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TheDisreputableDog posted:
uh huh. and i'm sure yours aren't, and your house is sparkling. rofl
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Dec 22, 2015 20:34
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Extrajudicial executions of American citizens are not cool or good. We are only allowed to do that with people from other countries
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Dec 22, 2015 20:37
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Oh man does this make me conservative because I genuinely agree with this. Most people agree with this.
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Dec 22, 2015 20:37
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Tax Policy Center rated the Trump Tax PLan and weeelllll: http://taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/2000560-an-analysis-of-donald-trumps-tax-plan.pdf
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Dec 22, 2015 20:41
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TheDisreputableDog posted:You do not get to claim the moral high ground when your president targeted and killed a Muslim American (also his teenage son - nbd) just because he was on a list somewhere. Aw man, you're against the extrajudicial killing of US citizens? So, you voting straight Socialist this year, or just staying home?
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Dec 22, 2015 20:45
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radical meme posted:That's a good long article. Lots of quotable stuff. My takeaway was that Frum danced all around the issue and never came right out and said it: the GOP party elite are losing their grip on their base, they can't continue to lie and abuse their base and expect them to fall in line and vote for a Wall Street stooge. The problem is, they can do it and Frum's ulitimate solution is that the GOP is just going to change the rules of the game at the state level to allow them to do it. it's depressing but true. He also danced all around the issue of increasingly open racism and bigotry in the Republican Party base. Frum really wants to believe Trump is running on anti-immigration rhetoric strictly in the rational, economic populism sense, but that's absolutely not the case and acknowledging this fact makes him really uncomfortable. Latinos, Asians and Muslims are voting democrat because they value education and health care and they're also aware of the fact that the other party is pandering to a base that loving hates them on a personal level. Rhesus Pieces fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 20:46
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Your whining and protestations are partisan and fake - clean your own house.  Seriously, there is so much irony in that statement, I don't know where to begin. Look inwards first.
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Dec 22, 2015 20:46
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Talmonis posted:Most people agree with this. CAIR doesn't agree with this.
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Dec 22, 2015 20:54
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Tax Policy Center rated the Trump Tax PLan and weeelllll: http://taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/2000560-an-analysis-of-donald-trumps-tax-plan.pdf An 80% increase is HUUUGGE! Oh, it could potentially increase the national debt by 80%, that is huge. (and not a surprise) quote:Increase the standard deduction to $25,000 for single filers and $50,000 for joint filers in 2015, indexed for inflation thereafter. This is something I can support. Pohl fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Dec 22, 2015 |
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Dec 22, 2015 21:02
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TheDisreputableDog posted:No. I think you give yourself away implicitly in your thoughts.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:02
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David Frum has an interesting look from the GOP perspective about the tension which mires their house: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/the-great-republican-revolt/419118/
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Dec 22, 2015 21:05
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Dec 22, 2015 21:11
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:David Frum has an interesting look from the GOP perspective about the tension which mires their house: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/the-great-republican-revolt/419118/ Already posted a page or two back, sorry.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:11
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I'm surprised it took this long.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:13
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Shageletic posted:I think GW's administration was the wake up call, that US efficacy abroad through military means is, and has for a long time, been a mirage. I think you're somewhat idealistic about the ability of American power to reshape the world in any sort of positive direction. Getting together something like a climate change compact is about the extent of American influence, and barely that. The idea that the US had the ability to reshape the ME and change the underlying dynamics and fissures, without just smashing whatever was there until even more instability welled up, is extremely foolish. We can't even get our closest ally in the Middle East to treat its neighbors like human beings.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:17
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The DHS changed the rules and you can now not opt out of the scanner that lets horny TSA agents see your boobs. http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/privacy-tsa-pia-32-d-ait.pdf
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Dec 22, 2015 21:24
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The Aardvark posted:I'm surprised it took this long. I actually watched the review and the "Pentagon propaganda" aspect is even funnier than I thought. It's because Rey is a strong woman, so this is obviously an attempt to indoctrinate America into supporting the decision to allow women into combat roles in the US military. Also, the Prequels were all about how the government engages in FALSE FLAGS!!! It's Infowars, so they've gotta work in the FALSE FLAG somehow.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:24
