Gunthread II: The Gunnening

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Gunthread II: The Gunnening

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

various cheeses posted:

If they're breaking the law by enabling straw buyers punish the gently caress out of them. Same with the buyers themselves. Of course this is the same department that allowed guns to walk to Mexico even when the stores brought it up.

we tried

gun lobby passed a bill banning it

also it's the same department that has faced unrelenting political attacks for about two decades targeted at weakening it as much as possible

like the nra proposal that "we should enforce our existing gun laws" always fails to mention who the best friend of criminals under our existing gun laws is

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:25

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 13:16

Snowman Crossing: Dec 4, 2009

Who What Now posted:

What do you care? Just construct your own guns.

A garbage-dick homemade gun

A loving beautiful snubbie Smith & Wesson from my collection

Plz don't ban guns

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:27

Gin and Juche: Apr 3, 2008; The Highest Judge of Paradise
Shiki Eiki
YAMAXANADU

various cheeses posted:

It looks like a top ten causes of death graph to me. Came from some suicide awareness page. I'm sorry it isn't the graph you want: the one with GUN DEATH as #1 with the rest being tiny slivers.

What if I think Kraft foods and Smith and Wesson should be Ricoed as a double stuff ore a sandwich of death?

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:27

various cheeses: Jan 24, 2013

evilweasel posted:

we tried

gun lobby passed a bill banning it

also it's the same department that has faced unrelenting political attacks for about two decades targeted at weakening it as much as possible

like the nra proposal that "we should enforce our existing gun laws" always fails to mention who the best friend of criminals under our existing gun laws is

I hope you're not talking about the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act.

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:28

ugh its Troika: May 2, 2009; by FactsAreUseless

Since some of you are talking about homemade guns (even if only ironically), perhaps you might find this interesting. It's a blog where a guy does nothing but post pics of homemade guns confiscated by police around the world.

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:28

various cheeses: Jan 24, 2013

-Troika- posted:

Since some of you are talking about homemade guns (even if only ironically), perhaps you might find this interesting. It's a blog where a guy does nothing but post pics of homemade guns confiscated by police around the world.

Ok that's pretty cool.

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:31

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

-Troika- posted:

Since some of you are talking about homemade guns (even if only ironically), perhaps you might find this interesting. It's a blog where a guy does nothing but post pics of homemade guns confiscated by police around the world.

its good to know that even if the perfidious gun snatchers have their way with the defenseless constitution of the united states, that some courageous and enterprising americans will still be able to employ the most effective form of voluntary euthanasia known

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:32

Snowman Crossing: Dec 4, 2009

Flowers For Algeria posted:

French gun policy :

Some guns may not be owned because they are wholly unnecessary. These include weapons of war.

Some guns may be owned and kept at home on the condition of a prefectoral agreement licensing ownership and detention. You have to be a member of the national shooting federation and over 18 to apply, with regular training at a range, show proof that you own a safe, show a certificate that attests you are in full possession of your mental abilities delivered by a competent doctor, and pass a background check. The national shooting federation also has to give a favorable opinion to your application. Upon reception of the agreement, you have three months to buy the gun you have applied for. You may not own over 12 guns, and a thousand bullets. And the agreement has to be renewed every 5 years. Of course, you are not allowed to carry these - unless you are going to a range. All handguns are in this category, among other guns.

Some guns may be owned without an express agreement, but they need to be declared to the pr�fecture - this is the gun seller's job. However, to buy one you need to show either that you have a hunter's license, or a shooting license for people who shoot for sport. These may be used at ranges or to hunt or for sport under certain conditions.

The only guns you are allowed to buy freely are either entirely unusable, or have been made before 1900. There's another category of guns that simply need to be registered - long barreled single-shot small rifles.

For a full list of which gun is in which ategory, please refer to https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/N287

In my opinion this policy is sensible, although a little bit too permissive. There ought to be regular checks that the guns are stored safely at home, and regular background checks of the people on the registry.
In the US, given the wording of the second amendment, it wouldn't strike me as odd to have all registered gun-owners added to some sort of military reserve.

Is this reasonable enough for you? I have a suspicion that, to you, anything approaching this level of regulation is obviously just the first stage in the liberal plan to trick the country into repealing the second amendment, but I thought I'd ask anyways.

