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boom boom boom posted:That's probably the high point of the entire franchise, imo That scene, and that song, are god damned amazing together. G-Reco proves him right, too.
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Apr 12, 2016 02:22
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In terms of production it makes sense I guess; far more of them were made, but it always kinda bugged me that in the far off UC continuations like Greco and Turn A there's a lot of OYW machines standin around or getting dug up, and not so much UC late era machines. But I guess a few hundred / thousand years, whats a couple of decade difference?
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Apr 12, 2016 02:32
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NikkolasKing posted:I thought Garma was supposed to be more of a jerk in Origins? I can't say, it's just what I've heard. It's... complicated. You see more of where he's coming from, and how he can be a good friend and a decent guy, how he wants to earn his place instead of getting it handed on a silver platter... But you also see him participating in some pretty lovely stuff, and not questioning it for a second. Honestly, in some ways Degwin (of all people) comes off best of the Zabis. He knows it's all gone wrong, but he just can't get out of the hell he made, no matter how he tries. (And he did try.) Meanwhile, Dozle has moments where he almost goes "Oh, gently caress. We're the baddies.", before going "Wait, no. We're the Zabis! We're a loving family of good guys. THIS IS ALL COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED." Also, Ramble Ral is a Good Dude. But, that's kinda a gimmee.
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Apr 12, 2016 02:54
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I missed the Wing discussion but I'd like to point out that it started the trend of the ensemble cast with Gundams drastically more powerful than the grunt suits with unique abilities tailored to each pilot. Also really expanded the fanbase to include more female viewers because the main characters were (teenaged) dreamboats. Relevant of course because these themes were echoed in the two most popular franchises afterwards: SEED and 00. Well, I mean I think they were going for the handsome teen angle with Kira, Athrun and his crew but I can't tell from the limitations of Hirai's art style. 00 I would say did a way better job of making everyone look really good outside of the funny looking non close up shots that everyone loves to paste.
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Apr 12, 2016 04:34
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I love 00 because it's an anime version of Foundation.
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Apr 12, 2016 04:48
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Eej posted:I missed the Wing discussion but I'd like to point out that it started the trend of the ensemble cast with Gundams drastically more powerful than the grunt suits with unique abilities tailored to each pilot. Also really expanded the fanbase to include more female viewers because the main characters were (teenaged) dreamboats. Back when I got into Gundam pretty much everyone said 00 was another take on Wing, argualbly a superior take on it. Do you guys think that was intentional? Did the writers seriously sit down and say "let's use Wing as a formula but put a few big spins on it?" I mean, there are definite similarities but I dunno if I'd go so far as to say they were trying to "re-imagine" it. This is all disregarding 00S2 obviously, when it completely stops being like Wing.
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Apr 12, 2016 04:53
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NikkolasKing posted:Back when I got into Gundam pretty much everyone said 00 was another take on Wing, argualbly a superior take on it. I think the writers just wanted to tell a story about the dangers of globalization, Weeaboos with more power than sanity (Graham), and how it all connects to A Literal Obama Analogue At The End Of S1/NEW MODEL KITS BUY BUY BUY. Gundam Wing's story is pretty focused on the aesthetics of war, and how dumb it is to give a poo poo about such a thing if you're actually trying to accomplish anything of value/NEW MODEL KITS BUY BUY BUY/Nice boots, all of OZ. The biggest similarity to Wing is that it has a group we can call The Gundam Boys all working together for some goal that is poorly defined and ends up being a sham, leading to our heroes striking out on their own in defiance to the Plan (which wasn't the True Plan anyway). The "twists" they put into the formula, so to speak, are what make the show more of its own thing, rather than "Wing For Today".
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Apr 12, 2016 05:16
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The Gundam Boys thing works really well because if you don't like the main character you're usually SOL but since they are roughly given equal importance unless your name is Allelujah, a fan can eventually find a favourite to latch onto. And then buy the model kit of. Or maybe just buy all the model kits because there's FIVE DIFFERENT GUNDAMS with different abilities!! I wouldn't say that it's a "re-imagination" of Wing but it definitely takes a lot of themes from it for Season , although I think Marina is more poking fun at Lacus than inverted Relena. But I mean Gundam is self referential as hell to the point where I thought Fumitan was a Shirin reference even though super serious competent maid with glasses is just a really generic stereotype.
