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midnightclimax posted:Is that bad? Because I agree with her. Unless they start working on policies, all that remains is a Tumblr hashtag fad. Um. That's what lip service is for.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:24
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midnightclimax posted:Is that bad? Because I agree with her. Unless they start working on policies, all that remains is a Tumblr hashtag fad. Um. The point of BLM is to bring attention and force to the issue of discrimination and the oft wanton murder of black people by police with impunity. A politician's job is to take that awareness and craft legislation in the hopes of solving it. "Hey sorry you guys don't have law degrees or the money to write our legislation for us like lobbyists usually do" is how it comes off.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:26
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Who needs South Carolina anywayquote:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/08/politics/rick-perry-south-carolina-headquarters-closed/index.html
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Sep 9, 2015 15:31
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I liked this moment that seemed like accidental honesty... Stephen: "How many of us when we get excited about things just go 'Jeb!'" Jeb: "Well in Florida they do, when they see me. Most of them. Either out of happiness or uh, deep anger."
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Sep 9, 2015 15:32
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Hodgepodge posted:If there's one thing that could have made this really kill her, it would be trying to clamp down on it. Also, you have a really short memory or something when it comes to the Republicans going after Clintons. Getting republicans to shut up about it would be impossible I agree but my point was now this is something that is in the public consciousness including Hillary's fumbling response to it at the beginning. An apology and handing over the server at the get go would have reduced whatever damage the whole "scandal" has caused to her image.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:32
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Neeksy posted:The point of BLM is to bring attention and force to the issue of discrimination and the oft wanton murder of black people by police with impunity. A politician's job is to take that awareness and craft legislation in the hopes of solving it. "Hey sorry you guys don't have law degrees or the money to write our legislation for us like lobbyists usually do" is how it comes off. Not really. "What policy changes would you like made" is a politician accepting your input into the policy process. The whole problem with lobbying is industry groups capturing this process. It's only "bad" in this context if you are totally clueless- which you are.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:33
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Feather posted:She literally told them to come up with policies and get back to her. That's literally what happened. It's not an exaggeration. Yeah how dare that cold, heartless, robotic  focus on policy changes that a legislature can deliver, instead of... ?Bitch.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:35
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Getting republicans to shut up about it would be impossible I agree but my point was now this is something that is in the public consciousness including Hillary's fumbling response to it at the beginning. An apology and handing over the server at the get go would have reduced whatever damage the whole "scandal" has caused to her image. That's the opposite of clamping down on it, though. Also it wouldn't really have changed anything in this case, because the people making noise about this are only looking for excuses to make noise and would have found plenty no matter what.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:35
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The Donald would like all the profits from the CNN interview to go to veteran causes and has written a letter to Jeff Zucker requesting just that.  The thing is a work of art, but my favourite line would have to be 'While I refuse to brag'.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:39
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richardfun posted:The Donald would like all the profits from the CNN interview to go to veteran causes and has written a letter to Jeff Zucker requesting just that. I just came here to post this. This is a thing of beauty. I can't decide if my personal favorite part is "this tremendous increase in viewer interest and advertising is due 100% to 'Donald J. Trump'" with his name in quotes or "In fact, NBC renewed The Apprentice, even though I told them not to because I was running for President (something which did not exactly endear them to me)."
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Sep 9, 2015 15:41
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Feather posted:She literally told them to come up with policies and get back to her. That's literally what happened. It's not an exaggeration. "I want to help, what concrete thing can I do?" isn't telling them to solve their own problems.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:45
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Joementum posted:Bqhatevwr. Wow, standing next to Scott Brown is really not a good look for Christie.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:50
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richardfun posted:The Donald would like all the profits from the CNN interview to go to veteran causes and has written a letter to Jeff Zucker requesting just that. Every moment that The Trump graces our dimension is a work of art. Has anyone ever seen Donald and Banksy in the same place at the same time? Just sayin.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:51
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Considering how much it clearly bothers Jeb!, what are the odds that Trump's "low energy" insults are because he found old papa Bush and Dubya give Jeb poo poo about that all the time?
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Sep 9, 2015 15:52
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richardfun posted:The Donald would like all the profits from the CNN interview to go to veteran causes and has written a letter to Jeff Zucker requesting just that. This is an amazing trap. Either they implicitly endorse Trump (and sacrifice all that huge pile of juicy profits that the corpulent slugsuits were looking forward to), or they get exposed for the greedy loving bastards they are. Profiteering off elections shouldn't be acceptable and good on Trump for exposing CNN on this point.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:54
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Feather posted:She literally told them to come up with policies and get back to her. That's literally what happened. It's not an exaggeration. She was right to tell them that. BLM activists seem bizarrely averse to actually participating in the political process, and until they do there's no reason for anyone with power to take them seriously. A "decentralized" movement isn't really a movement, it's just a warm spot of piss that quickly dissolves into the pool. If they want to make change then they need to build clout in the Democratic party. #BLM needs to mean the difference between getting a significant number of votes and not. They need legislative priorities to push on politicians. They need to fundraise and use that money to support candidates. They need to join forces with like minded groups. They need to do more than just loving show up and expect "trending" to magically translate into meaningful police reform. Interest groups write laws. They do it all the god drat time. They're so efficient at doing it that showing up without so much as a policy paper in your hand means you deserve to be taken about as seriously as Alaska secessionists. Raise some money, start a nonprofit, put some lawyers on the payroll, write a bill, and hire some lobbyists to push it. They'll get a hell of a lot closer to their goals doing that than sneering "that's their job, they need to figure it out" anytime a member of the press or the next President asks them what to do.
