Not these assholes again: Bundy sons, Militia seize federal building

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Not these assholes again: Bundy sons, Militia seize federal building

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theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

twistedmentat posted:

http://usuncut.com/news/oregon-militia-descends-into-fist-fights-chaos/
I think the feds should go in and arrest them before they start shooting each other.

they're probably not going to shoot each other

they will shoot at the cops

# ? Jan 8, 2016 22:26

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# ? May 26, 2024 00:30

GameCube: Nov 21, 2006

twistedmentat posted:

I think the feds should go in and arrest them before they start shooting each other.

Why?

# ? Jan 8, 2016 22:27

twistedmentat: Nov 21, 2003; Its my party
and I'll die if
I want to

Because you have a bunch of guys armed to the teeth who are in a stressful situation and they already have trust issues to begin with without people who join adding more stress to the mix with fake credentials and the one guy they removed because he was clearly unbalanced. It's not helping that people are telling them that they are being infiltrated by the feds.

I have come down from any "kill the fuckers" feelings I have and want this to end as peacefully as possible, either through action from authorities or the Militia themselves.

# ? Jan 8, 2016 22:34

Kazak_Hstan: Apr 28, 2014; Grimey Drawer

twistedmentat posted:

Because you have a bunch of guys armed to the teeth who are in a stressful situation and they already have trust issues to begin with without people who join adding more stress to the mix with fake credentials and the one guy they removed because he was clearly unbalanced. It's not helping that people are telling them that they are being infiltrated by the feds.

I have come down from any "kill the fuckers" feelings I have and want this to end as peacefully as possible, either through action from authorities or the Militia themselves.

Also, it's extremely likely that at least one dude there is a federal agent or at least feeding the feds information - the FBI has historically excelled at infiltrating domestic terrorist groups like this. The feds have an ethical and professional obligation not to risk his life if it can be avoided.

# ? Jan 8, 2016 22:45

KirbyKhan: Mar 20, 2009; Soiled Meat

CortezFantastic posted:

Wrap it up guys, Y'all Queda actually figured it out. The gubbermint won't do poo poo cause it cost money!

You got it.

Man power is the issue here. We dont have a clear number on how many Feds are in place. Im guessing like 4. Not enough to even blockade the road.
Because what is at risk, other than your faith in the government. The no man power approach has seemed to acheive favorable results with no bloodshed and a huge savings of man power.

# ? Jan 8, 2016 22:47

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Kazak_Hstan posted:

Or I don't know, maybe he should have been arrested for committing multiple crimes on video, either at the scene (difficult given the crowd) or at any point in the last year and a half. But nope, if you have a publicly subsidized ranch, laws don't apply to you.

so if there are multiple videos of ammon bundy committing crimes on youtube, why hasn't he been arrested? because of the known bias the FBI has in allowing white christian militia to go unpunished?

# ? Jan 8, 2016 22:50

Talmonis: Jun 24, 2012; The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Nessus posted:

I think they probably do have the advantage of being treated very carefully because nobody wants another Waco/Ruby Ridge, but this would evaporate quickly if they killed live humans or took hostages. They would still probably get treated much more moderately than an equivalent portion of black protestors but they would in fact be apprehended.

The Bundy Ranch being another Waco/Ruby Ridge and causing another McVeigh-style terrorist attack in response is basically why the Feds did nothing in that case. When you have a bunch of crazy fuckers boasting about using their women and children as human shields you don't win by sending in the ATF and a bunch of heavily armed federal officers.

Instead Cliven Bundy gets to be lauded as a right wing hero because he took on the Federal Government and won.

As a Millennial I posted:

On second thought...

That still fits in with my impression - they'll only kill people if they can defend doing so by some interpretation of the Constitution.

Maybe if some right wing militias do something as insane as execute a sheriff them maybe, just maybe the Feds will decide that sitting back and doing nothing to avoid a possible Waco+OKC 2.0 isn't actually a good idea since constantly letting militias get away with poo poo only emboldens them.

twistedmentat posted:

That jar of peanut butter is suspected of being an informant. Wait, is that a plastic toy skull? Is David Aruni there?

http://usuncut.com/news/oregon-militia-descends-into-fist-fights-chaos/
I think the feds should go in and arrest them before they start shooting each other.