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PleasingFungus posted:Already posted a page or two back, sorry. Ah, didn't see it. He generally doesn't call them out as being racists, but I find Frum is generally good for seeing weakness in his own party.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:26
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baw posted:Extrajudicial executions of American citizens are not cool or good. We are only allowed to do that with people from other countries He was in another country at the time. And extrajudicial execution of enemy combatants is fine, it doesn't matter where they were born. Dude was actively part of a terrorist organization in a war zone planning and executing attacks.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:29
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Good to know D&D supports assassinating American citizens.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:32
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Teflon Don posted:Good to know D&D supports assassinating American citizens. I mean, what is your alternative here? Being born in the U.S. doesn't give you diplomatic immunity to commit terrorist attacks against the country.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:37
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I actually agree with TheDisreputableDog here-- the US government should kill its citizens only if they pose an immediate threat (i.e. a gunman shooting people at a mall), and even then only as a last resort. If the US had sufficient evidence on al-Awlaki to convict him of a crime, they should have worked with the Yemeni government (who was also after him) to arrest him, and then either tried him in the US or let the Yemenis deal with him. Your right to a trial doesn't go away just because the government suspects that you are a member of a terrorist organization.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:39
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Teflon Don posted:Good to know D&D supports assassinating American citizens. Reported for trolling false equivalency. Anyway, I don't have much of a problem with it personally given the circumstances and his status as an operative in a terror organization. I don't think it's really unprecedented either.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:40
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VikingofRock posted:I actually agree with TheDisreputableDog here-- the US government should kill its citizens only if they pose an immediate threat (i.e. a gunman shooting people at a mall), and even then only as a last resort. If the US had sufficient evidence on al-Awlaki to convict him of a crime, they should have worked with the Yemeni government (who was also after him) to arrest him, and then either tried him in the US or let the Yemenis deal with him. Your right to a trial doesn't go away just because the government suspects that you are a member of a terrorist organization. Its okay, better to capture them, torture them in Black facilities in other countries regardless of guilt or innocence, and then fly them to a prison where they have no hope of trial.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:40
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At the US Naval Observatory: a gingerbread version of the Joseph R. Biden Amtrak Station in Wilmington, Delaware.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:41
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VikingofRock posted:I actually agree with TheDisreputableDog here-- the US government should kill its citizens only if they pose an immediate threat (i.e. a gunman shooting people at a mall), and even then only as a last resort. If the US had sufficient evidence on al-Awlaki to convict him of a crime, they should have worked with the Yemeni government (who was also after him) to arrest him, and then either tried him in the US or let the Yemenis deal with him. Your right to a trial doesn't go away just because the government suspects that you are a member of a terrorist organization. Of course they had enough evidence to convict him, him being a major AQAP asset and all. The problem is there's little stomach for exfiltration ops in AQAP territory and that Saleh's military was a bungling joke.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:42
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Joementum posted:I actually watched the review and the "Pentagon propaganda" aspect is even funnier than I thought. It's because Rey is a strong woman, so this is obviously an attempt to indoctrinate America into supporting the decision to allow women into combat roles in the US military. I just don't get conservatives anymore. Are Troops are our nation's most precious resource that we must send into every war forever for no good reason, give the DoD infinite money forever so the traitors who run it can waste money on policy changes we hate, we can't let women become Are Troops because we need to make sure only the best of the best join the army which is why we need to make sure the army continues dropping the enlistment requirements to compensate for the lack of qualified recruits. Like, I thought when it became widely known that the policy change to allow women into combat roles was actually at the behest of the Pentagon itself, the issue of women soldiers would fizzle out, instead of the Pentagon becoming liebral traitors. E: Teflon Don posted:Good to know D&D supports assassinating American citizens. I think it's Not Good but a) literally everyone who could become president in 2016 is for it so there's not much to talk about, and b) a staunch Republican doesn't really have any room to criticize a president for extrajudicial killings.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:43
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CommieGIR posted:Its okay, better to capture them, torture them in Black facilities in other countries regardless of guilt or innocence, and then fly them to a prison where they have no hope of trial. Actually I don't think we should do that either.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:47
