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CJacobs posted:4chan is pretty upset about this, a guy said "why does everything I love turn to poo poo" and while I do think this sucks, it's not that bad. At least, it's not game-ruiningly bad. I mostly play singleplayer anyway so really it's just free steambux with the USB stick thing. If they put the gameplay-affecting weapons into don't-know-what-you'll-get-ahead-of-time boxes, it'll loving suck. They can put cosmetics into that poo poo, but for proper DLC we need to be able to just buy it upfront without literally gambling.
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Nov 24, 2015 03:08
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CJacobs posted:4chan is pretty upset about this, a guy said "why does everything I love turn to poo poo" and while I do think this sucks, it's not that bad. At least, it's not game-ruiningly bad. I mostly play singleplayer anyway so really it's just free steambux with the USB stick thing. 4chan hates everything, so this isn't surprising.
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Nov 24, 2015 04:12
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Reddit and the steam community forums are melting down over this too 
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Nov 24, 2015 06:55
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It's a real bummer. I'm glad I was waiting until they added sharpshooters. 
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Nov 24, 2015 07:18
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I imagine the poo poo with Payday 2 is still fresh in people's minds so most are against the idea of the cosmetics. And again, the game isn't finished it, the implication at least for me, is that the updates have been slow because they where working on introducing this. I am sure that I am WAY OFF and they just had to separate teams or something working on it, but if I made that assumption, others might have.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:20
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Here's my problem with the update From the FAQ: "In the future we may be adding weapons with new gameplay for sale , but this will appear in the “Shared Content” area on the server. This means that, if any player on the server has a weapon ... then every player on the server will be able to use it. No-one gets any “advantage”. Co-op game - everyone starts out equal!" There'a really clear problem with this for me. While this game is Co-op, it is entirely possible to develop a new "side-grade" weapon with gameplay that offers advantages in higher difficulties (or in general), like the Zwie-hander already does. The obvious issue with this is while a purchasable side grade may be available to everyone within a game where one person owns it, you don't get the weapon otherwise. They keep talking about how everyone starts out equal and no one has an advantage, but this isn't fuckign true because some teams playing on Suicidal can use a sidegrade gameplay changing weapon and others don't, because no one in the party bought it. They're obviously looking at advantage and "equality" from the stand point of what is happening on a single server, which is stupid, because there are at once hundreds of servers playing the same difficulty. Does anyone else see this glaring hole in their logic or am I an idiot? Truecon420 fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 07:48
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Away all Goats posted:Reddit and the steam community forums are melting down over this too I'm glad that Tripwire gave us some free entertainment before the latest update comes out.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:53
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Alteisen posted:I imagine the poo poo with Payday 2 is still fresh in people's minds so most are against the idea of the cosmetics. All the stuff they've shown was from the GUNS N GEAR promotion. It's all fanmade. I feel like the work Tripwire did on this amounted to an afternoon or two of plugging it into the same system Valve uses for CS:GO. Hell, I bet a handful of Valve employees lead them through the process.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:58
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It was pretty obvious there was going to be some sort of cosmetic microtransaction system as soon as the accessories option for players was found. If that didn't tune you in, the fact they opened a curated Steam Workshop ala CS:GO and ran a contest to pick the best custom weapon skins and player accessories was a giant clue cosmetic microtransactions were coming sooner than later. Anyone blindsided by this is an idiot.
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Nov 24, 2015 08:04
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closeted republican posted:It was pretty obvious there was going to be some sort of cosmetic microtransaction system as soon as the accessories option for players was found. If that didn't tune you in, the fact they opened a curated Steam Workshop ala CS:GO and ran a contest to pick the best custom weapon skins and player accessories was a giant clue cosmetic microtransactions were coming sooner than later. Anyone blindsided by this is an idiot. Cosmetics were always given, yeah. It's just the whole "Ugh, crates again?  " part that is the annoying one, even though from a Developer logic standpoint, it's hard to see why they wouldn't want in on that."Hey guys, do we want a one and done cosmetics shop? Or do we want scratch ticket gambling and people buying a stupid amount of keys to buy backwards baseball caps and googely eyes from hat barons?... I see everyone has selected the one that will make more money"
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Nov 24, 2015 08:45
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Section Z posted:Cosmetics were always given, yeah. It's just the whole "Ugh, crates again? CS: GO, TF2 and DOTA 2 show that people love crates, so it's understandable that TWI would copy it. Annoying for the player at times, but them's the breaks.
