Auspol: Not with a bang but with a whisper

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol: Not with a bang but with a whisper

The Peccadillo: Mar 4, 2013; We Have Important Work To Do

Lid posted:

The internal word was based on the Party Bubble. They may have said "well our spin doctors say we need to keep him around to show we don't backstab anymore and we're struck with him" even though y'know it's being investigated over branch stacking that got him into power in the first place being against the rules and potentially illegal.

Fact is they have an out to get rid of him, and a year is a long time in politics let alone the next three months. There's going to be a lot of people talking to Shorten telling him to walk away before he is pushed.

Ugh, that's dumb as hell. It's so usual now, the only way people would even notice is if they replaced him with someone impressive

# ? Oct 5, 2015 10:14

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 10:58

Negligent: Aug 20, 2013; Its just lovely here this time of year.

Execu-speak posted:

The debate in this thread about the NSW shooting is so cute. The offender is on CCTV running up and down out front of the building yelling, "Allah akbar".

You dumb cunts need to stop shoving your heads up your asses in the name of political correctness and call a spare a spade. It's terrorism related.

Was it terrorism when i banged ur mom she was yelling jesus gently caress oh god

# ? Oct 5, 2015 10:15

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Execu-speak posted:

The debate in this thread about the NSW shooting is so cute. The offender is on CCTV running up and down out front of the building yelling, "Allah akbar".

You dumb cunts need to stop shoving your heads up your asses in the name of political correctness and call a spare a spade. It's terrorism related.

So let me pull my head out of my rectum long enough to ask - Is everyone who commits violence in the name of a religion a terrorist?

quote:

terrorism
ˈtɛrərɪzəm/Submit
noun
the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Seems to be a disconnect here. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 10:15

Starshark: Dec 22, 2005; Doctor Rope

Cartoon posted:

So let me pull my head out of my rectum long enough to ask - Is everyone who commits violence in the name of a religion a terrorist?

Seems to be a disconnect here. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

The personal is political. All violence is terrorism.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 10:17

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Starshark posted:

The personal is political. All violence is terrorism.

It's been pretty well established that "terrorism" as it exists to bring about a societal shift does on the majority not work, i.e. 9/11 was counterproductive to Bin Laden's aims. There are exceptions to this, in which the IRA bombings did eventually lead to peace and more even ground or South Africa where most people forget that Nelson Mandela himself was a bomber and "terrorist" (to the apartheid government, the whole "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter"). But to uniform "all violence is terrorism" is re-defining what terrorism is because its not politically palatable.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 10:20

EvilElmo: May 10, 2009

Cartoon posted:

So let me pull my head out of my rectum long enough to ask - Is everyone who commits violence in the name of a religion a terrorist?

Seems to be a disconnect here. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

Please refer to legal definition of terrorism.

Do your own homework.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 10:21

Negligent: Aug 20, 2013; Its just lovely here this time of year.

'gently caress tha police' is a legit political aim

# ? Oct 5, 2015 10:23

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

Negligent posted:

'gently caress tha police' is a legit political aim

david cameron joke

# ? Oct 5, 2015 10:25

Diet Crack: Jan 15, 2001

Home Groan Terrism

Long live the Ubereich (seriously gently caress Swan Taxis)

I guess the Bushmaster project went well: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-05/anatomy-of-hawkei/6828328

# ? Oct 5, 2015 10:31

Starshark: Dec 22, 2005; Doctor Rope

EvilElmo posted:

Please refer to legal definition of terrorism.

Do your own homework.

So to be clear - if someone yells 'allah ackbar' while killing someone (which is all the evidence I've seen so far in this thread) that's enough for it to be terrorism for you?

# ? Oct 5, 2015 10:34

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

EvilElmo posted:

Please refer to legal definition of terrorism.

Do your own homework.

OK http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/UNSWLJ/2004/22.html

quote:

(1) Any person commits an offence within the meaning of this Convention if that person, by any means, unlawfully and intentionally, causes:
(a) Death or serious bodily injury to any person; or
(b) Serious damage to public or private property, including a place of public use, a State or government facility, a public transportation system, an infrastructure facility or the environment; or
(c) Damage to property, places, facilities, or systems referred to in paragraph 1(b) of this article, resulting or likely to result in major economic loss, when the purpose of the conduct, by its nature or context, is to intimidate a population, or to compel a Government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing an act.

So accepting this international convention conclusion (I and many others don't) You would have to prove that this was designed as an act of intimidation.

The Australian legislation is a little bit wordier:

quote:

(1) In this Part: �

terrorist act means an action or threat of action where:

(a) the action falls within subsection (2) and does not fall within subsection (3); and
(b) the action is done or the threat is made with the intention of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause; and
(c) the action is done or the threat is made with the intention of:
(i) coercing, or influencing by intimidation, the government of the Commonwealth or a State, Territory or foreign country, or of part of a State, Territory or foreign country; or
(ii) intimidating the public or a section of the public.

