Crain posted:

Turns out one of the conspiracy theories going around was that one of the local sheriffs was also part of BLM. The Sheriff's office issued a public correction on the matter.

https://twitter.com/HarneyCoSheriff/status/686646793346527232

herbaceous backson posted:

Doesn't seem to be fizzling out like some people were predicting, at least not for lack of supplies.

Popular Thug Drink posted:

don't you see you fool, the anti-government militias are really feeling empowered to take action against the government by cutting down fences and spraypainting trucks

they're going to leave a bag of flaming cow dung on the steps of the fed next

theflyingorc posted:

No seriously, as long as the FBI continues to do nothing, what, exactly, is going to happen? How is this situation going to boil over?

Thump! posted:

Stealing and defacing government property is certainly a crime, isn't it?

ozmunkeh posted:

I don't think you realize quite how white and armed these people are.

Crain posted:

Well that's not what seems to be the case. Things are happening:

Crain posted:

Right now this is what they're doing, and it's drumming up at least some attention:

https://twitter.com/WandaKTVZ/status/686647283547377665

I didn't think any businesses would be dumb enough to ask for/use the land while the Bundy's were doing this but it turns out one rancher asked them to remove the fence between their land and the refuge.

And they're currently dismantling the fence with the equipment from the refuge office.

katlington posted:

Lmao this is pathetic. What's next for our brave patriots, erecting a gazebo? Getting an old lady's cat out a tree? They're a rebellion in search of a cause.


Is there any confirmation that locals asked for this? As opposed to them just making it up so they look like they've got local support?

Crain posted:

Ammon said that the family told them that not having that land would put them under. So.

hobbesmaster posted:

Leftist groups don't have guns so yes they're an easy target.

Crain posted:

Well they are not acting as if they defacto own the land. Following that video where Ammon basically says some Sov Cit magic mumbo that amounts to "We did a thing, we now own the land, we're going to 'give it to the people'", this is the result of that.

They just opened the land up to a local rancher at the rancher's request (it seems).

So they're not going to leave now. Earlier people were saying "They have jobs and ranches to run" as a reason they'll leave, but now they see this as their new land to take care of.

And they don't have any limit on supplies because they just go to town to buy stuff (or get it donated since no one is stopping that).

So now what? Just let them have it and use it?

The two things people were saying would be catalysts for them just leaving were lack of supplies and them getting bored/having to go back to jobs. That's not happening so do they just successfully manage to steal the land from the US government?

Conservative Treehouse posted:

(a2) During the 1970’s the Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), in conjunction with the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), took a different approach to get the ranchers to sell. Ranchers were told: “grazing was detrimental to wildlife and must be reduced”; 32 out of 53 permits were revoked and many ranchers were forced to leave. Grazing fees were raised significantly for those who were allowed to remain.

Conservative Treehouse posted:

(a3) By 1980 a conflict was well on its way over water allocations on the adjacent privately owned Silvies Plain. The FWS wanted to acquire the ranch lands on the Silvies Plain to add to their already vast holdings. Refuge personnel intentionally diverted the water bypassing the vast meadow lands, directing the water into the rising Malheur Lakes. Within a few short years the surface area of the lakes doubled. Thirty-one ranches on the Silvies plains were flooded. Homes, corrals, barns and graze-land were washed a way and destroyed. The ranchers who once fought to keep the FWS from taking their land, now broke and destroyed, begged the FWS to acquire their useless ranches. In 1989 the waters began to recede; now the once thriving privately owned Silvies plains are a proud part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge claimed by the FWS.

Conservative Treehouse posted:

The study also showed the migrating birds were 13 times more likely to land on private property than on the refuge. When Susie brought this to the attention of the FWS and refuge personnel, her and her family became the subjects of a long train of abuses and corruptions.

quote:

(c) In August 1994 the BLM & FWS illegally began building a fence around the Hammonds water source. Owning the water rights, and knowing that their cattle relied on that water source daily, the Hammonds tried to stop the building of the fence. The BLM & FWS called the Harney County Sheriff department and had Dwight Hammond (Father) arrested and charged with “disturbing and interfering with” federal officials or federal contractors (two counts, each a felony). Dwight spent one night in the Deschutes County Jail in Bend, and a second night behind bars in Portland. He was then hauled before a federal magistrate and released without bail. A hearing on the charges was postponed and the federal judge never set another date.