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VikingofRock posted:Actually I don't think we should do that either. I know, it was rhetorical and not aimed at you, sorry.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:50
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CommieGIR posted:I know, it was rhetorical and not aimed at you, sorry. No worries, it's hard to tell sometimes.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:51
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VikingofRock posted:I actually agree with TheDisreputableDog here-- the US government should kill its citizens only if they pose an immediate threat (i.e. a gunman shooting people at a mall), and even then only as a last resort. If the US had sufficient evidence on al-Awlaki to convict him of a crime, they should have worked with the Yemeni government (who was also after him) to arrest him, and then either tried him in the US or let the Yemenis deal with him. Your right to a trial doesn't go away just because the government suspects that you are a member of a terrorist organization. Same. Due process doesn't fly out the window just because of varying degrees of "terrorist sympathies". If you have evidence, arrest and send him to trial. If you don't then oh well you can't. I know that's not how the country functions nowadays, but it should be. CommieGIR posted:Its okay, better to capture them, torture them in Black facilities in other countries regardless of guilt or innocence, and then fly them to a prison where they have no hope of trial. I hope you're being ironic because that is in no way a point anyone here supports.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:52
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SSNeoman posted:I hope you're being ironic because that is in no way a point anyone here supports. Yes. Its very ironic.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:54
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VikingofRock posted:Actually I don't think we should do that either. If you don't wish to face extraordinary rendition, don't join Al Qaeda or any other State listed terrorist groups. Your rights as a citizen come with responsibilities for their use; if you avoid these responsibilities, your rights no longer apply as they used to.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:54
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SSNeoman posted:Same. Due process doesn't fly out the window just because of varying degrees of "terrorist sympathies". If you have evidence, arrest and send him to trial. If you don't then oh well you can't. I know that's not how the country functions nowadays, but it should be. It wasn't vague sympathies that earned Al-Awlaki a death sentence. Basically he had links to the 2009 Fort Hood Massacre and the 2009 attempted destruction of a Detroit-bound passenger-plane.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:57
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MothraAttack posted:Of course they had enough evidence to convict him, him being a major AQAP asset and all. The problem is there's little stomach for exfiltration ops in AQAP territory and that Saleh's military was a bungling joke. Don't see why they can't at least try him in absentia; legally attempt to summon him and have a dedicated set of defenders ...it'd still probably end up half a show trial, but you can't reasonably argue that these kinds of executions aren't extremely problematic/flat out illegal from a rule of law perspective.
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Dec 22, 2015 21:58
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Extrajudicial state killings carried out by airborne murder drones are good and keep you safe.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:02
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Combed Thunderclap posted:Don't see why they can't at least try him in absentia; legally attempt to summon him and have a dedicated set of defenders It's not practical to try international terrorists in open court, as much of the evidence against the defendent would be classified intellegence.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:02
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GalacticAcid posted:Extrajudicial state killings carried out by airborne murder drones are good and keep you safe. Debatable in the safe keeping aspect, but arguably effective in hampering the ability of international terror groups to coordinate. "Good", depending on your perspective.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:04
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DrProsek posted:I just don't get conservatives anymore. Are Troops are our nation's most precious resource that we must send into every war forever for no good reason, give the DoD infinite money forever so the traitors who run it can waste money on policy changes we hate, we can't let women become Are Troops because we need to make sure only the best of the best join the army which is why we need to make sure the army continues dropping the enlistment requirements to compensate for the lack of qualified recruits. Don't forget we need to always support them but we also support our Congressmen who vote to decrease spending on the socialist medical and Veteran's benefits our patriotic troops receive and god bless them for fighting for our right to refuse them medical care and turn them into homeless people that we can further denigrate and abuse when we see them sleeping on the street.
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Dec 22, 2015 22:06
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Talmonis posted:It's not practical to try international terrorists in open court, as much of the evidence against the defendent would be classified intellegence. You're right, we'd just end up with another FISA court  But even a closed or semi-open court would be better than the alternative, which is straight up execution (and at least the courts would at hopefully treat the death penalty with some modicum of reverence).
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Dec 22, 2015 22:06
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