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I can't wait to buy some sweet Bernie swag. I'm hoping for a red/white/blue foam hammer and sickle with his campaign logo on it, but I'll settle for a syrup bottle or ice scraper or something.
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Apr 30, 2015 18:43
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Leviathan Song posted:A more radical approach would be to take the beat cops' guns away and put lethal force only in the hands of a small subset of highly trained officers. Call in the kill squad!
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Apr 30, 2015 18:48
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mastervj posted:Poe or humor and wishful thinking
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Apr 30, 2015 19:22
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Dolash posted:I guess we'll see who else declares in the Democratic primary. Were I American, I'd consider campaigning as hard and as to the left of Clinton as possible, just to try and gin up interest in those issues, before voting for her in the general. Yeah, for how psyched everyone is now, I'm actually pretty interested in seeing just how much to the left Bernie can take the Hillary/the party in the primaries because honestly i doubt it'll be very much.
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Apr 30, 2015 19:31
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site posted:Yeah, for how psyched everyone is now, I'm actually pretty interested in seeing just how much to the left Bernie can take the Hillary/the party in the primaries because honestly i doubt it'll be very much. I expect him to campaign heavily but manage to shift the platform only modestly, much as I'd wish it be otherwise.
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Apr 30, 2015 19:32
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Captain_Maclaine posted:I expect him to campaign heavily but manage to shift the platform only modestly, much as I'd wish it be otherwise. I think my problem is that so many topics have been dragged over to the center i don't recognize them as "left" issues anymore to pull them over. Maybe something will come of that.
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Apr 30, 2015 19:37
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Sgt. Anime Pederast posted:Wow, I actually checked out reddit for some reason and they're going loving crazy over Sanders. Absolute chaos. Broke college kids saying they'll donate every penny they can, random bullshit. It's the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Yeah, there are two reasons for that. 1) He is actually that good and actually supports the things they believe than, unlike the other candidates and 2) They don't know or don't care that his chances are next to zero. Personally, I think it's great that young people have someone on the left to get excited about. If you're not at least a little hyped about Bernie you have no heart.
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Apr 30, 2015 19:54
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I do wonder sometimes if Bernie actually has any power to upset Clinton's campaign to the point of snatching it away... Skeptically of course.
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Apr 30, 2015 19:58
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That would be quite the show. Then we could change the name to the Socialist party and really gently caress with the reds.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:06
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Edit:^^^^I'm reminded of Obama's great line at the correspondent's dinner about Bernie running: "Some people want a pot-smoking socialist in the White House - we might get that third Obama term after all!" At most I can see him getting some surprising share of an early primary vote, like 20% to Clinton's 50%, and people starting to at least take him seriously as an actual candidate for the nomination even if they acknowledge he won't win. I wouldn't be surprised if Hillary's practically courting some opponents like Bernie who can't actually win just to give her a bit of a contest, since the primaries can be good for building some hype with the base and it keeps the Republicans from owning the news cycle during their primary. The real race might actually be for second place, since if Bernie beats out a more conservative Democrat that'd encourage incorporating his ideas to win more of the base. I'm also curious what specific issues people would want to see Bernie pull Hillary left on, if he can. Hillary will probably continue a lot of Obama's policies on things like allowing gay marriage and marijuana legalization in the states without really pushing them along federally. Immigration's pretty jammed as an issue aside from what Obama's already done executively (short of easing off on enforcement, I guess). Healthcare was a signature issue for Hillary but Obamacare might be as far as things can go while Congress is obsessed with rolling it back. I guess income inequality would be a big sticking point since the Clintons are associated with thrid-way neoliberalism, privatization and corporatism although I don't know what specific points she could be moved on. Would foreign policy be a contentious point? I can only imagine Hillary'd want to run away from her Iraq vote wherever possible, although with Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, Libya, Yemen and so many other nations in chaos Presidential candidates are going to need a clear vision for what they'll do to fix the situation. Dolash fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 20:10
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Dolash posted:I'm also curious what specific issues people would want to see Bernie pull Hillary left on, if he can. Hillary will probably continue a lot of Obama's policies on things like allowing gay marriage and marijuana legalization in the states without really pushing them along federally. My thought was "like Obama, rhetorically, in campaign only". Let nobody suffer under the delusion that Sanders will succeed in anything but the (incredibly useful, critically important) task of spreading the "word" to the American public. Nothing he does or say will change a hypothetical (*) Clinton presidency from operating exactly like Obama's. (*)Because Bush will win.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:18