(d) The FWS also began restricting access to upper pieces of the Hammond’s private property. In order to get to the upper part of the Hammond’s ranch they had to go on a road that went through the Malhuer Wildlife Refuge. The FWS began barricading the road and threatening the Hammonds if they drove through it. The Hammonds removed the barricades and gates and continued to use their right of access. The road was proven later to be owned by the County of Harney. This further enraged the BLM & FWS.

Conservative Treehouse posted:

(i) In the early fall of 2001, Steven Hammond (Son) called the fire department, informing them that he was going to be performing a routine prescribed burn on their ranch. Later that day he started a prescribed fire on their private property. The fire went onto public land and burned 127 acres of grass. The Hammonds put the fire out themselves. There was no communication about the burn from the federal government to the Hammonds at that time. Prescribed fires are a common method that Native Americans and ranchers have used in the area to increase the health & productivity of the land for many centuries.

Wikipedia posted:

The 2001 Hardie-Hammond Fire began, according to Probation Officer Robb, when hunters in the area witnessed the Hammonds illegally slaughter a herd of deer.[32] Less than two hours later, a fire erupted and forced the hunters to leave the area.[33] Later, Steve's nephew Dusty Hammond testified that his uncle told him to start lighting matches and "light the whole countryside on fire." Dusty also testified that he was "almost burned up in the fire" and had to flee for his life.[29][34] The Hammonds have falsely claimed they started the fire to stop invasive plants from growing onto their grazing fields.[35]

Conservative Treehouse posted:

(j) In 2006 a massive lightning storm started multiple fires that joined together inflaming the countryside. To prevent the fire from destroying their winter range and possibly their home, Steven Hammond (Son) started a backfire on their private property. The backfire was successful in putting out the lightning fires that had covered thousands of acres within a short period of time. The backfire saved much of the range and vegetation needed to feed the cattle through the winter. Steven’s mother, Susan Hammond said: “The backfire worked perfectly, it put out the fire, saved the range and possibly our home”.

Wikipedia posted:

The 2006 Krumbo Butte Fire started out as a wildfire, but several illegal backburns were set by the Hammonds with the intent to protect their winter feed. The backfires were set under the cover of night without warning the firefighting camp that was known to be on the slopes above.[33][36] According to the indictment, the fires threatened to trap four BLM firefighters, one of whom later confronted Dwight Hammond at the fire scene after having moved his crews to avoid the threat.[33][34] Two days later, Steve Hammond threatened to frame a BLM employee with arson if he didn't stop the investigation.[35]

Conservative Treehouse posted:

(l) Shortly after the sentencing, Capital Press ran a story about the Hammonds. A person who identified as Greg Allum posted three comments on the article, calling the ranchers “clowns” who endangered firefighters and other people in the area while burning valuable range land. Greg Allum, a retired BLM heavy equipment operator, soon called Capital Press to complain he had not made those comments and requested they be taken down from the website. Capital Press removed the comments. A search of the Internet Protocol address associated with the comments revealed the origin as the BLM’s office in Denver, Colorado. Allum said, he is friends with the Hammonds and he was alerted to the comments by neighbors who knew he wouldn’t have written them. “I feel bad for them. They lost a lot and they’re going to lose more,” Allum said of the ranchers. “They’re not terrorists”. “There’s this hatred in the BLM for them, and I don’t get it,” the retired BLM employee said. Jody Weil, deputy state director for communications at BLM’s Oregon office, indicated to reporters that if one of their agents falsified the comments, they would keep it private and not inform the public.

Conservative Treehouse posted:

Dwight & Steven’s mug shots were all over the news the next week posing them as “Arsonists”. Susan Hammond (Wife & Mother) said: “I would walk down the street or go in a store, people I had known for years would take extreme measures to avoid me”.

quote:

Susan Hammond (Wife) later said; ” I have never felt so violated in my life. We are ranchers not criminals”.

Lead out in cuffs posted:

Poaching in a wildlife reserve and setting fires that nearly kill firefighters are, funnily enough, crimes. Being a rancher, strangely, does not preclude you from being a criminal.

KomradeX posted:

So even if the family didn't ask them to do it, they are still acting as I'd they have the authority to do so. The places where rebel groups can gar away with doing that are supposed be failed/failing states. If they feel they can do a show of force on the Feds in town, how long until they decide they can govern the town and provide law better than the sheriff? Or is the fact they are stealing public land not a problem

They're not in dire straights, hell at this point their suggestions for things to send them is saying hey want to pitch in but can't make it yourself this is how you can help. It started as a joke but gets less funny as time goes on.

