CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

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Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

crowoutofcontext posted:

http://ipolitics.ca/2015/11/11/tepid-tom-the-new-democrats-survey-the-wreckage/

Oh wow, some NDP finally decided to be self-aware today, albeit one member anonymously. They still won't let go of PM Mulcair idea.

LOL at "unlikely"

On the subject of "what went wrong"? I think the following article is easily the best analysis of the NDP's defeat. It expresses several points that I've found myself struggling to articulate.

quote:

Untangling the #hashtagfail-lings of the NDP campaign
BY NORA LORETO | OCTOBER 28, 2015

There's been an awful lot written about the NDP's election performance, and the errors were so seemingly obvious, that most of the analysis coalesces around the same narrative: the party has swung too far to the right. That�s true, but it's only part of the story.

The NDP lost almost 30 per cent of the voter share they won in 2015 (almost 1 million votes). Anyone who was inspired to vote for the first time most likely voted Liberal: their vote share increased by 60 per cent, or just over 4 million votes. The Conservatives' vote remained stable and the Bloc vote decreased. Despite this, the Conservatives and the Bloc managed to significantly increase their support in Quebec.

Would a more left-wing NDP have been more successful?

Maybe, but this isn't the right question. In fact, this question is so theoretical that it leads progressive pundits into the territory of fantasy writing. The Left is already dangerously disconnected from average people: we need a better understanding of where the NDP is to be able to know what needs to happen to get the party to be "further left."

The NDP doesn't currently have the capacity to be much more progressive than they were during this election. Many of the folks who analyzed the failures of the NDP hung their theses on the assumption that being progressive is something that can be switched on and off at party HQ.

Progressive politics must be built, not announced. Systems were in motion for too long for the NDP to have been able to change course for this election.

The NDP didn't drift to the centre when it promised to balance the budget, or when it elected Mulcair as leader. As many have pointed out, the NDP's centrism is part of a decades-long slide that has ravished all aspects of the left, not just mainstream political parties.

The Liberals, as one of two governing parties in Ottawa, have the luxury to turn left or right at the whims of central command. They don't need to be in direct contact with their members. They can change their policies with the predictions of the pollsters and they won't be punished. In fact, they'll be lauded, if the gamble pays off.
The principal failure of the NDP was to form a strategy premised on the notion that they had this ability too. But they aren't the Liberals. They probably would have been skewered by the press if they had promised to run a $30 billion deficit.

It was the combination of a failure to communicate a progressive vision that was firm enough to convince Canadians that the NDP could beat Harper, and a failure of organizing between elections that sank the NDP.
Imagine if the NDP had organized its MPs to vocally oppose the Values Charter during the 2014 Quebec election. Imagine if they had allowed more of their MPs to intervene publicly on debates. Imagine if the party worked closer with social movement organizations and labour between 2011 and 2015 to build a relationship to withstand the fragility of poll-based politics.

Imagine if Angry Tom had made an appearance. Indeed, there is currency in a politician who is comfortable in his own skin, something that Mulcair didn't quite project during the 11-week campaign.

Where were the YouTube ad buys, the clever commercials and the risks that were taken in 2011? Why was the Pharmacare promise announced as if it were accidentally leaked by a backroom operative?

When the NDP announced it would run a balanced budget, where was the communications strategy addressing the resistance they should have anticipated? Who thought leading with announcing a balanced budget was a good idea? Was no one in the war room from Quebec who could have said "Um, guys, d�ficit z�ro won't play super well among progressives in that province..."

Why didn't the party assume that the knives would come out for them from the mainstream press the second there was a whiff that the NDP might form government?

The NDP's communications strategy should have anticipated these problems. It should have been bold and creative. It should have taken risks. It should have been sensitive to sentiment on the ground and acted accordingly. Instead, it was as if party operatives figured that they could win the election by hiding under some coats and hope that no one noticed when the laundry was brought into the PMO by an unwitting caretaker.

The #hashtagfail of a communications strategy was a shame for many reasons. It cost the party many talented MPs, especially the young Quebecers who proved that mainstream politics in Canada don't have to be a game limited to old men. It helped the Liberals create the false narrative that their plan outflanked the NDP platform to the left even though it didn't by any measure.

(Of course, collateral damage from the failed ONDP campaign in 2014 helped fuel this narrative, but that could have been managed as well. At the very least, that should have been anticipated and addressed through the national strategy.)