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:41

Armyman25: Sep 6, 2005

Megaschmoo posted:

So various cheeses, please tell me what you think about this:

Is this reasonable enough for you? I have a suspicion that, to you, anything approaching this level of regulation is obviously just the first stage in the liberal plan to trick the country into repealing the second amendment, but I thought I'd ask anyways.

The part I don't like is the poster suggesting regular inspections of a person's home to ensure that they are complying with proper firearms storage. It sounds like a quick way around the 4th Amendment protection against unreasonable searches.

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:43

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Megaschmoo posted:

So various cheeses, please tell me what you think about this:

Is this reasonable enough for you? I have a suspicion that, to you, anything approaching this level of regulation is obviously just the first stage in the liberal plan to trick the country into repealing the second amendment, but I thought I'd ask anyways.

I'm curious what sort of organization the National Shooting Federation is under French law - it seems to be serving a quasi-governmental function but it doesn't sound like a government agency. It seems to play an important role in the law so I think it's hard to understand it without that.

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:47

Lemming: Apr 21, 2008

Armyman25 posted:

The part I don't like is the poster suggesting regular inspections of a person's home to ensure that they are complying with proper firearms storage. It sounds like a quick way around the 4th Amendment protection against unreasonable searches.

I don't think verifying you aren't using a loaded hand gun in a baby mobile is "unreasonable."

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:48

Flowers For Algeria: Dec 3, 2005; I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.

Armyman25 posted:

The part I don't like is the poster suggesting regular inspections of a person's home to ensure that they are complying with proper firearms storage. It sounds like a quick way around the 4th Amendment protection against unreasonable searches.

I hadn't considered this! You are right, of course. A possible workaround could be that guns could only be stored at designated locations, then.

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:49

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Lemming posted:

I don't think verifying you aren't using a loaded hand gun in a baby mobile is "unreasonable."

I think his concern is more just "surprise firearms safety check!" being the new "oh that kid totally dropped that bag of weed when I looked at him" excuse for an illegal search. Easy to fix, you have a set schedule or a once-yearly check by a separate organization from the police.

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:50

various cheeses: Jan 24, 2013

Megaschmoo posted:

So various cheeses, please tell me what you think about this:

Is this reasonable enough for you? I have a suspicion that, to you, anything approaching this level of regulation is obviously just the first stage in the liberal plan to trick the country into repealing the second amendment, but I thought I'd ask anyways.

No thanks, I can't read most of the French page, but it's pretty bad from what he posted. It's basically heavy restriction or an outright ban on 99% of guns. Are you saying it's not?

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:55

bad news bareback: Jan 16, 2009

Flowers For Algeria posted:

French gun policy :

Some guns may not be owned because they are wholly unnecessary. These include weapons of war.

Some guns may be owned and kept at home on the condition of a prefectoral agreement licensing ownership and detention. You have to be a member of the national shooting federation and over 18 to apply, with regular training at a range, show proof that you own a safe, show a certificate that attests you are in full possession of your mental abilities delivered by a competent doctor, and pass a background check. The national shooting federation also has to give a favorable opinion to your application. Upon reception of the agreement, you have three months to buy the gun you have applied for. You may not own over 12 guns, and a thousand bullets. And the agreement has to be renewed every 5 years. Of course, you are not allowed to carry these - unless you are going to a range. All handguns are in this category, among other guns.

Some guns may be owned without an express agreement, but they need to be declared to the pr�fecture - this is the gun seller's job. However, to buy one you need to show either that you have a hunter's license, or a shooting license for people who shoot for sport. These may be used at ranges or to hunt or for sport under certain conditions.

The only guns you are allowed to buy freely are either entirely unusable, or have been made before 1900. There's another category of guns that simply need to be registered - long barreled single-shot small rifles.

For a full list of which gun is in which ategory, please refer to https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/N287

In my opinion this policy is sensible, although a little bit too permissive. There ought to be regular checks that the guns are stored safely at home, and regular background checks of the people on the registry.
In the US, given the wording of the second amendment, it wouldn't strike me as odd to have all registered gun-owners added to some sort of military reserve.

I agree with this as a way to lower gun related deaths and injuries in the USA.

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:55

Armyman25: Sep 6, 2005

evilweasel posted:

I think his concern is more just "surprise firearms safety check!" being the new "oh that kid totally dropped that bag of weed when I looked at him" excuse for an illegal search. Easy to fix, you have a set schedule or a once-yearly check by a separate organization from the police.

See, this is what actual negotiation looks like. A proposal, a concern, a counter-proposal.