At this point the best possible outcome is probably exactly that. Militia infighting and killing each other because of No True ~~Scotsman~~ Patriot beliefs would lessen the odds of someone shooting/blowing up a Federal building in retaliation.

Evil Fluffy posted:

I'm not sure if you're just dense or a really bad faith poster or what, but the US government issued a report years ago that was basically "christian/right wing militias are growing and a huge goddamn concern" and the right wing threw a fit about the findings so the government caved instead sticking to their point and as a result oh hey the growing right wing movement is basically unchecked and we get poo poo like the Bundy Ranch standoff and cops being murdered at a Cici's.

Obama_is_a_motherfucker.jpg

I pity Bundy and friends from a safe distance. They've been raised and taught that everything would be good and well if it weren't for the meddlesome, intrusive government that has forgotten the principles that the nation was founded on. So they're acting to restore what they were taught is good and well, only to find that the world doesn't work that way.

# ? Jan 8, 2016 23:14

Tin Gang: Sep 27, 2007; Tin Gang posted:
showering has no effect on germs and is terrible for your skin. there is no good reason to do it

Cythereal posted:

Obama_is_a_motherfucker.jpg

I pity Bundy and friends from a safe distance. They've been raised and taught that everything would be good and well if it weren't for the meddlesome, intrusive government that has forgotten the principles that the nation was founded on. So they're acting to restore what they were taught is good and well, only to find that the world doesn't work that way.

I think this sort of thinking stops being an excuse for anything about six months after you move out of your parents house.

# ? Jan 8, 2016 23:18

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Talmonis posted:

People are upset that 2 didn't happen to these exact people last time. The counterpoint of "the BLM is making a case against Cliven Bundy" rings hollow to a lot of people.

It's actually true, though. FBI investigations into militias take years, not months. Also, they generally thoroughly investigate to find everything the target has ever done wrong and put them away for years, rather than pulling the trigger on a prosecution for nothing more than trespassing on federal property (0-6 months in jail) and impeding or intimidating a government official (1 year maximum sentence). Also, the FBI is super interested in piling up a long list of concrete actions these people are taking, since the Hutaree prosecution got slammed down for too reliant on "mere words" and minor infractions and insufficient evidence that every single member personally shared the leadership's openly stated goals.

Mr. Wookums posted:

I would think someone who advocates that the Feds treat all equally should care. And yes, they are innocent; it's entrapment even if the crime is domestic terrorism.

No it's not. The law is quite clear on this - if you hand someone a bomb and tell them "go blow up this bridge" and they do it, then it's not entrapment, because the proper response to "go blow up this bridge" is "hell no". If a government agent gives you a bomb and you try to commit
an act of terror with it, then you're still a terrorist, even if the government agent helps you pick out a target for that terrorist act you said you wanted to commit.

Talmonis posted:

Intimidation, Assault with a deadly weapon (Aiming guns at cops), Tresspassing, Grand theft Auto, Breaking and Entering, Burglery, Tax Evasion (just spitballing there, but likely), and whatever else they could hit him with under RICO for the ranch shitshow. If they cared that is.

The US's legal system no longer allows people to be prosecuted for "crimes they probably committed, of course I don't have any proof but they're obviously guilty, just look at them". And loving RICO? Are you kidding me? Are you insane?

# ? Jan 8, 2016 23:21

Kazak_Hstan: Apr 28, 2014; Grimey Drawer

Evil Fluffy posted:

I'm not sure if you're just dense or a really bad faith poster or what, but the US government issued a report years ago that was basically "christian/right wing militias are growing and a huge goddamn concern" and the right wing threw a fit about the findings so the government caved instead sticking to their point and as a result oh hey the growing right wing movement is basically unchecked and we get poo poo like the Bundy Ranch standoff and cops being murdered at a Cici's.

how did the government cave and basically give a free pass to militias? the report you're talking about was released before the fbi prosecuted the hutaree militia, so why wasn't this right wing terror group treated with kid gloves if the problem is rampant and nobody's willing to do anything about it? i mean i get that you're scared and angry but that doesn't mean your perception of the FBI refusing to prosecute militias is actually true in any way