It was also a shame because it failed to communicate that the NDP was offering a platform that was more progressive than their 2011 platform; that Canadians would see new, national programs built (eventually...the two-term requirement was another strategic fail), get help for childcare (unless you're in Quebec...another strategic fail) and have your minimum wage increased (if you worked among the lowest-paid in the federally regulated industries). The promises were by no means bold, but they were better than both the Liberals' promises and the previous election's NDP platform.

While some pundits have incorrectly conflated "the left" with the NDP, this election truly was a win for progressive politics. Average people wanted Harper stopped. Average people wanted change. And, even though the change they chose was represented by the corruption-plagued, neo-Liberal Party of Canada, things are instantly better for millions of Canadians. At the very least, millions of Canadians can breathe easier knowing that the governing party is no longer radically (and in some cases religiously) opposed to their existence.

This is little comfort for the thousands of NDP activists who donated 11 weeks of their lives to this loss, and I think any analysis of the failures of the NDP campaign has to recognize their good work. It's time for the NDP's central command to be re-connected with the campaign doorknockers, the phone bankers, campaign managers and candidates, their families and friends, their co-workers, sports teammates, members of their places of worship and neighbours.

Enough with the insularist politicking. Leave that game to the ones who invented it. If the NDP wants to be the party of the left, it really needs to start acting like one.

Like this article? rabble is reader-supported journalism. Chip in to keep stories like these coming.

Unfortunately changing strategy in the direction she advocates is almost impossible to imagine under the current leadership...

# ? Nov 12, 2015 18:40

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# ? May 13, 2024 21:39

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Why do I have a terrible feeling the thread is gonna be hijacked by people pointlessly dogpiling do it ironically's posts? Please read his user name and move on folks.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 18:41

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Helsing posted:

Why do I have a terrible feeling the thread is gonna be hijacked by people pointlessly dogpiling do it ironically's posts? Please read his user name and move on folks.

As tedious as that would be, it's still slightly more novel than yet again covering where the NDP went wrong and what they should do differently 3 years in the future. Speaking of the Liberal media though, I thought this was cute.

If the media reported on Harper�s first day like they reported on Trudeau�s

quote:

February 7, 2006

We�ve always known Canada is super-awesome, but freshly sworn-in Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his inspiring cast of cabinet ministers have given us a brand new batch of reasons to be proud!

For starters, Harper�s slimmed-down cabinet consists of a svelte 27 ministers, down from the bloated 39 under the previous government. Harper apparently thinks the number of people in cabinet should be dictated by the needs of the country, not the needs of politicians who want jobs. What a concept!

Perhaps we should start calling Harper the �feminist-in-chief� because six of his cabinet ministers � nearly a quarter � are women, a number that puts him well ahead of President George W. Bush (4) and Prime Minister Tony Blair of the UK (5). These female ministers aren�t just stodgy old grandmas either � the new minister of the environment, Rona Ambrose, is only 37! And we think she totally rocks a leather jacket! You go, girls!

A ton of history was made with this cabinet � Bev Oda, the new minister of heritage is the first Canadian of Japanese descent to ever get elected to parliament, and Harper�s already made her a cabinet minister. Sorry if you can�t handle having an Asian woman as minister of Canadian heritage, but it�s 2006 � the face of Canada is changing, get used to it! And get this � in addition to her duties as minister of heritage, Oda has also been given the title of minister for �the status of women.� Canada actually has a minister exclusively devoted to looking after the interests of women! How cool is that?

Check out some of these other firsts as well. For the first time in Canadian history, the Senate majority leader is a Conservative woman, Marjory LeBreton. The minister of intergovernmental affairs, Michael Chong, is the first person of color to hold that job (Chong is bi-racial, the son of immigrants from China and Holland � we think he looks classically Canadian!). The new attorney general, Victor Toews, is an immigrant himself, from Paraguay, making him the highest-ranking Latino politician in Canadian history!

But while it�s great to focus on all the diversity this new cabinet contains, don�t think for a minute this team isn�t super qualified as well. The new defense minister, Gordon O�Connor, for example, is a former brigadier-general in the Canadian army who helped stare-down the Soviets in West Germany during the Cold War. What a badasss! Attorney General Toews is one of Manitoba�s top lawyers, and the trade minister is the former CEO of three different corporations.