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:55

CommieGIR: Aug 22, 2006; The blue glow is a feature, not a bug; Pillbug

Armyman25 posted:

See, this is what actual negotiation looks like. A proposal, a concern, a counter-proposal.

Now if only you were capable of doing such things.

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:57

Flowers For Algeria: Dec 3, 2005; I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.

evilweasel posted:

I'm curious what sort of organization the National Shooting Federation is under French law - it seems to be serving a quasi-governmental function but it doesn't sound like a government agency. It seems to play an important role in the law so I think it's hard to understand it without that.

The FFTir is a non-profit organization that oversees the activities of local gun associations. It is non-governmental, but it is recognized by the Ministry of Sports and as such it is considered as participating in the public service (I have no idea how to translate "association reconnue d'utilit� publique" or "mission de service public" in English, because they are legal terms lol). That's why it is tasked with maintaining a registry of gun hobbyists - anyone who shoots at a range needs to get a license.

# ? Oct 12, 2015 23:57

TheDeadlyShoe: Feb 14, 2014

various cheeses posted:

No thanks, I can't read most of the French page, but it's pretty bad from what he posted. It's basically heavy restriction or an outright ban on 99% of guns. Are you saying it's not?

well yes being restriction is the entire point. that is literally factually true and not a point in contention.

is stuff like being required to own a gun safe, pass a background check, and get regular training really too onerous?

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:02

haricots: Apr 12, 2014

various cheeses posted:

No thanks, I can't read most of the French page, but it's pretty bad from what he posted. It's basically heavy restriction or an outright ban on 99% of guns. Are you saying it's not?

Ok so, which parts exactly do you think are too restrictive?

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:02

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

various cheeses posted:

No thanks, I can't read most of the French page, but it's pretty bad from what he posted. It's basically heavy restriction or an outright ban on 99% of guns. Are you saying it's not?

What do you think should be done? You're not a public figure, no risk of giving an inch where suddenly a mile is taken because this debate doesn't affect anything. You can wave a wand and rewrite gun laws without it impacting the chance of gun laws you don't like passing, what would you pass?

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:04

Who What Now: Sep 10, 2006; by Azathoth

Snowman Crossing posted:

A garbage-dick homemade gun

A loving beautiful snubbie Smith & Wesson from my collection

Plz don't ban guns

Maybe don't be a lazy rear end in a top hat and take some pride in your work when you make your gun.

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:08

various cheeses: Jan 24, 2013

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

well yes being restriction is the entire point. that is literally factually true and not a point in contention.

is stuff like being required to own a gun safe, pass a background check, and get regular training really too onerous?

A safe is a tough buy if you're poor. I think the poor should have equal opportunity in exercising their rights. Of course, if you can afford one you should certainly put your guns in there. I sure as hell do.
Background checks are fine, and should be strengthened tbh.
Regular training/education is great too. Why not stick it in schools alongside sex ed - another thing people are stupid as hell about.

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:09

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Yes why NOT put more guns in schools

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:11

Armyman25: Sep 6, 2005

Tatum Girlparts posted:

Yes why NOT put more guns in schools

You don't need to have ammunition or even actual working firearms to teach firearms safety.

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:13

hallebarrysoetoro: Jun 14, 2003

Armyman25 posted:

You don't need to have ammunition or even actual working firearms to teach firearms safety.

But do you need unsubstantiated fears of black people taking your property?

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:13

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

There is no need to teach firearm safety in schools as the majority of americans are sensible people who do not plan to own a gun and never will, and would just be NRA propaganda hour to learn about how people who don't have guns are lame-os and you will definitely be robbed, raped and killed if you don't have a gun.

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:14

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Funny enough gun safety class would actually be the perfect venue for 'absence only' poo poo.

"Yea you have the freedom to buy a gun, but just remember having that gun in your house leads to more suicide opportunities, better odds of killing yourself or a loved one than any intruder, and if you have any young family in the house could wind up found by them, and the only way to avoid that is to just not get one".

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:16

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

evilweasel posted:

There is no need to teach firearm safety in schools as the majority of americans are sensible people who do not plan to own a gun and never will, and would just be NRA propaganda hour to learn about how people who don't have guns are lame-os and you will definitely be robbed, raped and killed if you don't have a gun.

What are you talking about, man, so much of the NRA's base is also VERY concerned about 'bias' in our schools, there's no way these noble watchdogs of fairness and even coverage would allow this to happen!