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Dolash posted:I'm also curious what specific issues people would want to see Bernie pull Hillary left on, if he can. Hillary will probably continue a lot of Obama's policies on things like allowing gay marriage and marijuana legalization in the states without really pushing them along federally. Immigration's pretty jammed as an issue aside from what Obama's already done executively (short of easing off on enforcement, I guess). Healthcare was a signature issue for Hillary but Obamacare might be as far as things can go while Congress is obsessed with rolling it back. I guess income inequality would be a big sticking point since the Clintons are associated with thrid-way neoliberalism, privatization and corporatism although I don't know what specific points she could be moved on. I suppose I hadn't thought about specifics much. But I guess what I'd hope for is the political dynamic of the race not so much forcing Clinton to commit to specific progressive policy planks, as for it to make it harder for her to do regressive poo poo once she's in office. If she has to make noise about income inequality and all that stuff in the primary because of Bernie, then maybe it'll be a little bit more politically costly for her to cut welfare or roll back Wall Street regulations or whatever awful Clintonite poo poo she might want to do once she's in office. But really, that's more about my fear and pessimism than anything, it's not a real political analysis. I agree that the real value of a Bernie run is in getting the word out and trying to shift the conversation and the internal party dynamics, more than any effect he would have on a Clinton administration
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Apr 30, 2015 20:26
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He could pressure her on the TPA, she hasn't taken a side on it because the base hates it and her Wall Street buddies love it.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:30
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I agree. Bernie knows he's not going to win, but getting to be there for the debates could open up more national dialogue about issues like income inequality. He actually genuinely cares about improving the lives of the American citizenry, and getting his message out there is important. He's the kind of politician there needs to be more of. Biased vt-raised liberal trash here, but I admire the poo poo out of him. He's the only public figure I can point to and say "I am proud of this american politician."
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Apr 30, 2015 20:33
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Question that's not about Bernie: With all the stuff that's going down in Baltimore and in light of things coming up in the news (what David Simon wrote, for example) what if any impact is this likely to have on O'Malley's situation? Particularly since he's been positioning to try and run to Hillary's left. I'm not familiar enough with Maryland to know how much tar he's gonna get hit with before the feathers come out.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:34
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Bernie was functionally a Democrat in every way, he just kept the I for symbolic reasons. The DSCC even followed their policy of trying to stop primary challenges of incumbent Senators with Bernie. american greens make more sense after you realize that they have no intention of being an effective organ of party politics, and are content to serve as a support-group for dysfunctional college youth and the mentally ill PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 20:53
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PupsOfWar posted:american greens make more sense after you realize that they have no intention of being an effective organ of party politics, and are content to serve as a support-group for dysfunctional college youth and the mentally ill I've never seen college youth involved with the Greens. It's always middle-aged people. College is Dem territory, because duh.
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Apr 30, 2015 20:57
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Does anybody take the greens seriously after 2000?
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Apr 30, 2015 21:02
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site posted:Does anybody take the greens seriously after 2000? nobody took the greens seriously in 2000, an election where they got probably more a-pox-upon-both-your-houses protest votes from ultraconservatives than they did genuine votes from leftists or liberals.
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Apr 30, 2015 21:09
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PupsOfWar posted:nobody took the greens seriously in 2000, an election where they got probably more a-pox-upon-both-your-houses protest votes from ultraconservatives than they did genuine votes from leftists or liberals. The Greens got 2.74% of the popular vote that year, more than twice as much as any third party since.
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Apr 30, 2015 21:23
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Green Party of the USA enshrines homeopathy in its platform. It's not just an irrelevant nonsense 3rd party, but an awful irrelevant nonsense 3rd party. Please don't vote green party.
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Apr 30, 2015 21:24
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As much as I love Bernie, wouldn't he end up being an absolutely terrible president? He wouldn't be able to get anything done with Congress, and when things start to fall apart, the Republicans would just blame him rather than their horribleness. I feel like he'd be an amazing dictator, but not such a good president under current conditions.
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Apr 30, 2015 21:24
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Chamale posted:The Greens got 2.74% of the popular vote that year, more than twice as much as any third party since. Taken twice as seriously as the other laughable joke parties!
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Apr 30, 2015 21:24
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Tempest_56 posted:Question that's not about Bernie: With all the stuff that's going down in Baltimore and in light of things coming up in the news (what David Simon wrote, for example) what if any impact is this likely to have on O'Malley's situation? Particularly since he's been positioning to try and run to Hillary's left. I'm not familiar enough with Maryland to know how much tar he's gonna get hit with before the feathers come out. I mean, he will probably still run regardless, I was listening on NPR today and he had been visiting some of the communities in Baltimore that were hardest hit in the riots. But I can't think that this really helps his chances, given that he is literally the basis for Tommy Carcetti from the Wire. The fact that these mass arrests took place under his tenure and somewhat precipitated the climate that led to the unrest there, with it getting national attention, definitely does not help his case. Before all this, his main selling point was that he was the first white mayor elected in Baltimore in a generation, and he could be expected to do well with minority voters. But given the current climate in Baltimore I can't really see him trying to repair his reputation effectively. I have very little knowledge of his record as a governor, but he won't be touting his "Baltimore miracle" in stump speeches anytime soon.
