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Yeah, I kinda figured most of those 'missing' skills were just going to be baseline now. Not having them were mostly newbie-traps anyway, and all it did was make pubbies worse. So Fugitive is looking to be... Pistols/possibly SMGs? Probably like Leadership as the bottom tier, akimbo as the capstone. Probably one side focused on accuracy/power (Equilibrium Basic, Gunslinger Ace, Trigger Happy) and the other for SMGs/fast pistols (Reload speed/rate of fire). If they do incorporate SMGs into this, they could be crazy strong. Tough Guy/Durability tree. Something for stability (either Thick Skin Basic or Tough Guy Basic) at the bottom, Swan Song at the top. One side's probably all about getting up (Nine Lives at the lower, a Pistol Messiah-like at the higher), and the other side would be Nerves of Steel and something new. A bit lackluster, but Swan Song is worth it for some people. Melee tree. Not sure what order that stuff would fall in - I could see one side of the tree being damage-focused (Pumping Iron) and the other being knockdown-focused (Martial Arts/Counter-Strike). Berserker as the capstone, I guess?
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Apr 8, 2016 19:18
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Oh, I can't believe I forgot this one: Feedback is now a native ability it looks like, as well as silent drilling seems completely removed so maybe ECM Overdrive will be able to open all electronic security measures rather than just "these specific ones", or just replace keycards all together. Maybe even open Titan safes! Then again, probably not. Most likely not. So, uh, yeah. I guess they do.
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Apr 8, 2016 19:22
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ECMs still suck
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Zigmidge posted:Hopefully it's three trees of akimbo skills At least one pistol branch.
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Apr 8, 2016 19:26
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Oh, I can't believe I forgot this one: Reading over it makes it look like ECM overdrive is a base ability of ECMs now, which is fine.
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Apr 8, 2016 19:27
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BillmasterCozb posted:Chameleon is still the worst, at least in its basic form I've always liked Chamelon Basic as a one point leftover dump, there's a hidden interaction where Dominator's increased shout distance allows you to mark things from further away so I can stand outside and mark things from safety in the odd case of a stealth heist going down. I can bring bigger guns in case it goes loud and that 25% increased concealment even pays off for that. Probably never going to buy it with the new tree though.
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Apr 8, 2016 19:28
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Grapplejack posted:Reading over it makes it look like ECM overdrive is a base ability of ECMs now, which is fine. Feedback, not Overdrive. Overdrive opens doors, Feedback stuns cops.
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Apr 8, 2016 19:30
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Grapplejack posted:Reading over it makes it look like ECM overdrive is a base ability of ECMs now, which is fine. Let me let you in on a little secret: Feedback is really, really bad. It is so bad that not even I can stomach it as a gimmick for more than a round at a time.
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Apr 8, 2016 19:36
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But it does give a slightly more useful ability to basic jammers than climbing up high skill trees. It doesn't fix the general problem of the ghost deployable being lame as hell, but its a touch less boring by potentially making basic worth something.
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Apr 8, 2016 19:43
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True story, feedback is hilariously bad and the only use for it is making dubstep jokes
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Apr 8, 2016 19:44
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Skunkrocker posted:silent drilling seems completely removed I just noticed Cleaner basic is actually an OK skill. It's what lets you buy Spotter and Expert Driver. maswastaken fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Apr 8, 2016 |
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Apr 8, 2016 19:49
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Console update: "we're still working on it. We look forward to updating you again in two weeks". Also I am the scrub that uses ecm feedback AND Stockholm syndrome in my build. Both basic but still. SS mainly get to Kilmer but I do get a little bit of use out of it. Im just so used to my build by now. Occasionally I switch it up but not very often.
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Apr 8, 2016 19:58
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On ECM, I usually bring some to day 1 of Hoxton Breakout because there are ATMs along the way and deployables won't be used until the garage where I'll have 3 other teammates to provide. Are there other maps like this where it's worth switching out to catch a few doors/atms for dollerz where I'd rather have another gun than a saw?