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:17

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

sex ed is bad in american schools because of right-wing interference with science and reality, which is why we've decided to supplement it with NRA-CARES gun safety classes mandated by your local republican majority

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:17

Tezzor: Jul 29, 2013; Can't post for 3 years!

Improving access to "Gun safety" is a lot like improving access to "mental health" - feel-good ideas that would do nothing whatsoever to address the problem, because the problem is the availability of guns.

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:19

Flowers For Algeria: Dec 3, 2005; I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.

various cheeses posted:

No thanks, I can't read most of the French page, but it's pretty bad from what he posted. It's basically heavy restriction or an outright ban on 99% of guns. Are you saying it's not?

Just for you, here is a quick rundown of each category.

Guns that may not be sold to civilians are -
Stocked (I think? you hold the butt against your shoulder) guns with a capacity of over 31 bullets without reloading
Handguns that can shoot over 21 bullets without reloading
Rifles with a caliber over 20mm.
Smoothbore guns (I'm guessing shotguns?) with a higher caliber than 8, with some exceptions
Any gun that doesn't look like a gun
Any weapon of war

Guns that require an express authorization to own and keep are -
Other handguns
Semi-automatic stocked guns that have a capacity higher than 3 bullets
Other stocked guns that have a capacity higher than 11 bullets
Rifles shorter than 80 cm or with a cannon shorter than 45 cm
Several kinds of shotguns, including pump-action shotguns
Guns that look like weapons of war
Guns that use 7,62, 5,56, 5,45, and a few other calibers
Tasers
Mace, except for certain kinds

Guns that have to be declared are -
All other guns and rifles, especially one-shot rifles
Flareguns
Non-lethal guns such as rubber ball launchers

Guns that have to be registered are -
One shot smoothbore rifles, presumably for hunting purposes

Guns that you can acquire freely -
Disabled guns
Historical pieces
BB guns

So you're right! It's pretty heavy restriction - that doesn't stop 130 000 French people from being in the FFTir and presumably shooting guns at least semi-regularly. Isn't that great? Best of both worlds.

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:21

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

various cheeses posted:

Why not stick it in schools alongside sex ed - another thing people are stupid as hell about.

guns are not an essential component of life, unlike math, or fingerbanging behind the bleachers

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:22

TheFuglyStik: Mar 7, 2003; Attention-starved & smugly condescending, the hipster has been deemed by
top scientists as:
"The self-important, unemployable clowns of the modern age."

various cheeses posted:

I think the poor should have equal opportunity in exercising their rights.

I know I'm taking a sentence of your post out of context and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt on not believing this, but I have heard more than one gun nut advocate for gun-stamps without a hint of irony. It was a :staredog:

moment, for sure.

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:23

Armyman25: Sep 6, 2005

hallebarrysoetoro posted:

But do you need unsubstantiated fears of black people taking your property?

I live in the midwest. I'm way more scared of the Bosnians, those motherfuckers are hardcore.

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:24

Flowers For Algeria: Dec 3, 2005; I humbly offer my services as forum inquisitor. There is absolutely no way I would abuse this power in any way.

various cheeses posted:

A safe is a tough buy if you're poor. I think the poor should have equal opportunity in exercising their rights. Of course, if you can afford one you should certainly put your guns in there. I sure as hell do.

Yes, that's why firing ranges should also offer to keep your guns for free. It's even safer.

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:25

Woolie Wool: Jun 2, 2006

evilweasel posted:

What do you think should be done? You're not a public figure, no risk of giving an inch where suddenly a mile is taken because this debate doesn't affect anything. You can wave a wand and rewrite gun laws without it impacting the chance of gun laws you don't like passing, what would you pass?

Man I'd probably have to make a big ol effortpost and the thread will go flying by. Break it up for me and I'll give you answers on specifics.

Here's a giant wall of text that has some good ideas for starters though. Specifically the sections on enforcement and background check strengthening. It's a pretty good read.

sky shark posted:

Realtalk on solving some of the glaring problems with mass shootings & firearms laws in general:

Identify the current policies that are failing
All jokes about nuclear holocaust and wiping out humanity aside, I think we all can agree that the current policy of "let's make sure that the crazy guy with a gun has a safe working environment" has failed miserably at preventing mass shootings. When you are just nutty enough to commit several death penalty felonies such as mass murder and the like, a sign on a door saying "no guns" isn't going to stop you. With that in mind, maybe it's time to allow people to defend themselves since there's at least 10 instances of people with CCW preventing mass shootings or stopping them from getting any further.

