viejo and Kensington, and to a lesser extent Los Altos, Pleasanton and San Ramon.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 01:47

Proust Malone: Apr 4, 2008

FilthyImp posted:

While the grave itself is out in the open-ish, there's tons of security and poo poo around.

Also, huge laughs for it being out in the middle of white-bread country.

poo poo, drink enough to have a decent stream and you don't even need to jump the fence.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 01:48

NoEyedSquareGuy: Mar 16, 2009; Just because Liquor's dead, doesn't mean you can just roll this bitch all over town with "The Freedoms."

As someone who lives in Thousand Oaks, it is indeed white as gently caress.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 01:49

Jerry Manderbilt: May 31, 2012; No matter how much paperwork I process, it never goes away. It only increases.

Ron Jeremy posted:

poo poo, drink enough to have a decent stream and you don't even need to jump the fence.

I see "right" in that quote and I think, "The facts and evidence tell me I was wrong, but my heart and best intentions tell me I was right".

# ? Mar 6, 2015 01:53

Gnumonic: Dec 11, 2005; Maybe you thought I was the Packard Goose?

There's a petition to expel the UCSC students who took part in the protest, and the administration is probably going to acquiesce. I kind of have a stake in this -- I taught critical theory to one of the students arrested in the highway closure protest -- but it seems excessive to dole out more punishment on top of a possible felony conviction. (I've never quite understood why schools feel the need to police off-campus student conduct but I'd wager the administration will expel them to save face).

The sentiment around campus, at least among the professors/grad students I interact with on a regular basis, is that the protesters shot themselves in the foot by lumping police brutality and prison reform in with tuition hikes. I got an e-mail from one of the organizers that justified fairly well why the issues are linked (I could post it if anyone's that interested), but the optics of a bunch of students chained to the highway chanting "gently caress the police!" seems to have even the (mostly) protest-friendly community in Santa Cruz confused about what it is the students were protesting in the first place. That's kind of a shame, since I think if the protesters stuck to the tuition hikes they could have had a clear and effective message -- I'd think that the glut of money flowing into administrative position at the expense of actual teaching/research goals for the university would be more effective than some apparently general outrage at all social ills. (To be clear: I don't think police brutality or prison reform are issues that should be ignored, only that the lack of a clear message in this case seemed to undermine the effectiveness of the protests.)

# ? Mar 6, 2015 02:01

CPColin: Sep 9, 2003; Big ol' smile.

Meanwhile, the CSU system cruises along doing ????

# ? Mar 6, 2015 02:04

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

Mayor Dave posted:

I guess what we're all trying to say is, gently caress Ronald Reagan

Yeah basically he was outraged over california having a low cost european style uni system and decided to fix it.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 02:07

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# ? May 10, 2024 17:00

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

CPColin posted:

Meanwhile, the CSU system cruises along doing ????

Nah, it's pretty poo poo too. Major tuition hikes in the last 10 years, difficult time getting classes you need, consideration of cutting "unproductive" majors. It just doesn't get the exposure that the UCs do.

# ? Mar 6, 2015 02:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > California Politics: Madame Senator, this is a morgue

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