Prime Minister Harper himself, however, is just an ordinary guy. Unlike the last few prime ministers, he didn�t come from a rich family or have a bunch of insider connections. He was driven to his inauguration in a minivan! Heck, he still personally drops off his kids at school! And just check out this totes adorbs photo of him cuddling a little kitty!

Canadians across the country are breathing a sigh of relief following last month�s general election. After over a dozen years of rule by the corrupt and divisive Liberal Party, and their secretive, authoritarian regime of paranoia and fear-mongering, we now finally have a government that once again represents traditional Canadian values of dignity, fairness, and respect for democracy.

By the way, the new government�s first planned piece of legislation? It�s called the �Federal Accountability Act� and it outlaws corporate donations to political parties, places a five-year ban on ex-politicians who want to work as lobbyists, and grants greater legal protections to whistleblowers � among many, many other great things.

Lift your head up high today Canada � our country is back!

# ? Nov 12, 2015 18:55

Whiskey Sours: Jan 25, 2014; Weather proof.

crowoutofcontext posted:

http://ipolitics.ca/2015/11/11/tepid-tom-the-new-democrats-survey-the-wreckage/

Oh wow, some NDP finally decided to be self-aware today, albeit one member anonymously. They still won't let go of PM Mulcair idea.

LOL at "unlikely"

Wow, Craig Scott is still really mad about this.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 18:56

Jordan7hm: Feb 17, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

Ikantski posted:

Prime Minister Harper himself, however, is just an ordinary guy. Unlike the last few prime ministers, he didn�t come from a rich family or have a bunch of insider connections. He was driven to his inauguration in a minivan! Heck, he still personally drops off his kids at school! And just check out this totes adorbs photo of him cuddling a little kitty!

I remember many, many articles about this.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 18:59

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Ikantski posted:

As tedious as that would be, it's still slightly more novel than yet again covering where the NDP went wrong and what they should do differently 3 years in the future. Speaking of the Liberal media though, I thought this was cute.

If the media reported on Harper�s first day like they reported on Trudeau�s

That's kind of the point though, isn't it? By the time an election campaign rolls around you can't change your fundamental strategy. The time to change courses is precisely the three to five year period before the election.

And I understand my particular pet peeves and interests aren't going to be interesting to everyone, or that they get tedious after you hear them the fifth or tenth time, so by all means post articles or comments that move the thread in a different direction, but please don't do it by indulging some white noise poster's complaints about the immigrant gang wars that are soon going to drown our beautiful country in blood.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:13

crowoutofcontext: Nov 12, 2006

Helsing posted:

On the subject of "what went wrong"? I think the following article is easily the best analysis of the NDP's defeat. It expresses several points that I've found myself struggling to articulate.

Unfortunately changing strategy in the direction she advocates is almost impossible to imagine under the current leadership...

Yeah, I don't understand if the NDP really has a large enough group of silent doubters to really create the type of direction change the article suggests. After Layton's death and during the leadership race the party seemed in the same zone that the CPC seems to be in now-a party composed of several differing groups vying for power. I don't really get enough hints of that being the case this time around.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:20

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Syrian refugees will integrate much better than Somalian refugees, I think, because Syria was, until recently, not a complete shithole. Somalia has been everything from "almost a complete shithole" to "a complete and utter, nigh-unsalvageable shithole" for longer than I've been alive.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:20

a primate: Jun 2, 2010

PT6A posted:

Syrian refugees will integrate much better than Somalian refugees, I think, because Syria was, until recently, not a complete shithole. Somalia has been everything from "almost a complete shithole" to "a complete and utter, nigh-unsalvageable shithole" for longer than I've been alive.

Sounds like they'll both fit right in :haw:

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:30

Do it ironically: Jul 13, 2010; by Pragmatica

The biggest gang problem in Calgary is Somalian refugees who refuse to integrate into society, shootings, killings, drug deals, it's a real problem, I personally don't see anything wrong with having a xenophobic country model, we don't even have a plan for when we bring in these refugees, it's all just for political points, let's take care of our own country first.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:38

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

JJ McCullough is such a loving baby.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:41

Lain Iwakura: Aug 5, 2004; The body exists only to verify one's own existence.; Taco Defender

Do it ironically posted:

The biggest gang problem in Calgary is Somalian refugees who refuse to integrate into society, shootings, killings, drug deals, it's a real problem, I personally don't see anything wrong with having a xenophobic country model, we don't even have a plan for when we bring in these refugees, it's all just for political points, let's take care of our own country first.

