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euphronius posted:Child flinches in screen. I think Watto raises his hand at Anakin in a comedic way. Like when Ralph Kramden threatens to hit his wife. It's comedy.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:12
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Zoran posted:D'Qar is the Resistance base planet, a verdant forest world with some beige stone buildings. In the distance, there are mountains shrouded in mist. Oh oh oh oh, I almost forgot about that planet. I honestly only remember that it's got the base on it. Do we get a flyover of it or anything?
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Feb 3, 2016 03:15
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Jerkface posted:The Falcon is not parked near the oscillator. It is parked near the building that they use to get the shields shut off. Right, except that there is no forest (that I can recall) between that building and the interocitor... pit. It's just a huge snowy area, without trees.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:16
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Waffles Inc. posted:Oh oh oh oh, I almost forgot about that planet. I honestly only remember that it's got the base on it. Do we get a flyover of it or anything? I don't think there's a flyover like there is with Takodana, just this shot from space: 
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Feb 3, 2016 03:18
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Yaws posted:I think Watto raises his hand at Anakin in a comedic way. Like when Ralph Kramden threatens to hit his wife. It's comedy. I like the prequels, and I also think this scene and many others are played for laughs. To me, that doesn't detract from the dark undertones. I'm not sitting there horrified because I sympathize so deeply with the characters; I'm entertained and thinking "wow, this is actually some pretty dark subject matter for what could easily be seen as a dumb kid's movie." Like, yes, it's comedy. The fact that a slaveowner is raising his fist at his child slave and that's being played for laughs is very unusual, and in my opinion doesn't line up with the "cynical pandering" narrative.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:19
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Right, except that there is no forest (that I can recall) between that building and the interocitor... pit. It's just a huge snowy area, without trees. No, the pit you're thinking of is between them and the shield building, "The flooding tunnels are just over that ridge, we'll get in that way." There is an establishing shot of Finn/Rey climbing up a ridge into the forest from the Oscillator exit they used to run away from Ren, Finn says: "The Falcon's this way!" I don't know why you're so hung up on this forest, when we see a planet full of snowy forests. The starkiller blast blows away trees, the Falcon crashes through a bunch of trees, theres trees in every shot of the landscape. Do you really need a shot of the main character climbing over a bunch of trees before getting to the other sections? Maybe someone saying, "I hate trees, they're leafy & wooden & they get everywhere!" Jerkface fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 03:36
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Tezzor posted:Lol at you invoking the rule of thirds to demonstrate failures in cinematography! You're so embarrassingly wrong for reasons I do not elucidate! Lol! Shame! I am probably fooling somebody! Yeah I don't want to let you get away with this, because your hastily googled "rule of thirds" post is really terrible: Tezzor posted:
That's an instantly recognizable and iconic image. What's happening (literally and figuratively) is completely clear. Where our focus should be is completely clear. It isn't composed like a landscape photograph because there's no reason for it to be. How could anyone possibly imagine that you know what you're talking about? Seeing that again reminds me of another similar image. Here's a still from the "brother against brother" montage from Noah. You can see it in (very rad) context here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwSWRdbSQK0  Aronofsky you hack! Prolonged Panorama fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 03:47
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Prolonged Priapism posted:That's an instantly recognizable and iconic image. What's happening (literally and figuratively) is completely clear.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:54
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TheKingofSprings posted:Compare and contrast the empire in LoGH with the empire in Star Wars Challenge accepted. So, like, they've both got a Galactic Empire in them. You've got authoritarians who build Death Stars and march around in black uniforms with some impressive Teutonic flair and some high-grade arrogance. You've got multiple Wars among the Stars. The Galactic Empire of Legend of Galactic Heroes is in a protracted war with the Alliance of Free Planets, founded secretly in uncharted space by desperate refugees of ethnic cleansing. The series is deeply concerned with questions of governance, introducing a situation to pose the question of whether an ideal dictatorship is superior to a degenerate democracy. (It ultimately reaches the conclusion that democracy is to be preferred, because when a dictatorship succumbs to misgovernance, it's far more difficult to restore justice, whereas even the worst democracy, as