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Otisburg posted:Don't they literally have an LCG though? Porkins with Expert Handling and R5-D8 isn't very good because you only get one action per turn without Experimental Interface (which is unique), and you have a ~1/7th chance of dealing yourself a damage per stress that sticks with you on a ship that only has five hit points to begin with, at a cost of eight points, to get one reposition option. Porkins with Engine Upgrade, Push the Limit, and R5-D8 is even more expensive (9 points) for a different (but still single) reposition option with the same chance of damaging yourself and less stress. Generally, Porkins isn't worth it in general because you can get practically the same effect from another X-wing pilot with Push the Limit and an R2 Astromech, or Adrenaline Rush. His utility is being a PS7 X-wing with an EPT to stick VI on. I'll give you the same spiel I give everybody who laments the lack of reposition options on an X-wing: it's all practice, knowing dials, and outguessing your opponent. Repositions make the third part easier by giving you after-maneuver options to fix mistakes. They're a crutch, not a necessity in a well flown list. X-wing's activiation phase is not a solved system, and having Pilot Skill advantage over high mobility aces means that even if you don't have reposition options, they have to respect every maneuver it's possible for you to make at any given moment. It's harder to fly an X-wing than it is to fly a same-skill Interceptor or other arc-dodger, and that difficulty is reflected in their reputation, but they're not bad.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:25
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JerikTelorian posted:So I've read that X-Wings are crap. I'm brand new to the game (and minis in general) so is there any reason FFG can't just like, release a pack of cards that has some fix cards, or like, a set of pilot update cards? X-Wings were the bees' knees* until B-Wings came along and ruined everything just by being better at the same job. The T-70s actually seem to be fairly competitive at the moment (The final World Championship match this year was between two lists with Poe Dameron in them). As for the T-65, things like BB-8 and Integrated Astromech do a lot to increase their effectiveness. 3X or 4X lists are probably still a tough row to hoe, but if you want to run a list built around one of the X-Wing aces like Wedge or Wes, now may be best time since wave 3. *Technically the B-Wing did not supersede the X-Wing as the bees' knees--the title was retired when Wave 3 hit and the B-Wing's class upgraded to 'the dog's bollocks'. True fact. Obama 2012 fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 05:26
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Strobe posted:Epic ships move after all non-epic ships have moved in a separate phase, but fire in normal pilot skill order during the combat phase. ah.
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Jan 4, 2016 05:33
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Obama 2012 posted:The T-70s actually seem to be fairly competitive at the moment (The final World Championship match this year was between two lists with Poe Dameron in them). See, this is something I'm unsure about. Is it that the T70 is woah amazing more competitive than the T65, or is it just that Poe Dameron is a really good pilot? Because how many pro-tier competitive lists were using Red Squad Veterans or Blue Ace or something? Are we gonna see Ello Asty dominating? For all that some people disparage the T65 but qualify it by saying "well, some of the pilots are good," it seems like more often than not people aren't choosing ship types so much as pilots who due to how the game is structured happen to be locked to specific ship types. It's a bit like saying that E-Wings are competitive because Corran Horn + R2D2 + Engine Upgrade/FCS exists. Ships in X-Wing seem to fall into two categories, either people focus on the elite aces of the bunch or the scrub-tier mooks...you don't see too many people running Alpha Squadron Interceptors or named Headhunter pilots, for example...with everyone in the middle just sort of there sitting around awkwardly.
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Jan 4, 2016 06:06
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Kai Tave posted:Ships in X-Wing seem to fall into two categories, either people focus on the elite aces of the bunch or the scrub-tier mooks... I think this is a design space that needs some attention, myself. I wouldn't be surprised to see more upgrades in the future that give a boost to mid-PS ships. We've already seen some of those, like Crack Shot. A disposable EPT isn't something you're going to put on your primary ace, but it's good on groups of mid-PS ships like Black Squadron TIE fighters.