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Nov 24, 2015 08:47
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Well, at least I hope we get more frequent updates out of this whole mess. Ideally, this would drop with the very last class update before leaving EA, because adding microtransactions in EA is... eh who am I kidding, pretty much par for the course nowadays. Also, like before with Payday 2, the heads of Zeds still explode the same even if you don't pay. The game is still fun. vvvvvvvvvvv Theta Zero posted:There's also a group a la the L4D2 boycott group, with interesting parallels to that incident as well. Kikas fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 09:05
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They took down the news update announcing the thing. On a side note there's a ton of angry reviews on the store page now. Here's some of my favorites: quote:Basically, with the added paid microtransactions while still in EAccess, this game is now pure ulfiltered evil. quote:DO NOT SUPPORT THIS GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Microtransactions, censorship on the forums and twitter to damage control. I wish i would never have supported such a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ company. quote:Tripwire announces an entirely irrelevant marketplace for cosmetics instead of a sorely needed content patch. quote:Serves me right, I trusted Tripwire. quote:Its become abundantly clear that Tripwire is more concerned with milking their consumer base than actually making a game...In all honesty I did have fun with the game, but anyone interested in an upgraded KF1 is going to enjoy the visuals for the span of one map, get bored with the stale, broken gameplay and then wait for the next perk to be released in 2045. There's also a group a la the L4D2 boycott group, with interesting parallels to that incident as well.
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Nov 24, 2015 09:06
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closeted republican posted:CS: GO, TF2 and DOTA 2 show that people love crates, so it's understandable that TWI would copy it. Pretty much, yeah. See also, functionally better DLC weapons. KF1 also had those, so as annoying as that is conceptually, at least the "shared" content is still better than we had before. I'm mostly just hoping for an even spread of perk weapons this time around, at this point.
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Nov 24, 2015 09:15
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I'm amazed at people complaining about the devs getting extra revenue from a pretty well tested system which is completely cosmetic.
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Nov 24, 2015 09:17
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Azran posted:I'm amazed at people complaining about the devs getting extra revenue from a pretty well tested system which is completely cosmetic. As much as I rolled my eyes at the announcement I can't really blame Tripwire for doing it because after all the money Valve made with TF2 and Dota 2 and CS:GO it's just good business sense, I mean, why wouldn't you? Of course you have a small chance to get some okay items from normal play (at least in TF2, I've never played Dota 2 or CS:GO) without having to spend money and I didn't see anything like that in the post. I do agree Tripwire should've waited a bit longer before announcing it since the game's still in EA; there's always a group that blows up at these kind of systems and TWI had to be aware that there would be a backlash, but as long as it stays on cosmetics and doesn't affect actual gameplay I don't care that much. I just want my Terminator Chicken back. Maybe if they have some kind of option to turn on/off viewing cosmetic items in game so the nerds can gleefully think to themselves that they can spite people who spent money on items by being able to ignore them it'll sate the sperglust? Nah, who am I kidding. Abandoned Toaster fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 09:38
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It'd be nice if they finished working on the game instead of using the early access money to implement micro transaction schemes.
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Nov 24, 2015 09:50
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DatonKallandor posted:If they put the gameplay-affecting weapons into don't-know-what-you'll-get-ahead-of-time boxes, it'll loving suck. They can put cosmetics into that poo poo, but for proper DLC we need to be able to just buy it upfront without literally gambling. Truecon420 posted:Does anyone else see this glaring hole in their logic or am I an idiot? closeted republican posted:It was pretty obvious there was going to be some sort of cosmetic microtransaction system as soon as the accessories option for players was found. If that didn't tune you in, the fact they opened a curated Steam Workshop ala CS:GO and ran a contest to pick the best custom weapon skins and player accessories was a giant clue cosmetic microtransactions were coming sooner than later. Anyone blindsided by this is an idiot. Theta Zero posted:They took down the news update announcing the thing. Who knows, maybe they hosed up the planning DoubleFine style - their original "out by end of the year!" roadmap obviously wasn't holding up - and their financial situation has become so dire that they really had no choice but to do it right now? RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 10:04
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Truecon420 posted:Here's my problem with the update You're not wrong, the DLC flare guns in KF1 where pretty much required for any Firebug, they where SO loving strong compared to anything else in their arsenal, even off perk they where completely batshit. I dunno, like I said gimme some cool stuff, cute/cool/pretty outfits I'll hurl my wallet at you, poo poo I've spent close to a 100 hundred dollars on Guild Wars 2, I just don't like it cause the games in EA still.
