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Victor Vermis posted:Back on track while sticking with the tangent. Semi-idiot story: Everything here rings true/reasonable up until the point where the guy is taken out of a line formation. At that point, what is the purpose of active hazing (not the "you're never one of us") - low crawls, wakeups, etc? Just sadism, and not even the productive kind. To bring this back to Chen, I wanted to figure out what the deal was. I learned a few things that make the cause(s) of suicide alter what I figured was a cut and dry example of a lovely unit. -Chen's parents were pissed that he skipped a full ride to Baruch college and instead enlisted (if only he read the GIP thread). And they disowned him for this. -Chen was a late deployer / addon to his unit, which is guaranteed additional hazing (does this make it okay? no. but will it always be a reality of war? yes.) -He was constantly hosed up - out of shape (supposedly), and forgetting equipment (no helmet for guard duty), for which he was punished On the other hand: -military.com: quote:Hubbard said he was involved in the preliminary CID investigation into Chen's death.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 03:14 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 06:05 |
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MassivelyBuckNegro posted:its not so weird when you think that you were an amtrak mechanic who never deployed. I deployed twice, just not to combat zones. Oddly enough, we got to do the traditional Marine thing of riding on boats, getting hammer drunk in Asian ports, and getting in fights with the locals/sailors/other platoons.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 03:20 |
Thump! posted:I deployed twice, just not to combat zones. Oddly enough, we got to do the traditional Marine thing of riding on boats, getting hammer drunk in Asian ports, and getting in fights with the locals/sailors/other platoons. then it really isnt the same thing, is it?
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 03:28 |
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Zeris posted:Everything here rings true/reasonable up until the point where the guy is taken out of a line formation. At that point, what is the purpose of active hazing (not the "you're never one of us") - low crawls, wakeups, etc? Just sadism, and not even the productive kind. That individual needs to know that they are not welcome. edit: "not welcome" does not need to be communicated through retarded obstacle course shenanigans. You just shun them. Shut down whatever comes out of their mouth at the smoke pit. It sounds like a little thing, but it's actually a big deal when there's all of 30-50 people living on a small patch of land. There were a handful of guys who walked a fine line. We had one who seemingly only had 3 interests: working out, being sad, and Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. He wasn't allowed to draw out a rifle for a while, but he wasn't a bad Marine when he wasn't depressed. He'd even laugh or crack a (clean) joke if he was feeling especially chipper. We didn't treat him like poo poo, but eventually he went to another company and seemingly got along fine there. Great. We had a Sergeant throw in the towel towards the end of a deployment. We had fuckall for NCOs and really couldn't afford to lose him, but he just had some kind of episode and needed a break. Nobody said poo poo about it because up until that point he had been rock solid. Plenty of other guys go to another company and continue loving up until they're dropped from deployment. They wind up in H&S or base support and, in garrison, you might run into them and act cordially because, at that point, there's zero chance of them ever coming back to murder you in a faraway land through their neverending fuckups. quote:To bring this back to Chen, I wanted to figure out what the deal was. I learned a few things that make the cause(s) of suicide alter what I figured was a cut and dry example of a lovely unit. Victor Vermis fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Jan 8, 2016 |
# ? Jan 8, 2016 03:45 |
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MassivelyBuckNegro posted:then it really isnt the same thing, is it? I mean, I never claimed I was a combat deployed guy so I'm not really sure of your point.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 04:08 |
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his point is he enlisted
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 04:09 |
Thump! posted:I mean, I never claimed I was a combat deployed guy so I'm not really sure of your point. my point is that your experience with the vampire guy isnt relevant to the current tangent the thread is on. you offered the anecdote as if sleeping in a wall locker is somehow relevant to these army retards that hazed this kid to the point he opted to commit suicide.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 04:15 |
Victor Vermis posted:If anyone can find transcripts (or something similar), I'm really curious about the Prosecution's witnesses. The only first-hand stuff I've seen so far came from a Pvt who confirmed that the Sgt was a racist rear end in a top hat. I'm curious how much of the testimony/evidence came from the family. I think they denied the disowning. i dont know anything about military law but, unless these sorts of things are required to be made public, i'd be surprised if they ever were.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 04:16 |
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MassivelyBuckNegro posted:my point is that your experience with the vampire guy isnt relevant to the current tangent the thread is on. you offered the anecdote as if sleeping in a wall locker is somehow relevant to these army retards that hazed this kid to the point he opted to commit suicide. I didn't really explain how much of a hazard the guy was around the vehicles out of laziness I guess, but suffice to say I wouldn't trust the fucker with an ink pen much less a wrench. He had way more issues than just sleeping in his locker and poo poo. edit: And last I heard, the guy is a sergeant in the Army now
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 04:19 |
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ded posted:his point is he enlisted All the text on this page is a lot of words for, "gently caress you if you ever enlisted."
