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trickybiscuits posted:This pisses me off so bad. The residents of Burns must be furious/terrified. Then I remember that none of these people are going to do anything for the four people left at the wildlife refuge and feel better. Someone earlier in the thread posted an excerpt from Finicum's novel, in which the obvious self-insert has been apprehended and interrogated by the evil government agents, but manages to pull out a handgun and kill them all. So yes, I think you're quite likely right.
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Jan 31, 2016 11:51
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Kal-L posted:Was it an helicopter or plane type drone? I want to say helicopter because of how stable it was, but maybe there's stabilization software I don't know about. You really don't have an appreciation for stabilization tech until you're trying to use a remote turret in the back of a vehicle that's off-roading. Yeah, we've got some really good poo poo.
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Jan 31, 2016 11:56
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Someone earlier in the thread posted an excerpt from Finicum's novel, in which the obvious self-insert has been apprehended and interrogated by the evil government agents, but manages to pull out a handgun and kill them all. I read on some facebook thread that LaVoy never used the type of pistol the FBI found on his body, always used some different caliber revolver,and it was always on his hip (not pocket) and that it was found at the refuge therefore the FBI were lying. I don't really know anything about guns so wasn't too sure if it was bollocks (it most likely was). They got pretty lovely when I pointed out how funny it was that they posted a photo of him vandalising government property (the cameras) as 'evidence' though. Turns out they get pretty angry when you besmirch tarpman's good name.
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Jan 31, 2016 12:17
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There's one thing that can be said for sure about Tarpmap: He was no angel.  Seriously I just love that these "patriots" get so, so angry when presented with the fact that they're giving a literal domestic terrorist who has caught on video not only the benefit of the doubt but their full unwavering support, and not someone like Michael Brown. Ran Mad Dog fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 12:42
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Roblo posted:I read on some facebook thread that LaVoy never used the type of pistol the FBI found on his body, always used some different caliber revolver,and it was always on his hip (not pocket) and that it was found at the refuge therefore the FBI were lying. I don't really know anything about guns so wasn't too sure if it was bollocks (it most likely was). This is a pretty simple, common, and stupid excuse for pretty much anything. "The gun was planted" which still ignores the main issue here that the fucker wrote fan fiction about killing cops, stated he would kill cops, that he wouldn't go alive, and did the hokey pokey stumble the mother gently caress around while repeatedly reaching down to where any number of weapons could or couldn't be
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Jan 31, 2016 13:14
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FAUXTON posted:It's "Finnacum" 
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Jan 31, 2016 14:28
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Ran Mad Dog posted:There's one thing that can be said for sure about Tarpmap: He was no angel. They really, really need to turn Finicum into a martyr so they can find some way to salvage this month-long stupidity into a "victory". Also, racism.
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Jan 31, 2016 14:30
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Geostomp posted:They really, really need to turn Finicum into a martyr so they can find some way to salvage this month-long stupidity into a "victory". Also, racism. It's been really interesting to watch the narrative around him constantly shift to fit the immediate need. At first, he was shot while on his knees, with his hands in the air - that was based on "eyewitness accounts" as told through Cliven Bundy, right? Then, details emerge that he had run the roadblock and almost hit an officer (this was still before the video), so then it was that the feds shot first and it spooked him and he tried to escape. Then the video comes out, and now we've got the "he was reaching for a wound" and "his gun was at the refuge". If we ever get bodycam and/or sound of the encounter, and it turns out that the wounding theory is a lie, I'm interested to know how their interpretation of events will immediately change and be broadcast to all like-minded patriots to parrot on social media comments. By the way, on the wounding thing - I've read enough news articles about deadly force to know that one of the first things many people ask is "why didn't they just shoot him in the leg?" to which the reply is usually along the lines of "in a tense situation, you can't guarantee that kind of accuracy" or "police are trained to shoot to kill once a situation escalates to the point where a discharge is considered justified." In other words, the entire idea that they had this plan to expertly hit Finicum in the side, in order to make him reflexively reach toward his side, which could then be interpreted as "he's got a gun", justifying the use of deadly force, is all just more imaginary movie gun bullshit - at least in my opinion. Like, what a ridiculous plan! What if he didn't exit the vehicle, or the shot intending to wound missed its mark and hit him in the arm or foot, or even killed him? What if it missed entirely? Why would they need to invent some kind of bizarre plot that required precise, expert aim and timing?
