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Muffinpox
Sep 7, 2004

Partial Octopus posted:

I just checked the brochure for the 2002 model. Theres no difference with the brakes between the standard and LS versions so I don't see why the 14 inch wheels shouldn't fit. Must just have to do with tire racks website.

02 LS had a sport suspension option which included slightly larger brakes, which my car had. NB2s had those brakes standard, 14"s don't clear the caliper by like 5mm.

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Partial Octopus
Feb 4, 2006



Muffinpox posted:

02 LS had a sport suspension option which included slightly larger brakes, which my car had. NB2s had those brakes standard, 14"s don't clear the caliper by like 5mm.

I don't think my 02 has the sport suspension option but aren't all 02's and above NB2s? I guess I'll just be safe and get 15's.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007



Partial Octopus posted:

I tried that but the smallest and cheapest wheel it's showing is this 16 inch wheel: http://tinyurl.com/h2quae2 for $97.

I thought I could fit 15 inch steelies for a lot cheaper but it's not showing up on the website.

Partial Octopus posted:

Any idea why tire rack says that 16's will fit the LS miata but 15's will not?

Partial Octopus posted:

It is an NB2. And I can't imagine 15's not clearing the brakes.

I can help you. I ran into the same situation with my 05. It was something like 15" rims would fit on my MSM, which has the sport brakes, but it's a tight fit and the weights need to be mounted specifically to give enough clearance. I went into more detail in this thread, search my post history from around May-ish. I spoke with the Miata specialist Rudy at Tirerack (listed here: http://www.tirerack.com/content/tirerack/desktop/en/customer_support/sales_contact.html) who explained all of this. You can order whatever rims/tires you want, but for a situation like this he wants to make clear the fitting situation; if you're mounting & balancing the wheels yourself then you have to set the weights appropriately, otherwise if Tirerack is doing it (and you might as well have them do so, it's free if you're buying a full set of wheels) he makes sure it's done appropriately. When I placed the order with him he actually had to order it for an NA because even their reps can't force the system to accept any wheel combination for any vehicle (their ordering system makes you specify a vehicle to try to prevent fitting issues in the first place to avoid expensive returns/exchanges.)

Now while my Kosei K1-TS fit perfectly, it is possible that whatever 15" rims you were looking at might not fit due to the inner dimensions. That means that realistically your only way to be certain of fitting is to pick up a phone and call Rudy @ Tirerack! (Or e-mail him!)

Partial Octopus posted:

I just checked the brochure for the 2002 model. Theres no difference with the brakes between the standard and LS versions so I don't see why the 14 inch wheels shouldn't fit. Must just have to do with tire racks website.

Here is a scan of the brochure courtesy of miata.net:

Note the different standard rim sizes for standard vs. LS in the "exterior features" section, and then the "Brakes" listing at the bottom of the "Specifications" section the next column over. Your LS came standard with 16" rims, and with that slightly larger brakes. So yes, your car could run 15" rims (and I highly recommend it) but nearly certainly not 14" rims, and the slightly larger brakes make fitting 15s slightly more difficult. Call Rudy, dude.

Partial Octopus
Feb 4, 2006



Atomizer posted:

I can help you. I ran into the same situation with my 05. It was something like 15" rims would fit on my MSM, which has the sport brakes, but it's a tight fit and the weights need to be mounted specifically to give enough clearance. I went into more detail in this thread, search my post history from around May-ish. I spoke with the Miata specialist Rudy at Tirerack (listed here: http://www.tirerack.com/content/tirerack/desktop/en/customer_support/sales_contact.html) who explained all of this. You can order whatever rims/tires you want, but for a situation like this he wants to make clear the fitting situation; if you're mounting & balancing the wheels yourself then you have to set the weights appropriately, otherwise if Tirerack is doing it (and you might as well have them do so, it's free if you're buying a full set of wheels) he makes sure it's done appropriately. When I placed the order with him he actually had to order it for an NA because even their reps can't force the system to accept any wheel combination for any vehicle (their ordering system makes you specify a vehicle to try to prevent fitting issues in the first place to avoid expensive returns/exchanges.)

Now while my Kosei K1-TS fit perfectly, it is possible that whatever 15" rims you were looking at might not fit due to the inner dimensions. That means that realistically your only way to be certain of fitting is to pick up a phone and call Rudy @ Tirerack! (Or e-mail him!)


