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spectralent posted:Wait, is the OSR someone's personal IP? I thought OSR was an independent renaissance of people rediscovering old-school games. If it isn't a specific person's product, how can you write an unauthorised entry on it? OSR is a huckster trotting out his wagon full of snake oil, promising that it's an all things to all people style of gaming that rewards imagination and creativity, and then you squint at the label and realize you're being sold the same elf-dorf because Gary bullshit.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 05:08 |
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# ? Jun 9, 2024 07:53 |
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Antivehicular posted:I really like how his "revenge," in addition to being unthinkably petty, is also self-defeating. "Oho, so My Hated Enemy wants to write a history of my RPG movement? I'll deny him any information so he can't write about my contributions! This will prevent my work from being memorialized and also... hurt him... somehow!" It'll specifically hurt by allowing me to continue to call this so-called history an incomplete hackjob because it ignores my important contributions!
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 05:37 |
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And Shannon can't talk to the other contributors some how
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 05:44 |
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starkebn posted:And Shannon can't talk to the other contributors some how Big OSRIC controls all information, obviously.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 05:51 |
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quote:READ AN RPG BOOK IN PUBLIC WEEK Am I just being an elitist jerk or what because this just reads like another expression of nerds' crippling lack of social skills that they have to resort to baiting people to comment on RPG books.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 05:58 |
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*looks longingly at Savant and Sorcerer* Time to bust this mofo out
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 06:06 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:Am I just being an elitist jerk or what because this just reads like another expression of nerds' crippling lack of social skills that they have to resort to baiting people to comment on RPG books. The image of this guy carrying around the loving massive Nobilis hardback to "casually" read on the bus or whatever is pretty hilarious, at least. (Guilty confession time: I once read the World's Largest Dungeon in an airport lounge. In my own defense, I'd just gotten it for Christmas, my flight was delayed, and... uh, really, that doesn't help at all, does it?)
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:10 |
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Eh, there are plenty of things like Knit In Public Day already, this isn't that different. Having it be not just a week long but three weeks over the year reeks of indecisiveness, though.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:13 |
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It seems like if you really wanted to sell people on it, the thing to do would be to play in public. Thinks to the cat piss thread Then again, maybe not.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:18 |
Antivehicular posted:The image of this guy carrying around the loving massive Nobilis hardback to "casually" read on the bus or whatever is pretty hilarious, at least.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:25 |
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quote:It shouldn't come as a tremendous surprise, given that most of the moderation staff at RPG.net is manned by people fairly famous for despising the OSR, including Paul Ettin (who is also a moderator at Something Awful and one of the guiding lights behind their old-school-bashing "grognards.txt" megathread, which is largely dedicated to insulting and planning acts of sabotage on OSR games and writers). You'd still think that this, being an alleged work of historical research, would at least attempt to put on a facade of objectivity; but maybe you couldn't really hope that given that it was published by Fred Hicks, noted Pseudo-activist, supporter of various attempts at censorship and blacklisting in the hobby, and a guy who has a personal commercial interest in downplaying the OSR while trying to hype up the much less significant works of him and his clique of friends. quote:
quote:Having grown up alongside roleplaying games I'm glad to say I don't need Appelcline's happy horseshit. It's a shame those that follow may regard it as a definitive reference work. I weep for the children. quote:I liked Something Awful and didn't know it was connected to Black Hat and Fred Hicks. I won't buy anything from those guys so I guess that bookmarks gonna be burned as well. Very sad. quote:I thought about buying a membership to SA, once upon a time. I have a few friends who are goons, and I like the WTF D&D articles. but then this whole thought police bullshit of theirs started, so now I say gently caress that.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:25 |
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It's unlikely that they are going to convince anyone to join the hobby, but the initiative seems pretty harmless all things considered. They even put a reminder for the more socially maladjusted ones not to disturb other people during their crusade.
paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Jul 23, 2015 |
# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:26 |
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Nessus posted:I've read RPG books in public a bunch of times, especially when travelling. Basically nobody ever gave a gently caress. I think once it was a D&D book and someone recognized the cover. You are not shamefully revealing your stupid hateful hobby that you need to be embarrassed about, I think. (I mean, unless that makes the RPGs more fun in which case yes, sure, totally, everyone's snort-snickering up their sleeves. Shame on you, reading non-pornographic specialist literature in an airport terminal.) Most of my shame has to do with the fact that the WLD is approximately the size and shape (and, uh, playability) of a cinderblock. Why in God's name was I carrying that thing on?
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:28 |
Antivehicular posted:Most of my shame has to do with the fact that the WLD is approximately the size and shape (and, uh, playability) of a cinderblock. Why in God's name was I carrying that thing on?