I'll bite.

Let's take care of our own country first? Great. Let's start by fixing the infrastructure problems on native reserves, getting the CHMC back into building cooperative housing projects so we can get people out of the hellhole that is the current housing market, and then let's fix the homelessness problem.

You're not racist at all I am sure.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:42

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

If you'll also remember, Stephen Harper shook his son's hand on his first day of school rather than giving him a hug. What a loving monster.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:42

Do it ironically: Jul 13, 2010; by Pragmatica

OSI bean dip posted:

I'll bite.

Let's take care of our own country first? Great. Let's start by fixing the infrastructure problems on native reserves, getting the CHMC back into building cooperative housing projects so we can get people out of the hellhole that is the current housing market, and then let's fix the homelessness problem.

You're not racist at all I am sure.

We have so many problems in our own country, in Alberta we're going to have our largest deficit ever, federally we are going to be running a deficit to attempt to boost the economy, now we're going to start bringing in more refugees on top of what we currently allocate, that is just going to cost more money, we can't even get a grip on what's here, why are we trying to fix other people's problems.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:47

crowoutofcontext: Nov 12, 2006

I know DII is a troll but the anti-Syrian refugee poo poo is really bothering me, I keep seeing this callous non-retort shared by people on my FB page.

Of course, by peeps who never before seemed concerned with the local homeless. Its useless reasoning with them without being cast as a bleeding-heart idealist.

Romeo Dallaire, argued quite eloquently for taking in more Syrians, outlining their background and comparing them to the Hungarian and Vietnam refugees that ended up contributing to Canada considerably. Should resort to posting his Power&Politics talk next time i see stuff like this, I have yet to meet a Canadian, right or left, who doesn't admire Dallaire.

crowoutofcontext fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Nov 12, 2015

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:49

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Do it ironically posted:

We have so many problems in our own country

Stop electing Conservatives then fucko

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:51

Fried Watermelon: Dec 29, 2008

The people complaining about refugees literally do nothing to help their own country regardless.

Ask them how they take care of their own country and they tell you it's not their problem it's the government.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:51

Wistful of Dollars: Aug 25, 2009

Labrador MP suggests using Labrador base as processing/housing site. Frankly not a bad idea but I can't imagine what people from Syria will think when they get to Labrador in the winter. Talk about culture shock.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:52

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Trolls can play this thread like it's Baby's First Piano.

Pictured below, forums poster do it ironically posts in the CanPol thread.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:52

Beelzebufo: Mar 5, 2015; Frog puns are toadally awesome

Helsing, not only best poster, also prescient about terrible derails.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:53

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; I've been here the whole time, and you're not my real Dad!

Do it ironically posted:

The biggest gang problem in Calgary is Somalian refugees who refuse to integrate into society, shootings, killings, drug deals, it's a real problem, I personally don't see anything wrong with having a xenophobic country model, we don't even have a plan for when we bring in these refugees, it's all just for political points, let's take care of our own country first.

Immigrants! Taking all the raps and shooting all the Jobs!

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:53

Do it ironically: Jul 13, 2010; by Pragmatica

All you people do on here when given a differing opinion is use fallacious rhetoric instead of trying to explain why you disagree, explain to me why with so many problems, and huge deficits all over the country we should be taking on even more refugees on top of what we already do, I for one do not think it's fair to the actual citizens of Canada.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:55

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Helsing posted:

That's kind of the point though, isn't it? By the time an election campaign rolls around you can't change your fundamental strategy. The time to change courses is precisely the three to five year period before the election.

And I understand my particular pet peeves and interests aren't going to be interesting to everyone, or that they get tedious after you hear them the fifth or tenth time, so by all means post articles or comments that move the thread in a different direction, but please don't do it by indulging some white noise poster's complaints about the immigrant gang wars that are soon going to drown our beautiful country in blood.

Maybe it's a good thing that the party that officially communicates via buzzfeed articles did not get power?