Here is a scan of the brochure courtesy of miata.net:

Note the different standard rim sizes for standard vs. LS in the "exterior features" section, and then the "Brakes" listing at the bottom of the "Specifications" section the next column over. Your LS came standard with 16" rims, and with that slightly larger brakes. So yes, your car could run 15" rims (and I highly recommend it) but nearly certainly not 14" rims, and the slightly larger brakes make fitting 15s slightly more difficult. Call Rudy, dude.

Thank you! That cleared up everything. I will call Rudy first thing tomorrow.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007



Partial Octopus posted:

Thank you! That cleared up everything. I will call Rudy first thing tomorrow.

Well glad I was able to help, like Phone and the other guys helped me with the same issue earlier this year. :unsmith:

For reference, this is what the aforementioned 15" rims look like on an NB with sport brakes:

They fit snugly; you can't easily tell from this perspective, but there's little room between the calipers and the wheels.

Great Beer
Jul 5, 2004

I think I broke something in my rear suspension. The back end of my 01 feels.... Loose is the only way I know to describe it. It's not constant but every now and then it feels like the weight shifts during a turn. Almost like the tires lost grip for an instant and the grabbed again.

Anyone have any experience with something like that? Thoughts on what to look at before i start throwing money at it? The tread on the tires is fine and seems to be wearing evenly so I'm thinking a bushing gave up somewhere. Hopefully it's not a wheel bearing or something else expensive.

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006

Have you even looked under it yet? I would jack up the rear end and look under it with a flashlight just to rule out anything obvious like a busted end link or something.

Great Beer
Jul 5, 2004

leica posted:

Have you even looked under it yet? I would jack up the rear end and look under it with a flashlight just to rule out anything obvious like a busted end link or something.

No. I started noticing it tonight and its too cold/dark right now to go look. Im going to jack it up in the morning to look for anything obvious. I'm just trying to get some ideas on what to look at/for while I'm under it tomorrow. Most of my experience with cars is limited to old Wranglers which are a short step up from tractors so I don't really know what Im looking at or doing half the time.

Great Beer fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Jan 13, 2016

craig588
Nov 19, 2005

by Nyc_Tattoo
Does the shifter move a lot getting on and off throttle? I had a torn motor mount and it made the whole car feel sloppy and loose.

Previa_fun
Nov 10, 2004

How difficult is installing a Hard Dog roll bar?

Now that I have a new DD, I want to throw some money into the Miata and make it track-day legal.

Is the Hard Dog well regarded? I see the name thrown around a lot in the Miata community but if there's something better I want to check the out too.

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
Atomizer is on the right track (considering that I had to yell at him for a week about the Koseis). Not all 15" wheels will clear the sport brakes in the rear, but the Kosei K1-TS will. Do a price check between 16" steelies + tires vs Koseis + tires, and that should paint a clearer picture.

As for Hard Dog, for an NA/NB tub, they're pretty much the gold standard. They take about half a day to install, but I was cheating and tossed the soft top out when I installed mine. The biggest pain is probably getting the seat belts to play somewhat nicely with the bar, but drilling holes and cutting the shelf is pretty straight forward.

Cat Hatter
Oct 24, 2006

Hatters gonna hat.

Previa_fun posted:

How difficult is installing a Hard Dog roll bar?

Now that I have a new DD, I want to throw some money into the Miata and make it track-day legal.

Is the Hard Dog well regarded? I see the name thrown around a lot in the Miata community but if there's something better I want to check the out too.

I can't speak to quality but they don't seem too bad to install:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVUzddV0abM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIK1WEceuPA Part 2

Coredump
Dec 1, 2002

Bovril Delight posted:

Agreed. There is discussion and there is hand holding. Pick up the phone and call around. Not hard.

What's wrong with asking for the price people have paid in their part of the country to get a mental idea what to expect?

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。

Coredump posted:

What's wrong with asking for the price people have paid in their part of the country to get a mental idea what to expect?

Stuff is regional and it winds up being a pointless exercise in whining. He didn't give his region/location and he's been a combative dick in the past. I'm not gonna waltz into the chat thread after STR posts about how he paid $1.50/gal for gas and start bitching out the clerk at the gas station down the road for charging $2/gal.

I'm willing to hold people's hands, it's cool, I drive a Miata. What I'm not going to do is turn into someone's personal Googler.