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Apr 8, 2016 20:01
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Tempest_56 posted:Melee tree. Not sure what order that stuff would fall in - I could see one side of the tree being damage-focused (Pumping Iron) and the other being knockdown-focused (Martial Arts/Counter-Strike). Berserker as the capstone, I guess? If they want the melee tree to not be hot garbage, the top skill should allow charging a melee weapon and sprinting. But it's the melee tree, so it'll probably be hot garbage.
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Apr 8, 2016 20:26
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If there are two people each taking six doc and ammo bags of which we'll maybe use one of each I'll run ECMs as a gimmick for chuckles. Open doors, rolling feedback, SWAT turrets hey whatever.
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Apr 8, 2016 20:27
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I pretty much never open atms with them but off the top of my head these jobs have atms Diamond shop Election Day bank Four stores Big bank has the lockpick one. Can't remember if regular atm Street escape Mall Big oil 1 Regular and firestarter banks Hoxton 1
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Apr 8, 2016 20:28
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Zigmidge posted:On ECM, I usually bring some to day 1 of Hoxton Breakout because there are ATMs along the way and deployables won't be used until the garage where I'll have 3 other teammates to provide. Doing this on deathwish is a cool and good strategy used by all the goon pros.
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Apr 8, 2016 20:36
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swims posted:I pretty much never open atms with them but off the top of my head these jobs have atms Good list- the counting machine on Big Bank can be picked only. also, crossroads transport has, I think 5, and FWB 6 or so iirc.
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Apr 8, 2016 20:40
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Skunkrocker posted:Feedback, not Overdrive. Overdrive opens doors, Feedback stuns cops. Oh, whoops!
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Apr 8, 2016 20:49
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UnknownMercenary posted:Doing this on deathwish is a cool and good strategy used by all the goon pros. Please don't encourage this type of foolishness... please? e: the chance of the path to the ATMs being blocked, combined with what is essentially a very small payout & the fact that you're robbing yourself of a proper deployable makes this a very poor strategy. You'd be better off bringing a saw as you'd be able to open not only the ATMs if they spawn but also the doors in the carpark. YET ANOTHER FAG fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Apr 8, 2016 |
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Apr 8, 2016 20:50
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Let me let you in on a little secret: Feedback is really, really bad. It is so bad that not even I can stomach it as a gimmick for more than a round at a time. In fact, it is so bad that if anyone else has cop domming skills, they will not be able to force a cop to surrender because they've got their hands on their heads
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Apr 8, 2016 20:52
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This used to be silly on 360 and I'm sure early PC that even civs would appear to be feedbacked. I primarily use ecm for doors. I'll feedback the getaway on firestarter 1. I find feedback useful for some ugly deathwish jams when the cops are overloading. I usually feedback at the end of diamond museum. E: also feedback rats 3 bag throwing and depending on how hosed up oil 2 ending gets. I never ecm rush outside of election 1 and frames 1. swims fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Apr 8, 2016 |
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Apr 8, 2016 21:09
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Thanks for the list swims.UnknownMercenary posted:Doing this on deathwish is a cool and good strategy used by all the goon pros. YET ANOTHER FAG posted:Please don't encourage this type of foolishness... please? Thanks, nerds! 
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Apr 8, 2016 21:14
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I'd rather have Feedback than have unused ammo bags tbh. swims posted:I pretty much never open atms with them but off the top of my head these jobs have atms Goat day 1 has a few.
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Apr 8, 2016 21:22
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If you've got unused ammo bags you didn't bring enough explosives
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Apr 8, 2016 21:39
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The only way to do full cooks now is to have so many explosive weapons that you run out of all ammo bags by meth batch #4.
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Apr 8, 2016 21:53
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That console update is pretty funny actually. The guy gets really defensive towards the end about the community not believing they are making progress. It's update #10.