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Sep 9, 2015 15:59
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Will FOX be hosting any more republican debates? If Trump is willing to put the screws to CNN to donate at least part of their giant pile of debate money to a good cause, then FOX deserves the same treatment.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:01
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The Nastier Nate posted:Will FOX be hosting any more republican debates? If Trump is willing to put the screws to CNN to donate at least part of their giant pile of debate money to a good cause, then FOX deserves the same treatment. January and March, dates not announced http://www.uspresidentialelectionnews.com/2016-debate-schedule/2016-republican-primary-debate-schedule/
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Sep 9, 2015 16:05
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TheScott2K posted:She was right to tell them that. BLM activists seem bizarrely averse to actually participating in the political process, and until they do there's no reason for anyone with power to take them seriously. A "decentralized" movement isn't really a movement, it's just a warm spot of piss that quickly dissolves into the pool. I understand what you're saying, and I agree with a large amount of it. My only issue is that BLM is very new and so much of their activism has been around getting people to acknowledge the problem exists, which is sadly something many politicians and groups refuse to even do. The latter parts also require a certain level of expertise, and additionally resources; however the areas where this problem exists are often the most disadvantaged in both education and finances, many were being bled dry by punitive fines and police-as-collections-agents. From that perspective, being told to raise money and hire lawyers sounds like a more difficult prospect than it would be for a wealthier group of people who have easier access already. Yes, it would be better and easier if they had policy proposals written and referenced by research, or the lobbying power to push it. However, I feel that they want the problem to be acknowledged and that situationally they are at a disadvantage to go through those traditional means.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:10
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Fiorina made it to prime time. Someone tell Crowder he (alone) did it
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Sep 9, 2015 16:13
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I think JEB came across pretty well for a general audience, sort of like a sheepish, good-natured centrist.
platzapS fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 16:15
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platzapS posted:I think JEB came across pretty well for a general audience, sort of like a sheepish, good-natured centrist. Yeah, until he said that the problem with his little brother was that he wasn't conservative enough...
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Sep 9, 2015 16:20
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platzapS posted:I think JEB came across pretty well for a general audience, sort of like a sheepish, good-natured centrist. "It connotes excitement"
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Sep 9, 2015 16:20
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Mirthless posted:Why should you be happy spending the money today that you would have spent on an ivy league school ten years ago? Aren't ivy leagues free rides due to endowments?
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Sep 9, 2015 16:25
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Neeksy posted:I understand what you're saying, and I agree with a large amount of it. My only issue is that BLM is very new and so much of their activism has been around getting people to acknowledge the problem exists, which is sadly something many politicians and groups refuse to even do. The latter parts also require a certain level of expertise, and additionally resources; however the areas where this problem exists are often the most disadvantaged in both education and finances, many were being bled dry by punitive fines and police-as-collections-agents. From that perspective, being told to raise money and hire lawyers sounds like a more difficult prospect than it would be for a wealthier group of people who have easier access already. It doesn't even require research and lawyers and lobbyists to present policy proposals. Closer federal oversight of cops in minority communities, de-escalation training initiatives so that the gun doesn't come out first, involvement of hate crime charges if they would be applicable were the shooter not a cop. BLM's focus is on building the proverbial awareness when people are already pretty loving aware.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:27
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richardfun posted:Yeah, until he said that the problem with his little brother was that he wasn't conservative enough... On government spending, which was a fine answer for a general audience
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Sep 9, 2015 16:29
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Shageletic posted:"It connotes excitement" 
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Sep 9, 2015 16:29
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Neeksy posted:I understand what you're saying, and I agree with a large amount of it. My only issue is that BLM is very new and so much of their activism has been around getting people to acknowledge the problem exists, which is sadly something many politicians and groups refuse to even do. The latter parts also require a certain level of expertise, and additionally resources; however the areas where this problem exists are often the most disadvantaged in both education and finances, many were being bled dry by punitive fines and police-as-collections-agents. From that perspective, being told to raise money and hire lawyers sounds like a more difficult prospect than it would be for a wealthier group of people who have easier access already. Saying "I want to know what your solutions to the problem are so that I can help implement them" is acknowledging the problem exists. You don't ask for solutions to non-existent problems. And BLM has plenty of lawyers associated - I know some of them - and they do work on policy proposals.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:31