Goober Peas
Jun 30, 2007

Check out my 'Vette, bro


Pick up the Phone :haw:

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006

Coredump posted:

What's wrong with asking for the price people have paid in their part of the country to get a mental idea what to expect?

Because in the time it took him to post his questions and wait for answers he could have called every shop in his area and gotten a quote.

This is AI 101 and not even a Miata thing. It's like asking how much does an oil change cost.

Great Beer
Jul 5, 2004

craig588 posted:

Does the shifter move a lot getting on and off throttle? I had a torn motor mount and it made the whole car feel sloppy and loose.

Hey you got it right. I'd not considered the shifter moving as much as it does odd. Its an old car and every manual I've owned has had it move a little. I didnt get any pictures since it was too cramped but the passenger side mount looks like its been moving (grime displaced, some scrapes, slightly bent) so I'm guessing thats the source of the problems. Everything in the rear suspension was attached firmly, I didnt see anything that stood out as bad (cracked metal/rubber), and the wheels didnt have any lateral movement in them when I shoved on them. I'll probably have to get a shop to fix it but at least I'll know I'm throwing money at the right problem. Thanks goons. :toot:

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007



Phone posted:

Atomizer is on the right track (considering that I had to yell at him for a week about the Koseis). Not all 15" wheels will clear the sport brakes in the rear, but the Kosei K1-TS will. Do a price check between 16" steelies + tires vs Koseis + tires, and that should paint a clearer picture.

I had some misgivings about swapping rims, but my fears were unfounded and I'm glad I did it. Better handling, lighter rims, better tire selection, cheaper rims, :siren: dual valves :siren:, etc. I can't stress enough how much I love the wheel package I got. (Great rims, and great tires that are the next best thing to Star Specs as far as I'm concerned.) Your post pointed out a couple things that could also help Octopus:
1. If, for the sake of argument, you know your car will easily fit 14-17" rims but has 16" mounted, and you want the cheapest/fastest/easiest Winter wheel package, then don't even focus on the size, just go for the cheapest combo. I was going to say something like, "get 15" steelies because they're cheap, just double-check fitment" but gently caress it, if you know 16s fit go with steelies in that size (tire selection permitting.) The only real consideration is that you'd probably want a shorter rim and higher-profile tire for Winter as you'll be dealing with uneven terrain and torn-up roads (at least where I live.) Other than that, though, if the rims are cheap enough you could still not worry about replacing bent ones for the following season.
2. I hadn't considered this, but you could certainly just use any cheap rim that is confirmed to fit; while I'm not in the market for a Winter setup for my Miata, if I was, I know that the K1-TS fit (photo proof provided!) and are fantastic so I could actually get another set of those. I wouldn't have thought of that because I consider them to be "nice" rims (partially because of the reasons mentioned above, and partially because I'm keeping them in pristine condition.) They are cheap enough though so you could totally use them for whatever. The only major issue here is that they're open enough where I could totally see the wheels/brakes/rotors getting packed with snow/ice and frozen. My NA had snow tires on 14" steelies and snow would still get blown through the tiny openings on those and freeze up. I'd have to pop the clutch and break the ice with a satisfying/unnerving "clunk." :unsmith: Your Winters might be more bearable, especially if you've been able to get by until now without Winterizing your car.

leica posted:

Because in the time it took him to post his questions and wait for answers he could have called every shop in his area and gotten a quote.

This is AI 101 and not even a Miata thing. It's like asking how much does an oil change cost.

I'm totally in agreement about people doing their own Googling, but I don't have a problem helping answer their questions if I can, especially if I can provide some productive insight. That's the point of a forum, and if I don't feel like replying I'm not obligated to do so. The thing is, I typically ask a question and then continue to do my own research while waiting for a reply. Isn't that a more efficient use of time? Also, I often post late at night when it's unlikely for businesses to be open, so in GutBomb's case he simply could have been inquiring after all the alignment shops in his area were closed. If he has to wait until the next business day to even call them to inquire, I don't have a problem with him posting a question before that to see if anyone wants to reply in the meantime. Again, I see that as being more efficient; nobody else is obligated to respond, so it shouldn't matter. I don't really care either way in the context of this dispute over asking a trivial question in the thread, but these are my thoughts on it.

Also, I've been wondering, how much does an oil change cost? :shobon:

Cat Hatter
Oct 24, 2006

Hatters gonna hat.
I'm also fine with people asking stupid questions. If someone tells me an oil change should cost about $20 then I know if someone charges $30 they're probably close enough but if they charge $10 or $80 then I should probably keep looking.