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Jan 4, 2016 06:21
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ConfusedUs posted:I think this is a design space that needs some attention, myself. It also does absolutely nothing to the mid-tier pilots with no EPTs, which are the ones that really suffer in the current meta anyway. When was the last time you saw Arvel Crynyd? Or Hobbie? Dutch shows up every once in a while because his ability is really nice, but it's not because there's actually a good use for a PS 6 Y-wing with no EPT.
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Jan 4, 2016 06:30
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Strobe posted:It also does absolutely nothing to the mid-tier pilots with no EPTs, which are the ones that really suffer in the current meta anyway. When was the last time you saw Arvel Crynyd? Or Hobbie? Dutch shows up every once in a while because his ability is really nice, but it's not because there's actually a good use for a PS 6 Y-wing with no EPT. I don't disagree at all; I think Crack Shot is just the start of this trend. I wouldn't be surprised to see some modifications that have PS restrictions of some sort. "You cannot equip this this if your Pilot Skill is 7 or higher" kind of a thing. There's also the potential for a reverse Predator restriction, where a card gives a bigger bonus against higher PS ships. A "Bounty Hunter" card would be thematically appropriate for Scum, for example. This is all theorycrafting, but I really wouldn't be surprised to see something of this sort in Wave 9.
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Jan 4, 2016 06:43
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In theory I'd think a swarm that spent a couple points more per ship might have an advantage over a swarm that went all bare bones academy pilots or w/e, what with getting to focus fire before being answered. But since you're not sure what's going to be across the table and there's no difference between PS4/5 and PS1/2 if you end up facing triple aces or whatever, that kind of goes out the window.
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Jan 4, 2016 06:45
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Otisburg posted:In theory I'd think a swarm that spent a couple points more per ship might have an advantage over a swarm that went all bare bones academy pilots or w/e, what with getting to focus fire before being answered. Swarms that spend a couple more pts per ship are very good right now... but that's bevause they get an EPT and can take Crack Shot.
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Jan 4, 2016 06:51
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Otisburg posted:In theory I'd think a swarm that spent a couple points more per ship might have an advantage over a swarm that went all bare bones academy pilots or w/e, what with getting to focus fire before being answered. This is largely the issue with mid-PS ships right now. Unless you have an EPT (and can take Veteran Instincts or other significant survival boosters like Push the Limit as your local meta dictates), spending points for PS falls largely into four tiers. You have the Budget Tier, which is the PS 1 and 2 ships, the ones where it just doesn't get any cheaper and you're spending the minimum points necessary to get this particular brand of ship on the table. You have the Predator-proof Tier, which is the PS 3 and PS 4 ships that aren't the cheapest, fire before the cheapest, and don't give Predator double rerolls. You have the Ace Tier, which is PS7 (with EPT) and PS8/9 that are expensive but shoot first and generally have pretty sweet abilities. Below that you have Trash Tier, where the points you spend on PS don't give you any advantage over Budget Tier that the tier below doesn't already have, and you don't get high enough for any benefit against Ace Tier. The three or four points a PS 6 ship pays for being PS 6 instead of PS 2 do absolutely nothing for it, and are just wasted points. Nobody would ever take a ship at PS 5 through PS 7 (no EPT) if those ships didn't have a good ability to justify bringing them that would justify it at any other points level you're getting the ship for anyway.
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Jan 4, 2016 06:53
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Yeah, there's really no reason to take a PS 5 or 6 pilot unless they have an amazing ability. Biggs is kind of the poster child here, but there are a few others that sometimes pop up. For those, you take them despite their pilot skill. I can think of only one pilot in the game who benefits from being PS6, and that's Deathrain. At PS6 you have the flexibility to move after nearly all generics (useful for on-reveal bombs like Seismic Charges) and before aces (useful for action bombs like Proxy Mines). I've run Deathrain in several tournaments and rarely did I feel like I wanted her to be a higher or lower pilot skill than she was. It wouldn't make much difference if she were PS 5 or 7, but PS6 is a nice enough middle ground. At 4 she'd compete with black sq. ties and at 8 she'd compete with aces. PS6 is just fine for Deathrain.
