eSports Chaebol posted:

You linked a story about Joy Karega, not Jasbir Puar as you probably intended (though she teaches at Rutgers, not Oberlin). Also, the unauthorized harvesting of organs was not done randomly by "Jews" (no individual Jewish person is responsible for the actions of any other Jewish person or people simply because of their shared Jewishness--to make such a claim is blatant anti-semitism) but at the direction of a single person, Yehuda Hiss, who harvested organs from Jews and Arabs, Israelis and Palestinians alike.

Dabir posted:

It is said that the best way to discredit something is to argue for it badly. By ypur own logic, antizionism = antisemitism, you are the moral equivalent of a Nazi, get the gently caress out.

The Insect Court posted:

I don't think I have to point out the fatuousness of suggesting that anything short of explicitly claiming that Jews as a group steal the organs of non-Jews can't be antisemitic. It's just as ridiculous as implying that the Willie Horton ad wasn't racist, because it didn't claim that all black men want to rape all white women.

The Kingfish posted:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/barghouti-plans-nonviolent-bid-to-free-west-bank-east-jerusalem/

Barghouti has reached an understanding with leadership from Hamas, Islamic Jihad. Plans for a rejection of Oslo and a nonviolent people's revolution.

Xander77 posted:

Goddamn it Gabe. Three games worth of character development wasted, and you're back to being a douchebag. Grace really should have left you to die.

The Insect Court posted:

My mistake, although Puar's presentation was delivered at Vassar.

I don't think I have to point out the fatuousness of suggesting that anything short of explicitly claiming that Jews as a group steal the organs of non-Jews can't be antisemitic. It's just as ridiculous as implying that the Willie Horton ad wasn't racist, because it didn't claim that all black men want to rape all white women.


Not all antizionism is antisemitic, but some is, and there are some antisemites who attempt to portray themselves as being merely antizionist. You, for example. At least, I assume you're not comfortable with self-identifying as an antisemite.

captainblastum posted:

Are you ever going to address the questions that people have asked you repeatedly?

The Insect Court posted:

I don't think I have to point out the fatuousness of suggesting that anything short of explicitly claiming that Jews as a group steal the organs of non-Jews can't be antisemitic. It's just as ridiculous as implying that the Willie Horton ad wasn't racist, because it didn't claim that all black men want to rape all white women.

The Insect Court posted:

My mistake, although Puar's presentation was delivered at Vassar.

I don't think I have to point out the fatuousness of suggesting that anything short of explicitly claiming that Jews as a group steal the organs of non-Jews can't be antisemitic. It's just as ridiculous as implying that the Willie Horton ad wasn't racist, because it didn't claim that all black men want to rape all white women.


Not all antizionism is antisemitic, but some is, and there are some antisemites who attempt to portray themselves as being merely antizionist. You, for example. At least, I assume you're not comfortable with self-identifying as an antisemite.

MrNemo posted:

TIC has fully embraced the mindset that Jews bear a collective responsibility for their acts since they share some common cultural/genetic heritage. Thus an attribution of a bad or criminal act against a single Jew must be an attack on the Jewish people and is anti-semitic. It's sad to see someone so strongly enmeshed in a horribly racist attitude regarding a large and diverse group of people but there you go, TIC is once again propounding a fundamentally racist viewpoint while not addressing specific questions because they're difficult.

captainblastum posted:

Also - since you're going to flat out call Dabir an anti-semite, could you explain how you reached that conclusion as well?

Dabir posted:

Don't engage with the single biggest argument in favour of antisemitism itt, just tell him to gently caress off and move on with your life.

captainblastum posted:

Are you ever going to address the questions that people have asked you repeatedly?

The Insect Court posted:

This is deep into "you lie-berals are the real racists, we conservatives don't even see race!" territory. Do you really not see how even if you begin with what is a factual occurrence(a single Israeli medical examiner is found to have removed and sold tissue and organs from bodies in his morgue, including those of both Palestinians and IDF soldiers), by contextualizing and presenting it in a way that is reminiscent of what are unquestionably antisemitic slurs("The IDF kidnaps and kills Palestinians for their organs!") even if you don't literally reiterate the same slur("Israeli Jews kidnap Christian children to drain them of their blood and perform their fiendish rituals!")?



Seems an eminently reasonable conclusion, assuming one isn't working off a "I don't see a swastika tattoo, therefore not antisemitic" sort of standard.