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:30 |
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Nessus posted:Is it that big? The biggest RPG books I've seen or bought have been.... I guess Vampire 20th (but it was two volumes) and Beyond the Mountains of Madness. 840 pages (and 16 foldout maps) of hardcover fun. e: fun hexwren fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Jul 23, 2015 |
# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:38 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:Is my payola from Fred Hicks convertible to Sorosbucks? From what I can gather, their argument seems to be "If he had an opinion worth listening to, he would already know everything that needs to be known about OSRIC." Nessus posted:Is it that big? The biggest RPG books I've seen or bought have been.... I guess Vampire 20th (but it was two volumes) and Beyond the Mountains of Madness. Here's a copy of Ptolus, compared to other similar books Ptolus is 640 pages. WLD is 1000 pages.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:41 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:
What the gently caress does this even mean?
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:42 |
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gradenko_2000 posted:Is my payola from Fred Hicks convertible to Sorosbucks? I could maybe force myself to feel a pang of understanding for these guys if their heads weren't so far their own rear end that they can clearly see what they've had for lunch.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:43 |
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I unno man I used to bring a hardback RPG book on the bus with me to college like every loving day. It was a long bus ride and it was before smart phones, and I was a tool who did homework at home. I don't think it's weird, I think it's weirder that they need a super special day to read RPG books in public, like on any other day they just can't muster up the courage or they're too oppressed or they'll get in trouble or something. That part alone is pretty strange. If you like RPGs and you read RPG books why would you ever need a special occasion to read them in public unless you a.) don't ever read them or b.) never go out in public?
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:44 |
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Allen Wren posted:What the gently caress does this even mean? These guys are really, really mad at Evil Hat Games (which Fred Hicks runs/is the face of, iirc) because they were involved in lobbying DrivethruRPG to take down an OSR dude's lovely pro-Gamergate card game. Evil Hat also makes FATE and Don't Rest Your Head, which I imagine makes them Storygame Thoughtcriminals, but the big grudge is the lovely card game thing. EDIT: I assume by "Black Hat" he means "Evil Hat." I may be wrong.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:46 |
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That's the book, the stuff to the left of it is all the maps for it. poo poo is ridiculous.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:51 |
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Nessus posted:Is it that big? The biggest RPG books I've seen or bought have been.... I guess Vampire 20th (but it was two volumes) and Beyond the Mountains of Madness. A quick google tells me it's 1000 pages of A4 that's about 5 and a half pounds heavy.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 07:53 |
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Antivehicular posted:These guys are really, really mad at Evil Hat Games (which Fred Hicks runs/is the face of, iirc) because they were involved in lobbying DrivethruRPG to take down an OSR dude's lovely pro-Gamergate card game. Evil Hat also makes FATE and Don't Rest Your Head, which I imagine makes them Storygame Thoughtcriminals, but the big grudge is the lovely card game thing.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 09:26 |
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Mendrian posted:I don't think it's weird, I think it's weirder that they need a super special day to read RPG books in public, like on any other day they just can't muster up the courage or they're too oppressed or they'll get in trouble or something. That part alone is pretty strange. If you like RPGs and you read RPG books why would you ever need a special occasion to read them in public unless you a.) don't ever read them or b.) never go out in public? Yeah I think you hit on why I thought it was a little off-putting. It never even occurred to me that maybe I shouldn't be reading an RPG book in public, apart from practical issues since a full-sized hardcover book isn't the same as whipping out an airport novel.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 09:41 |
gradenko_2000 posted:I think that's pretty much all you'd need to know about it from a high-level perspective, and Appelcline is a better man than I if his writing about the OSR won't just contain "this is a community of whiny idiot manbabies", repeated to a 3000-word article.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 10:11 |
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I once brought a copy of MAID along on a long flight to read while we were boarding, specifically to ensure no one would bother me. It possibly worked; the person who was supposed to sit next to me requested a seat change. Probably can't pull that off these days, now that every flight anywhere is always full. Is it still grog behavior if you're completely aware of how it looks, and just doing it to be selfish? I just wanted the space. AmiYumi fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Jul 23, 2015 |
# ? Jul 23, 2015 10:11 |
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D&D and other nerd games are just some nerdy poo poo, you're not breaking out the scat porn. One person maybe will give you a look because it's dumb nerd poo poo, and that's about as far as it goes. Motherfucking nerds think it's still the 80's and someone's gonna accuse them of being SATANISTS.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 10:56 |
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Antivehicular posted:These guys are really, really mad at Evil Hat Games (which Fred Hicks runs/is the face of, iirc) because they were involved in lobbying DrivethruRPG to take down an OSR dude's lovely pro-Gamergate card game. Evil Hat also makes FATE and Don't Rest Your Head, which I imagine makes them Storygame Thoughtcriminals, but the big grudge is the lovely card game thing. Black Hat Matt, who's involved with Onyx Path.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 11:04 |
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spectralent posted:Black Hat Matt, who's involved with Onyx Path. Right, but other than his work on Demon, I'm not really sure where his viewpoints would be attacking the OSRIC hivemind, particularly in comparison to Jess Harley and Rich Thomas. (That and Beast is basically an old school 90's white wolf adolescent power fantasy cranked up to 11)
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 14:19 |