(2) Action falls within this subsection if it:
(a) causes serious harm that is physical harm to a person; or
(b) causes serious damage to property; or
(c) causes a person�s death; or
(d) endangers a person�s life, other than the life of the person taking the action; or
(e) creates a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public; or
(f) seriously interferes with, seriously disrupts, or destroys, an electronic system including, but not limited to:
(i) an information system; or
(ii) a telecommunications system; or
(iii) a financial system; or
(iv) a system used for the delivery of essential government services; or
(v) a system used for, or by, an essential public utility; or
(vi) a system used for, or by, a transport system.

(3) Action falls within this subsection if it:
(a) is advocacy, protest, dissent or industrial action; and
(b) is not intended:
(i) to cause serious harm that is physical harm to a person; or
(ii) to cause a person�s death; or
(iii) to endanger the life of a person, other than the person taking the action; or
(iv) to create a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public.

(4) In this Division:

(a) a reference to any person or property is a reference to any person or property wherever situated, within or outside Australia; and
(b) a reference to the public includes a reference to the public of a country other than Australia.

So is only terrorism if "the action is done or the threat is made with the intention of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause". Now here we have some richer grounds for allowing it as terrorism, after all this is Australian Federal law. Unfortunately these laws have long been considered far to broad in their application and beg the question above:

Is everyone who commits violence in the name of a religion a terrorist?

# ? Oct 5, 2015 10:36

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

Lid posted:

It's been pretty well established that "terrorism" as it exists to bring about a societal shift does on the majority not work, i.e. 9/11 was counterproductive to Bin Laden's aims.

lmao stopped reading here, source your quotes

# ? Oct 5, 2015 10:43

EvilElmo: May 10, 2009

Cartoon posted:

Is everyone who commits violence in the name of a religion a terrorist?

Did you read any of what you quoted? Your question is very clearly answered.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 10:43

Negligent: Aug 20, 2013; Its just lovely here this time of year.

religion is just a highly specific form of mental illness

# ? Oct 5, 2015 10:46

Ahh Yes: Nov 16, 2004; >_>

A kid who identifies with other terrorists by shouting out a common phrase used by terrorists in other attacks, while attacking a politically motivated target clearly isn't a terrorist. :smug:

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:15

Starshark: Dec 22, 2005; Doctor Rope

Ahh Yes posted:

A kid who identifies with other terrorists by shouting out a common phrase used by terrorists in other attacks, while attacking a politically motivated target clearly isn't a terrorist.

"Praise the Lord" sure is a phrase only used by terrorists.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:16

Ahh Yes: Nov 16, 2004; >_>

Might want to watch some isis videos and see what the number one expression is :smug:

Or maybe the not a terrorist was identifying with the so called moderate Islamic community while shooting at a police worker

Ahh Yes fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Oct 5, 2015

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:18

Zenithe: Feb 25, 2013; _{Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.}

Starshark posted:

"Praise the Lord" sure is a phrase only used by terrorists.

That's not even what it means.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:23

Starshark: Dec 22, 2005; Doctor Rope

Zenithe posted:

That's not even what it means.

Is the true meaning a million miles from what I just said?

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:25

Smudgie Buggler: Feb 27, 2005; SET PHASERS TO "GRINDING TEDIUM"

Cartoon posted:

Is everyone who commits violence in the name of a religion a terrorist?

Clearly not, unless the violence meets at least one of the two criteria under s 5(1)(c).

Read your own poo poo.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:27

Jonah Galtberg: Feb 11, 2009

Ahh Yes posted:

Might want to watch some isis videos and see what the number one expression is

Ahh Yes

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:32

Tirade: Jul 17, 2001; Cybertron must act decisively to prevent and oppose acts of genocide and violations of international robot rights law and to bring perpetrators before the Decepticon Justice Division; Pillbug

Starshark posted:

"Praise the Lord" sure is a phrase only used by terrorists.

Nah people yell that all the time after shooting cops in the head.

Edit: cop employees.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:37

Starshark: Dec 22, 2005; Doctor Rope

Tirade posted:

Nah people yell that all the time after shooting cops in the head.

Edit: cop employees.

So all you need for something to be a terrorist attack is that the guy said 'allah ackbar'? I need a bit more than that, like backing from a terrorist organisation but maybe I'm just crazy.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:38

Ahh Yes: Nov 16, 2004; >_>

Jonah Galtberg posted:

Ahh Yes

انا مثلي الجنس ، و المسلمين تهدد هويتي ، مع الحديث إلههم و قطع الرؤوس . أنا مثلي الجنس.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:39

Ahh Yes: Nov 16, 2004; >_>

Starshark posted:

So all you need for something to be a terrorist attack is that the guy said 'allah ackbar'? I need a bit more than that, like backing from a terrorist organisation but maybe I'm just crazy.

It's like uber now mate, anyone can be a driver or terrorist, you just need to act a certain way and also, shoot innocent people in the head.

As long as the ethos is there, then yeah he's probably identified himself with terrorist groups who have at the least influenced him and more than likely encouraged his actions.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:43

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

Starshark posted:

Is the true meaning a million miles from what I just said?

"God is great".

