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The Ninth Layer posted:The accusations of "Hillary plants" in the crowd are ridiculous to me but I think you would have to be deaf not to notice she had the majority of support in the room. And the majority of questions and speaking time over the next closest person by almost 10%, and almost 50% more than the next closest person it's almost like the DNC and CNN set her up for success or something... skaboomizzy posted:Lincoln Chafee needed a big giant hook to drag him offstage, or a gong, or a bucket of slime, or anything to just make him stop talking. "It was my first day" is not a good excuse for anything. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZlOhSt_qW0
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Oct 14, 2015 22:20
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My Q-Face posted:And the majority of questions and speaking time over the next closest person by almost 10%, and almost 50% more than the next closest person it's almost like the DNC and CNN set her up for success or something... 
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Oct 14, 2015 22:20
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Dan Didio posted:the really harsh gendered attacks against Hillary. Gendered attacks? I think the only thing close to a gendered attack was when people eye-rolled at her "I'm a woman" comparison to Obama. Everything else has been about her switching positions with the polls, changing her positions based on her audience, saying anything to get elected and playing up the fact that she was a woman who was a professional and a mother. .... Wait a second... My Q-Face posted:I think the only thing close to a gendered attack was when people eye-rolled at her "I'm a woman" comparison to Obama. Everything else has been about her switching positions with the polls, changing her positions based on her audience, saying anything to get elected and playing up the fact that she was a woman who was a professional and a mother. Oh poo poo, now I'm doing it!
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Oct 14, 2015 22:27
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#LetWebbSpeak
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Oct 14, 2015 22:39
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literally this big posted:#LetWebbSpeak Counteroffer: promise him the position of Secretary of Veterans Affairs, put him to work where him constantly bringing up Vietnam would be appreciated. 
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Oct 14, 2015 22:48
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Counteroffer: promise him the position of Secretary of Veterans Affairs, put him to work where him constantly bringing up Vietnam would be appreciated. yeah tbh i just saw clinton, sanders, 2 cabinet members, and a guy who showed up to the first day of his campaign
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Oct 14, 2015 22:49
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anime was right posted:yeah tbh i just saw clinton, sanders, 2 cabinet members, and a guy who showed up to the first day of his campaign No, please don't put O'Malley in any kind of position, last thing we need is a stats-juker.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:51
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Absurd Alhazred posted:No, please don't put O'Malley in any kind of position, last thing we need is a stats-juker. i never said i want him to be one, just that i saw one.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:56
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My Q-Face posted:Gendered attacks? I think the only thing close to a gendered attack was when people eye-rolled at her "I'm a woman" comparison to Obama. Everything else has been about her switching positions with the polls, changing her positions based on her audience, saying anything to get elected and playing up the fact that she was a woman who was a professional and a mother. I really hated the way she brought it up that she's a woman. I'm super excited for the day we finally see a female POTUS but being a woman isn't a platform nor is it a reason to vote for someone. It made me a little sad too because she could have brought it up in much more constructive ways but it just came across as pandering to me. She is a woman and that has a tangible impact on her experience and her politics, and that's what I personally wanted to hear from her. I don't think the US electorate is ready for that though, and I can't really fault her for going the route she did because it obviously did appeal to lots of people.
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Oct 14, 2015 23:05
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anime was right posted:yeah tbh i just saw clinton, sanders, 2 cabinet members, and a guy who showed up to the first day of his campaign Who's the guy who showed up, Webb or Chafee? You know, now that I'm over the WTF of the "it was my first vote" answer; gently caress Lincoln Chafee. I mean god drat.