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Kurieg posted:Right, but other than his work on Demon, I'm not really sure where his viewpoints would be attacking the OSRIC hivemind, particularly in comparison to Jess Harley and Rich Thomas. There's no logic involved here. The crazy-pants idiot brigade basically try and lump everyone they don't like into this pool of people that are all trying to conspire against the beleaguered OSR for daring to tell it how it is.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 14:29 |
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I use airplane flights to write out campaign notes, which usually means I have a book sitting on the tray table in front of me for most of the flight.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 15:16 |
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Kurieg posted:Right, but other than his work on Demon, I'm not really sure where his viewpoints would be attacking the OSRIC hivemind, particularly in comparison to Jess Harley and Rich Thomas. Probably stuff about how White Wolf were the first people to remove the hobby from it's roots, maybe? I dunno.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 16:49 |
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spectralent posted:Probably stuff about how White Wolf were the first people to remove the hobby from it's roots, maybe? I dunno. Plus here's an RPG.net mod, which is the most likely cause of grog rage.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 17:03 |
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Flavivirus posted:Plus here's an RPG.net mod, which is the most likely cause of grog rage. Ahh yeah, I forgot about that. That probably explains it. Still, those guys are all nuts.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 17:14 |
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I'm always amused by OSR choosing to describe itself as a "movement" as if it were something more than just a fundamentalist choice about what rules you use for gnomes. To be a movement - in the sense of a social movement - they'd have to want to change something, but that's precisely what they don't want to do. At best they've gotten more older D&D clones published, but it's not like that wasn't something that's been going on for the past 40 years. To be a movement, there has to be something to struggle against, and it's not like anybody can stop them from exulting in level limits and labyrinthine requirements to play a bard. It's just a means for them to claim false gravitas when it's really just a question of whether or not ascending AC makes you dumber.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 17:44 |
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quote:Have you seen the box for D&D's new starter set? Check it out: quote:Too bad the game is still a soulless mess. quote:I'm not going to say 4e is bad, but I will say it is radically different than the game that once bore that cover. I think using it again now is dishonest and a cheap ploy to sell people something they don't actually want. 4E is *not* classic D&D, and is not even similar. It's literally a different game. This leaves a bad taste in my mouth. quote:I have to admit, I really want to get this for my daughter, although the fact that it's 4e does give me pause. I'll probably do it anyway, but it does make me think "am I going to get her addicted to a bad drug?" quote:The rules still have to be written so normal(ish) humans can enjoy the game. The 4e rules I've seen are obnoxiously formulaic (and I read computer code for fun). quote:Luckily, this new Red Box doesn't come packaged with the entire OSR blogosphere inside of it, so the kids who eagerly open it will, for a brief moment, be left utterly to their own devices to create their own game experience. Then, after an hour or two of paging through the rulebooks in starry-eyed wonder, they can go online and find out how wrong they are.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 17:46 |
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It's kind of hilarious how the ultra-orthodox OSR guys don't realize how badly they're preventing growth of their "movement" as they alienate anyone who isn't perfectly aligned with their politics and beliefs on game design. They don't seem to get that someone might like more than one kind of game, and treat other people enjoying things they don't like as a personal attack. There are plenty of people who, for reasons of nostalgia or just to get the old school experience, would be happy to try out some OSR, but they're so hostile to outsiders, I can't help but think they're driving a certain number of people away. I remember talking to John WIck at a con about whether or not you can have tactical combat and still call it an RPG (he doesn't think so), and he seemed to have a similar problem understanding how other people could enjoy things in ways he didn't, but at least he wasn't hostile. Baffled, but he didn't call them commie fascist pinko swine.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 17:57 |
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I have to admit if it wasn't for the Older D&D thread here I probably would have given the OSR a pass based on their saltiness over 4e, which I liked well before I got into TG pretty much solely on the basis of how mad it made grogs.
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 18:05 |
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I'm always amused by OSR choosing to describe itself as a "movement" as if it were something more than just a fundamentalist choice about what rules you use for gnomes. To be a movement - in the sense of a social movement - they'd have to want to change something, but that's precisely what they don't want to do. At best they've gotten more older D&D clones published, but it's not like that wasn't something that's been going on for the past 40 years. To be a movement, there has to be something to struggle against, and it's not like anybody can stop them from exulting in level limits and labyrinthine requirements to play a bard. It's just a means for them to claim false gravitas when it's really just a question of whether or not ascending AC makes you dumber. Does attempting to reverse an existing change not count as a change? I mean it's still stupid, but it seems to me that a lot of them don't just want their own games to stay the same, they want everyone's games go back to the "good old days".
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 18:19 |
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# ? Jun 9, 2024 07:53 |
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senrath posted:Does attempting to reverse an existing change not count as a change? I mean it's still stupid, but it seems to me that a lot of them don't just want their own games to stay the same, they want everyone's games go back to the "good old days". I suppose being a Reactionary movement is still a movement. "In his pipe, you know he's right"
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# ? Jul 23, 2015 18:22 |