GutBomb
Jun 15, 2005

Dude?

Phone posted:

Stuff is regional and it winds up being a pointless exercise in whining. He didn't give his region/location and he's been a combative dick in the past. I'm not gonna waltz into the chat thread after STR posts about how he paid $1.50/gal for gas and start bitching out the clerk at the gas station down the road for charging $2/gal.

I'm willing to hold people's hands, it's cool, I drive a Miata. What I'm not going to do is turn into someone's personal Googler.

That situation doesn't stand up though because when the other people said what they had paid I didn't argue. I didn't even say anything until after the "gently caress you, look it up" brigade piped in.

This thread is worse than miata.net sometimes. I've been "combative" twice in this thread (I guess now 3 times) not because I wasn't satisfied with the answers I got to my questions (which were both asking a very simple question about things people in the thread had done, not detailed "how do I do this thing") but because after they were answered by helpful posters the same dickhead both times come in with an attitude.

The first time I asked if the factory roll bars in an nc were fine for a track day. I incidentally emailed the track operator before I ever even asked in the thread, but hadn't received a response yet and wanted some discussion on the topic because I thought this was a discussion forum. People said "no, not OK" then the track operator responded and said "yeah, you're fine with those bars, you don't need anything more than that." I reported back to the thread what they said because it was interesting that there was a discrepancy between what some basement dwelling forum users said and what an operator of a track that could get sued if something went wrong said. I said if I do it with the factory bars I'll probably be fine" and the same dickheads as this time react like I tried to set their pubes on fire. I replied in kind. I eventually got the point and shut up. I should probably do the same here.

Don't be surprised when you're a dick that someone is going to be a dick back. And just because you weren't "trying to be a dick" doesn't mean you weren't being a dick.

Hikaki
Oct 11, 2005
Motherfucking Fujitsu Heavy Industries
What's the problem with people asking "stupid" questions? This thread doesn't move very fast anyway. You can still make serious business posts while I'm figuring out which one is the go pedal.

Blinky2099
May 27, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Hikaki posted:

What's the problem with people asking "stupid" questions? This thread doesn't move very fast anyway. You can still make serious business posts while I'm figuring out which one is the go pedal.
Here's a stupid question

I noticed that in my 2016 GT, shifting 1st -> 2nd gear requires me to wait quite some time in neutral until my RPMs drop. While driving with someone behind me, I'm forced to either accelerate hard in 1st to make up for the lost acceleration between gears, or accelerate normally in 1st, take forever to shift to 2nd while the car behind me rides my rear end, and then accelerate fast in 2nd to make up for it. I don't have this issue with other gears, as I assume the ratios are smaller as you go further up in gear.

Is it normal to feel like you're sitting there waiting for RPMs to finish dropping before shifting into 2nd? I haven't driven a manual for a couple years, and can't remember if my 350z had this issue or not. I don't remember me being bothered by it.

Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jan 14, 2016

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006

Hikaki posted:

What's the problem with people asking "stupid" questions? This thread doesn't move very fast anyway. You can still make serious business posts while I'm figuring out which one is the go pedal.

There's literally a stupid question thread for stupid questions stickied at the top of the AI page, the point of it is so people don't poo poo up the Miata/Jeep/Volvo etc. threads with stupid run of the mill automotive questions like "how do I change oil" and "how do I do alignment" etc.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3699520

Applebees Appetizer fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Jan 14, 2016

Cat Hatter
Oct 24, 2006

Hatters gonna hat.

Blinky2099 posted:

Here's a stupid question

I noticed that in my 2016 GT, shifting 1st -> 2nd gear requires me to wait quite some time in neutral until my RPMs drop. While driving with someone behind me, I'm forced to either accelerate hard in 1st to make up for the lost acceleration between gears, or accelerate normally in 1st, take forever to shift to 2nd while the car behind me rides my rear end, and then accelerate fast in 2nd to make up for it. I don't have this issue with other gears, as I assume the ratios are smaller as you go further up in gear.

Is it normal to feel like you're sitting there waiting for RPMs to finish dropping before shifting into 2nd? I haven't driven a manual for a couple years, and can't remember if my 350z had this issue or not. I don't remember me being bothered by it.