The Insect Court posted:

barp barp barp barp barp barp barp barp barpbarp barp barp barp barpbarpbarp barp barp barpbarpbarpbarpbarpbarp barpbarpbarpbarp barp barp barp barp barp barpbarp barp barp barp

The Insect Court posted:

Do you really not see how even if you begin with what is a factual occurrence, by contextualizing and presenting it in a way that is reminiscent of what are unquestionably antisemitic slurs even if you don't literally reiterate the same slur?

Avshalom posted:

quote:

Curbing the self-loathing Jewish defamers of Israel

Today, there are a small group of Jews and Israelis who maintain this demented tradition of self-loathing by defaming the entire Jewish nation by seeking to portray the Israel Defense Forces – undoubtedly the most moral army in the world – as craven war criminals.

Most of us are thoroughly exasperated with the obnoxious Jewish deviants who are demonizing Israel with their global campaigns, falsely defaming the IDF as monsters and war criminals. Such reprehensible elements were always the bane of the Jewish people. But today the Internet and the global media provide them with the opportunity to inflict infinitely greater damage than in the past, when their impact was more localized.

During the Middle Ages, some of the most venomous anti-Semitic propaganda emanated from self-loathing Jews, principally converts to Christianity, who represented an important element compounding the prevailing atmosphere of persecution, pogroms and expulsion.

In the 19th century, Karl Marx, who was born a Jew, spouted obscene anti-Semitic diatribes which his Jewish followers simply refused to acknowledge. In Russia in the 1880s, it was Jewish Social Revolutionaries who justified pogroms as incubators which would transform the masses into revolutionaries.

After the Bolshevik Revolution, the Soviet-appointed Yevsetskia (Jewish cadres) were more vicious than their gentile counterparts in demonizing and proscribing Judaism. More recently, during the Cold War, Diaspora Jewish communists defended Stalin as he murdered their kinsmen and applauded the Soviet regime which promoted state-sponsored anti-Semitism.

Today, there are a small group of Jews and Israelis who maintain this demented tradition of self-loathing by defaming the entire Jewish nation by seeking to portray the Israel Defense Forces – undoubtedly the most moral army in the world – as craven war criminals.

The principal Jewish group currently promoting this blood libel is a small Israeli NGO, Breaking the Silence, which was established in 2004 with the clear objective of undermining Israel. Its strategy is to defame the IDF, dramatizing “evidence” of alleged war crimes. However their “eyewitness reports” are anonymous, unverifiable and devoid of context.

Many of the alleged “crimes” were subsequently exposed as comprising anti-Israeli chatter with no basis in reality.

Indeed, allegations accusing the IDF of engaging in Cossack-like killing sprees were highlighted in cover stories by Haaretz in mid-2009 and subsequently syndicated as front-page stories in newspapers throughout the world. They were very soon proven to have been without substance. But the damage was done and the climate was created, paving the way for the notorious Goldstone Report which accused Israel of war crimes.

Today we are witnessing a replay. Breaking the Silence has released a 237-page report of “testimonies” by unnamed Israeli combatants describing alleged war crimes during the recent war in Gaza.

Again, citing anonymous sources and without context, these unsubstantiated accusations, which effectively describe the IDF and Hamas as birds of a feather, made worldwide headlines. They undoubtedly represent a curtain raiser for the forthcoming United Nations Human Rights Commission report, which promises to be as biased and as distorted as the discredited Goldstone report. The campaign is also intended to encourage the International Criminal Court to prosecute Israel for war crimes.

Of course war is horrendous, mistakes are made and innocent civilians become casualties. This applies especially in Gaza with Hamas, which aside from launching rockets and digging tunnels to murder and kidnap Israelis, also deliberately used civilians as human shields and located rocket and artillery launching pads and arms depots in densely populated locations including schools, hospitals, mosques and UN shelters.

If Israel had wantonly sought to kill civilians, it would not drop millions of leaflets and telephone hundreds of thousands of civilians urging them to evacuate areas four hours in advance of airborne attacks.

However, that is not to suggest that the IDF, even with its unique moral code of combat, is perfect.

But there are procedures in Israel for dealing with legitimate complaints or infringements of the law.