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Oct 14, 2015 23:16
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Everyone should put on Mark Levin to hear his hot take on the debate. "5 of the dumbest people I've ever watched on TV" "No media outlet will question the democrats on the debt because it exposes how they're destroying the country." "Now they're out of the closet socialists. Soon they'll be out of the closet Marxists." "Everyone's asking who won the debate. Who won the debate yesterday? All the people who hate America." some bust on that guy has issued a correction as of 23:24 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 23:21
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Everyone should put on Mark Levin to hear his hot take on the debate. i preferred hannity pulling out a big wad of 20s and throwing them around the studio complaining about how much taxes he pays last night after the debates
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Oct 14, 2015 23:22
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VideoTapir posted:Who's the guy who showed up, Webb or Chafee? His "I have been a rock of granite on the issues!" earlier didn't leave him the obvious out of "I was a Republican who inherited my dad's seat, I didn't wise up until after a term or two."
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Oct 14, 2015 23:24
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Something that seems kinda strange to me is if you look at any of the post debate vids of focus groups or any of the post debate online polls people largely seem to think bernie "won", even for the groups that admitted going into the debate they were planning on supporting hilary and yet most of the morning after articles focused on hilary instead. Not trying to throw on a tinfoil hat here but I'm kind curious as to how the writers decided Hilary came off better despite the general public in any measurable way so far supporting the bern. Seems like if you're going to write a morning after opinion piece the focus groups and online polls would be best to go off of, or do they have other sources?
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Oct 14, 2015 23:54
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There are two victories in every debate, who won over the public and who hit the targets set out for them before hand. Hillary turned in a strong debate performance, hit her marks, and didn't overly offend anyone outside of this forum. Bernie won the people over but his target was completely owning Hillary which obviously didn't happen.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:18
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Raskolnikov38 posted:There are two victories in every debate, who won over the public and who hit the targets set out for them before hand. Hillary turned in a strong debate performance, hit her marks, and didn't overly offend anyone outside of this forum. Bernie won the people over but his target was completely owning Hillary which obviously didn't happen. Bernie wasn't really angling to own Hillary, though? A big part of his campaign when it comes to dealing with opponents is to not attack them, but instead outline his own ideas. Whether that in itself is a good way to do this is up for debate, but since that was his target to begin with, I think he hit the mark there.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:28
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Raskolnikov38 posted:There are two victories in every debate, who won over the public and who hit the targets set out for them before hand. Hillary turned in a strong debate performance, hit her marks, and didn't overly offend anyone outside of this forum. Bernie won the people over but his target was completely owning Hillary which obviously didn't happen. Yeah. The issue is that Bernie needs to decisively win these things if he wants to overcome all of Hillary's advantages, ties wont cut it. There's still two debates before Iowa, lets hope he preps a bit more for them. Even then, Hillary needs to flop on her own, if she pulls the same performance as this debate for the rest it could be pretty bad for Bernie.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:31
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NEED TOILET PAPER posted:Bernie wasn't really angling to own Hillary, though? A big part of his campaign when it comes to dealing with opponents is to not attack them, but instead outline his own ideas. Whether that in itself is a good way to do this is up for debate, but since that was his target to begin with, I think he hit the mark there. The candidates don't set these goals, the pundits and political commentators do.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:46
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NEED TOILET PAPER posted:Bernie wasn't really angling to own Hillary, though? A big part of his campaign when it comes to dealing with opponents is to not attack them, but instead outline his own ideas. Whether that in itself is a good way to do this is up for debate, but since that was his target to begin with, I think he hit the mark there. Hell, I think standing up for her in regards to the email scandal was his form of solidarity. He's said it before, if he doesn't win the nom we should still fight for a continued Democratic presidency.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:47
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VideoTapir posted:You know, now that I'm over the WTF of the "it was my first vote" answer; gently caress Lincoln Chafee. I mean god drat. I was gonna post that Bernie had a great follow-up line to that that was like "yea it was 99 to 1 and I was the one" buuuut it was actually Russ Feingold. Bernie did vote no on that bill but he was in the house at the time.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:52
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I thought Hillary won and Bernie did well. He didn't achieve a break-out moment and he may have missed an opportunity to broaden his support. I don't perceive any damage coming from that. I think there is a real danger that if Bernie started to lose momentum he won't be able to gain it back and that'll be the end of his challenge, but I think he managed to avoid that scenario. He achieved the goal of introducing himself to a larger number of voters, but I'm not sure if he managed to articulate the distinction between himself and the rest of the crowd. On banks in particular, Hillary did a very good job of preventing him from moving to her left by framing her plan as being broader and tougher than his. I think the issue is that Bernie refused to prepare for the debate. He wouldn't do anything but the barest amount of debate prep. Had he done so, he might have been able to more aggressively take her on. Just being smart, righteous, and having a lot of people come to your events doesn't mean you can just roll out of bed and win a debate.