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 04:20 |
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DownByTheWooter posted:All the text on this page is a lot of words for, "gently caress you if you ever enlisted." Isn't that the mission statement and goal of the military?
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 04:43 |
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xthetenth posted:Isn't that the mission statement and goal of the military? If it isn't already, they should change it to be one. That way the military can actually achieve a goal HEYO!
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 04:59 |
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MassivelyBuckNegro posted:i dont know anything about military law but, unless these sorts of things are required to be made public, i'd be surprised if they ever were. Public affairs here. No. You go ugly early, but a lot of things you just kind of realize is not that loving important.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 06:35 |
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MassivelyBuckNegro posted:i dont know anything about military law but, unless these sorts of things are required to be made public, i'd be surprised if they ever were.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 06:51 |
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We had a dude like that (inept and out of shape to the point where it threatened the safety of everyone else if it came down to it) except instead of throwing rocks at him and acting like a band of loving psychopaths whenever the usual smokings didn't change his negative behavior, we just stuck him with battalion without calling him racially charged names and harming him physically. Imagine being in a warzone and not even feeling safe in your own bunk among your unit, what the loving christ
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 08:43 |
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Aranan posted:Do the Coast Guard have any dumb thing they yell? WE WANT TO BE RELEVAAAANT!!!
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 13:23 |
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I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that a guy got hazed to death and basically nothing was done about it.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 13:54 |
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One time my CO yelled at a radio operator so much that the radio kid ran outside screaming, punching his own head. And that was pretty typical from the guy. One time he locked me up (I am also an officer, so you know he was ~serious~) and just screamed "gently caress you" at me in front of the entire TOC - like, without any point, just to be a verbal punching bag for his own emotional turmoil. Anyway, even my rageaholic CO knew when to leave it alone, and we were on a ~90 person FOB. But we definitely had the option to rotate people off the line, or to Bagram, if they weren't performing.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 14:40 |
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Holy poo poo what a toxic environment
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 16:17 |
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MA-Horus posted:I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that a guy got hazed to death and basically nothing was done about it. That's what gets me. I worked with a guy who was hazed to the point of threatening suicide the night before the grenade range, but there was a course correction and staff started to help him instead of trying to force him to quit. His Korean family would disown him if he gave up, so for better or worse he was committed to hanging in. The fact that the gay kid was hazed and (allegedly) beaten up was hosed up. He wasn't even a bad troop just scared.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 16:19 |
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Getting an officer's opinion on reality is like getting a fish's take on mountain biking
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 17:08 |
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thanks 4 defending my freedoms by driving a guy to suicide here is an appleby's gift card for $5 god bless
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 17:25 |
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Booblord Zagats posted:Getting an officer's opinion on reality is like getting a fish's take on mountain biking
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 19:15 |
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No point in piling on the condemnation of stupid opinions about hazing, not much to say that hasn't already been said. Our prior service ARNG guy was telling me about how they had some inspection in basic training that was overhyped a bit in terms of how tough it was going to be. So some genius decides the best way to clean his weapon is to get a little bit of sand and Barbasol in the receiver and barrel, then go to town with it with a wire brush jammed into a drill. A bunch of other guys followed right along and did the same thing.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 19:32 |
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Eh. I know people who use knives and other hard metal objects to "clean" their weapons. The focus is on passing the inspection, not having a weapon that works. Its loving dumb.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 20:16 |
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Casimir Radon posted:No point in piling on the condemnation of stupid opinions about hazing, not much to say that hasn't already been said. I'd say the idiots in these situations (because there are many times this kind of thing happens) are not strictly limited to just the guys doing this. I'd extend it to the arms room and whoever was training them. The arms room for being inconceivably lovely, nit-picky mother fuckers about the dumbest bullshit imaginable in the military but only at certain times and with certain people, then whoever trained them for treating 'clean your weapon' as something you tell people under you to do for half a day because you hosed up the schedule instead of an activity you have to take seriously and spend time to educate people on. So there's idiots all around every time something like this happens.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 20:26 |
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I posted this over in the Get Help thread, but it belongs here too. As a military survivor, I'm entitled to base access, exchange and commissary privileges etc. until I remarry or die (whichever comes first). Apparently there's an entirely different form of military ID for survivors, so my Casualty Assistance Officer took me to the ID office today to get that set up. My wife was a Reservist on active duty when she passed. Her orders ended the day after she died. But because they were under 30 days in length, the orders were never uploaded into the system. So all the system is showing is when she was released from active duty last January when her ADOS orders ended, as such I'm not entitled to a new card according to the computer. We managed to get the people in the office to understand that she was, in fact, on active duty orders when she died. The CAO pointed out that if she hadn't been, he wouldn't have been assigned to me. Then the supervisor of the office looks at all the information we've given them and said that since my wife's orders were finished, I'm not entitled to any benefits. "Does that mean," I asked, "that when a soldier dies two days from the end of their enlistment, their survivor isn't entitled to benefits because the soldier's enlistment was over?" I'm told that is the case. Basically, they said that a survivor's benefits expire when the deceased service member's enlistment would have ended. "That's the dumbest loving thing I've ever heard," I responded. And they almost threw me out for saying that.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 20:48 |
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I'm sure there's someone at one of the veteran service organizations that would gleefully wreck someone over that kind of bullshit. Hell, you could probably call in a congressional investigation on how some office is screwing surviving spouses, or IG (since the CAO was assigned to you by the Army and they're seemingly being impeded from doing their actual job).