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Nov 24, 2015 10:18
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Alteisen posted:You're not wrong, the DLC flare guns in KF1 where pretty much required for any Firebug, they where SO loving strong compared to anything else in their arsenal, even off perk they where completely batshit. Agreed. In KF1 the work-around was to have someone who had that weapon pack buy what you wanted and throw it at you but in KF2 it's "if someone has this weapon and is in-game then everyone can buy it" which IS better but... Well, there's a reason TF2 made pretty much every weapon (except some literal reskins) obtainable as drops. Abandoned Toaster fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 10:35
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Azran posted:I'm amazed at people complaining about the devs getting extra revenue from a pretty well tested system which is completely cosmetic. It isn't purely cosmetic though. They specifically state that they'll do non-cosmetic poo poo too. The whole "it's only cosmetic thing" would be totally fine if it was true, but it isn't.
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Nov 24, 2015 11:16
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DatonKallandor posted:It isn't purely cosmetic though. They specifically state that they'll do non-cosmetic poo poo too. The whole "it's only cosmetic thing" would be totally fine if it was true, but it isn't. There's also the alarming possiblity of them selling XP boosters so people can level up faster. While the FAQ says that they won't do that now, the fact it's there means they considered the possibility. I also hope that this won't be the only thing we're getting in an update, they are too few and too far between to just drop microtransactions, you need something to attract other players or the userbase will take a massive hit. And it's getting alarmingly low recently, there are only 200 more players playing KF2 then KF1. EDIT: Well there's the Workshop support, with subs. This does mean that soon I'll be able to fight Pepsiman Scrakes and Flesh Cena. Which is something that'll convince me to play. Kikas fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 13:56
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What's the thing about usb sticks? Been out of the loop apparently.
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Nov 24, 2015 14:34
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Nalesh posted:What's the thing about usb sticks? Been out of the loop apparently. They're TF2 crates and you buy keys for random skins/cosmetic items (and possibly at some point down the line random weapons that will work like the zweihander). Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 14:36
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If they make the weapons like the DLC packs from KF1, I don't think I will care. I was fine with dropping $5-6 for a bunch of weapons and support a dev team I like.
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Nov 24, 2015 14:47
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I can see people getting mad that they rolled this out with the game still in EA, and "unfinished". I can see people being mad about the crate system, as I hated it in TF2 and I'm sure it will suck here, but it makes tons of money so SOMEONE is into it. Overall, though, I don't see this as any worse than the character packs in KF1; it's an optional way to toss some dosh at the devs for supporting the game as long as they do. And if sidegrade weapons come in later with the same share system the Zweihander uses I don't see that as a problem at all. I don't think I was ever in a match post-zweihander introduction where someone didn't have it.
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Nov 24, 2015 14:50
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Lemon Curdistan posted:They'e TF2 crates and you buy keys for random skins/cosmetic items (and possibly at some point down the line random weapons that will work like the zweihander). So nothing I'll care about until they think about adding weapons to them, gotcha. I hope they just keep doing the kf1 style weapon thing though, instead of making it random bullshit.
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Nov 24, 2015 15:21
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I doubt new weapons will be part of the loot roulette, but I'll eat my words if that's the case. The fact that one player has it = everyone has it is pretty cool though, and a good way to handle it (see: Zweihander) Also - I think this is basically the best moment to apply microtransactions. You'd get a little more goodwill if the game was out of EA but a) gamers are dumb and they'd still complain and b) they said this is, like anything else, a system that needs to be reiterated on so I'd rather they do it now than gently caress it up when the game launches.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:34
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Azran posted:I doubt new weapons will be part of the loot roulette, but I'll eat my words if that's the case. The fact that one player has it = everyone has it is pretty cool though, and a good way to handle it (see: Zweihander) The website mentions them adding in weapons like that at a later date. I think the timing for this was all wrong. They are just about release gunslinger so they should have waited for that before releasing the microtransactions. This makes it look like instead of finishing that they did this first which is a bad look.
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Nov 24, 2015 18:55
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Just going to chime in because I think it's a valid concern and I've seen it brought up a couple of times: I get why people would be upset about us tossing in the system when the game isn't out of early access yet. A lot of the ire comes from the incorrect assumption that developers are pulled off creating other game content for this system and as some people have guessed it doesn't really impact content creation or game balance/patching in a significant way. The gameplay and weapons coders, weapons modelers and animators that you would need to make a perk like sharpshooter are still cranking right along working on that stuff. Valve gave us the backbone for this feature and it takes a totally different programming expertise to implement this stuff and drop it into the game. Really, the only developers who you could argue are getting pulled off other tasks are the character artists who have to tweak and check all the community submissions and we're quickly getting to the point where they need more work because they can outpace the other people who are required to get you more new characters (voice actors, audio directors, etc). Anyway, what I consider best case scenario for the whole feature is that it becomes hugely successful like it has been for CS:GO and the revenue from the system allows us to keep releasing tons of free content for KF2 for years and years.