Kazak_Hstan posted:

Hey congratulations you have correctly identified the reason so many people in this thread are disappointed with the federal response to these people. All I know is he's on video impeding federal officials in their lawful duties, disobeying lawful orders, kicking a police dog, and arguably assaulting law enforcement officers. Why he wasn't charged is beyond me. Personally I think it's because the political appointees in the department of interior are limpdicks who are worried that bad publicity will diminish their post-Obama employment opportunities and are hoping to slow roll this until it's someone else's problem. Which is loving garbage.

personally, i think it's because the criminal justice process is slow and difficult and, being frustrated and impatient, people would rather spin elaborate defeatist conspiracy theories on the internet in order to make themselves feel better by venting a lot of impotent anger about people they don't like being given special treatment. it's human nature to start talking about how those people get all the perks like welfare and immunity to prosecution because they're really in cahoots with the government

boner confessor fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Jan 8, 2016

# ? Jan 8, 2016 23:24

LeeMajors: Jan 20, 2005; I've gotta stop fantasizing about Lee Majors...
Ah, one more!

Kazak_Hstan posted:

Hey congratulations you have correctly identified the reason so many people in this thread are disappointed with the federal response to these people. All I know is he's on video impeding federal officials in their lawful duties, disobeying lawful orders, kicking a police dog, and arguably assaulting law enforcement officers. Why he wasn't charged is beyond me. Personally I think it's because the political appointees in the department of interior are limpdicks who are worried that bad publicity will diminish their post-Obama employment opportunities and are hoping to slow roll this until it's someone else's problem. Which is loving garbage.

And if he did any of those things while black, he'd be dead. Or beaten within an inch of his life.

# ? Jan 8, 2016 23:30

kartikeya: Mar 17, 2009

KiteAuraan posted:

Probably some insane fundie Mormon poo poo. Last I checked they're Nevada Mormons, who are below Utah and Northern Arizona Mormons in weird, but not by a whole lot.

Mormon here. I have no idea what that guy is talking about, but I'm not well versed in fundie offshoot Mormon beliefs. My eyes nearly rolled out of my head at 'Captain Moroni' though.

# ? Jan 8, 2016 23:31

Kazak_Hstan: Apr 28, 2014; Grimey Drawer

Kazak_Hstan posted:

Says the guy who has wasted multiple pages of this thread insisting the armed insurgents have broken no law.

can you quote the post where i said this? i won't apologize for making fun of people who decry police brutality in some instances and encourage it in others

boner confessor fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Jan 8, 2016

# ? Jan 8, 2016 23:46

SocketWrench: Jul 8, 2012; by Fritz the Horse

cunny mcalister posted:

ONS was peaceful, yet the law enforcement were able to do things with them, including arresting people within the protests, without fear of reprisal. I'm saying that the armed factor is more serious of an issue than your side of the discussion believes. I get mocked for being afraid of the rednecks, but the FBI is literally scared to act on them and their position is the ideal in your mind.

Yes, a bunch of young people in a major metropolitan area disrupting things got cracked down on by the cops because they weren't linked to groups known in the past to be crazy nutters that would blow up a loving building in retaliation.
A bunch of kooks hold up in buttfuck nowhere begging to be oppressed so they can be martyrs to other kooks willing to kill others is exactly the loving same and should be dealt with pronto at the end of a shotgun barrel.

# ? Jan 8, 2016 23:54

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

SedanChair posted:

What would be brutal about it? You do an entry on the compound and arrest the terrorists at gunpoint. If they reach for one of those guns (not an airsoft gun, not a wallet or a butterknife, a real gun) then that's their own fault.

any raid would certainly turn violent, which is most of why people itt are calling for a raid - to demonstrate that law enforcement can and should be just as brutal against white criminals as black. otherwise you'd have the same people whining about how for example the crazy right wing planned parenthood terrorist wasn't brutalized after he surrendered

but in this case trying to keep the bloodshed to a minimum is just another example of the racist police state's double standard