Being the 3rd place left wing party is too big a risk in FPTP. Libs grab the center left with a huge seat-vote %, cons grab the center right to far right with an even seat-vote % and NDP get the people who didn't vote green or spoil their ballot. There aren't enough voters on the far left, Canadians want to feel progressive, not be progressive. Your strategy depends on the rules of the game so I'd wait and see what the Libs change. In this election, the strategy was to be not Harper and they bungled that up by promising to balance the budget. The NDP were only in the race to begin with because Trudeau was Harper-ish on C-51 but I think it was correct to go for the center vote. Can't change poo poo if you're not in power etc.

Hopefully PR or another system that helps ensure vote-seat consistency will let them safely move a bit left but it also means we'll never, ever see a NDP majority which I'm alright with, majorities are the worst.

OSI bean dip posted:

I'll bite.

Let's take care of our own country first? Great. Let's start by fixing the infrastructure problems on native reserves

Wait aren't native reserves supposed to be their own nations?

Do it ironically posted:

We have so many problems in our own country, in Alberta we're going to have our largest deficit ever, federally we are going to be running a deficit to attempt to boost the economy, now we're going to start bringing in more refugees on top of what we currently allocate, that is just going to cost more money, we can't even get a grip on what's here, why are we trying to fix other people's problems.

I don't think his deficit is an attempt to boost the economy.

quote:

Investments would focus on three areas: public transit, social infrastructure such as affordable housing and seniors centres and "green" projects like clean energy infrastructure.

Helsing posted:

Trolls can play this thread like it's Baby's First Piano.

I thought you were wrong, I really did. You were right.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:56

Arabian Jesus: Feb 15, 2008; We've got the American Jesus
Bolstering national faith

We've got the American Jesus
Overwhelming millions every day

Do it ironically posted:

We have so many problems in our own country, in Alberta we're going to have our largest deficit ever, federally we are going to be running a deficit to attempt to boost the economy, now we're going to start bringing in more refugees on top of what we currently allocate, that is just going to cost more money, we can't even get a grip on what's here, why are we trying to fix other people's problems.

25000 refugees works out to about 0.07 per cent of the total population, I'm sure the sky wont fall.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 19:59

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

Ikantski posted:

Maybe it's a good thing that the party that officially communicates via buzzfeed articles did not get power?

That was indefensibly effing bonkers.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 20:02

Ming the Merciless: Aug 10, 2005; You're a beard with an idiot hanging off of it.

crowoutofcontext posted:

I know DII is a troll but the anti-Syrian refugee poo poo is really bothering me, I keep seeing this callous non-retort shared by people on my FB page.

Of course, by peeps who never before seemed concerned with the local homeless. Its useless reasoning with them without being cast as a bleeding-heart idealist.

Romeo Dallaire, argued quite eloquently for taking in more Syrians, outlining their background and comparing them to the Hungarian and Vietnam refugees that ended up contributing to Canada considerably. Should resort to posting his Power&Politics talk next time i see stuff like this, I have yet to meet a Canadian, right or left, who doesn't admire Dallaire.

Do you have a link to this? I'm trying to find it but not having much luck.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 20:03

MA-Horus: Dec 3, 2006; I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

crowoutofcontext posted:

I have yet to meet a Canadian, right or left, who doesn't admire Dallaire.

Have you met Cultural Imperial?

Dallaire is obviously evil because he once wore a uniform. Same with Chris Hatfield.

Then again, CI is literal human garbage who's posting has gotten much better since I've been using that script.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 20:07

Legit Businessman: Sep 2, 2007

Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Sep 9, 2022

# ? Nov 12, 2015 20:31

CLAM DOWN: Feb 13, 2007

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/robyn-urback-justin-trudeaus-pdas-are-making-things-uncomfortable-for-some-of-us

quote:

Robyn Urback: Brace yourselves � four more years of PM PDAs

Nearly everyone who has been on a double date understands the discomfort of sitting opposite another couple who, for some reason, insists on holding hands, or stroking arms, or sneaking kisses during a meal. It�s a scene that is utterly perplexing to socially awkward, stoical types such as myself, who can�t fathom why two people would want to stroke each other�s hair in front of an audience. In my mind I�m imploring the couple to just keep their hands to themselves, but all I can do outwardly is smile like an idiot and chew my salad while I try not to stare at the rainfall of dandruff that has now settled upon the table.