The judge advocate general systematically investigates every accusation, and there were exceptional cases which led to prosecution of offenders. But there are no cover-ups and there has not been a single case of behavior that could be described as a malicious intent to kill a civilian without cause.

Had Breaking the Silence submitted evidence that was confirmed by the judge advocate general, who then failed to act, they would have been justified in condemning and protesting against the state. But they adamantly refused to either identify those primarily low-ranking soldiers charging the IDF with war crimes or provide details of these allegations to enable their claims to be investigated by the relevant authority.

Yet they have the gall to justify circulating such unverifiable defamatory allegations on the outrageous grounds that whistleblowers would be “punished,” something inconceivable in a country which has a free press and would have a field day if there were an attempt to cover up any such incident.

Under normal circumstances, no responsible reporter or newspaper would risk publicizing such charges if prevented from verifying their veracity. Yet these monstrous libels against Israel are reproduced as though Breaking the Silence was a responsible government instrumentality or a transparent respectable human rights organization.

The problem is compounded by the fact that the bulk of funding for Breaking the Silence comes from anti-Israel NGOs, human rights associations, foreign foundations and European governments, many of whom are engaged in boycott divestment and sanctions (BDS). Some actually made their grants conditional on obtaining a minimum number of negative “testimonies.”

Tens of millions of euros originate from European governments, including the United Kingdom, which would never conceivably tolerate such foreign interference in its own domestic arena by external organizations – especially governmental bodies – seeking to subvert a democratic government under the cloak of promoting human rights. This is documented in detail in a recent NGO Monitor publication titled NGOs, Anti-Semitism and Government Funding.

The demonization and delegitimization of Israel by Jews funded by anti-Israeli groups abroad is neither an academic exercise nor an exchange of views. It is an act of sabotage, endangering the state and as pernicious as sabotaging IDF weapons depots. It would not be tolerated in any other democratic country, particularly one surrounded by neighbors fanatically committed to its destruction.

It is indisputable that the objective of Breaking the Silence is not merely criticism of Israeli policies.

After all, self-criticism, sometimes even extending to masochism, is a central feature of Israel’s robust democratic ethos. However, Breaking the Silence, a small group of disgruntled delusionary Israeli leftists backed by massive overseas funding, is unashamedly demonizing Israel throughout the world and undermining its government. It sends out emissaries to vilify Israel among Jewish and non-Jewish groups, particularly at universities. It is shameful that, purporting to uphold freedom of expression and maintain dialogue, some Hillel bodies even provide platforms for their representatives to defame the IDF.

To besmirch a nation by falsely portraying its soldiers as craven murderers undermines national morale. It is in this context that the proposal mooted by Ayelet Shaked, now justice minister, to require government approval for overseas NGOs to sponsor Israeli political bodies has considerable merit, despite the shrieks that democracy would be undermined.

Just as individuals can resort to legal means to remedy defamation, the state must also defend itself from demented citizens engaged in defamation of their country. This applies especially to Israel, the sole democratic oasis in a region in which barbarism is rampant and whose right to exist continues to be challenged by its neighbors.

Main Paineframe posted:

Stop getting trolled, you idiots. Besides, who here has any right to get their hackles up over vague insinuations of racism, considering how many of us have hurled that exact accusation at people in the I/P threads? Deflect it and move on. This entire page, so far, has been nothing more than people shitposting either at or (more often) about TIC. How about some content or discussion?

Dabir posted:

Right yeah thanks, I think I forgot to clarify that what with getting probied. What I was saying there was that if Hitler had won, we wouldn't have to put up with your posting. Now gently caress off.

Main Paineframe posted:

And while I am happy to provide material to kick-start things, it doesn't mean much if everyone's going to ignore it because they're too busy hurling one-liners and abuse. Personally, I'm not too worried about anti-Semitism accusations from the kinds of people who write poo poo like this:

uninterrupted posted:

dude.

like, on top of everything else, TIC isn't even jewish.

Main Paineframe posted:

Stop getting trolled, you idiots. Besides, who here has any right to get their hackles up over vague insinuations of racism, considering how many of us have hurled that exact accusation at people in the I/P threads? Deflect it and move on. This entire page, so far, has been nothing more than people shitposting either at or (more often) about TIC. How about some content or discussion? And while I am happy to provide material to kick-start things, it doesn't mean much if everyone's going to ignore it because they're too busy hurling one-liners and abuse. Personally, I'm not too worried about anti-Semitism accusations from the kinds of people who write poo poo like this:

drilldo squirt posted:

I got to most moral army in the world an my eyes glazed over.