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 21:04 |
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Icon Of Sin posted:
+1 Have a friend that just got accredited by the VA so that he could represent folks that were getting jerked around over care and benefits. I think he charges something stupid low like $200 flat, just because he likes beating on the whole org. Tremblay fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jan 8, 2016 |
# ? Jan 8, 2016 21:10 |
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Well, we got it straightened out. The supervisor's problem was that they're used to dealing with living people. Service over = benefits over, pretty easy. The real issue was that the office that shares information with the CAO didn't have a copy of the orders that the CAO did have (which suggests to me that it was more a case of "gently caress that, it's lunchtime"). Anyway, now I'm waiting for some fucknugget at Fort Knox to upload a single sheet of paper into the system so it recognizes that my wife was on active duty when she died. But since she's dead, the dependent ID I had is no longer valid and they took it. So while I legally have access to the base and everything I just don't have any way to prove it. lol army
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 21:27 |
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jfc
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 21:45 |
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burn the army to the ground with the corpses of all the nobles and senior ncos we need to hang. also DA civilians who used to be in.
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 21:54 |
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Oh, I'm also in the middle of disputing a charge for a VA outpatient visit that my wife never made. The date they claim they saw her was the date I went to speak to the Patient Advocate telling them that she'd received lovely treatment. So lol va too
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# ? Jan 8, 2016 22:01 |
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McNally posted:Well, we got it straightened out. The supervisor's problem was that they're used to dealing with living people. Service over = benefits over, pretty easy. Jesus Christ, wouldn't it be nice if they'd at least not be lovely to someone in your situation? gently caress this entire Department of Defense. Are you in Kentucky or what? There's got to be someone from GIP nearby who can get you on base when you can get the ID card you're entitled to.
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# ? Jan 9, 2016 02:44 |
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Godholio posted:Jesus Christ, wouldn't it be nice if they'd at least not be lovely to someone in your situation? gently caress this entire Department of Defense. No, I'm in Maryland. But the personnel center that has to process the documents is at Knox. Basically they said "it's someone else's problem now, we'll call you when it's in the system."
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# ? Jan 9, 2016 02:47 |
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McNally posted:Oh, I'm also in the middle of disputing a charge for a VA outpatient visit that my wife never made. The date they claim they saw her was the date I went to speak to the Patient Advocate telling them that she'd received lovely treatment. Is this dispute mostly taken care of and just now waiting for some VA billing clerks to pull their heads out their asses to remove the charge? If not, I might be able to help by telling you what to specifically ask for to prove she wasn't there as I've helped some of my patients in the the past with similar stupidity.
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# ? Jan 9, 2016 03:07 |
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I heard it the other day and Ive been dying to use it.
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# ? Jan 9, 2016 04:18 |
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Holy hell they're retarded. I know exactly what they should be doing (I did it for the surviving spouses of the C-17 air show crash at Elmo). Have your CAO call daily to get the status from them and as soon as you're in DEERS push you to the front of the line. People let their retarded comfort box office routine get in the way of any loving decency and empathy. It honestly should take less than a working week to get you in DEERS.
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# ? Jan 9, 2016 04:19 |
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There must be an advocate at the DAV or American Legion or something who knows all the numbers to call. I know you have an Army advocate and all but a non-government advocate might be handy. Even if you aren't a member, it's their job.
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# ? Jan 9, 2016 04:37 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 06:05 |
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Affi posted:Eh. I know people who use knives and other hard metal objects to "clean" their weapons. The focus is on passing the inspection, not having a weapon that works. Its loving dumb. One of the younger girls in the squadron had the misfortune of having her tech school boyfriend being stationed relatively nearby. Most of the time distance probably keeps you from continuing to pursue something so fleeting and stupid, not so in this case. So everyone's been getting to listen to her naive ramblings about how she's going to be with this guy forever. A few people have tried to explain how poo poo really works to her, that maybe she doesn't know everything there is to know at 19. I figure it's probably a waste of time, she'll either learn something from this or she won't.
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# ? Jan 9, 2016 07:05 |