I am vexed to think that this same type of discomfort now waits for me at each event involving Canada�s new prime minister, who is surely the huggiest head of government this nation has ever seen. There were signs early on in the campaign: a bear hug for Calgary Mayor Naheed Nenshi, a warm embrace and forehead touch with residential school survivor Elder Evelyn Commanda-Dewache, plenty of arms-around-shoulders and even the occasional peck from supporters along the campaign trail. But I don�t think any of us � and surely not those among us who would, say, force a loud cough in the presence of a couple making out on the subway � could have anticipated how much naked affection this new regime would usher in.

For one, there was the Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers embrace between Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Ontario Premier Kathleen Wynne at the foot of Queen�s Park last month, which would have only been more passionate if �The Way You Look Tonight� started playing from someone�s iPhone. There was the procession of hugs and kisses during the swearing-in ceremony on Nov. 4 (22 hugs and 32 kisses, to be exact, according to a tally by Maclean�s magazine), coupled with several extended periods of close-talking, which disciples of the Seinfeld theory of social interaction understand to be among the cardinal sins of comfortable discourse. And there have been the somewhat fleeting, yet frequent, expressions of love and affection between Trudeau and his wife, Sophie Gregoire-Trudeau, which is at once lovely to see � no really, it is � and at the same time harkens me back to that uncomfortable spot chomping my salad awkwardly on the worst type of double-date.

No doubt the contrast to the rather emotionally detached days of former prime minister Stephen Harper is part of the reason why many of us have started to take notice. Whereas Harper and his wife, Laureen, held hands and exchanged polite pecks at appropriate moments � as politicians are supposed to do � Sophie and Justin touch their hands to their hearts and stare longingly at each other from podium to floor, almost as if there aren�t millions of people watching (or else, maybe because they are). Remember when Harper famously shook son Ben�s hand before sending him off to school? Compare that with the current prime minister and his wife, who capped off their recent speech to 16,000 students in Ottawa with a sweep-you-off-your-feet, romantic-comedy movie star kiss.

It�s quite possible that these effervescent public displays of affection are merely calculated facets of the Trudeau brand, intended to feed the notion of a kinder, sunnier government. Indeed, ubiquitous hugging has a way of instantly humanizing the hugger. For what it�s worth, though, I think these PDAs are more a product of Trudeau-the-man than Trudeau-the-politician, which just means we have four more years of staring awkwardly at our shoes while we wait for the prime minister and the minister of International Trade to finally let go of each other�s hands, or for our huggy head of government and his wife to stop making out. Or will that just be me?

Is...is this satire?

:negative:

# ? Nov 12, 2015 20:35

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

CLAM DOWN posted:

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/robyn-urback-justin-trudeaus-pdas-are-making-things-uncomfortable-for-some-of-us

Is...is this satire?

What disorder makes people feel this way? I know people on the autism spectrum can sometimes be baffled by any sort of signs of affection and be driven to rage or just confusion from it.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 20:39

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

It's new and different so therefore it's something we should be afraid of. Like Indigenous people having rights, or scientists talking on the radio.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 20:42

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

Drunk, high, sneezing, whatever. Do the crime, do the time.

Specifically to self-defence, I would do whatever I felt reasonably necessary to stop the threat against me. Depending on how I went about this, I would in fact be breaking the law and would be indicted (conviction is unlikely, unless you essentially murder someone) as such.

Feel free to please cite examples of vehicular murder/homicide from canlii in the past 5 years where people actually get incarcerated for a significant period of time.

You seem to live in a perfect world where there are no repeat offenders for any crime, please send me your postal code so I can live there.

Let's look at our harsh penalties for what is supposed to be societies most serious crime, murder or homicide.

quote:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/06/19/guilty-verdict-in-costco-crash-that-killed-two-girls.html

LONDON, ONT.�The father of a six-year-old girl has forgiven the woman who was convicted Friday of dangerous driving that killed his daughter and her newborn sister in a crash at a Costco store in London, Ont.

�I can�t even imagine what she�s feeling,� Eric Hall said of Ruth Burger, 66, who pleaded not guilty to two counts of criminal negligence causing death and two counts of criminal negligence causing bodily harm in the case.
A judge convicted Burger of the lesser charges of dangerous driving causing death and dangerous driving causing bodily harm.

quote:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/ruth-burger-costco-crash-sentencing-probation-1.3280494

Ruth Burger, the driver who struck and killed a young girl and newborn baby at a London, Ont., Costco store entrance, received a suspended sentence Tuesday.