Brainiac Five posted:

The most moral army in the world is the Costa Rican army, obviously.

Kajeesus posted:

A lot of SA posters avoid this thread because it is considered a hotbed of anti-Semitism,

eSports Chaebol posted:

Perhaps your perception of anti-Zionism as a codeword for anti-semitism is simply a result of your assumption that Israel and Judaism are the same thing?

Xander77 posted:

Can anyone tell me whether this (old) opinion piece about Israel supposedly working with ISIS makes sense?

Nevvy Z posted:

Source?

Avshalom posted:

me

emanresu tnuocca posted:

El'or Azaria, the executioner from Tel Rumeyda, has been officially indicted with manslaughter by the military prosecutor.

emanresu tnuocca posted:

El'or Azaria, the executioner from Tel Rumeyda, has been officially indicted with manslaughter by the military prosecutor.

emanresu tnuocca posted:

Manslaughter is the equivalent of murder of the second degree, maximum punishment 20 years in the big house. It's a serious accusation.

The main legal difference between manslaughter and murder in Israeli law is the ability to prove a 'premeditated intent', now obviously it looks like there was obvious premeditated intent in this case but Israeli law is very nitpicky in its definition of premeditated intent and generally doesn't consider 'spur of the moment' crimes to qualify as Murder. I posted a few pages back a case where some guy stabbed another guy twenty times and the court decreed it was merely manslaughter as it could not be proved that the assailant 'left his home with the intention of seeking victims to murder'.

So yeah, I wouldn't make a huge fuss about this particular distinction given the precedents in Israeli law, I would however wait to see that the accusations don't further degrade as the trial progresses.

emanresu tnuocca posted:

Manslaughter is the equivalent of murder of the second degree, maximum punishment 20 years in the big house. It's a serious accusation.

The main legal difference between manslaughter and murder in Israeli law is the ability to prove a 'premeditated intent', now obviously it looks like there was obvious premeditated intent in this case but Israeli law is very nitpicky in its definition of premeditated intent and generally doesn't consider 'spur of the moment' crimes to qualify as Murder. I posted a few pages back a case where some guy stabbed another guy twenty times and the court decreed it was merely manslaughter as it could not be proved that the assailant 'left his home with the intention of seeking victims to murder'.

So yeah, I wouldn't make a huge fuss about this particular distinction given the precedents in Israeli law, I would however wait to see that the accusations don't further degrade as the trial progresses.

quote:

A Palestinian truck driver suspected of running over and killing an Israeli man last year as part of the ongoing wave of terror attacks will face a reduced charge of manslaughter.

The unnamed suspect was arrested by the Shin Bet early last month, more than five months after the October 21 attack that killed Avraham Hasano on a West Bank road. The suspect, a resident of the West Bank village of Dahariya, had claimed he ran over Hasano by accident, fleeing the scene out of fear.

In the indictment, the suspect is accused of running over Hasano and dragging him for 37 meters (121 feet), before driving away and leaving the severely injured Israeli on the road.

After the incident, the suspect turned himself in to Palestinian police, claiming he had not intended to kill the 54-year-old Israeli father of seven from Kiryat Arba. He had previously been held at the Dahariya police station and then released by the Palestinian Authority being arrested by Israeli forces “following extensive intelligence activity,” the Shin Bet said in a statement last month.

Hasano’s family reacted angrily to the news of the reduced charge, delivered to them by military prosecutors Sunday. One son told Channel 2 that he would sit shiva (the seven-day mourning period) all over again. Hasano’s wife said she was horrified by the decision. “It was like he was murdered all over again,” she said. The family said it had anticipated that the alleged killer would be charged with murder.

Images from the scene showed Hasano emerging from his car brandishing a large wooden club after his car was pelted with rocks by Palestinians near Hebron. He approached the truck, waving the club, and was run over. He died at the scene.

The suspect said he attempted to avoid hitting Hasano but did not have enough time to swerve out of the way.

Shortly after the incident, the driver called his Israeli employer to report that he had run someone over.

Nevvy Z posted:

Source?

drilldo squirt posted:

It's a testament to how much the oppressor hates and fears the oppressed that israeli lawmakers would rather work with nazis than palestinians.