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teagone posted:Yes, yes. It's a single line of dialogue that exerts multiple facets of the character not just through the meaning of the words, but also in the way they are delivered. That's why I think it's good! Why do you think it's bad? "sarcastic and confident [...] while also being a badass" isn't really multiple facets of a character. I also don't see how you're getting uncertainty from the line, unless you think the mere presence of a question in a line denotes a character's uncertainty.
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Apr 8, 2016 13:48
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Luke is a redneck muscle car snob, the fact that he calls the Falcon a hunk of junk is not THAT telling. It was important that Leia back it up later. The Falcon is a beat up-looking pickup truck and it doesn't look better with age.
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Apr 8, 2016 14:39
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Sir Kodiak posted:What is the deal with Rey calling the Millennium Falcon garbage? Like, she's done work on it, so it can't be ignorance. But, in the OT, it's a dope ship, and this is carried through to TFA with it fighting off the tie fighters and jumping inside the shields of Starkiller. When she learns what ship it is, she's impressed with the ship having done the Kessel Run in whatever, not Han Solo (though she's also impressed to meet him). Doesn't seem to add up. If somebody left a ship unattended with the door wide open and apparently no kind of code or key needed to activate it, in a city full of criminals, not even blocked off by a low fence, then I too would assume it wasn't very valuable.
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Apr 8, 2016 15:05
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I don't mean "the audience" as a whole - I was talking about the kind of audience member who will complain about a movie for 15 years. Because for some reason certain audience members (let's call them "nerds") have been obsessed with these movies for a decade. Who actually "express their dislike of these movies for over 15 years"? If you think about that objectively, it's completely insane. Normal people don't complain about a movie series long enough between age demographics, let alone a bad movie series. It's psychotic. because only NEERRDDS dislike the prequels? you cant just be an average joe who happens to know poo poo when he sees it?
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Apr 8, 2016 15:08
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Helsing posted:If somebody left a ship unattended with the door wide open and apparently no kind of code or key needed to activate it, in a city full of criminals, not even blocked off by a low fence, then I too would assume it wasn't very valuable. She's done work on it and has detailed opinions about how it should be configured to best perform, I'm not sure why she'd need to be making assumptions.
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Apr 8, 2016 15:11
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The Star Wars Thread: Parking in Space
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Apr 8, 2016 15:15
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I don't mean "the audience" as a whole - I was talking about the kind of audience member who will complain about a movie for 15 years. Because for some reason certain audience members (let's call them "nerds") have been obsessed with these movies for a decade. Who actually "express their dislike of these movies for over 15 years"? If you think about that objectively, it's completely insane. Normal people don't complain about a movie series long enough between age demographics, let alone a bad movie series. It's psychotic. I mean, I am, but you can't necessarily infer that from me saying I dislike it when brought up.
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Apr 8, 2016 15:19
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I don't mean "the audience" as a whole - I was talking about the kind of audience member who will complain about a movie for 15 years. Because for some reason certain audience members (let's call them "nerds") have been obsessed with these movies for a decade. Who actually "express their dislike of these movies for over 15 years"? If you think about that objectively, it's completely insane. Normal people don't complain about a movie series long enough between age demographics, let alone a bad movie series. It's psychotic. I wouldn't say obsessed. The Star Wars Prequels are some of the worst movies ever made, but their flaws are both obvious and fun to riff on. I doubt anyone here actually cares anymore that they turned out the way they did. The negative backlash did cause Lucas to step away from the series and get some competent hands on it too.
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Apr 8, 2016 15:20
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If we're lucky Rogue One will be the Star Wars equivalent of old euro war trash like Kommando Leopard and I will love every minute of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UsnzdC6HJ0
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Apr 8, 2016 15:23
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Prequels are still culturally relevant. We quote them, we analyze them, we make fun of them, some even pay hommage to them. I somewhat doubt that the new trilogy will achieve that level of relevance, but we'll see.
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Apr 8, 2016 15:26
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Alucard Nacirema posted:Isn't Rey's theme and Jedi steps basically the same song? Not exactly, John Williams has the two blend together.