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Nov 24, 2015 18:57
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Regardless of where the developers' time is going, putting microtransactions into a game that's barely halfway to the projected full release in terms of content is pretty crappy.
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Nov 24, 2015 19:06
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Pretty disappointing :/ I expected a whole lot more out of TWI. The old DLC model was excellent.
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Nov 24, 2015 19:21
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Questioner86 posted:Just going to chime in because I think it's a valid concern and I've seen it brought up a couple of times: That is complete bullshit. If it's a success then the feature will be expanded on. It's down right ridiculous to say that future plans will never once be though of as to how best include them into the box system. Every single game that has ever had these systems is influenced by them. New content is always created in a way that allows for the developers to make best use of the systems available. New gun packs, skin packs tying into new dlc, that all is a significant impact on content creation and distribution compared to a game that doesn't have those in place. If the system is there then it absolutely will impact future content creation. Im not saying that it will necessarily be bad but to say that it doesn't impact content creation at all is wrong.
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Nov 24, 2015 19:22
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Questioner86 posted:Just going to chime in because I think it's a valid concern and I've seen it brought up a couple of times: I am enjoying KF2. I would spend money on DLC packs. But I don't spend money on this random stuff. Because I never win anything. Also isn't that risking being considered a gambling game. Since the stuff in the crates can be sold? Selling XP items (or straight up selling levels) seems not a bad idea on the other hand. Some people don't want to wait, and pay for progression is hardly going to be a balance issue. Heck if there are achievements for going back to zero and releveling, that could be a real money maker :P. I recall some people did actually reset (or had it done) their KF1 accounts to relevel them.
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Nov 24, 2015 19:30
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Tank Boy Ken posted:Also isn't that risking being considered a gambling game. Since the stuff in the crates can be sold? I doubt it, CS GO/Dota/TF2 aren't considered gambling games.
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Nov 24, 2015 19:34
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I'm not sure why people are thinking its only going to be cosmetic (which I have zero problem with) when they have also said it will almost certainly be done with actual weapons too:quote:In the future we may be adding weapons with new gameplay for sale , but this will appear in the “Shared Content” area on the server. This means that, if any player on the server has a weapon ... then every player on the server will be able to use it. No-one gets any “advantage”. Co-op game - everyone starts out equal! I think that's the problem most people are having with this. I love cosmetics, give me crates, let me unlock some dapper poo poo for my dude, that's fine and cool, but weapons do rub me the wrong way.
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Nov 24, 2015 19:50
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New weapons aren't going to come out of crates, they're going to be regular ol' DLC packs. We'll see how Tripwire handles cosmetic skins for DLC weapons, though.
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Nov 24, 2015 19:54
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hahah yeah, Questioner, please report back to Tripwire HQ that "you just unlocked a cosmetic skin for a weapon you don't own" is an outcome that should never happen.
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Nov 24, 2015 19:58
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ClonedPickle posted:New weapons aren't going to come out of crates, they're going to be regular ol' DLC packs. We'll see how Tripwire handles cosmetic skins for DLC weapons, though. How do you know, all they mentioned is new weapons will be on sale, that doesn't mean you can buy them direct, it could just also be a weapon crate. We don't know enough to say how weapons will be sold but the fact that what they're selling is weapons in any form is still a bummer to me.
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Nov 24, 2015 19:59
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randombattle posted:That is complete bullshit. If it's a success then the feature will be expanded on. It's down right ridiculous to say that future plans will never once be though of as to how best include them into the box system. Every single game that has ever had these systems is influenced by them. New content is always created in a way that allows for the developers to make best use of the systems available. New gun packs, skin packs tying into new dlc, that all is a significant impact on content creation and distribution compared to a game that doesn't have those in place. If you want to draw that conclusion that's fine but I'm just pulling from my experience working on the system. I can't exactly do anything to convince you to take my word on anything so I'll just drop the topic. Tank Boy Ken posted:I am enjoying KF2. I would spend money on DLC packs. But I don't spend money on this random stuff. Because I never win anything. Also isn't that risking being considered a gambling game. Since the stuff in the crates can be sold? One thing that is kinda cool about this system is that is kinda gets rid of the need for DLC packs. We want to do a bunch of character skins like we did in KF1? Put them on the store and mark them as non-tradable/marketable items and you have the same result. The only difference for you as a player is buying the skins in-game with your steam wallet funds vs. buying them in the steam store page.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:11
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