Burger was sentenced to probation, community service and a driving ban.

Marco Muzzo will likely get the same harsh penalty, a driving ban.

Somebody fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Sep 9, 2022

# ? Nov 12, 2015 20:59

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Oh my god it gets even worse.

The Province posted:

�Sex and pain sometimes go together�: Judge faces possible career ruin over rape trial comments

EDMONTON � Robin Camp�s career rise after immigrating to Canada had been quick, even meteoric: He was named an Alberta provincial court judge in 2012, with just 13 years at the provincial bar following decades as a lawyer in South Africa and Botswana. Three years later, last June 26, he was promoted again, to the Federal Court of Canada.

Now, he faces career ruin, fighting for his job in the face of a complaint to the Canadian Judicial Council of a sexual assault trial he heard in September, 2014.

A transcript reveals an entire trial �threaded through� with Camp�s outdated � and sometimes illegal � interpretation of Canadian sexual assault law, according to the four law professors who launched the complaint against Camp.

The professors, from Dalhousie University and the University of Calgary, argue the proceedings abounded with �myths,� �stereotypes,� and an alarming degree of bias from the bench, and warned that the judge has thrown the entire Canadian justice system �into disrepute.�

�This was not a case of mere judicial error,� reads the complaint. At many points, Camp�s biases constituted an open defiance of Canadian law, they say.

Section 276 of the Criminal Code explicitly forbids a court from hearing evidence of a victim�s prior sexual history in order to determine whether they are �more likely to have consented to the sexual activity that forms the subject-matter of the charge.�

Nevertheless, at trial Camp allowed the defence attorney to question the victim about whether she had been flirting with attendees at the Calgary house party before the alleged assault occurred � and whether �she was physically able to deal with� a possible rapist.

�The law doesn�t stop people thinking,� Camp told Crown prosecutor Hyatt Mograbee when she raised one of many objections during the trial.

At another point, he refers to Section 276 as �very, very incursive legislation.�

According to transcripts, Camp also said that since the complainant was drunk, there was an �onus on her to be more careful.� He referred to the alleged rape as a �misbehav[iour]� on the part of the accused.

If the homeless 19-year-old victim had truly been frightened of her 240-lb. alleged rapist as events unfolded in a bathroom on December, 2011, Camp said, wouldn�t she have screamed?

Perhaps the accused had been a little rough, but �sex is very often a challenge,� the judge told prosecutors.

And when the victim said the experience had been physically painful, Camp countered that a bit of vaginal pain was perfectly natural.

�Sex and pain sometimes go together, that � that�s not necessarily a bad thing,� he said.

The accused, Alexander Wagar of Calgary, ultimately walked free with a warning not to �upset women and get into trouble.� The case is now set to be retried after it was decisively overturned on appeal.

The transcript, which has since been carefully examined by Camp�s critics, is notable for the often-combative tone that Camp takes with Mograbee.

The complainant had at one point asked her alleged assailant if he had a condom, which Camp said had led him to the �inescapable conclusion� that the woman had wanted sex.

When Mograbee tried to object, Camp shot back �please, Ms. Mograbee, we�re grown ups here.�

At another point, Mograbee said the judge was exercising �antiquated thinking� in asserting that the complainant�s story was less believable since she had not immediately reported the alleged rape to authorities.

�I hope you don�t live too long, Ms. Mograbee,� he responded.

When Wagar took the stand, Camp delivered a lengthy speech advising the accused to tell his friends �that they have to be far more gentle with women.�

�To protect themselves, they have to be very careful,� he said. �You�ve got to be really sure that she�s saying yes � so remind yourself every time that you get involved with a girl from now on and tell your friends, okay?�

Before proceedings had even wrapped, the judge was openly speculating that the complainant had concocted the charge out of spite.

�Is there not a possibility that a very unhappy thing happened here? Two young people made love, and somebody came afterwards and poisoned the girl�s mind?� he said.

The G&M posted:

At the time of the sexual-assault trial, he was a member of the Alberta Provincial Court. In June, Conservative justice minister Peter MacKay promoted him to the Federal Court of Canada, which pays $308,600 annually. The provincial court job pays $263,731.