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Apr 8, 2016 15:33
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Sir Kodiak posted:What is the deal with Rey calling the Millennium Falcon garbage? Like, she's done work on it, so it can't be ignorance. But, in the OT, it's a dope ship It's garbage in the OT and its capabilities are questioned by everyone who isn't Han Solo.
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Apr 8, 2016 15:38
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Race Realists posted:because only NEERRDDS dislike the prequels? you cant just be an average joe who happens to know poo poo when he sees it? An "average joe" isn't going to hate a movie and discuss how much they hate it for over a decade. You need someone who combines slight critical interest with an almost total lack of critical awareness, and who views every entry in a movie franchise as some monumental Event. Yaws posted:The Star Wars Prequels are some of the worst movies ever made I don't think you've seen many movies. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Apr 8, 2016 |
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Apr 8, 2016 15:39
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Yaws posted:I wouldn't say obsessed. The Star Wars Prequels are some of the worst movies ever made, but their flaws are both obvious and fun to riff on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqZMjsQGLbw
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Apr 8, 2016 15:48
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turtlecrunch posted:It's garbage in the OT and its capabilities are questioned by everyone who isn't Han Solo. Ya, even Lando referred to it as the fastest hunk of junk in the Galaxy and he used to own it. Which isn't questioning it'd capabilities as much as confirming that it's visibly a heap of garbage that can fly like crazy when she's put to the test. AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Apr 8, 2016 |
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Apr 8, 2016 15:48
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:I don't think you've seen many movies. When you consider all the elements of a film. Acting, pacing, dialogue, characters etc. I do think the Star Wars prequels are up there with the worst big budget mainstream movies. Like, I guess something like Manos is worse but that's not much of an accomplishment. If The Phantom Menace was released without the OT before it (and geeks slavish devotion to the series) it would have been a critical and financial disaster. There simply wouldn't have been an AotC or RotS.
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Apr 8, 2016 15:50
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Yaws posted:When you consider all the elements of a film. Acting, pacing, dialogue, characters etc. I do think the Star Wars prequels are up there with the worst big budget mainstream movies. How does the prequels being big budget and mainstream change the standards applied? e: with that amount of money, you're almost inevitably going to get something right, which is why the worst big-budget blockbuster is usually watchable. And the prequels you have the phenomenon where people criticize them for things they love in the OT - cheesy dialogue, "fake" special effects, goofiness, etc. What's loved in the OT is hated in the PT. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Apr 8, 2016 |
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Apr 8, 2016 15:59
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Yaws posted:When you consider all the elements of a film. Acting, pacing, dialogue, characters etc. I do think the Star Wars prequels are up there with the worst big budget mainstream movies. You haven't seen a lot of big budget mainstream movies. Like let's just take a contemporary example to the PT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYHaarxQTFk
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Apr 8, 2016 16:04
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Yaws posted:
Nah there's plenty going on in that movie that would have made it a critically panned but still successful cult classic. It's just in the existing set of star wars films a lot of folks were like what's this poo poo Even poo poo movies now make everything back once they go international... Not sure about 1999 but it could have had sequels. Lots of worse movies get them hhhat fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Apr 8, 2016 |
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Apr 8, 2016 16:04
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computer parts posted:You haven't seen a lot of big budget mainstream movies. AOTC is the only prequel nominated for Worst Picture in Golden Raspberry Awards (Swept Away won). There's plenty of nominations for AOTC and ROTJ, though.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:06
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:How does the prequels being big budget and mainstream change the standards applied? I don't think it's fair to compare something that has a massive budget like the Star Wars prequels to something like, I dunno, Miami Connection.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:06
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G-III posted:Yeah I gotta agree with the genlteperson above. I don't think you know what's actually out there in the world with respect to bad movies. May I introduce you to the work of Godfrey Ho? Godfrey Ho owns.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:06
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Another contemporary big budget film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uZRYO8BcL4
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Apr 8, 2016 16:12
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computer parts posted:Another contemporary big budget film: This scene is funny. It has John Cleese in it.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:16
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Yaws posted:This scene is funny. It has John Cleese in it. Too bad the scene is in one of the lesser Bond-movies (and that's saying something).