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Oct 15, 2015 01:06
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ArbitraryC posted:Something that seems kinda strange to me is if you look at any of the post debate vids of focus groups or any of the post debate online polls people largely seem to think bernie "won", even for the groups that admitted going into the debate they were planning on supporting hilary and yet most of the morning after articles focused on hilary instead. Not trying to throw on a tinfoil hat here but I'm kind curious as to how the writers decided Hilary came off better despite the general public in any measurable way so far supporting the bern. Seems like if you're going to write a morning after opinion piece the focus groups and online polls would be best to go off of, or do they have other sources? Drop the tin foil hat. Every single metric that doesn't involve online polls and TV-centric focus groups points to a decent Clinton win/performance and that's really all she needed to do. She exceeded expectations. Bernie came off as non-presidential. It's hilarious that people are actually bringing up a Luntz Foxnews focus group as evidence that Bernie won the debate.
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Oct 15, 2015 01:14
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By what metric did Hilary win though, literally every focus group on every news agency thought bernie won, including loving fox news, and while online polls do tend to favor fringe candidates bernie wrecked those too. Obviously we should wait for the more scientifically robust polls and focus groups before making conclusions but I think there's significantly more evidence suggesting that people thought bernie came across as a passionate populist and hilary came across as a plastic politician. It just seems dumb to keep repeating "hilary won" based off nothing other than a bunch of suit wearing white people clapping at one of Bernie's first major events that exposed him to people who weren't already following his campaign.
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Oct 15, 2015 01:19
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Mitt Romney posted:Drop the tin foil hat. I saw at least 3 vids of focus groups from different news agencies and each time they were feeling the bern. Adjectives used to describe him were "strong, sincere, passionate, powerful", goons are being way too cynical about him coming across as an angry old man, he came across as someone who cared.
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Oct 15, 2015 01:22
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ArbitraryC posted:By what metric did Hilary win though, literally every focus group on every news agency thought bernie won, including loving fox news, and while online polls do tend to favor fringe candidates bernie wrecked those too. Obviously we should wait for the more scientifically robust polls and focus groups before making conclusions but I think there's significantly more evidence suggesting that people thought bernie came across as a passionate populist and hilary came across as a plastic politician. It just seems dumb to keep repeating "hilary won" based off nothing other than a bunch of suit wearing white people clapping at one of Bernie's first major events that exposed him to people who weren't already following his campaign. Here is the only scientific poll put out so far - http://www.oann.com/dncdebate/ (spoilers: Hillary won by a lot)
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Oct 15, 2015 01:26
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ArbitraryC posted:By what metric did Hilary win though, literally every focus group on every news agency thought bernie won, including loving fox news, and while online polls do tend to favor fringe candidates bernie wrecked those too. Obviously we should wait for the more scientifically robust polls and focus groups before making conclusions but I think there's significantly more evidence suggesting that people thought bernie came across as a passionate populist and hilary came across as a plastic politician. It just seems dumb to keep repeating "hilary won" based off nothing other than a bunch of suit wearing white people clapping at one of Bernie's first major events that exposed him to people who weren't already following his campaign. favor is a pretty underwhelming word for how much online polls favor people like bernie and ron paul (i am not equating the two, but they have significant amounts of millennials/tech users as their base)
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Oct 15, 2015 01:27
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Just in case this hasn't been linked yet:Thump! posted::bernget:
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Oct 15, 2015 01:28
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seriously tho, i dont really see the problem with the debate, they both did well, hillary was more polished, if bernie was better prepared and had the sort of answers he did later on for early on in the debate. not necessarily rehearsed, but he knew his stance, he could have pulled out a win for sure. he also needs to point out policy differences of his opponent for them, even if he doesn't attack them for it. "clinton, on record, has done x, or is supported by y. i'd like to hear how she plans on balancing this". question her into a hole. make her embarrass herself without ever attacking her.