long as it is a democracy, can change its ways peacefully.) There's no revolution in it. Revolutionary sentiment is easy, but revolution itself is complicated. A coup d'etat and a military annexation both occur with remarkable continuity. The superweapons are military concerns and they're used for defense, not attack; when somebody feels the need to inflict an atrocity on civilians, regular weapons will suffice. Such fascism as can be observed exists in the Alliance, where demagoguery means something and the enemy's threat is more existential, rather than in the Empire where the aristocracy is stable, impenetrable, and very skilled at keeping the peasants docile. The Alliance of Legend of Galactic Heroes has more in common with the Empire of Star Wars. They both suggest endpoints for democracy. Star Wars posits that a rotten Republic will destroy itself from within, whereas LoGH is more inclined to say that it will diminish until it's weak enough that any enemy can devour it. By contrast, the nostalgic, anti-modern attitude of the Rebel Alliance, and their desire to restore a lost or imagined state of galactic unity invites comparison to the other opera's Galactic Empire, though it's a weaker comparison. As the title suggests, there are heroes on both sides.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:04
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Martman posted:This is an important point. Except he isn't clearly raising his hand to his slave at all and I think most people would be totally surprised to learn that was the conception of the scene.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:04
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Prolonged Priapism posted:Yeah I don't want to let you get away with this, because your hastily googled "rule of thirds" post is really terrible: Because scenes that conform to the rule of thirds don't have to be "composed like a landscape photograph," as you already know and and anyone who doesn't realize you're being a deliberately dishonest dipshit can tell by clicking on my post that you linked, which shows images from TFA which are not "landscape photographs" or composed like them and nonetheless conform to the rule. Also, the point of the rule of thirds is not that shots that do not conform are "unclear." It is that that compositions that do conform are, in general, framed better and aesthetically superior. It is true that not every shot can or should conform to this rule. The lack of attempt to even bother by Lucas in many cases is a part of the utter sloth which with he approached directing Episode 2 and 3. You don't know poo poo about composition, don't posture at me please Tezzor fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 04:11
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Yaws posted:I see how that lightsaber duel might be confusing for some. Both Obi-Wan and Mannequin (lol) have the same colored lightsabers and there's parts when it's shot from afar. He should have had his red lazer sword at that point imho. I see where you're coming form but I think it's more thematically interesting to leave them indistinguishable from a distance. They both think they're fighting for a clear and obvious goal, but they're both deluded "my allegiance is to DEMOCRACY!" (just decided to keep the truth a secret from the people, faithful to the order that tried to depose an elected ruler and kill him without trial) "I have brought PEACE and JUSTICE to MY NEW EMPIRE" (just massacred the defenseless and manipulated figureheads of an insurgency created by his new boss, whose Empire it happens to be) and not as different as they think. In fact I really like the super long shot of them fighting on the tall fallen bit of the station as it floats down the lava river - they're both hanging on for dear life, slowly climbing up, but taking desperate potshots at each other. We see it from an extreme distance as two blue sparks angrily batting at one another as the skyscraper sized edifice they're depending on lumbers towards a lavafall. It's the futility of conflict illustrated.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:18
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Prolonged Priapism posted:\They both think they're fighting for a clear and obvious goal, but they're both deluded "my allegiance is to DEMOCRACY!" (just decided to keep the truth a secret from the people, faithful to the order that tried to depose an elected ruler and kill him without trial) "I have brought PEACE and JUSTICE to MY NEW EMPIRE" (just massacred the defenseless and manipulated figureheads of an insurgency created by his new boss, whose Empire it happens to be) and not as different as they think. It's good to see that after you demonstrated you can't comprehend basic principles of cinematography and why they're important you then immediately jump into Secret Deep Moral Complexity Theory, lest I had a moment of doubt that you weren't grasping at the thinnest of straws in the vastest of seas.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:21
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A red lightsaber wouldn't have stuck out from the lava backdrop.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:21