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Apr 8, 2016 16:17
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Yaws posted:When you consider all the elements of a film. Acting, pacing, dialogue, characters etc. Those aren't all the elements of a film: those are the core elements of a stage play.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:18
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Wild Wild West and Wing Commander and somehow a $65 million version of My Favorite Martian released the same year as Phantom Menace, but sure let's pretend that this Star Wars prequel was one of the worst movies ever made, let alone anywhere near the (lack of) quality in those pictures. Hell, somehow romantic comedy Forces of Nature cost $75 million to make and is goddamn terrible. Seriously, how do you spend more than $20 million on a remake of a kitschy 60s TV show?
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Apr 8, 2016 16:19
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A 1998 film A 2002 film A 2006 film
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Apr 8, 2016 16:19
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's because the TFA characters are constantly yelping excitedly and hugging eachother. The things they actually say and do are irrelevant in the face of this combo of enthusiasm and presexual intimacy. Is this a part of your whole "not believing in love/emotions" thing again. You're essentially saying "the audience appreciates physical interaction between friends over standing by windows or sitting at couches" in a (forgive the cliche) very autistic and/or sterile way.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:22
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The reason the PT gets more blowback than any of those movies is a combination of expectations for the films, prior consensus, and detractors realizing they aren't as insignificant in number as they thought they were. Nobody believes 98 Godzilla is a good movie nor is it a large part of nerd culture. Just about every star wars nerd has at one point made fun of Anakin's hatred of sand or love of spinning, even before any publicized youtube reviews.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:27
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Neurolimal posted:The reason the PT gets more blowback than any of those movies is a combination of expectations for the films, prior consensus, and detractors realizing they aren't as insignificant in number as they thought they were. So yes, not the content of the movies. Which is to say, the blowback is not based on critical evaluation. Also see how the influence of RLM: people discovered new criticisms! Again, it shows that the blowback is not based on critical evaluation. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Apr 8, 2016 |
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Apr 8, 2016 16:44
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Yeah like I know technically TFA is supposed to be a "bad movie" because it's similar to A New Hope one of the raddest movies ever made and that's a terrible thing for some reason but even if it adhered to ANH even more closely I'd still love it just from the characters and their chemistry.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:45
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The Cameo posted:Wild Wild West and Wing Commander and somehow a $65 million version of My Favorite Martian released the same year as Phantom Menace, but sure let's pretend that this Star Wars prequel was one of the worst movies ever made, let alone anywhere near the (lack of) quality in those pictures. Hell, somehow romantic comedy Forces of Nature cost $75 million to make and is goddamn terrible. In regards to Wing Commander, that one at least is held aloft by being fun to watch and riff on. In it's own way, it's an immensely watchable movie. By contrast, the Star Wars prequels have almost nothing to offer. Their flaws are well documented (and irrefutable) but in the end they're just dull as dishwater. Made by a man long past his prime. Like an athlete who should have retired years ago, you see flashes of the ways things were but it's clear the talent is long gone.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:45
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The Cameo posted:Wild Wild West and Wing Commander and somehow a $65 million version of My Favorite Martian released the same year as Phantom Menace, but sure let's pretend that this Star Wars prequel was one of the worst movies ever made, let alone anywhere near the (lack of) quality in those pictures. Hell, somehow romantic comedy Forces of Nature cost $75 million to make and is goddamn terrible. I actually saw wing commander because it had the star wars trailer on it. In those days we didn't have instant YouTube's like you kids today with your iPads or whatever. Wing commander was awesome. The crowd turned that poo poo into a real live mst3k show. We had a lot of fun. Phantom menace on the other hand we were kind of stunned into silence. Expectations did not meet delivery. Worst film ever of course not. Disappointing? You betcha. Bad film in the thread about star wars films though? Yeah in my opinion it needed way more work. Could have been good, could have been great. Worst star wars film? Nope I saw the ewok movie too. Diabetus on vhs. Oh God the pain. Tfa wasn't perfect but dammit i had so much fun watching it. I'm still generally happy with how things are going and the trailer is still pretty dope. Is there a handy calendar like Marvel put out where we can see what movies are when? Guessing solo solo movie is December 2018?