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Jan 4, 2016 07:22
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Which is funny because by far the most common mod I've seen on Deathrain is Advanced Scopes to let them move before anyone else and slap Prox Mines/Conner Nets on someone without being blocked,
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Jan 4, 2016 07:25
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Kai Tave posted:See, this is something I'm unsure about. Is it that the T70 is woah amazing more competitive than the T65, or is it just that Poe Dameron is a really good pilot? Because how many pro-tier competitive lists were using Red Squad Veterans or Blue Ace or something? Are we gonna see Ello Asty dominating? I personally feel like the T-70 is just a pretty good ship. The maneuver dial does what it needs to do, and in a vacuum you get access to two good acrobatic aces and one okay one (PTL/BB-8 Poe, Ello Asty, "Blue Ace"), a tank pilot ("Red Ace"), and a PS4 that you can stick something like Crack Shot on guiltlessly (Red Squadron Veteran). The vanilla T-70 compared to, say, the vanilla B-Wing is four points more expensive for two more PS (no Predator), Boost, and T-Rolls. I think it's just a Good Ship™.
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Jan 4, 2016 07:29
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Kai Tave posted:Which is funny because by far the most common mod I've seen on Deathrain is Advanced Scopes to let them move before anyone else and slap Prox Mines/Conner Nets on someone without being blocked, I tried that and hated it. At PS6 the only things that will move before you are generics. Those usually come in groups, and you don't want them to be able to reposition when you drop a Proton Bomb in the middle of their swarm. And you'll still move before aces at PS6, so it makes no difference in your ability to drop a Connor Net in front of Soontir. I had the most luck with Advanced Sensors in the Systems slot. You can drop a bomb ANYWHERE if you have advanced sensors.
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Jan 4, 2016 07:30
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I've run 4 T-70s with Integrated R2s and they've done pretty well.
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Jan 4, 2016 07:31
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I was just laying in bed going over the results of today's games. Lost to brobots, but that was just bad piloting on my part plus a bad matchup, lesson learned etc. It was really the match before that that was bothering me. But for the life of me Vader/Fel/Palp went so poorly I dunno what I did wrong. I got fel out of position so he had no shot for like three rounds and nuked the shuttle but just couldn't kill Vader because of those drat autothrusters. And then I realized why Vader and auto thrusters kept bugging me. Mother. Fucker.
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Jan 4, 2016 07:36
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ranbo das posted:I was just laying in bed going over the results of today's games. Lost to brobots, but that was just bad piloting on my part plus a bad matchup, lesson learned etc. It was really the match before that that was bothering me. Uh, Vader doesn't have Boost, and can't use Autothrusters. He can get Boost with Engine Upgrade, but then that's it. Unless I'm a moron and reading this incorrectly. EDIT: whoops guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 07:40
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ranbo das posted:And then I realized why Vader and auto thrusters kept bugging me. Mother. Fucker. He was altering the rules. Pray he does not alter them further.
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Jan 4, 2016 07:40
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ranbo das posted:I was just laying in bed going over the results of today's games. Lost to brobots, but that was just bad piloting on my part plus a bad matchup, lesson learned etc. It was really the match before that that was bothering me. Oh man did he really take Autothrusters instead of Engine Upgrade on Vader, and no one called him on it?
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Jan 4, 2016 07:43
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ranbo das posted:I was just laying in bed going over the results of today's games. Lost to brobots, but that was just bad piloting on my part plus a bad matchup, lesson learned etc. It was really the match before that that was bothering me. Guess hes a miniwargaming fan? EDIT: Actually come to think of it i've seen people boost with Vader without engine upgrade before. Is this just a surprisingly common missed rule or some house rule that was going around before vader got his groove back? kingcom fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 07:45
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Was this a casual tournament that allowed proxies? If so, people might have been proxying the EU card for Vader. Understandable if they play strictly Imperial and don't want to splurge on a Falcon to get it. That Autothruster thing is definitely a faux pas, though. Speaking of Autothrusters, Was this list mentioned at all? Sienar Test Pilot (16) XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1) Autothrusters (2) TIE/v1 (1) Sienar Test Pilot (16) XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1) Autothrusters (2) TIE/v1 (1) Sienar Test Pilot (16) XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1) Autothrusters (2) TIE/v1 (1) Sienar Test Pilot (16) XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1) Autothrusters (2) TIE/v1 (1) Sienar Test Pilot (16) XX-23 S-Thread Tracers (1) Autothrusters (2) TIE/v1 (1) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder
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Jan 4, 2016 08:39
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I was looking at some of the upgrades for the carrier, and I noticed this: "Ordnance Tubes HUGE SHIP ONLY. MODIFICATION. You may treat each of your Hardpoint upgrade icons as a Torpedo or Missile upgrade icon. When you are instructed to discard a Torpedo or Missile Upgrade card, do not discard it." So, infinite missiles/torpedoes? Also people on the wiki are talking about shooting multiple missiles/torps in a round, but aren't huge ships still restricted to the 1 attack/round rule?