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Oct 15, 2015 01:30
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forhorglingrads posted:Just in case this hasn't been linked yet: "Bernie Sanders won by every conceivable metric except one: actual polls"
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Oct 15, 2015 01:34
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A Neurotic Jew posted:Here is the only scientific poll put out so far - Despite that a later question on who would you vote for has Bernie at only 8% behind her.
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Oct 15, 2015 01:36
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A Neurotic Jew posted:"Bernie Sanders won by every conceivable metric except one: actual polls" Think you need to take out the s there, you linked one poll (though I do appreciate it) and even in the one you linked it was a pretty narrow split in votes between the candidates and largely everyone thought bernie did well too. I'll be interested in seeing more as they come out.
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Oct 15, 2015 01:47
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Super Ninja Fish posted:"Now they're out of the closet socialists. Soon they'll be out of the closet Marxists." I wish Sanders had used Marxist dialectic to explain why he isn't a Capitalist. Thus causing the Class Consciousness of the viewing public to skyrocket.
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Oct 15, 2015 02:27
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:I wish Sanders had used Marxist dialectic to explain why he isn't a Capitalist. Thus causing the Class Consciousness of the viewing public to skyrocket. yeah but if you dont watch the militancy then you get a billion anarcho-liberals rebels everywhere
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Oct 15, 2015 02:29
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In Chafee's defense he was apparently appointed to the position to fill a vacancy? So he shows up, first day, and he's a republican and all the republicans tell him , "we are all voting for this" and he does. Also his dad had just died you jerks.
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Oct 15, 2015 02:31
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CNN literally had an old dude on TV say, "maybe this country needs a little socialism" if that isn't moving the Overton window I'm not sure what is. It's only the first debate and Bernie has a pretty good record so far of improving his delivery and conceptualizing his platform.
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Oct 15, 2015 02:33
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NotWearingPants posted:In Chafee's defense he was apparently appointed to the position to fill a vacancy? So he shows up, first day, and he's a republican and all the republicans tell him , "we are all voting for this" and he does. He's never walking that back. He will always be remembered as "Homer Simpson Joins the Navy" dude, or the "grade-school excuser". Add that to his extremely uninspiring mannerisms, and he's even more done for than he was, which was a lot. I mean, do you really think that someone who's never heard of him is more likely to choose him after this performance? No. He had one chance to actually get widespread coverage, and he blew it.
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Oct 15, 2015 02:36
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Absurd Alhazred posted:He's never walking that back. He will always be remembered as "Homer Simpson Joins the Navy" dude, or the "grade-school excuser". Add that to his extremely uninspiring mannerisms, and he's even more done for than he was, which was a lot. It's pretty impressive that 2 candidates had complete blowouts last night
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Oct 15, 2015 02:37
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So, this was played during the debate in some swing states last night: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nghazi-victims/ 
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Oct 15, 2015 02:37
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My Q-Face posted:So, this was played during the debate in some swing states last night: what was tim geithner doing in lybia????
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Oct 15, 2015 02:39
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Raskolnikov38 posted:yeah but if you dont watch the militancy then you get a billion anarcho-liberals rebels everywhere Plus what the Hell kind of question was that anyways? Nobody who believes in capitalism actually calls themselves a "capitalist." That would be like me saying I'm a Commissar.
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Oct 15, 2015 02:41
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