My manual experience is almost exclusive to my 2001 Miata but that doesn't sound normal. If you don't wait, does it grind or is the lever just really hard to move out of neutral?

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004

A good number of newer cars exhibit that rev hang in between shifts. That's the biggest complaint about the new WRX throttle, too. I think it has something to do with emissions controls.

Sadi
Jan 18, 2005
SC - Where there are more rednecks than people
The solution is to slam 2nd every time and bark the tires. Works purty gud on ma NA.

That said, my 04 WRX does the same thing if im not careful to be 100% out of the gas a tenth of a second before putting the clutch in

Sadi fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jan 14, 2016

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007



GutBomb posted:

That situation doesn't stand up though because when the other people said what they had paid I didn't argue. I didn't even say anything until after the "gently caress you, look it up" brigade piped in.

This thread is worse than miata.net sometimes. I've been "combative" twice in this thread (I guess now 3 times) not because I wasn't satisfied with the answers I got to my questions (which were both asking a very simple question about things people in the thread had done, not detailed "how do I do this thing") but because after they were answered by helpful posters the same dickhead both times come in with an attitude.

The first time I asked if the factory roll bars in an nc were fine for a track day. I incidentally emailed the track operator before I ever even asked in the thread, but hadn't received a response yet and wanted some discussion on the topic because I thought this was a discussion forum. People said "no, not OK" then the track operator responded and said "yeah, you're fine with those bars, you don't need anything more than that." I reported back to the thread what they said because it was interesting that there was a discrepancy between what some basement dwelling forum users said and what an operator of a track that could get sued if something went wrong said. I said if I do it with the factory bars I'll probably be fine" and the same dickheads as this time react like I tried to set their pubes on fire. I replied in kind. I eventually got the point and shut up. I should probably do the same here.

Don't be surprised when you're a dick that someone is going to be a dick back. And just because you weren't "trying to be a dick" doesn't mean you weren't being a dick.

The thing is, since this is a semi-serious thread, the best advice is to just ignore the hate and stay on point. If someone really doesn't want to answer your question I maintain that they can just ignore it, but eventually someone will probably help you if they have an answer. Even though I'm a total rear end in a top hat, I try to be civil as possible here because this is one of the places where I'm genuinely interested in having a serious discussion.

Hikaki posted:

What's the problem with people asking "stupid" questions? This thread doesn't move very fast anyway. You can still make serious business posts while I'm figuring out which one is the go pedal.

Yeah, this is another good point. The thread is slow enough where there isn't really a need to worry about uninteresting "filler" posts. The thread has picked up recently, with as much as *gasp* a dozen posts a day, but there have been days with no input. Stupid question posts should not even be an issue.

Blinky2099 posted:

Here's a stupid question

I noticed that in my 2016 GT, shifting 1st -> 2nd gear requires me to wait quite some time in neutral until my RPMs drop. While driving with someone behind me, I'm forced to either accelerate hard in 1st to make up for the lost acceleration between gears, or accelerate normally in 1st, take forever to shift to 2nd while the car behind me rides my rear end, and then accelerate fast in 2nd to make up for it. I don't have this issue with other gears, as I assume the ratios are smaller as you go further up in gear.

Is it normal to feel like you're sitting there waiting for RPMs to finish dropping before shifting into 2nd? I haven't driven a manual for a couple years, and can't remember if my 350z had this issue or not. I don't remember me being bothered by it.

Interesting, my cars have always had resistance in the opposite way, going from 2 -> 1 (while in motion.) Then again, my newest car is >10 years old so this may be a "newer" car thing. Even if it's a "feature," I have a few thoughts: just accelerate hard in first gear to begin with (unless you're still in the break-in period, I guess) because the Miata isn't made to be driven gingerly like my dead grandma would drive. Second, how long is this shifting/waiting period? I can't imagine this takes more than a couple seconds, max, so I don't see what the problem is. Maybe if you could post a video so those of us without shiny new NDs can understand better? :confused: Also, regardless of all the aforementioned, can you just try to drive/shift normally, but gently press the shifter towards second and let it go in when it's ready? I've always found that the transmission goes into gear willingly when the revs are matched.

Chriskory
Aug 18, 2004

Back when I was actively driving I drove Akina even in my dreams
The delay is some engine mapping trying to improve emissions and fuel economy.

When the manual transmission eventually dies, it'll be because of the tiny amount of fuel wasted when you're spontaneously letting off the throttle whenever the gently caress you want.