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Apr 8, 2016 16:46
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So yes, not the content of the movies. Which is to say, the blowback is not based on critical evaluation. Everything is judged within its context. Len Kabazinski movies are awful, but appreciated for their sheer determination and amateur enthusiasm, as an example. You're essentially demanding that every film be judged and focused in accordance to its value within a lifeless and timeless vacuum. It's also absurd to attack critical opinions for adopting critiques they did not themselves notice, then turn around and claim that people who hate the PT are idiots for not appreciating elements the films did not successfully convey to them. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Apr 8, 2016 |
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Apr 8, 2016 16:49
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Yeah, I wouldn't say they are the worst films ever. Not counting poo poo b-movies, things like Jack and Jill (anything recent by Sandler really), Paul Blart, etc. are trash. But they are some of the most disappointing movies. All the pieces are there but it just doesn't work for me or a lot of other people. At least the soundtracks are nice... I listened to them a bunch when building the Lego Slave 1 and I liked hearing the songs again. They belong to better movies. Like Across the Stars is so goddamn GOOD - but the actual romance is poo poo and forced. BravestOfTheLamps posted:So yes, not the content of the movies. Which is to say, the blowback is not based on critical evaluation. The RLM stuff was giving people more things to point at instead of, "IT STINKS!". It sounds hyperbolic as gently caress but those reviews were pretty important.... Vintersorg fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Apr 8, 2016 |
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Apr 8, 2016 16:53
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Neo Rasa posted:Yeah like I know technically TFA is supposed to be a "bad movie" because it's similar to A New Hope one of the raddest movies ever made and that's a terrible thing for some reason but even if it adhered to ANH even more closely I'd still love it just from the characters and their chemistry. TFA would be better if it conformed more closely to ANH (i.e., if it actually justified the Laser Moon in the third act).
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Apr 8, 2016 16:53
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computer parts posted:TFA would be better if it conformed more closely to ANH (i.e., if it actually justified the Laser Moon in the third act). It does; thematically, it's the grand clash between the prior generation (channeled through the Young Republicans) and the new generation (the Resistance). It sees a weightless and quick end because the primary statement of the film is a critique of clinging to the past and ignoring new developments. I do agree that it could have been better though; they shouldn't have cut the Resistance superweapon. It would have presented a clearer visual statement, of the fortified, derivative, ancient Death Star being penetrated and demolished by the unique and fresh Life Missile.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:58
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Yaws posted:In regards to Wing Commander, that one at least is held aloft by being fun to watch and riff on. In it's own way, it's an immensely watchable movie. By contrast, the Star Wars prequels have almost nothing to offer. Their flaws are well documented (and irrefutable) but in the end they're just dull as dishwater. Made by a man long past his prime. Like an athlete who should have retired years ago, you see flashes of the ways things were but it's clear the talent is long gone. Jesus Christ. Look, it's okay to not like a movie for whatever reason, we all have different tastes and look for different stuff in movies. But posts like this show a clear lack of understanding of moviemaking and what makes movies good (or bad) that I have to believe it's some kind of joke. The prequels have a poo poo-ton of stuff to offer and their flaws are neither irrefutable or well documented. We keep arguing about them to this day because they are quite refutable and not so well documented. If you really think this you are a moron. I don't think you're a moron, so please stop using stupid hyperbole when saying "I did't like the movie because it didn't give me what I wanted" would get the point across way better. This is why Prequel Haters aren't taken seriously: they say stupid poo poo.
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Apr 8, 2016 16:59
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I have to point out that the soundtracks for the prequels are loving amazing I also really like Doug chaings art direction. The design work was fantastic.
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Apr 8, 2016 17:00
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