Crain posted:

And now The Pacific Patriots are patrolling around town.

theflyingorc posted:

This ranch is not a replacement for their ranch back home.

quote:

For starters, it didn't come with free cattle. They don't just gain the land and now they make money on it?

quote:

Their cattle will not magically teleport to where they are.

quote:

More or less, no part of your narrative makes sense. Yes, they could stay indefinitely if they continue to get donations. But if they don't get media attention (and they're never going to get back to where they were a week ago without firing a weapon), what's the point? You seriously think they're new plan is I LIVE HERE NOW?

Condiv posted:

leftist protest should arm up and violently claim property next time. that way the police will kindly ask them to leave instead of tear gassing, beating, and using sound cannons on them

thanks bundy for teaching us that violence is the only way to make your voice heard in this country

Crain posted:

And now The Pacific Patriots are patrolling around town.

Crain posted:

No poo poo. But they think they do. These guys are Sovereign Citizens. They literally think they magically own the land because they did some ritual. A facebook link was posted that was a video of Ammon Bundy "explaining" this. As far as they are concerned they own the land. And if the government doesn't show up to correct them and let's them work the land, then what difference does it make?

Popular Thug Drink posted:

it's not illegal to drive around with a rifle in your truck in oregon

theflyingorc posted:

The threat of violence. Actual violence would see the hammer dropped immediately.

You're angry at reality, not at society. Dangerous people who are not currently a direct danger to anyone else have a lot of power!

theflyingorc posted:

The threat of violence. Actual violence would see the hammer dropped immediately.

You're angry at reality, not at society. Dangerous people who are not currently a direct danger to anyone else have a lot of power!

Crain posted:

Hmm, yes. *FARRRRRRTSSSSS* indeed.

theflyingorc posted:

...work the land. What do you think "working the land" entails. They're cattle ranchers. Explain to me how you think they're going to start cattle ranching tomorrow.

CommieGIR posted:

CommieGIR posted:

Do I even need to highlight multiple people killed without having causing any actual violence, and multiple protests having been gassed/attacked without any due cause or are you really that dense?

Popular Thug Drink posted:

i mean, it isn't. i'm not sure why the idea of a redneck driving around in a truck with his rifle, in rural oregon, is particularly irritating

theflyingorc posted:

No, because that shows that you're talking about something completely different than I am?

Crain posted:

So you didn't read the post.

"Managing" the land. Selling off sections for mining. The feds aren't coming in any time soon. Why tomorrow? Who said tomorrow?

CommieGIR posted:

Note for all future protests: theflyingorc says if you bring guns, totally expect to be left alone and not arrested or shot. You heard it here.

theflyingorc posted:

seriously everyone, these guys are going to take over thousands of acres of land undeveloped for farming and...uh...? Farm it? They're gonna farm it real soon. They'll just plant some cow seeds

quote:

PORTLAND, Ore. (KOIN) — A data breach by militia at the Malheur Wildlife National Refuge has led the US Fish and Wildlife Service to ask some of its employees to relocate from their homes until the situation is resolved, sources told KOIN 6 News.

While Ammon Bundy has told reporters that his group has not accessed computer files, a reporter for OPB witnessed them doing just that.

About the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge

Because the group is believed to have accessed the personal information — including home addresses — of employees, some employees have been advised to stay elsewhere.

http://koin.com/2016/01/11/sources-malheur-data-breach-concerns-fish-wildlife/

theflyingorc posted:

No, because that shows that you're talking about something completely different than I am?

CommieGIR posted:

A redneck that is a member of a group that has actively promoted the idea that they want to face off with Federal Authorities.

theflyingorc posted:

So the feds haven't moved on these guys for one week, and you assume that they'll be able to sell off individual sections for mining, and other people will be able to set up mining operations there.

Popular Thug Drink posted:

did whatever this group is say that, or are you just assuming that? getting real thoughtcrimey in here, good job ostensible leftists for standing up for this dude's rights to free speech until he says something you find distasteful

Crain posted:

Sources: Malheur data breach concerns Fish & Wildlife

theflyingorc posted:

seriously everyone, these guys are going to take over thousands of acres of land undeveloped for farming and...uh...? Farm it? They're gonna farm it real soon. They'll just plant some cow seeds

Crain posted:

Yes. They did. They stated that they are there to try and "help manage" the situation. They were told to leave by both sides, but have now stuck around to help "keep the peace".

These guys are now paroling around town acting as vigilante law enforcement.