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Captain America in his own movies is probably my favourite MCU character. Captain America in the Avengers movies is easily my least favourite MCU character.
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Apr 10, 2016 16:34
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Mordiceius posted:It also sounds way more expensive that way. With that way, you have your core group and you're just adding one or two per movie. Theoretically, that means you have that core group in every film. Which would be prohibitively expensive and would also not work when it comes to timeframes since it would be much harder to have multiple films in production simultaneously. It makes more sense if you believe you need prior knowledge before you watch The Avengers. Fortunately, Marvel made it so The Avengers can be watched without seeing any of the previous films. Steve2911 posted:What does the continuing production or success of the movies have to do with how good they are? Them being good is already a given (i.e., they/I liked Man of Steel and BvS so other films in that style will probably be good). The confidence WB has in the property shows that the backlash against said films is primarily an internet only phenomenon.
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Apr 10, 2016 16:35
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LesterGroans posted:Captain America in his own movies is probably my favourite MCU character. That's because Joss Whedon does not understand Captain America, and as a Joss Whedon Feminist, Cap is exactly the kind of character he's most likely to gently caress up hardcore. Him and Black Widow.
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Apr 10, 2016 16:48
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All this talk about what movies are good, and nobody posted charts yet. Anyway, here is Nicolas Cage as a superhero. The Penance Hold is powerful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woMOoJPOPW4
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Apr 10, 2016 16:52
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Xenomrph posted:I guess I just disagree then? The movie shows a literal interdimensional invasion ripping Manhattan a new rear end in a top hat, while a half dozen heroes do whatever they can to stop the destruction. The action is entertaining as heck, does a good job of showcasing the different characters' strengths and weaknesses (and their teamwork), and even manages to make the "non-powered" characters like Hawkeye or Black Widow feel like they're contributing to the action in meaningful, visually interesting ways. Somehow New York, one of the most densely populated places in the country, is completely devoid of people in minutes so that takes all the tension and stakes out of it. The action is terrible and makes no sense. The camera is not framed on anything interesting (cars again), the shots do not flow into each other with anything resembling narrative structure.
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Apr 10, 2016 16:54
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Tezcatlipoca posted:Somehow New York, one of the most densely populated places in the country, is completely devoid of people in minutes so that takes all the tension and stakes out of it. The action is terrible and makes no sense. The camera is not framed on anything interesting (cars again), the shots do not flow into each other with anything resembling narrative structure. I had no problem following the action from one shot to the next. Like I'm really trying to have a constructive conversation but I'm really not sure what else I can say other than "I disagree, I have the polar opposite opinion to everything you're saying". I don't have a functional bluray drive so it's not like I can snap screenshots or clips; I mean I guess I could grab some youtube links or something. I just had no problem following the action, understanding what was going on, and being interested by it. Then again I also had no problem following the action in the Transformers movies and that gets routinely criticized for being incomprehensible CGI nonsense (and I can understand that). I guess different people have different thresholds for that kind of thing?
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Apr 10, 2016 17:00
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Xenomrph posted:It's a lighthearted PG-13 comic book movie, what were you expecting? Bodies in the street, moaning as they're crushed by rubble? Yeah, Man of Steel and many other PG-13 movies managed to do it just fine. The composition is bad. You can follow the action in each individual scene it is just bland and has that weird flat lighting that makes it even more uninteresting. The scenes don't flow together well to tell a story. We're supposed to believe the Avengers are being overwhelmed but there is nothing shown to convey that. I guess you missed all the movie-fight posts that showed all of this.
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Apr 10, 2016 17:11
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Xenomrph posted:It's a lighthearted PG-13 comic book movie, what were you expecting? Bodies in the street, moaning as they're crushed by rubble?
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Apr 10, 2016 17:12
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The funniest scene in Avengers is still when Loki stabs Thor with what looks like a poisoned needle, and I guess you're meant to wonder if Thor's going to go down or if Loki's going to escape or something. Instead, he just heads back to Stark's building and Thor is fine.
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Apr 10, 2016 17:15
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Tezcatlipoca posted:Yeah, Man of Steel and many other PG-13 movies managed to do it just fine. The scenes flowed together to form a story just fine, and I had no problem believing the Avengers were being overwhelmed (and the movie repeatedly shows gobs of generic invaders all over the place, wrecking poo poo). I don't know what movie-fights is, but I have seen 'The Avengers' several times. Like I said I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. TetsuoTW posted:I expect fights in theatrically released films to be better than Power Rangers episodes with better CGI.
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Apr 10, 2016 17:17
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Xenomrph posted:It's a lighthearted PG-13 comic book movie, what were you expecting? Technical competence in filmmaking.