# ? Jan 9, 2016 00:01

Kazak_Hstan: Apr 28, 2014; Grimey Drawer

quote:

oh so now we're holding people criminally responsible for being in proximity to others in a protest? group responsibility? while of course decrying crackdowns on some OWS protests because

quote:

ok, what evidence do you have that ammon bundy committed any of othese crimes in 2014, or are we diving into "he's no angel" territory here

quote:

i mean occam's razor would be that he didn't commit any crimes in 2014 but i guess you can also just assume that the federal government wants to encourage inept milita types if you're into honeypot conspiracy theories, it's your life man do what you want

but just to be clear, the biggest red flag that stands out for you that ammon bundy committed crimes at the first standoff is because he wasn't arrested? do i have that right?

quote:

yeah i'm talking about the guy who insists that ammon bundy was present and committing crimes at the 2014 bundy ranch standoff, and therefore claiming gross negligence and favorable treatment at the hands of the FBI, even though he doesn't have any proof that ammon was even at that standoff

Hth

# ? Jan 9, 2016 00:01

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Kazak_Hstan posted:

Hth

so in what world is me asking for proof that ammon bundy committed crimes a tacit argument that he should not be punished for committing crimes

you are really, truly bad at reading comprehension

# ? Jan 9, 2016 00:03

kitten emergency: Jan 13, 2008; get meow this wack-ass crystal prison

the wheels of justice turn slowly unless you're a 12 year old black kid with a toy gun, in that case the wheels of justice turn rather quickly

# ? Jan 9, 2016 00:04

boner confessor: Apr 25, 2013; by R. Guyovich

uncurable mlady posted:

the wheels of justice turn slowly unless you're a 12 year old black kid with a toy gun, in that case the wheels of justice turn rather quickly

bill cosby's never been prosecuted, obviously there's no double standard. bill cosby and tamir rice are equally related to a white militia standoff in oregon so i guess *heavy sigh* the truth is in the middle and the police are only half-racist

# ? Jan 9, 2016 00:05

Mormon Star Wars: Aug 13, 2005; It's a minotaur race...

Wanamingo posted:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3758570&userid=199204

Give this a read through and then tell me that you aren't making GBS threads up the thread

let's be honest, it's not like anything about this situation calls for quality posting

# ? Jan 9, 2016 00:10

Jizz Festival: Oct 30, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

Desiderata posted:

He is obviously the veteran of a super double secret black-ops team so classified you're not even allowed to know about it, civilian.

Unit 303.

I think you mean Unit 404

# ? Jan 9, 2016 00:23

woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

Unit 1488.

# ? Jan 9, 2016 00:24

slumdoge millionare: Feb 17, 2006; by FactsAreUseless; Grimey Drawer

old dog child posted:

I think you mean Unit 404

Ahem. His clearance is top secret, therefore it must have been Unit 403!

# ? Jan 9, 2016 00:30

theflyingorc: Jun 28, 2008; ANY GOOD OPINIONS THIS POSTER CLAIMS TO HAVE ARE JUST PROOF THAT BULLYING WORKS; Young Orc

uncurable mlady posted:

the wheels of justice turn slowly unless you're a 12 year old black kid with a toy gun, in that case the wheels of justice turn rather quickly

The argument being raised is that the FBI behaves very differently than local cops. It does seem a bit of a stretch to directly draw a line from Tamir Rice to this situation - at the very least, even though the officer made way too much of a snap decision(and in the wrong direction) in the Rice case, there's a significant difference in the immediacy of the two situations, and they were being handled by two nearly-unrelated government agencies.

# ? Jan 9, 2016 00:35

kitten emergency: Jan 13, 2008; get meow this wack-ass crystal prison

theflyingorc posted:

The argument being raised is that the FBI behaves very differently than local cops. It does seem a bit of a stretch to directly draw a line from Tamir Rice to this situation - at the very least, even though the officer made way too much of a snap decision(and in the wrong direction) in the Rice case, there's a significant difference in the immediacy of the two situations, and they were being handled by two nearly-unrelated government agencies.

nuance is so mid-90s

# ? Jan 9, 2016 00:36

Evil Fluffy: Jul 13, 2009; Scholars are some of the most pompous and pedantic people I've ever had the joy of meeting.

Knifegrab posted:

So are they still holed up in that government building?

Your name backwards is BargeFink

# ? Jan 9, 2016 01:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Not these assholes again: Bundy sons, Militia seize federal building

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