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Jan 31, 2016 15:00
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There was a sharpshooter on the
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Jan 31, 2016 15:03
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trickybiscuits posted:There are some photos of Finicum wearing a shoulder holster with the gun on his left side, which is probably why he appeared to be reaching his arm across in the video. I don't think this was suicide by cop. I think he was really going to try to take at least one of them out and, fortunately, failed. I don't know. His behaviour seems more consistent with the idea of someone trying to get shot by the feds while not actually brandishing a firearm than with any other explanation. It looks like he's making a big show of going for his gun, is surprised at not getting shot the first time, and so has another go. Unfortunately, it's difficult to discern what these people actually think since they have such wildly inaccurate self images. Finnacum appeared to be a true believer. trickybiscuits posted:That honking-and-driving video also pissed me off so much that I went and did some more work on a sewing project I started over a month ago, so this evening is turning out pretty well for me. The idea of someone angrily sewing the poo poo out of something tickles me enormously. Roblo posted:I read on some facebook thread that LaVoy never used the type of pistol the FBI found on his body, always used some different caliber revolver,and it was always on his hip (not pocket) and that it was found at the refuge therefore the FBI were lying. I don't really know anything about guns so wasn't too sure if it was bollocks (it most likely was). Yeah, that's nonsense - SocketWrench is right, and even if it did matter, there are photographs of him with an automatic pistol in a shoulder holster (as trickybiscuits points out above). I don't know much about firearms either, but I would have thought that wearing a firearm at the hip would be inappropriate for a car journey anyway.
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Jan 31, 2016 15:07
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Perfectly Safe posted:Yeah, that's nonsense - SocketWrench is right, and even if it did matter, there are photographs of him with an automatic pistol in a shoulder holster (as trickybiscuits points out above). I don't know much about firearms either, but I would have thought that wearing a firearm at the hip would be inappropriate for a car journey anyway. That was what I was thinking, it looked like bullshit. What I was after was the evidence that he had used another gun, making it really obvious bullshit. Thanks for that. And yeah, the idea that they would shoot him so precisely that he would look like he was reaching for a gun is just hilarious. I've never seen footage of someone immediately reaching for a gunshot wound before.
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Jan 31, 2016 15:20
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Roblo posted:I've never seen footage of someone immediately reaching for a gunshot wound before. I'm sure there is absolutely no connection between that being how it works in movies, and that being what the crazy narrative suggested here is.
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Jan 31, 2016 16:06
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For those who have read my Authoritarian thread, what we are witnessing w/r/t Finicum'a death are what I call "Outer Narrative's. Outer Narratives do not need to resemble reality in any way and they will shift and twist and contort and it will not give any Narrativists a moments pause. The truthfulness and accuracy of an Outer Narrative is irrelevant.
Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 16:10
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Luna Was Here posted:The microsoft hyperlapse stuff is probably some of the best i've seen How the hell does this work? 
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Jan 31, 2016 16:13
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Roblo posted:That was what I was thinking, it looked like bullshit. What I was after was the evidence that he had used another gun, making it really obvious bullshit. Thanks for that. These idiots have seen it loads times! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS_RyDppUp8&t=40s
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Jan 31, 2016 16:14
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Jesus loving christ this stuff is painful to read; quote:Angelo Iarussi I agree with Prester Jane that reality has no impact in their narrative. This person is questioning whether the feds at the roadblock knew they were being filmed??!? Who does Angelo think was filming this? A PATRIOT AIRCREW in an invisible plane or something? Maybe a PATRIOT CIVILIAN DRONE or something. I'm kind of surprised that the FBI hasn't release photographs of the vehicle to show bullet holes (or the lack thereof) just to shut off this stupid speculation. There is a certain amount of chatter on the III% sites about getting people with cameras to the location of the impounded truck to take pictures of the "hundreds of bullet holes" and poo poo like that. No results yet of course.
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Jan 31, 2016 16:33
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ChlamydiaJones posted:Jesus loving christ this stuff is painful to read; Maybe the FBI also figures that the militia types will never believe anything they say anyway, so why even bother trying to refute their invented conspiracies when they'll just turn on a dime to invent a new one in the face of new evidence? Like, let's say they show pictures of the vehicle and it isn't riddled with bullet holes? Someone will just point out some minor, almost imperceptible detail that "proves" it's not the real car.