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Tezzor posted:It's good to see that after you demonstrated you can't comprehend basic principles of cinematography and why they're important you then immediately jump into Secret Deep Moral Complexity Theory, lest I had a moment of doubt that you weren't grasping at the thinnest of straws in the vastest of seas. When the words characters speak describe the events of the story inaccurately, it is neither secret (because both dialog and situation are clear), nor deep (it's directly on the surface), nor moral (though it can be, depending on what they're talking about), nor a theory (because it's obvious). Before you came along I would not have called it complex, either, but you've taught me that complexity is relative to the mind of the observer.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:25
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Decided to keep the truth from the people (did not do this) Faithful to the order that tried to depose an elected official (because he was a comically evil Captain Planet villain guilty of treason and sedition and mass murder and being an evil wizard) And tried to kill him without trial (because he was an insanely dangerous and totally untrustworthy active threat as evidenced by him killing the strongest Jedi with dark magic mere seconds after crying about how helpless he was and the consequences of not doing this were awful) Wow look at those Deep Moral Questions. Truly there are deep shades of grey here in the magic knights universe
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Feb 3, 2016 04:26
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Tezzor posted:Except he isn't clearly raising his hand to his slave at all and I think most people would be totally surprised to learn that was the conception of the scene.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:26
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Tezzor posted:Decided to keep the truth from the people (did not do this) You're not even talking about the same scene as the one that was mentioned in the post you replied to.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:27
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Bongo Bill posted:When the words characters speak describe the events of the story inaccurately, it is neither secret (because both dialog and situation are clear), nor deep (it's directly on the surface), nor moral (though it can be, depending on what they're talking about), nor a theory (because it's obvious). Before you came along I would not have called it complex, either, but you've taught me that complexity is relative to the mind of the observer. It's not accurate, obvious or on the surface. There is no coherent moral equivalency to be made between the Jedi and Palpatine even in the broadest of strokes. If you really believe otherwise it is most likely because you are mistaken and making poo poo up.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:32
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Tezzor posted:It's not accurate, obvious or on the surface. There is no coherent moral equivalency to be made between the Jedi and Palpatine even in the broadest of strokes. If you really believe otherwise it's likely because you have lost your mind. It's possible that you quoted the wrong post than the one you think you are replying to. Obi-Wan claims his allegiance is to democracy, but he is actually loyal to an organization that was about to perform the extremely un-democratic action of deposing elected officials. (Please note, since I know what you're going to say - whether the act is just is orthogonal to the question of whether it is democratic.) Anakin claims to have brought peace and justice to his empire, but the war was already over, he just finished doing a bunch of cold-blooded murders, and the empire isn't his. The things that the characters are saying are obviously untrue.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:35
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Martman posted:Why should I care about this post? Even Yaws felt like it was a Honeymooners type thing. You're basically saying "nuh uh" and citing imaginary popular support.  Who are ya gonna believe, me or your lyin' eyes? Nyuk nyuk nyuk...
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Feb 3, 2016 04:35
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Martman posted:This is an important point. This is an important thing to note. The prequels are satirical films with elements of camp and dark comedy, along the lines of Starship Troopers. Anakin and the droids get comically awful treatment, like the bug prisoners in that film. I think that's the source of Tezzor's assertion/complaint that it's all a cartoon so he can't care. He is uncritically embracing the narrative that the bugs are nonhumans to be exterminated, the same way he uncritically accepts that Cobra in GI Joe are nonhumans to be exterminated, and so on. He basically immerses himself into the ideological universe of a given film and treats it as objective fact. So if, for example, a movie is fascist (or satirizes fascism), Tezzor becomes a fascist in kind. This is why he is dismissing ideological critique as 'head canon'. It's rather impressive. Jerkface posted:I don't know why you're so hung up on this forest, when we see a planet full of snowy forests. The starkiller blast blows away trees, the Falcon crashes through a bunch of trees, theres trees in every shot of the landscape. Because, if you've been keeping track of the discussion, I had pointed out how the landscape in previous films was used to express the relationships between characters. Obiwan lives comfortably in the dangerous rocky area. R2 heads bravely into this area to search for him. C3PO is afraid to go into the rocks, and almost dies in the desert instead. In Force Awakens, the forest is kinda-used to express Rey's 'true calling', the happy life that she thinks she doesn't deserve. (The island also represents this, because the film mixes its metaphors). The later disintegration of the forest is metaphorical. So they run into the forest after Han dies - but Han hadn't really been associated with the forest. That was Maz. But Rey goes into the forest to run away from Maz's scary basement. But then she's confronted by Kylo both times. It's not very coherent.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:38