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Jan 4, 2016 09:00
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Tacopocalypse posted:Was this a casual tournament that allowed proxies? If so, people might have been proxying the EU card for Vader. Understandable if they play strictly Imperial and don't want to splurge on a Falcon to get it. That Autothruster thing is definitely a faux pas, though. I think it is an interesting concept but it falls apart in practise. While the potential action economy is great you don't get your evade token until one of the ships fires at PS 2, so you only get your evade after the aces have all had a chance to shoot you. The only lists you will have your evades against will be PS 1 swarms, or PS 2 if you have initiative. Might work on the PS 4 generics if they have EPTs so you can guarantee getting to use juke, then it would be like having reusable crack shots.
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Jan 4, 2016 09:13
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Foolster41 posted:I was looking at some of the upgrades for the carrier, and I noticed this: You can take multiple attacks if you have multiple equipped secondary weapon cards on a Hooge ship. If you've loaded Ordnance Toobs, that means you could throw missiles out. The problem is that most of the ordnance requires you to spend a target lock to fire the torpedo or missile, and you only have the opportunity to take one target lock on those ships. Interesting as a concept, but I don't think I see it being Actually Useful in practice.
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Jan 4, 2016 09:20
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guts and bolts posted:I personally feel like the T-70 is just a pretty good ship. The maneuver dial does what it needs to do, and in a vacuum you get access to two good acrobatic aces and one okay one (PTL/BB-8 Poe, Ello Asty, "Blue Ace"), a tank pilot ("Red Ace"), and a PS4 that you can stick something like Crack Shot on guiltlessly (Red Squadron Veteran). The vanilla T-70 compared to, say, the vanilla B-Wing is four points more expensive for two more PS (no Predator), Boost, and T-Rolls. I think it's just a Good Ship™. It suffers from some of the problems premium generic ships have, but I think Poe is absolutely great and worth it- i've not seen the other aces enough to say, but I don't think the generic t-70s make a ton of sense.
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Jan 4, 2016 12:18
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Went to a 30 person tournament today and came in 3rd with a Keyan, Biggs, 3 Z list. First place went to a Guri + 4 Z list which is awesome. Nice to see that good players can win decent sized tournaments with a StarViper. Was a pretty diverse meta. The only ship that wasn't represented was the Tie Defender.
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Jan 4, 2016 12:57
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KongGeorgeVII posted:I think it is an interesting concept but it falls apart in practise. While the potential action economy is great you don't get your evade token until one of the ships fires at PS 2, so you only get your evade after the aces have all had a chance to shoot you. You get the evade when you acquire the target lock, not when you spend it.
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Jan 4, 2016 14:10
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ConfusedUs posted:You get the evade when you acquire the target lock, not when you spend it. And only one of your ships is acquiring a target lock during the movement phase.
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Jan 4, 2016 14:13
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Poopy Palpy posted:And only one of your ships is acquiring a target lock during the movement phase. Not even that. Thread tracers require a focus token to fire, but isn't consumed in firing.
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Jan 4, 2016 15:49
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zVxTeflon posted:First place went to a Guri + 4 Z list which is awesome. Nice to see that good players can win decent sized tournaments with a StarViper. A guy at my store will sometimes run a 4 Starviper gimmick list. Last I heard, it was undefeated 5/0.
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Jan 4, 2016 16:27
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So, I am in a team epic game later today, against someone running the new assualt transport. Ever since I got into the game I always wanted to run Red Flight from starfighters of Adumar. The only epic ship I have is a gr-75, so I decided to run this list (Which, I know, probably pretty terrible) and assume Red Flight is escorting a munitions transport off of Adumar because I am dorky liek that (Note, only have two t-70 expansions, so that's why Hobbie doesn't have I-A) GR-75 Combat Retrofit Bright Hope Tibanna Gas Backup Shield Generator WED repair Droid Tycho Celchu Wired, Prockets, Test Pilot, PTL, Autothrusters Wes Janson VI, R3-A2, Integrated Astromech Wedge Antillies Predator, BB-8, Integrated Astromech, Hobbie, Targetting Astromech, Prototype Pilot, Chardaan, Autothrusters.
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Jan 4, 2016 17:40
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Panzeh posted:It suffers from some of the problems premium generic ships have, but I think Poe is absolutely great and worth it- i've not seen the other aces enough to say, but I don't think the generic t-70s make a ton of sense. I'd almost argue that it's the other way around - that the Aces on the T-70 currently don't make very much sense - but I'm still new to the game, and I'm still learning how valuable things are to the game's point and action economies. So, you know, caveat emptor, and that. But outside of Poe Dameron, arguably the best Ace pilot currently in the game, the T-70 Aces are: - Ello Asty, who gets free T-Rolls if not stressed; - "Red Ace," who has a specific build that makes him good but is otherwise a PS6 "ace" who can't equip an Elite; - "Blue Ace," a PS5/no Elite "ace" with a pilot ability that strikes me as incredibly situational. Because it's impossible to fully divorce a ship from its pilots - pilots are locked to a ship and there is no "standard baseline" for generic pilots of a given ship - I find it hard to talk about "the T-70" versus "the guys who fly it," but that said, a ship's domain is in base statline (red dice, green dice, hull and shield strengths), the maneuver dial, and the action bar, while a pilot's domain is PS, accessible upgrades, and pilot abilities where applicable. The T-70 X-Wing has a good statline (3/2/3/3), what I would call a "very good" maneuver dial (no S-Loops, but T-Rolls are really fuckin' good), and a good suite of actions (Boost comes standard). Sure, the generic Blue Squadron Novice costs literally twice as much as an Academy Pilot TIE, but the TIE as a ship has a significantly worse statline (2/3/3/0), what I would call a "middling" maneuver dial, and a decent suite of actions. In terms of pilots the Blue Squadron Novice can take three upgrades while the Academy Pilot can take zero, he has an additional Pilot Skill (the usefulness of which is debatable, since both are bad and both in Predator range), and neither have a pilot ability. Consider that the T-70 has twice as much "effective health" as a TIE and rolls more red dice (the more valuable of the two colors of die, in my opinion) while also having access to both Boost and T-Rolls and it begins to make a little more sense why premium fighters are priced the way they are.
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Jan 4, 2016 17:51
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Poopy Palpy posted:And only one of your ships is acquiring a target lock during the movement phase. But...they all could? They have the target lock action. There's always the chance that positioning means the enemy ace isn't in range when the test pilots move, but some decent piloting can fix that from happening of the time
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Jan 4, 2016 18:12
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Won my first game yesterday!  Round 1 I was up against Dash Rendar and regenerating Corran Horn, and pretty much got wiped off the face of the earth. Carnor Jax is really good when he can stick close to Dash, but the moment he has to PTL to catch up he's going to immediately get left in the dust the next turn, and Corran's double-tap is just brutal. Round 2 was against Carnor and a bunch of TIE aces, like Omega Leader. He set up in formation, but thanks to that one movement guide, I was able to get behind him and direct the fight into a pretty tight section of asteroid field, which resulted in a lot of his ships running into each other. Both Carnors ate it early, but Lt. Sorrir's low pilot skill was actually crucial, because with how tight the actual battle zone was, I was able to basically force all of his ships to blob up on Sorrir every round, which gave Soontir a lot of room to dip in and out taking potshots. The round ended before I was able to rout him, but things were headed strongly in that directioni. Round 3 was Miranda, regen Poe, and a HWK. I was able to take down the HWK, and Poe ended up isolated for the initial part of the battle, but the TLCs on Miranda ultimately proved to be too much. Still managed to strip Miranda's shields, though! Picked up StarViper afterwards--Autothrusters are going to be such a giant help, my Stealth Devices have been getting stripped way too quick.
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Jan 4, 2016 18:15
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guts and bolts posted:I'd almost argue that it's the other way around - that the Aces on the T-70 currently don't make very much sense - but I'm still new to the game, and I'm still learning how valuable things are to the game's point and action economies. So, you know, caveat emptor, and that. But outside of Poe Dameron, arguably the best Ace pilot currently in the game, the T-70 Aces are: You're not wrong, but your right for the wrong reasons. The T-70 vs TIE Fighter comparison is pointless, because the T-70 is not competing for list points with the TIE Fighter. The relevant comparison is Blue Squadron Novice (T-70) vs Blue Squadron Pilot (B-Wing). For 2 less points, the B-Wing has: -Same offense. - +2 shield HP, -1 green dice. In the average game, a single green dice will not prevent 2 damage. This makes the B-Wing more durable. - Swap boost for barrel roll, which is arguably more useful on low PS mooks. - Swaps Tech upgrade slot for System upgrade slot, which, given the currently available System/Tech cards, is a vastly more useful slot. - Slightly worse dial The generic T-70 pilots suffer for the same reason that their T-65 brethren do - They do the same job as a B-Wing, but worse. The comparison isn't as one-sided as for the T-65, but still. Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 18:29
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The T-70's dial is a hundred percent better than a B-wing's, and green dice add up faster the more you use them. Against TIE Fighters, you're going to earn back your points quick. B-wings melt under fire, T-70s can at least hope their dice roll hot.
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Jan 4, 2016 18:34
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With TLTs in play, that second green die is critical. Bringing B-Wings is rough with the current meta, as they basically take 2 damage per turn per TLT. A list with massed B-Wings is still probably good, but 1 or 2 is much more a liability these days.
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Jan 4, 2016 18:37
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Strobe posted:The T-70's dial is a hundred percent better than a B-wing's, and green dice add up faster the more you use them. Against TIE Fighters, you're going to earn back your points quick. B-wings melt under fire, T-70s can at least hope their dice roll hot. The difference in dials honestly isn't all that great. The T-70 has the Tallon Roll, which is a gimmick that I've never seen used to much effect. They have the same green maneuvers, they both have white turns. Against TIE Fighters, the T-70s 2 green are going to be much more useful than the B's 1 green, but against 3 dice attackers it doesn't matter as much. Against something like Soontir/Vader/Palp or TLTs, the difference between 2 and 1 green is only very rarely going to be more than 2 HP.
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Jan 4, 2016 18:37
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The generic 24-point T-70 is not a primo jouster the way the B wing or the Rookie+IA+R2 are(they're both very similar in terms of jousting), and generally generics are good for their jousting ability more than anything else. Poe Dameron is what makes the T-70 to me, its dial is nothing special, about average(the academy TIE has more broadly useful maneuvers).
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Jan 4, 2016 18:41
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Geisladisk posted:The difference in dials honestly isn't all that great. The T-70 has the Tallon Roll, which is a gimmick that I've never seen used to much effect. They have the same green maneuvers, they both have white turns. Against TIE Fighters, the T-70s 2 green are going to be much more useful than the B's 1 green, but against 3 dice attackers it doesn't matter as much. Against something like Soontir/Vader/Palp or TLTs, the difference between 2 and 1 green is only very rarely going to be more than 2 HP. The B-wing does not have a green three forward and has red 3 banks and 4 forward. It lacks a hard 3 entirely, and its hard 1 is red. It also lacks a k turn of any good length, making it much easier to block on the merge. The difference in dials is huge.
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Jan 4, 2016 18:51
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