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Jan 31, 2016 16:37
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Leofish posted:Maybe the FBI also figures that the militia types will never believe anything they say anyway, so why even bother trying to refute their invented conspiracies when they'll just turn on a dime to invent a new one in the face of new evidence? Oh I agree, it's just painful to follow in real time!
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Jan 31, 2016 16:43
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All the other bullshit about being shot to force hand movement and not actually going for a gun (no, you don't understand he was going for a stick of gum) is fine and deluded and crazy whatever, but how anyone cannot see that the diving agent was doing anything other than assuming that the car was going to ram the roadblock and went to dive out of the way at same time that the driver finally decided (incredibly late) that he was going around it is beyond me. e: For some reason this part of the crazy really has me getting all incredulous. markgreyam fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 16:46
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Leofish posted:Maybe the FBI also figures that the militia types will never believe anything they say anyway, so why even bother trying to refute their invented conspiracies when they'll just turn on a dime to invent a new one in the face of new evidence? The video isn't to convince the true believers, it's to stop anyone else from buying their story.
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Jan 31, 2016 16:51
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Prester Jane posted:For those who have read my Authoritarian thread, what we are witnessing w/r/t Finicum'a death are what I call "Outer Narrative's. Outer Narratives do not need to resemble reality in any way and they will shift and twist and contort and it will not give any Narrativists a moments pause. The truthfulness and accuracy of an Outer Narrative is irrelevant. I suspect what they actually believe is something along the lines of: "He was a freedom fighter gently caress da po-lice 420 gov'ment took my baby." With or without the 420.
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Jan 31, 2016 16:56
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Mercury_Storm posted:I suspect what they actually believe is something along the lines of: "He was a freedom fighter gently caress da po-lice 420 gov'ment took my baby." With the 420 if the quartet of dolts we've been following all week is any indication.
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Jan 31, 2016 17:04
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Roblo posted:I read on some facebook thread that LaVoy never used the type of pistol the FBI found on his body, always used some different caliber revolver,and it was always on his hip (not pocket) and that it was found at the refuge therefore the FBI were lying. I don't really know anything about guns so wasn't too sure if it was bollocks (it most likely was). Who said that, were those people on the compound with him? What do they mean by 'found at the refuge' as fair as I'm aware, the refuge still has not been secured by the FBI. Sounds like another example of a few people who could not possibly know details making poo poo up to make him look better.
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Jan 31, 2016 17:09
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Speaking of "painful to read"quote:In all things, we have sought guidance, and desired to do God, our Father’s, will! We have studied the gospel of Jesus Christ, through his prophets, and try to understand the proper form of government, mostly the inspired US Constitution, the supreme law of the land. Desiring freedom, that all man might be able to exercise his agency.
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Jan 31, 2016 17:15
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They really believe rancher is something more than a profession don't they?
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Jan 31, 2016 17:26
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"They assassinated Lavoy to stop me doing poo poo to your land!"
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Jan 31, 2016 17:29
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It's a popular conceit in the U.S. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AMpZ0TGjbWE
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Jan 31, 2016 17:32
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A man is dead and Cliven is just trying to use it to make himself sound better. loving dickhead.
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Jan 31, 2016 17:35
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Turtle Sandbox posted:They really believe rancher is something more than a profession don't they? Yep. They believe it's still like it was in the days of the Wild West. Or at least want it to go back to that. A rancher to them seems to be akin to a mayor or regional leader/head of state. They control their land and have (or should have) final say on what goes on there. They command an army of Cowboys who are both the hardest working men ever (besides the rancher himself) and the toughest militia men you'll ever cross. Nearest I can tell they see being a rancher as being akin to a business minded warlord. Just look at Finicum's book.
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Jan 31, 2016 17:37
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theflyingorc posted:The video isn't to convince the true believers, it's to stop anyone else from buying their story. Yes, I gathered as much, but when the story changes, at what point do the police stop trying to outdo the true believers? Like I said, if they had bodycam footage with sound, and it turns out Finicum was only shot the once, then the story about the wound is no longer valid, so they'd have to change that and come up with something else. Or do the police figure the wounding theory is unbelievable enough that it'll never stand up to any real scrutiny, so at this point why bother? I get that the aerial footage was important to outdo the "hands in the air, on his knees" story that first started bleeding through, but as soon as this was out, it was almost an instantaneous turn to invent a new reason why this happened. Hasn't this guy been doing whatever the gently caress he wants on the land with zero effective consequences whatsoever? Wasn't that what the whole thing a couple of years ago was all about?