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Bongo Bill posted:It's possible that you quoted the wrong post than the one you think you are replying to. Obi-Wan claims his allegiance is to democracy, but he is actually loyal to an organization that was about to perform the extremely un-democratic action of deposing elected officials. Anakin claims to have brought peace and justice to his empire, but the war was already over, he just finished doing a bunch of cold-blooded murders, and the empire isn't his. The things that the characters are saying are obviously untrue. Except the elected official has become a dictator in violation of the law, in addition to being a traitor, dark wizard and mass murderer. Democracy as commonly conceived in a Republic??? has checks and balances specifically to prevent elected officials from acting in hugely illegal ways regardless if they command a democratic mandate. Or did I just blow your loving mind
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Feb 3, 2016 04:39
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Tezzor posted:Except the elected official has become a dictator in violation of the law, in addition to being a traitor, dark wizard and mass murderer. Democracy as commonly conceived in a Republic??? has checks and balances specifically to prevent elected officials from acting in hugely illegal ways regardless if they command a democratic mandate. Or did I just blow your loving mind The question of whether deposing senators based on their allegiance to the head of state (remember, at the time they were discussing this plan, he was just Chancellor Palpatine as far as they knew) is just is orthogonal to the question of whether it is democratic. The answer to the question of whether it is democratic is No. No it is not.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:41
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Anime again. If you don't like that, skip it.   Last time I talked about Victory Gundam. There's two other Gundam series I think can be legitimately compared to Star Wars, and this time I'm going to talk about the original. In some ways Gundam was as hugely influential as Star Wars was, except within the small world of anime instead of all over the world. It changed the game, and it keeps getting copied and homaged to this day. Gundam fans love their "First Gundam" and will turn on any series that deviate too much from the formula. It created the "real robot" genre, where the titualr machines are war machines created en masse to fight wars instead of a one-off super-hero style machine. It came out in 1979, between Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back. So what's it about? And why do I compare it to Star Wars? Well... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeNKubtJB1A It's about a war in space. The enemies are Space Nazis (their leader takes being compared to Hitler as a compliment at one point), who commit mass atrocities in order to try and win their war. I wish I could find the opening narration of the show on youtube, it's pretty great: it starts with mankind having moved into beautiful space colonies, gigantic O'Neill Cylinders (from astronaut Gerard K. O'Neill's book The High Frontier, published in 1976) and then promptly blows them up, as the enemy army drops one (along with it's inhabitant) is dropped on Australia. We are then told that the war has been going for 7 months, is at a stalemate and over half the human population has died (we see a map of the Space Colonies with half of them crossed out). The hero is a teenager who finds himself stuck in this huge conflict and somehow becomes a vital part of it. Later on, it turns out he's a mutant with psychic powers, explaining why he's such a great pilot. His rival, a bad guy with mask (though more a Red Baron-type enemy ace than a Darth Vader) is also one of these "Newtype", a very 70s trope. The fighting escalates, side characters tragically die, new superweapons are revealed at the last minute all leading to a climatic battle between the hero and his rival amidst the enemy's huge fortress (a repurposed asteroid instead of an artificial moon). Laser swords are used (though giant-sized, of course) as weapons. There's more than superficial plot details to Star Wars and Gundam, though. The villains of Gundam, the Duchy of Zeon, is heavily based on the Nazis and Imperial Japan. Tomino, who grew up in Japan in the aftermath of WWII and has become the ultimate form of the old bitter leftist grandpa, used them as pretty big criticism of the Japanese Imperial Regime, complete with corrupt and evil leaders sending normal soldiers who believed in their country to the slaughterhouse and committing atrocities in the name of glorious-sounding "ideals. There's quite a few similarities between them and the Empire, which some say are not only Space Nazis but a critic of American Imperialism. And much like there many fans of the Empire, many in japan have come to identify with