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:45

Tirade: Jul 17, 2001; Cybertron must act decisively to prevent and oppose acts of genocide and violations of international robot rights law and to bring perpetrators before the Decepticon Justice Division; Pillbug

Starshark posted:

So all you need for something to be a terrorist attack is that the guy said 'allah ackbar'? I need a bit more than that, like backing from a terrorist organisation but maybe I'm just crazy.

It fits both definitions that Cartoon posted earlier. Maybe you should go down to the cop shop and demand the kid's long-form ISIL membership certificate you cretin.

I don't get it. What's your angle? Why are you trying so hard to argue that this isn't terrorism? Is it so hard to believe that certain members of our society - Australian Defence League members, sovereign citizens, Muslim kids encouraged by ISIL to attack a cop or a soldier - can go so far off the rails that they'd try to do something like this? Admitting that a single Muslim kid was radicalised doesn't magically sign you up to the Stop the Bendigo Mosque facebook page.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:50

Starshark: Dec 22, 2005; Doctor Rope

Tirade posted:

It fits both definitions that Cartoon posted earlier. Maybe you should go down to the cop shop and demand the kid's long-form ISIL membership certificate you cretin.

I don't get it. What's your angle? Why are you trying so hard to argue that this isn't terrorism? Is it so hard to believe that certain members of our society - Australian Defence League members, sovereign citizens, Muslim kids encouraged by ISIL to attack a cop or a soldier - can go so far off the rails that they'd try to do something like this? Admitting that a single Muslim kid was radicalised doesn't magically sign you up to the Stop the Bendigo Mosque facebook page.

I'm just saying I need more evidence. If someone shot a cop and said 'Praise the Lord' you wouldn't be calling it terrorism. Why are Muslims subject to greater scrutiny?

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:53

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Starshark posted:

I'm just saying I need more evidence. If someone shot a cop and said 'Praise the Lord' you wouldn't be calling it terrorism. Why are Muslims subject to greater scrutiny?

I'm pretty sure when The Last Rhodesian shot up a church in the name of blacks taking over the world it was subject to be rated terrorism. This really is a case of people going too far in the other extreme and now nothing is terrorism because everything is terrorism.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:57

iajanus: Aug 17, 2004; NUMBER 1 QUEENSLAND SUPPORTER
MAROONS 2023 STATE OF ORIGIN CHAMPIONS FOR LIFE

Starshark posted:

I'm just saying I need more evidence. If someone shot a cop and said 'Praise the Lord' you wouldn't be calling it terrorism. Why are Muslims subject to greater scrutiny?

It's the vibe.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:58

Ahh Yes: Nov 16, 2004; >_>

Yeah, Muslims are probably unfairly targeted by Western society. Just a few recent events may have created a negative image problem for Islam. #notallmuslims

# ? Oct 5, 2015 11:59

Negligent: Aug 20, 2013; Its just lovely here this time of year.

look, terrorism is a means to an end. kid was obviously politically motivated.

I mean who just goes around yelling allah ackbar. apart from you know, a billion muslims.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 12:00

Starshark: Dec 22, 2005; Doctor Rope

Lid posted:

I'm pretty sure when The Last Rhodesian shot up a church in the name of blacks taking over the world it was subject to be rated terrorism. This really is a case of people going too far in the other extreme and now nothing is terrorism because everything is terrorism.

Yeeeees - Roof did more than simply yell out a few words. There was evidence that he specifically wanted to target black people to terrorise the black community. I haven't seen similar evidence in this case yet (not that I've read every drat article on the event - if anyone wants to provide more evidence than what has been shown in this thread I'm all ears). So far, we have one guy saying he shouted 'Allah ackbar'.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 12:03

Ahh Yes: Nov 16, 2004; >_>

I too like to shout out fire in movie theatres, because the context is irrelevant.

:smug:

# ? Oct 5, 2015 12:03

Starshark: Dec 22, 2005; Doctor Rope

Ahh Yes posted:

I too like to shout out fire in movie theatres, because the context is irrelevant.

LOL you'd really like me to reply to you, wouldn't you? I've never seen anyone in this thread try to get attention like you.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 12:04

Ahh Yes: Nov 16, 2004; >_>

Starshark posted:

LOL you'd really like me to reply to you, wouldn't you? I've never seen anyone in this thread try to get attention like you.

I was actually talking to Negligent, but ok babe.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 12:06

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Starshark posted:

I'm just saying I need more evidence. If someone shot a cop and said 'Praise the Lord' you wouldn't be calling it terrorism. Why are Muslims subject to greater scrutiny?

Because you aren't doing it for a political reason? It might be an over simplification but it seems to me that a big part of Islamic fundamentalism revolves around opposing and attacking secularism and other social/political/religious institutions that they decide is in conflict with their interpretations of Islam. I think those motivations are what separates 'terrorism' from other violence and why acts by radicalised Muslims tends to be called terrorism. A madman killing a cop is committing murder, a person doing the same thing as part of a broader campaign for change is committing terrorism. The same should be applied to people like Anders Breivik, Christian fundamentalists who bomb abortion clinics or racists like the KKK who attack black people.

# ? Oct 5, 2015 12:08