Torrannor posted:

Noooo, who will take the side of the CDU in this thread then?

Cingulate posted:

Millions of people read BILD for information. If you point fingers and laugh at BILD readers, you're deriding millions of people. Now to you, this may not seem inherently bad. To me, it inherently is - bad.

ArchangeI posted:

In all seriousness, once Merkel retires the Union pretty much has to go with von der Leyen because there is literally no one else. And that is kinda terrifying.

Cingulate posted:

See?

Millions of people read BILD for information. If you point fingers and laugh at BILD readers, you're deriding millions of people. Now to you, this may not seem inherently bad. To me, it inherently is - bad.

quote:

I also do very generally think the poor deserve leniency, or rather, the privileged deserve much more scrutiny. There's plenty of stuff to kick up against. Kai Diekmann is much more of a hate-worthy target than literal laid-off former construction workers who kinda semi-secretly don't like arabs (because capitalism requires them to hate arabs or the whole thing would come apart).

Grendels Dad posted:

Thing is justified because millions do it, got it.

Cingulate posted:

How'd you get that from what I wrote? Because that is, clearly, not what I said. The rest of your post is like that, too - you're going out of your way to make as unfair of a representation of what I wrote as you can.

Much like BILD

Grendels Dad posted:

You said it's inherently bad to laugh at people who read BILD for information because there are millions who do that, correct?

Cingulate posted:

Well to be precise I said point and laugh, by which I meant, to do so in public. If you just sit at home and silently gloat, that's still pretty off IMO, but it's different. Otherwise, yes.

Grendels Dad posted:

Well, what does the size of the group have to do with anything?

Cingulate posted:

A rather odd question. Off hand, I can't quite come up with an example where something that is bad doesn't become worse when it becomes multiplied.

Cingulate posted:

Millions of people read BILD for information. If you point fingers and laugh at BILD readers, you're deriding millions of people.

Cingulate posted:

No, we want these because we hope it will improve the lot of the many. So the welfare of the many is always the end goal. Thus, anybody who puts something like journalistic aesthetics over his empathy for the masses is suspect.

Cingulate posted:

A rather odd question. Off hand, I can't quite come up with an example where something that is bad doesn't become worse when it becomes multiplied.

Grendels Dad posted:

Please explain how reading BILD improves poo poo for the masses

Grendels Dad posted:

So you say laughing about people for reading BILD for information is bad because there are many people who read BILD for information, and then fail to explain why that's relevant.

Cingulate posted:

That's a total non sequitur.
Why are you so weirdly confused in your argument, just throwing random stuff at me without sense or reason?
I say insulting millions is bad, because these millions are the ends on which all our means should be measured.

Grendels Dad posted:

I might be confused because you are making increasingly ornamental non-statements about how reading BILD is a justifiable thing.

botany posted:

any time you find yourself laughing at millions of ordinary people you're being an elitist rear end in a top hat.

Schurik posted:

At this point you're either trolling or instantly forgetting the content of the posts you make seconds after posting them.

waitwhatno posted:

I have no idea what your problem is. Here in Munich we have a mass market newspaper(Abendzeitung), that's not populist, doesn't lie or makes poo poo up.

botany posted:

Or you people can't read. Cingulate made a really simple statement - that laughing at the BILD readership is bad because you're laughing at predominantly undereducated working class people who are consciously being misled and manipulated by rich assholes like Diekmann. The people you should be angry at are not the ones who read BILD but the ones who write BILD. That's not really difficult to understand and a classical leftist argument, as is the idea that any time you find yourself laughing at millions of ordinary people you're being an elitist rear end in a top hat.

Boner Slam posted:

You should not be LAUGHING at people, especially not millions, especially if they are less priviledged wrt eduction.

Boner Slam posted:

Dude, in Südbayern the Haupschüler take their shoes off before entering the classroom and they do Graffiti with CHALK. I am not even kidding.

botany posted:

Or you people can't read. Cingulate made a really simple statement - that laughing at the BILD readership is bad because you're laughing at predominantly undereducated working class people who are consciously being misled and manipulated by rich assholes like Diekmann. The people you should be angry at are not the ones who read BILD but the ones who write BILD. That's not really difficult to understand and a classical leftist argument, as is the idea that any time you find yourself laughing at millions of ordinary people you're being an elitist rear end in a top hat.

Cingulate posted:

I also have this persistent bias where I assume everyone is like me - middle class background, well educated - a position from which it'd be elitist assholery. Of course there are people, even in this thread, who have a very different background and for whom my whole line of reasoning would be inapplicable.
The problem is you somehow mentally translate precise statements I make into statements that are not entirely unlike what I actually wrote. E.g. going from "you laughing at underprivileged masses from a position of privilege is distasteful" to "generally, everything done by a group which also includes poor people is correct".

blowfish posted:

Gymnasiasten or went to university

blowfish posted:

I don't have a problem with laughing at idiots who may or may not be poorer than you as long as you support a better education/better social support/whatever. Terrible people can get called out no matter why they are terrible, at the same time as recognising that we should help make people less terrible.

niethan posted:

whole lot of stupid people in those two institutions

Cingulate posted:

This in some way strikes me as even more tasteless - I laugh at you for being unlike me while hoping that you will become like me.

Okay I guess to some my position will feel condescending - by being indefinitely apologetic for group X, I am not taking them serious as adult individuals.

This is, I claim, no easy environment to maneuver in. But what is certainly wrong is gloating at the many from a position of privilege.

blowfish posted:

Yeah, but it's not "lol dumb poors" but "lol idiots who wasted their education".


When choosing between mocking people and not mocking people, I'm always pro-mocking.

ArchangeI posted:

Mocking people who have no control over what they are being mocked for is wrong. Thankfully, no one is forced to read BILD.

Boner Slam posted:

Dude, in Südbayern the Haupschüler take their shoes off before entering the classroom and they do Graffiti with CHALK. I am not even kidding.
You just don't have anything like the problems the people reading Bild in NRW have. Trust me, I have lived in both places. poo poo ain't comparable.

blowfish posted:

Yeah, but it's not "lol dumb poors" but "lol idiots who wasted their education".

ArchangeI posted:

Mocking people who have no control over what they are being mocked for is wrong. Thankfully, no one is forced to read BILD.

blowfish posted:

Well yeah mocking disabled people is not the same as mocking BILD readers. Though on the other hand, the latter might be classed as a mental disability

Cingulate posted:

Always mock up, never mock down.

niethan posted:

Cingulate posted:

Nobody is free to do anything. There is no free will.

waitwhatno posted:

Not in the cities, they don't. In the city graffiti is made from the finest car paint and shoes are worn at all times. And what
does that have to do with anything? Bild made up a story about EMT's having to wear bodyarmor at refugee camps because they get stabbed and shot there all the time. Is the making-up of news stories somehow fundamental to their business model?