It's also part of why automatics are now posting higher fuel economy numbers than manual transmission options. With integrated transmission and engine programing you don't waste those little drops whenever the dumb human wants to do something on their own, like change gear.

But even with a manual the throttle position sensor evens out your inputs to save fuel.

lookslikerain
Jan 10, 2014

If you find yourself in a social situation, make threats.

This is the first full winter I'll be driving my NC2 around and we finally got some real winter weather.

It's actually a lot of fun if you're not stupid about it.

This on the other hand is getting boring fast. Not the clearing snow off but the digging a loving trench to get it out.

djfooboo
Oct 16, 2004




Been driving my NB1 with cheap snow tires and it has been a blast except for when there is solid ice.

Blinky2099
May 27, 2007

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
Found a place that would do wheel alignment on my 2016 GT with custom settings + let me sit in the car. The factory alignment was close enough to Phone's suggestions that they just didn't touch it and didn't charge me a dime. (If they were wrong, and I should really make adjustments towards Phone's recommendations, let me know and I'll go back and do it.)

Managed to get a comparison of alignment between sitting and not sitting in the car.

Initial: me sitting in the driver's seat (~165lbs)
Final: empty
2016, grand touring wheels and suspension, everything stock.

Blinky2099 fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jan 14, 2016

Boogalo
Jul 8, 2012

Meep Meep




Sadi posted:

The solution is to slam 2nd every time and bark the tires. Works purty gud on ma NA.

That said, my 04 WRX does the same thing if im not careful to be 100% out of the gas a tenth of a second before putting the clutch in

In the case of the '04 WRX, it just has an insanely short 1st in relation to 2nd. 2-3-4-5 are much closer in ratio.

:hf: miata and impreza club

Boogalo fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jan 14, 2016

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。
It's good that your settings out of the factory weren't horrific and that you found a shop, but you probably want to at least get some more camber up front and to eliminate the toe.

Good stuff.

Muffinpox
Sep 7, 2004
-2 camber and 0 toe front :getin:

FatCow
Apr 22, 2002
I MAP THE FUCK OUT OF PEOPLE
Make it 3* and you are my race car. :v

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007



lookslikerain posted:

This is the first full winter I'll be driving my NC2 around and we finally got some real winter weather.

It's actually a lot of fun if you're not stupid about it.

This on the other hand is getting boring fast. Not the clearing snow off but the digging a loving trench to get it out.



I used to describe driving my Miata in the WInter as "predictable." Not the best thing to be in in the snow, but it pretty much does what you'd expect it to do.

Now that I have an AWD SUV for the Winter I'm never going back, though.

TheNothingNew
Nov 10, 2008
All right, bitching time 'cause I feel like I'm about to lose my head.

1995 miata 1.8L manual.

Short version: When does replacing the rear main seal not resolve an oil leak from the rear main seal?

Long version:
Maybe 4 months ago I got my car back from my local shop after having a clutch kit put in (actual issue was a spun pilot bearing, but given an unknown clutch age went ahead and had them do that). A week later I notice there's fluid pissing from the transmission weep hole and was told (thanks to this thread) that it was probably the rear main seal. At this point I figure the shop has hosed me, or the person doing the work was incompetent.

Options there are to remove the engine+transmission or to drop just the transmission. Went with option number 2 since I have minimal car knowledge and that one made the most sense to me.

Transmission out, clutch off, flywheel off, ayup that's oil behind that odd transmission buffer plate thing.

Removed the seal. Didn't seem particularly old, maybe the shop did put a new one in but didn't do it right? Lotta warnings about how this ring needs to be flush.

Put the new seal in, put on the flywheel & clutch and call it a night. Go out next morning to take a run at the transmission housing and notice there's a new drop on the cardboard. Yup, that's wet.

Clearly I messed up, then. Remove clutch plate and flywheel again, get a bit of wooden dowel rod and carefully tap the seal more perfectly in place. Didn't really seem out of place to me but whatever. Attach flywheel and clutch plate, wrestle the bastard transmission housing back in place (including having to undo and then re-so everything because I managed to pinch the front oxygen sensor cable between the housing and the flywheel) and called it good enough for the day. Good thing because I managed to hurt my back trying to bench-wiggle the transmission in place and hadn't noticed it yet.

That was last Sunday. This morning I checked the weep hole before work and OH LOOK IT'S DAMP AGAIN.