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Apr 30, 2015 21:25
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OneTwentySix posted:As much as I love Bernie, wouldn't he end up being an absolutely terrible president? He wouldn't be able to get anything done with Congress, and when things start to fall apart, the Republicans would just blame him rather than their horribleness. I feel like he'd be an amazing dictator, but not such a good president under current conditions. On the other hand, literally anything he thinks he'd have executive authority to do, with actions or such...he could probably do a serious amount of good. Plus, appointments, he might appoint better people to departments, judgeships, assuming he could get them approved of course.
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Apr 30, 2015 21:27
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OneTwentySix posted:As much as I love Bernie, wouldn't he end up being an absolutely terrible president? He wouldn't be able to get anything done with Congress, and when things start to fall apart, the Republicans would just blame him rather than their horribleness. I feel like he'd be an amazing dictator, but not such a good president under current conditions. Do you really think the republican party would hate him more than they hate Hillary Clinton?
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Apr 30, 2015 21:28
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UberJew posted:Do you really think the republican party would hate him more than they hate Hillary Clinton? No but they aren't getting blatantly anti-semitic against Hillary.
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Apr 30, 2015 21:33
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OneTwentySix posted:As much as I love Bernie, wouldn't he end up being an absolutely terrible president? He wouldn't be able to get anything done with Congress, and when things start to fall apart, the Republicans would just blame him rather than their horribleness. I feel like he'd be an amazing dictator, but not such a good president under current conditions. Packing the courts and administrative agencies is enough for me. It's not like Congress is about to get anything worthwhile done if someone else is elected. The republicans aren't going to vote for anything Hillary wants, either, unless it's a war or trade "deal."
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Apr 30, 2015 21:41
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OneTwentySix posted:As much as I love Bernie, wouldn't he end up being an absolutely terrible president? He wouldn't be able to get anything done with Congress, and when things start to fall apart, the Republicans would just blame him rather than their horribleness. I feel like he'd be an amazing dictator, but not such a good president under current conditions. He has sponsored some major bipartisan legislation before such as this VA reform bill, it's not like he's a liberal version of Ron Paul. http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/senate-passes-veterans-health-care-bill
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Apr 30, 2015 21:41
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Hillary coming out against the TPP; citing Elizabeth Warren as reason to be skeptical of the deal. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/30/hillary-clinton-trans-pacific-partnership_n_7173108.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000013 quote:Hillary Clinton Agrees With Elizabeth Warren On Trade Dispute With Obama
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Apr 30, 2015 21:42
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Hillary coming out against the TPP; citing Elizabeth Warren as reason to be skeptical of the deal. Democratic primary pandering to the left instead of running to the center? 
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Apr 30, 2015 21:44
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 from 23 Bernie Sanders Reactions For Everyday Situations
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Apr 30, 2015 22:07
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 The Onion has weighed in on Bernie's candidacy. My favorite bit (hard to choose, admittedly): quote:Vermont Public Radio Show: Power Of Darkness Bernie Sanders Metal Hour
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Apr 30, 2015 22:08
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The campaign slogan bit is believable.
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Apr 30, 2015 22:10
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I'm tempted to go back through the various Bernie Buzz* emails I get to see if they lifted that bit directly. *This is their actual, official title.
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Apr 30, 2015 22:14
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UberJew posted:Do you really think the republican party would hate him more than they hate Hillary Clinton? Democrats would probably hate him too for many issues.
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Apr 30, 2015 22:27
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Bernie will totally win this, guys.
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Apr 30, 2015 22:52
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Captain_Maclaine posted:
Bernie benches a hell of a lot more than he deadlifts. Lost my vote.
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Apr 30, 2015 23:04
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There is a minor issue with Bernie's candidacy.quote:He could hit an early roadblock in New Hampshire -- not with Hillary Clinton, but William Gardner, who has guarded the state's first-in-the-nation presidential primary for four decades as Secretary of State. He said he isn't sure whether Sanders meets the state's requirement to be on the presidential ballot. And it seems does not surprise me that the last time this came up it was another Vermonter causing trouble. quote:But when reminded that Howard Dean, the former Vermont governor who sought the Democratic presidential nomination in 2004, qualified for the New Hampshire ballot, even though he was also not a registered Democrat, Gardner paused for several moments. He said he would dig out Dean's paperwork from storage and check. I'm also curious as to whether Lincoln Chaffee is a registered Democrat. We know Jeb Bush is a registerd Republican, though he had trouble with other sections of the form.
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Apr 30, 2015 23:08
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Joementum posted:There is a minor issue with Bernie's candidacy. Ah man, the story was just getting good and it ends right there.
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Apr 30, 2015 23:40
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