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Neeksy posted:I understand what you're saying, and I agree with a large amount of it. My only issue is that BLM is very new and so much of their activism has been around getting people to acknowledge the problem exists, which is sadly something many politicians and groups refuse to even do. The latter parts also require a certain level of expertise, and additionally resources; however the areas where this problem exists are often the most disadvantaged in both education and finances, many were being bled dry by punitive fines and police-as-collections-agents. From that perspective, being told to raise money and hire lawyers sounds like a more difficult prospect than it would be for a wealthier group of people who have easier access already. They have this: http://www.joincampaignzero.org/#vision It seems to me that they've already taken the leap beyond a simple hashtag trend and it would be a mistake to assume they are just another OWS where a lack of leadership and coherence led to ineffectiveness.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:32
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College is like major health care. If you or your family has the money, they will take all of it. If you don't, you can probably go into debt for 100k+ and get it anyway.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:37
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FAUXTON posted:BLM's focus is on building the proverbial awareness when people are already pretty loving aware. I'm not sure if that is entirely the case, but it might be that there are just too many who can never be convinced it's a real problem because of their own biases. Victim-blaming or "they were no angel"-style framing devices are alive and well, which are a cultural phenomenon that policy alone can't change. Of course, a decentralized movement is going to have a muddled message and harder time organizing as well.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:40
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Kalman posted:Saying "I want to know what your solutions to the problem are so that I can help implement them" is acknowledging the problem exists. You don't ask for solutions to non-existent problems. The problem with her response is that she seems to have no trouble pushing out policy agendas in other areas without having the people who they solve problems for do the policy work. She's engaging in the very white privilege the particular BLM activists wanted her to acknowledge. Sure, she needs to know what the problems are, but she also needs to leverage her supposed wonkishness to help deliver on them, too. I'll add that "come back to me with the solutions to your problems that I helped create" is both problematic on it's own (she knows at least some of what must be done) and a bit silly given her insistence that she's the master of Listening To People.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:41
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Slaughterhouse-Ive posted:Considering how much it clearly bothers Jeb!, what are the odds that Trump's "low energy" insults are because he found old papa Bush and Dubya give Jeb poo poo about that all the time? What have the other Bushes said about Jeb being low energy? I haven't heard about that before.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:42
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Coatlicue posted:What have the other Bushes said about Jeb being low energy? I haven't heard about that before. Neither has he. He's speculating on whether or not they said that.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:45
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Kalman posted:Saying "I want to know what your solutions to the problem are so that I can help implement them" is acknowledging the problem exists. You don't ask for solutions to non-existent problems. I see. I'll concede that point, then! I kinda wish HRC did a little bit more in that interview in regards to acknowledging the problems with and her role in promoting the policies in the 90s, but it's hard to say how one could do that without it sounding like they had poor judgment at the time or perhaps influenced by political expediency. That might have been why I interpreted her questions of desired policy less charitably, mistakenly.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:47
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Feather posted:The problem with her response is that she seems to have no trouble pushing out policy agendas in other areas without having the people who they solve problems for do the policy work. She's engaging in the very white privilege the particular BLM activists wanted her to acknowledge. Sure, she needs to know what the problems are, but she also needs to leverage her supposed wonkishness to help deliver on them, too. Do you really think Hillary Clinton sat down and came up with her policy agenda? Of course she didn't. It's a casserole made of bits thought up by Democratic interest groups and think tanks.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:49
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Feather posted:The problem with her response is that she seems to have no trouble pushing out policy agendas in other areas without having the people who they solve problems for do the policy work. Wrong. If Hillary's pushing a proposal it'll have either come from an interest group of have been run past that interest group for input. She doesn't just come up with these things off the top of her head. But for some reason it's "White Privilege" to not solve all black people's problems without their input.
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Sep 9, 2015 16:49
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Neeksy posted:I see. I'll concede that point, then! I think she kind of set an awkward tone from the beginning when she said, "look, um, I've got a lot of black friends, you know my husband was named the first black president by Jet magazine, right?"
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Sep 9, 2015 16:50
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Feather posted:The problem with her response is that she seems to have no trouble pushing out policy agendas in other areas without having the people who they solve problems for do the policy work. She's engaging in the very white privilege the particular BLM activists wanted her to acknowledge. Sure, she needs to know what the problems are, but she also needs to leverage her supposed wonkishness to help deliver on them, too. Then there's no right answer, is there? If she comes up with her own solutions, then she's ignoring the input of the African American community, and if she asks for their solutions, then she's "engaging in white privilege." Is there anything she can do that wouldn't be criticized, at this point?
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Sep 9, 2015 16:52
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Fish Cant Hold Gun posted:I hate the fact that the concept that "all lives matter" has been co-opted by racists The concept was always terrible. At best it was a flimsy way to waffle around the blatant fact that both parties support policies that harm black people. At worst it implied that BLM activists were claiming black lives were superior.
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