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Apr 8, 2016 22:21
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Well this is what happens when a company has to work with an inferior system 
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Apr 8, 2016 23:42
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BillmasterCozb posted:In fact, it is so bad that if anyone else has cop domming skills, they will not be able to force a cop to surrender because they've got their hands on their heads Which means everyone since after the skill remake everyone will be able to dominate cops into surrendering  But with the abundance of Swat Vans, taking ECMs might be worth it... if not for the fact that you need the top skill to take two, which I don't think any other deployable needs. Also, the basic Feedback might be the aced, rechargable version, which makes it slightly less poo poo? Eh I dunno I just want them to be a cool gimmick. Also yeah Dire need seems exploitable as gently caress.
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Apr 9, 2016 01:05
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ECMing SWAT vans is hilarious, and I'll never get tired of it. I remember when the Vans came out, we ran 8 ECM groups as a gimmick for shorter heists and barely needed to fire.
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Apr 9, 2016 02:09
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Cross posted from the let's stream thread Playing some PAYDAY 2 with the gang tonight, come say hi. http://twitch.tv/dogglesforhire
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Apr 9, 2016 02:32
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swims posted:Also I am the scrub that uses ecm feedback AND Stockholm syndrome in my build. Both basic but still. SS mainly get to Kilmer but I do get a little bit of use out of it. Im just so used to my build by now. You could take literally anything else in the tree for those four points and get more use out of it, though? 
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Apr 9, 2016 03:01
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If the heist gives, say, from 1 to 2 millions of experience, what are the conditions to get 2 millions? All bags of loot?
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Apr 9, 2016 03:09
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kalstrams posted:If the heist gives, say, from 1 to 2 millions of experience, what are the conditions to get 2 millions? All bags of loot? It depends on the heist. Different heists have different XP triggers. There are generally triggers for securing loot but not always and how they are triggered differs from heist to heist. For example, The Diamond gives you XP for every four bags that aren't The Diamond you secure. Firestarter day 3 and the standalone Harvest & Trustee bank heists have no bag-based triggers. Most heists give out XP per bag, though. Generally you're better off securing more loot. Keep in mind that bags on your back will not count towards XP rewards and plan accordingly. Dr Cheeto fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Apr 9, 2016 |
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Apr 9, 2016 03:29
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I think the only thing that jumps out as me as something I don't like about this rework is that Camouflage is still a skill that exists, and even worse now you would have to take it if you wanted to do a silent killer build. I don't quite understand the timing window for Unseen Strike. Is the 4/12 seconds the length of time that the crit bonus would remain active even after a player took damage?
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Apr 9, 2016 04:19
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Geight posted:I don't quite understand the timing window for Unseen Strike. Is the 4/12 seconds the length of time that the crit bonus would remain active even after a player took damage? Yes. Don't take damage for 2 seconds, then for X seconds afterward, regardless of what happens, you get a crit bonus. Presumably. The whole Silent Killer tree looks crazy-good to me. Grabbing all the dodge skills in one tree is really excellent, too. Dodge builds 4 lyfe.
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Apr 9, 2016 05:05
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I will begrudgingly state that at this moment, fart gun builds may be good. Maybe.
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Apr 9, 2016 05:10
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They are already good. Fartgun JP36 is the only way to play.
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Apr 9, 2016 05:17
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Dr Cheeto posted:It depends on the heist. Different heists have different XP triggers. There are generally triggers for securing loot but not always and how they are triggered differs from heist to heist. For example, The Diamond gives you XP for every four bags that aren't The Diamond you secure. Firestarter day 3 and the standalone Harvest & Trustee bank heists have no bag-based triggers. Most heists give out XP per bag, though.
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Apr 9, 2016 05:22
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UnknownMercenary posted:They are already good. Fartgun JP36 is the only way to play. only with Hitman, though
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Apr 9, 2016 05:25
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Hardcore Henry owns. Jimmy owns. That is all.
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Apr 9, 2016 07:06
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