Nobody is saying HURR DURR GUNS EVERYWHERE. Nobody is calling for armed swat teams in schools. Please save the "blood will run in the streets, armed vigilantes getting in fights over tests!" arguments as they haven't born out in the 30 or so years CCW reform has been spreading through the US. Texas collects CHL revocation rates and unsurprisingly people who bother to go through the legal rigmarole of having a clean criminal record, getting tested and getting a permit to carry commit far fewer crimes than the general population as a whole. Before anyone starts whining about drunk freshmen carrying guns at college, most states have a 21 year old age limit for CCW so chances are the only people carrying are going to be adults doing continuing education or veterans using the GI Bill. All things being equal, I'd rather dudes like Chris Mintz have something other than their gigantic brass balls to fight with if they happen to encounter a school shooter.

As it is right now, even if your state allows you to carry at work or school, you can be fired or expelled for doing so. Maybe, just maybe, that should change.

Stricter enforcement of firearms violations
Most firearms crimes are felonies. It does no good to make all these felonies if you don't prosecute. If someone is stopped on a background check because they are a felon, put them in jail. Obama has talked tough on this but hasn't delivered

Then again, neither has any president. This is a decades long problem, across all administrations. Nobody has ever cracked down on these crimes - you know how you hear about background checks stopping [x] number of felons from getting guns? Each of those is a slam dunk fed felony with prison time up to ten years and fines up to $250k. They aren't enforced ever so they aren't effective deterrents - they are a toothless threat. When Colorado passed universal background checks, they touted something like 2900 criminals being stopped by background checks within the state and claimed this was a sign of success (and these were actual felons with ag assault, murder, burglaries, etc convictions). They made around 230 arrests off them. Who knows how many went to jail for it.

Meanwhile guys like this get probation for actually getting caught trafficking by nutball judges.

On top of that, a couple of these mass murderers had run ins with the cops prior to going hog wild

The Navy Yard Shooter, Alexis Aaron, had shot out some guys tires, claiming he went into a blackout rage and got his rear end kicked out of the navy on another firearms charge.

The guy that shot up the Lafayette movie theater had been denied a CCW because he'd been brought in on arson and domestic violence charges. Guess what? No convictions.

Maybe, just maybe, getting some of these guys to plead guilty to felonies or putting them behind bars might have prevented them being able to buy a gun in a store.

Fixing the background check system
For those unfamiliar with the process, every time someone buys a gun from a FFL, they are put through the National Instant Background Check system that was proposed by the NRA when the 94 Brady Bill went through. The NICS system takes the info filled in on the ATF 4473 and checks it against a FBI database and returns either PROCEED / DENY / DELAY. It's only as good as the info that gets put into it.

NICS needs to be fixed. States are inputting crap into the database, or not putting in complete records. The gun industry has a campaign to solve this: http://www.fixnics.org/factinfo.cfm

Remember the Lafayette movie theater guy? Yeah, GA removed his info from NICS, allowing him to buy a gun from a pawn shop.

Dylan Roof, the Charleston Church Shooter, had been arrested for drug charges and was pending trial, making him a prohibited person blocked from purchasing. Whoops, the reporting agency didn't put the data in correctly and when Roof bought his gun, he was passed by NICS.

Worried about the so called "gun show loophole"? Open NICS to the public
We hear a lot of whining about how everyone needs Universal Background Checks and the Gun Show loophole and that sort of bullshit. The facts are that most of those mass murderers bought their guns at gun stores.

The rear end in a top hat that shot up Umpqua? Bought 13 guns over 3 years, all at gun stores. Background checked for each. Apparently he got chaptered out of basic too, so there's that...

Roof bought his gun at a store, see above

Alexis Aaron, the Navy Yard Shooter, bought his shotgun from a store.

Holmes bought his guns at a store.

Cho, the Virginia Tech shooter, bought his guns at a store.

Eliot Rodgers, the Isla Vista beta bought his pistols at a store

Lanza didn't, but his mom did, and registered, and complied with CT's waiting periods and all that jazz. Even had them locked in a safe. He just murdered his mom to get to them, possibly because she was going to have him committed.