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Apr 10, 2016 17:31
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computer parts posted:The funniest scene in Avengers is still when Loki stabs Thor with what looks like a poisoned needle, and I guess you're meant to wonder if Thor's going to go down or if Loki's going to escape or something. On one hand, though, I get the feeling some effort was put into Avengers 1 to explain that the team is fighting far from their peak condition during the invasion. Tony's in a hastily finished new set of armor, Thor is stabbed, Widow and Hawkeye are coming off of emotionally stressful experiences, Hulk is absent for the first part of the invasion and everyone is fresh off an exhausting helicarrier fight. So it maybe helps so that in future films when you want to show bigger/badder enemies they are able to stand against better is due in part to not being at such an immediate disadvantage early on in the battle. The scene with the knife/needle thing though always makes me think the cutaway shot to Thor tossing it away and you seeing it landing on the floor was thrown in in case they wanted to eventually put in the Clone Thor story. "Where did Tony get Thor DNA? Oh, he found that dagger from Avengers 1, remember that" I don't think they'd ever do that, but I just sort of took it as a throwaway shot that they could reference just in case.
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Apr 10, 2016 17:34
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computer parts posted:It makes more sense if you believe you need prior knowledge before you watch The Avengers. Before the movie opened I linked some quotes from WB execs on their expectations. They thought it would upend AoU. This weekend its second in the BO: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/04/10/box-office-batman-v-superman-bested-by-the-boss-with-23-4m-third-weekend/#4034d04b1f48 Deadpool is likely to outearn it. Deadpool. EDIT: Couple that with a mixed critical reception, they have to be wondering why they gave the keys to two of the most popular characters in fiction to Synder. We're likely to hear nothing about it in public though for a while.
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Apr 10, 2016 17:37
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Shageletic posted:EDIT: Couple that with a mixed critical reception, they have to be wondering why they gave the keys to two of the most popular characters in fiction to Synder. There are about 668 million reasons why they did this thing actually.
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Apr 10, 2016 17:44
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Shageletic posted:EDIT: Couple that with a mixed critical reception, they have to be wondering why they gave the keys to two of the most popular characters in fiction to Synder. We're likely to hear nothing about it in public though for a while. Because his movies make money and are good.
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Apr 10, 2016 17:44
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Shageletic posted:Before the movie opened I linked some quotes from WB execs on their expectations. Anonymous quotes from comicbookfan.com?
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Apr 10, 2016 17:46
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When WB execs had their big positive reaction, that was likely before the recuts bringing the rating and runtime down.Shageletic posted:Deadpool is likely to outearn it. Deadpool. This is a weird meme. Like Superman has to make more money than this other character because he has higher power levels...? SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 17:54
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Shageletic posted:Deadpool is likely to outearn it. Deadpool.
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Apr 10, 2016 18:15
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LesterGroans posted:Captain America in his own movies is probably my favourite MCU character. Burkion posted:That's because Joss Whedon does not understand Captain America, and as a Joss Whedon Feminist, Cap is exactly the kind of character he's most likely to gently caress up hardcore. Him and Black Widow. I've seen a couple people mention this now, as well as rumors of Chris Evans and Whedon disagreeing about how to use the character in the Avengers films. Would either of you mind going into more detail or giving examples that illustrate what you mean? I thought the writing for the Avengers was fine and they should have let Whedon stick to that and hire a better director to shoot the movies, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts, especially in regards to Whedon and Cap.
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Apr 10, 2016 18:24
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Tezcatlipoca posted:Because his movies... are good. Citation needed
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Apr 10, 2016 18:24
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Codependent Poster posted:Citation needed Their opinion.
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Apr 10, 2016 18:33
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Curl_like_smoke posted:I've seen a couple people mention this now, as well as rumors of Chris Evans and Whedon disagreeing about how to use the character in the Avengers films. Would either of you mind going into more detail or giving examples that illustrate what you mean? I thought the writing for the Avengers was fine and they should have let Whedon stick to that and hire a better director to shoot the movies, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts, especially in regards to Whedon and Cap. Captain America in his solo movies is a quintessentially good guy. His standing up to the bullies, "I could do this all day", jumping on the grenade. It's all classic 'good guy' stuff. The way Chris Evans plays it is a sort of sheepishness but also pretty matter-of-fact. You believe that this guy believes what he's talking about. This gets more muddied and more interesting in Winter Soldier, but it's still the same character. The Cap in Avengers is some weird, stoic fuddy-duddy. The "Language" joke in AoU is the worst. It just doesn't work. I don't know why, maybe it's because Whedon wrote and directed it so there was less wiggle-room for Evans to try to mold and interpret the lines. Look at the difference between the way Chris Evans interacts with Sebastian Stan, Anthony Mackie and Scarlet Johannson in his own movies and how he interacts with others in the Avengers movies. There's an easy chemistry that's missing, and maybe some of it has to do with Evans bristling with the characterization in the Avengers movies. I don't know. In the Avengers movies he comes off as corny as a joke instead of corny as an ideal.
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Apr 10, 2016 18:37
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Shageletic posted:Before the movie opened I linked some quotes from WB execs on their expectations. They thought it would upend AoU. This weekend its second in the BO: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2016/04/10/box-office-batman-v-superman-bested-by-the-boss-with-23-4m-third-weekend/#4034d04b1f48 Really what's happening is that JL 1 production is so imminent (it starts tomorrow) that WB has no choice but to stick with Snyder. They have no choice, as any disruptions, like firing Snyder and finding a replacement, would totally disrupt their plans for the DCCU. Mars4523 fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Apr 10, 2016 |
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Apr 10, 2016 18:39
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:This is a weird meme. Like Superman has to make more money than this other character because he has higher power levels...? Because Superman is a long running American icon with a history of financial success and significant cultural cache. It's like if a Peewee Herman haphazardly put together a film that outgrossed a Will Ferrell Christmas blockbuster.
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Apr 10, 2016 18:48
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He stands for truth, justice, a history of financial success, and significant cultural cachet
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Apr 10, 2016 18:51
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hi liter posted:Because Superman is a long running American icon with a history of financial success and significant cultural cache. It's like if a Peewee Herman haphazardly put together a film that outgrossed a Will Ferrell Christmas blockbuster. Herman's shittier gags are better than Ferrel's median, though
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Apr 10, 2016 18:51
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hi liter posted:Because Superman is a long running American icon with a history of financial success and significant cultural cache. It's like if a Peewee Herman haphazardly put together a film that outgrossed a Will Ferrell Christmas blockbuster. Good news then, Batman vs Superman is beating Deadpool. Worldwide Deadpool total is $755,750,859 while Batman vs Superman is $783,485,542. Of course both of them are dogshit compared to Transformers 4, which earned $1,104,054,072 and is thus obviously the most superior movie.
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Apr 10, 2016 18:57
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Batman and Superman are cultural icons, so anything less than $2 billion is a failure.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:02
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I've been reading some of the old Superman comics by Siegel and Shuster and oh boy is Superman ever not shy about killing people.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:16
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Shageletic posted:Before the movie opened I linked some quotes from WB execs on their expectations. They thought it would upend AoU... If the WB execs saw something in BvS that gave them such high expectations, it seems unlikely that they'd just forget it due to negative reviews of a movie whose director is notorious for making divisive movies.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:17
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computer parts posted:Batman and Superman are cultural icons, so anything less than $2 billion is a failure. Superman isn't even one of DC's best selling comics anymore. Hell, DC as whole has been on a decline for a while.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:32
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hi liter posted:Because Superman is a long running American icon with a history of financial success and significant cultural cache. It's like if a Peewee Herman haphazardly put together a film that outgrossed a Will Ferrell Christmas blockbuster. If people actually cared about how 'iconic' a character is, the next Frankenstein movie would shatter box-office records. People pay to see concepts, and Dawn Of Justice is one of those AVP/King Kong Versus Godzilla type of kaiju crossover movies. It's not a genre of film known for making Avatar money. You might note that Captain America: Civil War is not called Captain America Versus Iron Man: Civil War. That's because it is about the Steve Rogers character trying to stop a war. The film centers around that, and all the superhero cameos are fairly gratuitous. It's not a 'Versus' movie.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:33
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Mars4523 posted:Why are we calling it a mixed critical reception? There was no mixed critical reception to Batman v Superman, it was negative. And considering the B Cinemascore and the poor legs that the movie has seen in the weeks since, the audience reception was just as poor. I didn't want to be completely anti a movie I still have not seen, and a lot of people like, as evinced by the people replying to my post. But its kinda hard to argue against the idea that B v. S was supposed to be an Avengers killer, and it seems to be failing in that task. The reason I am focusing on it that expectations are key for the people that make these types of movies. Amazing Spider-man 2 "only" earned a few hundred million dollars, and there was a seismic change in Fox's approach to that movie. Again, Superman and Batman are some of the most valuable IP out there. Clearing a billion dollars was supposed to be the easy part. Expect some major changes after Justice League is wrapped up (or even during the production, i.e. more "hands-on" engagement by WB execs).
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Apr 10, 2016 19:42
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Mars4523 posted:Why are we calling it a mixed critical reception? There was no mixed critical reception to Batman v Superman, it was negative. The overall reactions were negative, but the response to the Batman and Wonder Woman elements were positive, with Superman continuing to be the divisive figure. The movie itself may be underperforming, but the franchise growth the movie is supposed to achieve went fine. If the movie had managed to sour people on Batman, then that might have gotten Zack Snyder ejected. Instead, the follow-up was already set to focus on the two breakout characters.
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Apr 10, 2016 19:46
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Sir Kodiak posted:The overall reactions were negative, but the response to the Batman and Wonder Woman elements were positive, with Superman continuing to be the divisive figure. The movie itself may be underperforming, but the franchise growth the movie is supposed to achieve went fine. If the movie had managed to sour people on Batman, then that might have gotten Zack Snyder ejected. Instead, the follow-up was already set to focus on the two breakout characters. Yeah, if anything people are more anticipated for Wonder Woman's movie than they were before BvS.
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Apr 10, 2016 20:01
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dublish posted:If the WB execs saw something in BvS that gave them such high expectations, it seems unlikely that they'd just forget it due to negative reviews of a movie whose director is notorious for making divisive movies. I feel like people also forget that Snyder attracts really ridiculous talent to movies that ostensibly these people would never attach themselves to. He's very good at convincing actors to go on his crazy adventure - just as a random assortment, the man's worked with Sarah Polley, Ving Rhames, Oscar Isaac, Jon Hamm, Michael Fassbender, Jeffrey Dean Morgan, Lena Headey, Hugo Weaving, Carla Gugino, Kevin Costner, Dominic West, Scott Glenn, Michael Shannon, Laurence Fishburne, Billy Crudup, Patrick Wilson, Jackie Earle Haley, Jena Malone, Emily Browning, Diane Lane, Amy Adams, Russell Crowe, Chris Meloni, Geoffrey Rush, Sam Neill, Helen Mirren, Joel Edgerton, Jesse Eisenberg, Ben Affleck, Jeremy Irons, Ezra Miller, Holly Hunter, and now J.K. Simmons. I mean how in the hell did he talk Holly Hunter into a role in a goddamn capeman fighting cowlman movie. I'm still astounded he talked Sarah Polley into doing a zombie movie in a time when 1) zombies were not a big thing, and 2) she was avoiding studio pictures almost purposely (she hadn't done a studio picture since Go in 1999). Motherfucker even beat Steve McQueen to the Fassbender punch. 300 was Fassbender's first non-TV work. Like, that's a holy poo poo prescient eye for talent, especially when you realize that he's the "fight in the shade" guy who has a lot of little star moments sprinkled throughout the film. He gave Oscar Isaac a juicy villain role when the only two people prior had seen anything in him were Ridley Scott and Catherine Hardwicke (and God drat, does Isaac relish playing Blue. He has a loving BALL filling in that character). And he talked Affleck into playing Batman. That's clearly on the "worked out well" side of things. Plus he clearly has made the right choice with Gadot being Wonder Woman, based off critical reception to her. WB might just stick with him because he gives the studio access to people who would probably say no otherwise, no matter what insanity he tells them they're about to do.
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Apr 10, 2016 20:19
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This isn't even the first superhero movie Holly Hunter has done.
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Apr 10, 2016 20:22
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The Cameo posted:I feel like people also forget that Snyder attracts really ridiculous talent to movies that ostensibly these people would never attach themselves to. He's very good at convincing actors to go on his crazy adventure - just as a random assortment, the man's worked with Sarah Polley, Ving Rhames, Oscar Isaac, Jon Hamm, Michael Fassbender, Jeffrey Dean Morgan, Lena Headey, Hugo Weaving, Carla Gugino, Kevin Costner, Dominic West, Scott Glenn, Michael Shannon, Laurence Fishburne, Billy Crudup, Patrick Wilson, Jackie Earle Haley, Jena Malone, Emily Browning, Diane Lane, Amy Adams, Russell Crowe, Chris Meloni, Geoffrey Rush, Sam Neill, Helen Mirren, Joel Edgerton, Jesse Eisenberg, Ben Affleck, Jeremy Irons, Ezra Miller, Holly Hunter, and now J.K. Simmons. Speaking of this, is pretty nice what Shannon had to say about Snyder quote:"I have a ton of respect for Zack Snyder. I loved working with him on Man of Steel. I think his films have their own unique style and he’s very authentically drawn to that." http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...r-a6972776.html
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Apr 10, 2016 20:29
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Pixar is kind of on a different level, though. Or at least they were back when they made The Incredibles. I'm sure she'll be back for Brad Bird's "get back in the cage, you wasted $200 million of our money" mea culpa sequel, though.
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Apr 10, 2016 20:30
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maybe they can just leave Superman dead since people dislike him lmao
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Apr 10, 2016 20:51
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