and promote Zeon, believing in their ideals and thinking of them as the true heros. Much like Star Wars in western pop culture, Gundam gets quoted all the loving time in anime. Random visual references, quotes, characters will randomly pop up where you least expect it. Char Aznable, the rival character (named after french singer Charles Aznavour) is probably the single most copied anime character. There's like one a year. The Newtypes, people who can communicate wordlessly with others and as such should bring peace but are ironically used for war, are similar to the Jedi, even moreso after the Prequels showed the Jedi losing everything after getting tricked into a war. In both cases, the promise of peace will never be fulfilled, as there will always be more Space Wars. The huge UC timeline, following the large amount of sidestories, sequels, prequels, video games, books, toys, etc. can be compared to the Star Wars expanded universe. And much like the EU now, it actually has multiple timelines, as they started making series into brand new timelines after a certain point. Interestingly enough, it took a while for Gundam to find it's audience, it wasn't an instant smash hit. In fact, it was cancelled before it's end, at 44 episodes out of 50. After the toys sold really well and the re-runs got better ratings, they retooled the series as a trilogy of movies that got released in theaters and only then did it catch fire. If you want to check out Gundam, I highly suggest the Gundam: the Origin comic, available in english. It's a retelling of the original series by the original character designer, reworked in many ways but keeping the same spirit. It has great artwork.  (someone should talk about stuff similar to star wars from like India or something, I don't know anything about those)
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Feb 3, 2016 04:43
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Bongo Bill posted:The question of whether deposing senators based on their allegiance to the head of state (remember, at the time they were discussing this plan, he was just Chancellor Palpatine as far as they knew) is just is orthogonal to the question of whether it is democratic. I understand that there is supposed to be some kind of moral shades of grey in removing Palpatine and possibly allied Senators. However, Palpatine is such a comically evil comic book villain and this is already known to the audience that any considerations of Moral Questions are laughable failures. This is largely due to the incompetence of the presentation.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:47
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Tezzor posted:I understand that there is supposed to be some kind of moral shades of grey in removing Palpatine and possibly allied Senators. However, Palpatine is such a comically evil comic book villain and this is already known to the audience that any considerations of Moral Questions are laughable failures. This is largely due to the incompetence of the presentation. I'm not talking about moral shades of gray. I am talking about the fact that a character said something that reveals his understanding of the situation is different from the way it had previously been portrayed. Facts such as this are not deep or secret. They are actually obvious.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:49
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Bongo Bill posted:I'm not talking about moral shades of gray. I am talking about the fact that a character said something that reveals his understanding of the situation is different from the way it had previously been portrayed. Facts such as this are not deep or secret. They are actually obvious. Uhh....no, Peg. Normal people don't watch that scene and say "oh no, Obi-Wan, you are mistaken. The Jedi were wrong to try to depose Lightning Monster"
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Feb 3, 2016 04:51
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Tezzor posted:Uhh....no, Peg. Normal people don't watch that scene and say "oh no, Obi-Wan, you are mistaken. The Jedi were wrong to try to depose Lightning Monster" You are as bad at identifying the literal content of posts as you are at identifying the literal content of movies.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:53
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Tezzor posted:Uhh....no, Peg. Normal people don't watch that scene and say "oh no, Obi-Wan, you are mistaken. The Jedi were wrong to try to depose Lightning Monster" No one said anything about it being right or wrong. Instead, they're saying that killing the head of state is undemocratic.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:55
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Tezzor posted:... my post that you linked, which shows images from TFA which are not "landscape photographs" or composed like them and nonetheless conform to the rule: This is not an image that was composed according to the rule of thirds. In that sequence they're running towards the camera frantically, shouting at each other as poo poo explodes behind them. The composition is (roughly) symmetrical and centered, accentuating the motion of the characters:  Tezzor posted:Uhh....no, Peg. Normal people don't watch that scene and say "oh no, Obi-Wan, you are mistaken. The Jedi were wrong to try to depose Lightning Monster" Since you're having a lot of trouble understanding Bill's clear and patient posting, try this: If Obi-Wan's allegiance is to democracy, why doesn't he tell the people (all of them) about what just went down? The idea of democracy is that a well informed public can (indeed, should) choose its representatives and leaders. Why does Obi-Wan keep the galaxy-changing truth from the people? Is it that he doesn't trust them to believe him? Or maybe he doesn't trust them to do what he thinks is the right thing? It seems that Obi-Wan has actually lost faith in DEMOCRACY.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:00