B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-but 40% of criminals get their guns from private sales! Nope. Not true. That's based on a study that came out before the background check even was in place in 1995. On top of that, a study from U Chicago just came out that surveyed inmates in for violent crimes and they asked where they got their guns from. 2% said a store. 70% said family or fellow gang members. In IL you have to have a FOID to get ammo, nevermind a gun, so these enterprising lads would have a girlfriend with no rapsheet buy a bunch of guns, report them stolen, and turn them over to the gang. The rest came from street connections such as drug dealers who'd been traded guns for drugs.

Color me shocked that people who can figure out how to get cocaine from Columbia, superlab meth from South America, heroin from the far east and a host of other illegal poo poo including human beings for the sex slave trade are also able to figure out ways around obtaining firearms in order to protect their profits.

So the "gun show loophole isn't really a problem. Criminals state flat out that they don't like buying them from strangers because they worry about stings.

So what can be done? Universal Background Checks aren't a good idea - it doesn't solve the problems listed above, and adds a whole host of new ones because the NICS system currently gets overloaded on busy sales days. Plus, it's really a dick move to whine about people living in food deserts and then make them ride public transit across the county (or in San Francisco or Chicago's case, out of the goddamn city since there's no gun stores there anymore) and find a FFL during business hours, forcing them to take time off from their 3 minimum wage jobs.... etc etc etc to use every possible D&D stereotype about why [proposal x] is racist.

What is a good idea? Open a public, smartphone accessible NICS portal to allow private sellers to prevent unlawful transfers - not perfect but better than nothing and a positive defense against trafficking charges. The Coburn proposal was just that. The same people making GBS threads their pants about how we absolutely had to do something about the gun show loophole and needed UBCs voted in lockstep against it, showing that they really aren't for making improvements, just telling gun owners to gently caress off.

Blah blah blah MENTAL HEALTH
Yeah, it's a trite thing to say and paid a lot of lip service, but something needs to be done. There need to be clear reporting policies for people who are a danger to themselves and others. This is tough because on one hand you don't want to prevent people getting help. On the other hand, Holmes told his therapist about wanting to kill people before Aurora and she sent his journal by snail mail instead of getting the cops out there. Aurora was the result. Lanza was supposedly getting committed. Alexis Aaron had several episodes including hallucinations prior to shooting up the Navy Yard. As did Hauser in the Lafayette Theater shooting. Cho, the Virginia Tech Shooter had court ordered psych evals too. The guy from Umpqua was apparently a sperglord and on several meds as well. Notice a pattern?

And you know there's no way Big loving Pharma is going to allow a study to be done on what kind of psych meds all these crazy fuckers were on when they shot up the place. So the therapists need to be more proactive as they are the early warning system.

Rounding out this giant TL;DR there this
Stopping things before they start
An ounce of prevention, right? Violence interruption work such as what Dr Gary Slutkin does - http://www.ted.com/talks/gary_slutkin_let_s_treat_violence_like_a_contagious_disease/transcript?language=en - this has worked everywhere it's been tried from Chicago to Iraq.

See also Richmond California's efforts which led to a 2/3 reduction of murders - http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2014/06/richmond-california-murder-rate-gun-death - stop likely offenders before they turn into murderers by making them productive members of society. This involves police work and community outreach.

Anyhow, if you don't like this wall of text SMDFTB

If you want to whine about how we need more gun control, here's another wall of text from an actual subject matter expert on firearms, competition shooting, firearms training, best selling author and more. This is most of the standard gun control arguments broken down so ignore the parts that you aren't bitching about.

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:29

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 13:16

BENGHAZI 2: Oct 13, 2007; by Cyrano4747

wasn't sky shark the guy who, back in the day, talked about leaving a gun in his night stand for HOME DEFENSE and then it got stolen

# ? Oct 13, 2015 00:33

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Gunthread II: The Gunnening

«‹›76 »

various cheeses posted:

Who What Now posted:

various cheeses posted:

evilweasel posted:

-Troika- posted:

-Troika- posted:

Popular Thug Drink posted:

Flowers For Algeria posted:

Megaschmoo posted:

Megaschmoo posted:

Armyman25 posted:

Armyman25 posted:

Lemming posted:

Megaschmoo posted:

Flowers For Algeria posted:

evilweasel posted:

Armyman25 posted:

evilweasel posted:

various cheeses posted:

various cheeses posted:

various cheeses posted:

Snowman Crossing posted:

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

Tatum Girlparts posted:

Armyman25 posted:

evilweasel posted:

various cheeses posted:

various cheeses posted:

various cheeses posted:

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Popular Thug Drink posted:

evilweasel posted:

sky shark posted: