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Salt Fish posted:2 wrongs don't make a right fyi No, they don't. But there needs to be equality, and there isn't. The double standard just keeps going and going, because the Republicans will always protect their racist, neo-confederate base.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:09
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cunny mcalister posted:Inaction and inconsistency. It shouldn't take 2 years to build a case against people that point guns and threaten violence while allowing those possibly involved to do the same thing again thousands of miles away. *bangs fist on table* i need this case built by the end of the quarter, agent johnson, or it'll be your gun and badge! and i need a conviction god drat it! we've got quotas to meet!
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Jan 7, 2016 23:10
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cunny mcalister posted:Inaction and inconsistency. It shouldn't take 2 years to build a case against people that point guns and threaten violence while allowing those possibly involved to do the same thing again thousands of miles away. This situation shouldn't even have started, let alone get to this point. cunny mcalister is literally afraid of the hillbillies lol
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Jan 7, 2016 23:10
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Popular Thug Drink posted:*bangs fist on table* i need this case built by the end of the quarter, agent johnson, or it'll be your gun and badge! and i need a conviction god drat it! we've got quotas to meet! Well officer, I know you caught me speeding, but can we just wait a few years and build up a case instead of ticketing me, I may drunk drive in the future and that is a bigger crime.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:12
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Talmonis posted:No, they don't. But there needs to be equality, and there isn't. The double standard just keeps going and going, because the Republicans will always protect their racist, neo-confederate base. Please engage your brain on this. We have this scenario: 1) Police respond with inappropriate violence to situation A 2) Police respond appropriately to situation B Now what you're telling me is that because these things should be equal that we must have the police respond with inappropriate violence to situation B. Do you see why it would be better to make them equal by having the police react appropriately to situation A?
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Jan 7, 2016 23:17
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Who What Now posted:What the gently caress should we be producing? Who gives a poo poo whether a thread on comedy forum something awful dot com is "productive"? This is dumber than arguing about tone. Nah, it was pretty fun reading until it became an outrage-off. And I don't like your tone.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:17
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I hope they hold out till the end of this year and Obama drone strikes them on the last day in office.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:18
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Salt Fish posted:Please engage your brain on this. We have this scenario: Also can you imagine how worse it will be for minorities if they're ok with putting down white protests violently.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:19
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What will you do next Mr. President? "I'm going birdwatching" *revs minigun*
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Jan 7, 2016 23:19
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Venom Snake posted:What will you do next Mr. President? Keep going....
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Jan 7, 2016 23:20
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Al! posted:Also can you imagine how worse it will be for minorities if they're ok with putting down white protests violently. Has literally anyone in this thread advocated for violence against these protesters?
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Jan 7, 2016 23:20
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Radbot posted:Has literally anyone in this thread advocated for violence against these protesters? Yes, plenty. Has anyone advocated that they not be prosecuted?
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Jan 7, 2016 23:21
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^^^^^ PTD Spun Dog posted:Nah, it was pretty fun reading until it became an outrage-off. And I don't like your tone. Careful, you're gonna be D.Vox out of a gimmick.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:22
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Salt Fish posted:Please engage your brain on this. We have this scenario: I understand what you are saying here, but my perspective is that this is 3) Police take don't "respond" to situation B as much as they monitor situation B and then do nothing when situation C happens. I'm getting flack about lumping Ammon in with his father, but isn't that the purpose of monitoring these situations; so that we can identify associates and prevent further actions? That is the inaction I refer to, that if they were monitoring the situation and keeping tabs on those associated with those involved initially, shouldn't action happened to prevent situation C?
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Jan 7, 2016 23:23
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Radbot posted:Sorry, we've decided that asking ourselves why unarmed minorities are dragged away and sometimes murdered over protests while self-declared traitors armed to the teeth are given the benefit of the doubt is not worth talking about. Because the unarmed minorities are protesting in the jurisdiction of racist police departments known for treating minorities badly, utilizing excessive force against pretty much anyone who inconveniences them, and often exacting illegal violence against them for no reason. In fact, they're often protesting because of that illegal and unreasonable racist treatment. These self-declared traitors, on the other hand, are protesting in the jurisdiction of a law enforcement agency known for being slow, measured, and methodical, has a doctrinal and institutional aversion to engaging in violence if it is at all avoidable, is very careful of recent court decisions that hold that declaring yourself an enemy of the United States willing to wage war against them is "mere words" and protected speech, and is so much better on racial issues that it's the organization that investigates other law enforcement agencies accused of racism. cunny mcalister posted:Says the guy that refuses to believe that a guy that hasn't been charged with a prior standoff with federal agents doing a similar action is completely unrelated. The area believes the children aren't safe, why is that? Why would this district take a week off because there is no threat? If nothing is happening, why isn't life going on as normal? Because, again, there are different agencies involved with different doctrines, methodologies, and assessments. The school closures were almost assuredly ordered by local government officials or the local sheriff, not the federal government. The local authorities probably don't completely 100% trust the FBI's assessment that they're a non-threat which doesn't need to be raised, just like how the CIA called the FBI a bunch of wusses when they suggested maybe using humane, friendly interrogation strategies instead of torture. Mr. Wookums posted:The FBI was acting against minority civil rights groups well past segregation (which was irrelevant to the FBI) into at least 1972. Oh, the FBI was still racist a mere forty-two years ago, just eight years after the Civil Rights Act? Color me shocked! Court decisions have generally held that if the only reason someone isn't committing terrorism is because they can't afford a bomb, then providing them a fake bomb doesn't count as the government forcing them to commit a crime. And yeah, as it turns out, the FBI actually does provide fake bombs to radical militia members as part of sting operations. Sorry that that's an official FBI press release, so it doesn't come with the same sob story about how poor and misunderstood and harmless the violent anti-government anarchists with militant histories were, but I'm sure if I tried hard enough I could find a tearful account from some far-right rag about how those guys were bullied in school and just hate cops because their dad was an abusive sex offender, or whatever. Mr. Wookums posted:Why were they classified as a terrorist organization? Were they? I thought that was just hyperbole from Radbot because he thinks only terrorists are subjected to FBI surveillance.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:23
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Hey guys maybe being certain about anything is the real violence. It is what it is. We shouldn't try to control each other at all.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:32
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McDowell posted:Hey guys maybe being certain about anything is the real violence. It is what it is. We shouldn't try to control each other at all. The truth, as always, is in the middle. And don't anyone dare try to find it!
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Jan 7, 2016 23:34
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I think the freeze'm out method is 100% correct and I hope they stick with it, I'm upset that this courtesy isn't extended to all people but that doesn't change this, and I really hope this begins an uptick of the right wing yahoos being monitored and taken down because I work on a college campus and it ain't jihadist who shoot those up Even if you give into their demands they'll run off and shoot people (Vegas shootings) so what's the point in taking anything they say seriously? Nothing in except boxes of swamp water from the internet, nothing out until they kneel and kiss a portrait of Obama. Probably some nutjob will get fed up and start shooting other militiamen who start talking about giving themselves up and then poo poo will get way out of hand
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Jan 7, 2016 23:37
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Clearly, we should all take a page from these battle(field 4) hardened rugged patriots and take a step back, look to our roots, and do what D&D does best.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:41
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Al! posted:Yes, plenty. Has anyone advocated that they not be prosecuted? Maybe you can quote them. All I've seen is jokes like Obama spinning up his miniguns. Unless you're counting tear gas as BRUTAL, UNCONSCIONABLE POLICE VIOLENCE.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:43
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Radbot posted:Maybe you can quote them. All I've seen is jokes like Obama spinning up his miniguns. Unless you're counting tear gas as BRUTAL, UNCONSCIONABLE POLICE VIOLENCE. All I've seen you do is ignore or deliberately mischaracterize every serious response anyone has tried to make to your posts.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:48
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Occupying a remote log cabing in the backlands of Wolf's Frozen Dick, OR is comparable to storming a federal office building in DC by virtue of both having the property of being "federal buildings"
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Jan 7, 2016 23:52
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generative grammer posted:Occupying a remote log cabing in the backlands of Wolf's Frozen Dick, OR is comparable to storming a federal office building in DC by virtue of both having the property of being "federal buildings" the Weathered Underground
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Jan 7, 2016 23:53
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Vienna Circlejerk posted:All I've seen you do is ignore or deliberately mischaracterize every serious response anyone has tried to make to your posts. That's kinda what we do here. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 7, 2016 23:53
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Radbot posted:Maybe you can quote them. All I've seen is jokes like Obama spinning up his miniguns. Unless you're counting tear gas as BRUTAL, UNCONSCIONABLE POLICE VIOLENCE. What other than that guy who says he doesn't consider these idiots human?
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Jan 7, 2016 23:59
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Radbot posted:That's kinda what we do here. Oh sorry, didn't realize you were the puppetmaster. Man, now I feel like an idiot!
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Jan 8, 2016 00:00
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So out of curiosity, I wanted to see what exactly was wrong with Ryan Bundy's face. You know, the guy who looks like he got kicked by a mule or had a stroke? It's actually kinda worse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWvNrMq5OAg
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Jan 8, 2016 00:02
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Mr. Wookums posted:The FBI was acting against minority civil rights groups well past segregation (which was irrelevant to the FBI) into at least 1972. Being that the FBI will not state why Occupy Cleveland (which was a super small group who had a tent in the warehouse district. I lived downtown during everything and you had to seek them out in a tent in a parking lot) was targeted as a terrorist organization, but other leaks have shown it was in corporation with banks. I suppose that element is missing here, the same interest groups that wanted OWS labeled as terrorists do not want white people to be labeled as such or have appropriate responses to terrorists (who are white). I'm guessing the banks were more concerned with suppressing an ostensibly Leftist, anti-Big Finance movement than they were with protecting the White Man from the terrorist label.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:05
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You know how those crazy dudes in Iraq/Syria do donuts in their APC's? Why the gently caress don't we just do that in front of the cabin to crank up the embarrassment factor.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:07
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LogisticEarth posted:So out of curiosity, I wanted to see what exactly was wrong with Ryan Bundy's face. You know, the guy who looks like he got kicked by a mule or had a stroke? It's actually kinda worse: Wow, I really feel bad for him. He's still an rear end in a top hat and I hope he goes to jail, but I do feel bad for him.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:09
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Main Paineframe posted:Oh, the FBI was still racist a mere forty-two years ago, just eight years after the Civil Rights Act? Color me shocked! quote:Were they? I thought that was just hyperbole from Radbot because he thinks only terrorists are subjected to FBI surveillance. the trump tutelage posted:I'm guessing the banks were more concerned with suppressing an ostensibly Leftist, anti-Big Finance movement than they were with protecting the White Man from the terrorist label.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:12
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Vienna Circlejerk posted:Wow, I really feel bad for him. He's still an rear end in a top hat and I hope he goes to jail, but I do feel bad for him. There comes a point where even a disabled person can be enough of an rear end in a top hat that they squander all the natural sympathy that comes with their condition. I call it the "Eric the Midget" rule.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:14
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Mr. Wookums posted:Yes, but with how the FBI responded regarding the terrorist label in 2011, followed up by the house in 2012 preventing DHS use of the terrorist label for the militia groups like the above referenced by Painframe, has resulted in protecting the white man from the terrorist label.. They seem to fit the defintion for domestic terrorism. E. I'm phone posting atm so apologies if I missed your sources up thread or something.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:19
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There is a link in the first half regardin the OWS label, otherwise the house in 12 has been referenced. I'm on a phone for the night though.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:26
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I've floated the idea that the Bundies and their cohort could be charged under RICO for damage to federal property, among other possible charges relating to extortion. IANAL and don't know the area well enough- it would be a stretch, but I'm interested in what the broadest reaching set of charges could be.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:34
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Volkerball posted:Part of violent resistance is accepting that you are not going to abide by the system of your real or perceived oppression. They accepted they were breaking the law in both cases, and they chose not to recognize the institution charging them. I agree that by any standard that says the Bundy guys are criminals, so was the violent resistance for civil rights, but I don't see how you could argue those who violently resisted for civil rights weren't criminals. Just because they were right? It's not something that should be encouraged or accepted by the state, and it's more an act of selflessness in striving to bring about change at the expense of your personal wellbeing than it is a legally justified action to take. There's no get out of jail free card based on motive. Hey I didn't respond to this because I had a lunch meeting, but I'm actually entirely in agreement with this as a general philosophy. It's just that I think it's possible for the state to take context into account, and the appropriate response to this sort of thing is very often a softer touch than what people in this thread are advocating. This is entirely consistent with how I like to see other cases of civil disobedience treated and/or how I'd have liked historical examples to be treated. This doesn't mean just ignoring the law, but it does mean that I have profound disagreement with the people screeching that these dudes should be being charged under sedition statues and faced with a list of every minor misdemeanor committed, the same way that I wouldn't want massive forceful arrests of OWS protesters followed by litanies of charges for vandalism/tresspassing/vagrancy/sedition/conspiracy to commit X/whatever. There are obvious differences in the two incidents, but a variation on the immediate legal penalty the Black Panthers historically faced for their brief occupation of the CA state Capitol (misdemeanor charges and limited jail time) seems much more appropriate here than maximal prosecutions of any and all minor laws broken, trumped up terrorism or sedition charges, or immediate putting these dudes down by force.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:34
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Talmonis posted:You're bad at this. The issue is that he's right-wing and white, not just white. Students get hosed because they're seen as leftists. Minorities always get hosed regardless. If some Right Wing hard line muslims took over federal lands, the military would be called in to remove them. What? He said white, not left-wing The issue here is you're just making a lazy equivocation and then playing a dishonest shell game when called out on why its really dumb to say "well the only reason these guys aren't getting tear gassed is because they're
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Jan 8, 2016 00:37
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kazmeyer posted:There comes a point where even a disabled person can be enough of an rear end in a top hat that they squander all the natural sympathy that comes with their condition. I call it the "Eric the Midget" rule. See also Greg Abbott that kicked out the ladder behind him for other disabled people.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:40
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Jarmak posted:What? He said white, not left-wing
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Jan 8, 2016 00:45
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Radish posted:See also Greg Abbott that kicked out the ladder behind him for other disabled people. That's a hell of a mental picture all around.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:55
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