I don't know what to do here. Current idea is to just throw everything back together and hope for the best, but I'm not placing much faith in that since it's leaking and the oil hasn't been above freezing in a while. As it warms up it's going to become more fluid and leak more, right?

This has been enough of a learning experience. I just want to drive this thing, even if it is in the snow.

Thanks for letting me vent. If anyone has ideas/suggestions, speak up.
fakeedit: realized I've compressed time here. This process has eaten my weekends for the past 2 months. As I said, learning experience.

Chriskory
Aug 18, 2004

Back when I was actively driving I drove Akina even in my dreams
It seems like you could have replaced the clutch yourself? Did this shop try and recommend a rear main on the clutch job, it's unclear from your working what you asked them to do.

If you're abandoning going back to the shop for them to correct the issue, then are you positive you've followed the oil to it's source (anything above the rear main going down and back?)




In the future I think building communication with the service advisor and trusting them to resolve issues with their work would be the simplest solution.


Chriskory fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Jan 16, 2016

Applebees Appetizer
Jan 23, 2006

Yeah you should have taken it back, a new clutch almost always involves a new seal, and if it wasn't leaking before you took it there they obviously hosed it up. But since you're beyond that point anyway, the only thing i can think of is you didn't get it in properly. Changing out seals is not an easy process, you have to get the new seal in PERFECTLY the first time. What did you use to put it in? Because if you didn't use a seal installation tool, or something like a big socket the same size as the seal you most definitely hosed it up and need to get a new seal and start over.

That being said, unless it's a steady leak, I wouldn't even worry about it until you have the time to fix it just make sure you keep an eye on the oil level.

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TheNothingNew
Nov 10, 2008

Chriskory posted:

It seems like you could have replaced the clutch yourself? Did this shop try and recommend a rear main on the clutch job, it's unclear from your working what you asked them to do.

Knowing what I do now, yeah probably. But this has been like a 4 month process, and prior to it the most advanced thing I'd done with a car is replace the brake lines with stainless braid.

Sorry for not being clear. The car was in for a lovely pilot bearing, and they recommended that the clutch be replaced at the same time (since the transmission was out anyway). A rear main seal replacement is part of every clutch kit I've seen.

Chriskory posted:

If you're abandoning going back to the shop for them to correct the issue, then are you positive you've followed the oil to it's source (anything above the rear main going down and back?)

Pretty positive. The other possible sources for the oil are the CAS O-ring and the valve cover leaking. I replaced both before this started, and the rear face of the engine is dry above the rear seal. So the only sources for the leaking oil are the main seal (likely) and the oil pan just under the main seal (pretty well impossible, apparently; research is telling me that Mazda used some crazy immortal glue to attach it to the engine).

leica posted:

Yeah you should have taken it back, a new clutch almost always involves a new seal, and if it wasn't leaking before you took it there they obviously hosed it up.

Probably yes. gently caress up on my part: I wanted to source the oil leak first and time got away from me. It was actually leaking before the clutch work, but very slowly. Afterwards it was leaking like crazy: I counted 10+ drips just from backing the car up enough to drive it forward on to the ramps.

leica posted:

But since you're beyond that point anyway, the only thing i can think of is you didn't get it in properly. Changing out seals is not an easy process, you have to get the new seal in PERFECTLY the first time. What did you use to put it in? Because if you didn't use a seal installation tool, or something like a big socket the same size as the seal you most definitely hosed it up and need to get a new seal and start over.

Yeah, I think starting over is where it's at. poo poo.

The seal I just pressed in with my fingers, then laid a couple of wooden boards over the seal and tapped them. Was a tip I picked up somewhere that is supposed to prevent the seal from sinking below the engine surface level. After that was clearly leaking, I took a wooden dowel and tapped that all around the seal in the hopes that would be more precise.

Nah, I don't have a seal installation tool or a ~3" diameter socket. Anyone make a cheap one? Because it looks like I'm starting over. Right after I take another hard look at transmission jack prices, because doing that with a car jack was painful.

Chriskory posted:

In the future I think building communication with the service advisor and trusting them to resolve issues with their work would be the simplest solution.

Yuuuup. My thought was that if they messed it up once, I couldn't trust them to get it right a second time.... which is a stupid thought. Everyone makes the occasional mistake.

Thanks for the advice, folks. As frustrating as this is, at least I'm learning.

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