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Jan 31, 2016 17:40
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Leofish posted:Yes, I gathered as much, but when the story changes, at what point do the police stop trying to outdo the true believers? Like I said, if they had bodycam footage with sound, and it turns out Finicum was only shot the once, then the story about the wound is no longer valid, so they'd have to change that and come up with something else. Or do the police figure the wounding theory is unbelievable enough that it'll never stand up to any real scrutiny, so at this point why bother? Well, one key point in the process is when you demonstrate that "stories about Finnacum's death are invented". It becomes less necessary to refute new invented stories once you've shown that people are making stuff up to advance their own cause.
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Jan 31, 2016 17:52
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Leofish posted:Yes, I gathered as much, but when the story changes, at what point do the police stop trying to outdo the true believers? The police don't/shouldn't chase down and counter the story lines that the Liberty movement come up with. They gather the facts, figure out what happened and in what order, gather the supporting evidence of that, and put out their official story. After that they just point to that official account every time the Finicum story changes.
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Jan 31, 2016 17:54
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Leofish posted:Hasn't this guy been doing whatever the gently caress he wants on the land with zero effective consequences whatsoever? Wasn't that what the whole thing a couple of years ago was all about? Yup, now he wants some friend's freed from jail and more land that indians owned. Oh, and the government replaced and executed.
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Jan 31, 2016 18:05
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Why are these chucklefucks crying about the "ambush"? What were they expecting, a showdown at high noon? For all the military fetishism going on, they know gently caress all about basic military/LEO tactics, ie. never fight fair if you don't have to.As a Millennial I posted:Speaking of "painful to read" This but unironically.
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Jan 31, 2016 18:32
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New York TImes reporter spoke to David Fry. They are indeed camping outside in order to PROVE that they aren't actually occupying the refuge (because apparently only the buildings matter?) and therefore hey aren't actually hostile. Just camping. 
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Jan 31, 2016 18:33
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These militants are so retarded that people with Down's syndrome feel embarrassed by association.
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Jan 31, 2016 18:40
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Fionnoula posted:New York TImes reporter spoke to David Fry. They are indeed camping outside in order to PROVE that they aren't actually occupying the refuge (because apparently only the buildings matter?) and therefore hey aren't actually hostile. Just camping. If only Hitler said that, that he was just camping OUTSIDE of France and not actually occupying it.
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Jan 31, 2016 18:45
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Murderion posted:Why are these chucklefucks crying about the "ambush"? What were they expecting, a showdown at high noon? For all the military fetishism going on, they know gently caress all about basic military/LEO tactics, ie. never fight fair if you don't have to. They're crying because the police didn't give them the big fight in which they valiantly triumph over the oppression of usurpers, bureaucrats, and traitors to their true way of life. Reality didn't match the fantasy they live by and they blame everyone else for it.
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Jan 31, 2016 18:53
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Crain posted:
Strip away the Outer Narratives (which do not need to conform to reality and only serve as window dressing) and he basically wants the exact same thing as an Ayn Rand worshipping captain of industry. They see themselves as being little gods with unlimited authority, able to Lord it over an underclass because of their inherent merit. In my Narrativists framework I identify four clusters of Narativists, SovCit's belong to the "Paranoid Cluster" which includes Alex Jones/UFO nuts and the like. The other three clusters are the Economic Cluster (Libertarians, Objectivists, etc), Religious Cluster(Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, 7th Day Adventist s, various fundamentalist factions), and the Racist Cluster (KKK, Neo-Nazi's, etc). If you ignore whatever asinine bullshit (Outer Narrative's) each of these clusters use to justify their actions and just look at what they try to incite whenever they get the chance you see the same,thing over and over. They all want to set up their own shadow government (justified because they have some inherent merit that makes them superior to the general population) with the ability to execute anyone that gets in their way. The SovCit Kangaroo court that they set up is no different than a Sharia court or any number of lynah mobs with the exception that a stable society minimizes the oppurtunity for them to act out their rulings. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 19:03
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Crain posted:Yep. They believe it's still like it was in the days of the Wild West. Or at least want it to go back to that. In many ways they seem to be lost in time. The premise that all wealth is created from land and freeing it for exploitation will usher in a golden age in rural nowhere is about 50 years out of date.
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