Under federal rules for such appointments, Mr. MacKay would not have needed a recommendation from an impartial judicial advisory committee because Judge Camp was already a member of a lower court. Judge Camp was among the last judges the Conservative government appointed before it called the Oct. 19 election.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 21:06

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

THC posted:

Oh my god it gets even worse.

quote:

At another point, Mograbee said the judge was exercising �antiquated thinking� in asserting that the complainant�s story was less believable since she had not immediately reported the alleged rape to authorities.

�I hope you don�t live too long, Ms. Mograbee,� he responded.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh how has be not been disbarred.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 21:08

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

jm20 posted:

Feel free to please cite examples of vehicular murder/homicide from canlii in the past 5 years where people actually get incarcerated for a significant period of time.

Hey, there was one pretty much in my backyard today. Fuckin' dentists.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/christy-natsis-gets-5-year-sentence-for-impaired-dangerous-driving-in-2011-crash-1.3315363

Edit: "She also faces a four-year driving ban that starts now, not after her sentence is complete." Hey legal guy, what's the legal ideal behind that? Just anticipating she'll be out early?

Postess with the Mostest fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Nov 12, 2015

# ? Nov 12, 2015 21:12

Jordan7hm: Feb 17, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

It's not easy to get rid of federal judges in Canada. This is generally probably a good thing.

^^^^ she is loving awful. No admission of responsibility whatsoever.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 21:14

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

This is probably the most appalling case of lovely drunk driving convictions I've seen.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/driver-who-killed-2-winnipeg-girls-in-drunken-crash-gets-2-year-jail-sentence-1.3142772

# ? Nov 12, 2015 21:17

Gorau: Apr 28, 2008

I just can't understand the xenophobia that so many Canadians have, or the rabid fear of immigration. If anything immigration in Canada should be higher, perhaps double or more than what it is now. People look at immigrants and fear the fact that they are different and will 'steal their job' and automatically reject immigration without actually thinking about it.

What is each immigrant? Yes each immigrant is one more person looking for a job, but they are also one more person buying food in the grocery store, one more person buying clothes for themselves and their kids, one more person going out to see a movie. They are one more dwelling built, one more person paying taxes, and one more person contributing to building Canada. Each immigrant needs a job, but each immigrant also provides employment for other people and, despite what people rant about on Facebook, will contribute far more to the country then they will ever take out.

Canada needs population growth. Not just because native born Canadians have a low birth rate, but because economically it is better for Canadians to be part of a much more populous country than a smaller one. A higher population will allow greater competition in many sectors. It will allow more companies to reach efficient scale inside the country and compete, meaning lower prices. Hell, it might even mean we can have a true national fourth cell carrier. More than that, a larger population will allow better domestic capital markets, meaning less Canadian companies need to go find American shareholders and financial backers. As well, one of the biggest problems facing Canadian companies and entrepreneurs is the move from small/medium startup status to being a larger international player. They usually grow as large as the Canadian market can support and then get bought out by foreign firms because they are large enough to be a tempting target but too small to compete internationally and defend themselves. A larger domestic population will mean they have the chance to become larger before being forced to expand internationally, giving Canadian companies a better chance to compete abroad.

People worry about the fact that immigration and population growth will make their cities too crowded or housing too expensive. These could be problems, but they are largely engineering or regulatory problems. They are solvable. Canadians just need to decide if they want to be part of a small parochial population on the periphery of the United States, or if we want to be a large, vibrant population that can actually control our destiny.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 21:18

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

What I am getting at is the best way to murder someone in Canada is with a car, conviction is likely but you will always face the lesser charges regardless of intent. Very rarely is there enough evidence to warrant an actual conviction of murder or homicide. I mean we are better than China where you run people over thrice to ensure they are dead for financial incentives, but be serious about our legal system.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 21:24

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# ? May 13, 2024 21:39

DariusLikewise: Oct 4, 2008; You wore that on Halloween?

jm20 posted:

What I am getting at is the best way to murder someone in Canada is with a car, conviction is likely but you will always face the lesser charges regardless of intent. Very rarely is there enough evidence to warrant an actual conviction of murder or homicide. I mean we are better than China where you run people over thrice to ensure they are dead for financial incentives, but be serious about our legal system.

Make sure you are drunk as gently caress first and then blame it on your rough home life.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 21:27

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