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Tezzor posted:Who are ya gonna believe, me or your lyin' eyes? Nyuk nyuk nyuk... This GIF is unacceptably small when we can now use wubbums to broadcast max dimension moving pictures of harmonious slave life all the time. https://zippy.gfycat.com/LateDecimalIbizanhound.webm
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Feb 3, 2016 05:02
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:In Force Awakens, the forest is kinda-used to express Rey's 'true calling', the happy life that she thinks she doesn't deserve. (The island also represents this, because the film mixes its metaphors). The later disintegration of the forest is metaphorical. The Forest is not Rey's true calling, that is the Island. The forest is Rey's inner self. We see her enter a forest twice. Once when she runs away from her destiny, back into solitude and loneliness. And at the end when she and Finn are running from the death of their mentor. Theres no mixed metaphor there with the island. Both times she confronts evil while retreating back into loneliness, but the second time is after her new family has come back for her, and she finally takes them to heart and has something to fight for. So of course she wins that time. Its cool visual language to have her inner self cold & barren after she witnesses Han Solo's death. turtlecrunch posted:This GIF is unacceptably small when we can now use wubbums to broadcast max dimension moving pictures of harmonious slave life all the time. Employing the great RLM tactic I asked my google hangout what they thought of this scene. Most said that 'Anakin looks at the wrong spot to talk to Watto because hes CGI'. I then asked if anyone thought Anakin flinched at Watto raising his hand and they all said No. Which is understandable because he doesn't, and if he winces it doesnt matter because he isn't facing the camera. Jerkface fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 05:05
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Yeah there's not really anything going on in that shot which I would identify as flinching. Movie's still good though.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:13
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Honestly it looks like he passed by a strange alien on the street and is vaguely disgusted.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:15
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IXIX posted:Honestly it looks like he passed by a strange alien on the street and is vaguely disgusted. They should have used this anakin technology in the speyedroid scene to make the tatooinians avoid the droid
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Feb 3, 2016 05:17
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It makes sense then that Maz lives in the center of the forest, she can see who you are inside & is willing to provide you your destiny if you want it. If you look inward and find Maz, you find your true calling.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:27
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Bongo Bill posted:Yeah there's not really anything going on in that shot which I would identify as flinching. Agreed.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:27
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Jerkface posted:The Forest is not Rey's true calling, that is the Island. The forest is Rey's inner self. We see her enter a forest twice. Once when she runs away from her destiny, back into solitude and loneliness. And at the end when she and Finn are running from the death of their mentor. Theres no mixed metaphor there with the island. Both times she confronts evil while retreating back into loneliness, but the second time is after her new family has come back for her, and she finally takes them to heart and has something to fight for. So of course she wins that time. Solitude and loneliness is Jakku, as was correctly identified earlier. Although Rey believes she belongs in the desert, but instinctively runs into the forest. In the forest, her eyes light up red with the firing of the gun. Then Ren appears and literally gains control of her gun arm. I would not call this Rey's 'inner self' because what does that even mean? The implication of what you're saying is that Rey is an inherently bad person who has to overcome her 'inner self' to reach the destiny-island.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:38
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:In the forest, her eyes light up red with the firing of the gun. Then Ren appears and literally gains control of her gun arm. I don't know if this is quite right but I do feel like there's a good chance that they're setting Rey up for some much closer and longer brushes with the dark side than Luke had. It'll mirror Kylo's budding redemption, culminating in their second meeting/fight, which she will lose (but then he'll spare her, probably).
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Feb 3, 2016 05:46
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