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Apr 12, 2016 05:29
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you're sol if your favorite Gundam boy gets killed before s2 though 
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Apr 12, 2016 05:42
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Eej posted:The Gundam Boys thing works really well because if you don't like the main character you're usually SOL but since they are roughly given equal importance unless your name is Allelujah, a fan can eventually find a favourite to latch onto. And then buy the model kit of. Or maybe just buy all the model kits because there's FIVE DIFFERENT GUNDAMS with different abilities!! One thing I liked is they telegraph the Naudleeh's existence right from the first episode; if you check their radar displays it tags the Gundams as 01, 02, 03, 05.
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Apr 12, 2016 05:53
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Which of course makes no sense because if you're go out of the way to make a fat suit for your secret Gundam to hide its identity why would you go and leave a hole in the production sequence???dogsicle posted:you're sol if your favorite Gundam boy gets killed before s2 though Gundam is a story of never ending conflict, between the writer and merchandising.
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Apr 12, 2016 06:13
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No but seriously, the 00 authors must have read a lot of old sci-fi like Asimov and Clarke and it shows and that's why it's great.
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Apr 12, 2016 06:59
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MonsieurChoc posted:I love 00 because it's an anime version of Foundation. MonsieurChoc posted:No but seriously, the 00 authors must have read a lot of old sci-fi like Asimov and Clarke and it shows and that's why it's great. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. Like out of all the AU's 00 is the only one that goes into the crazy 70's Sci Fi poo poo like the original series did.
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Apr 12, 2016 10:22
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Ribbons is more entertaining the the Mule too, because at least Ribbons has emotions. I read Foundation and Empire and thought the Mule boring as hell (and the book a bad sequel to a great book because of it) because he just never really displays any emotion. Even when his plan is foiled and everything he worked for gone at the end he basically goes "Oh well, so long" and walks off. No anger, no outbursts, no reprisals, no anything. I wouldn't quite put Ribbons on the level of Rau for bad villains (and no, I don't care that he had a speech you really liked), or especially of Neo, but I wouldn't put him much higher either. He's just better than the Mule. Having a megalomaniac villain like him who wanted to rule the world still feels really inappropriate for the story 00 was shooting for though, especially the first season. He falls in line with the Mule, but I wish they'd done their own thing there instead. I also think it's a pity Wing is such a silly show most times because it's themes, dealing with drones and the future and role of warfare and soldiers in society, especially those who are done, are really fertile ground and becoming more relevant, not less. I'd love to see a show that dealt with them properly. tsob fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 11:48
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dogsicle posted:you're sol if your favorite Gundam boy gets killed before s2 though That's okay, he has a brother we never mentioned before who just happens to look and sound just like him!
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Apr 12, 2016 14:22
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they mentioned that lockon has a twin brother at some point in S1 i think he was even on screen very briefly
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Apr 12, 2016 15:11
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ninjewtsu posted:they mentioned that lockon has a twin brother at some point in S1 He was. There's a scene where Lockon is visiting his family's grave and it pans back to show ANOTHER LOCKON hiding behind a tree. Replacing a dead character with his identical twin brother is still dumb though.
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Apr 12, 2016 15:15
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Yah it's a hokey thing to do but whether or not it was planned that far in advance they still gave themselves an out
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Apr 12, 2016 15:16
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MonsieurChoc posted:Is it Yep. It is a really bitter sweet moment, as most of the elderly crew have lived their entire lives fighting in this hosed up era and are still willing to sacrifice so much for the young. Victory has so much nilhistic depressing bollocks this moment out of the blue pretty much gives anyone enough energy to sit through the ending. Plus that song is amazing.
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Apr 12, 2016 15:25
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i don't know if it would have been better or worse if they didn't call lockon's twin brother lockon it would have been a little less blatant replacement
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Apr 12, 2016 15:31
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ninjewtsu posted:i don't know if it would have been better or worse if they didn't call lockon's twin brother lockon I wish they had a few more scenes to show that he was different from his brother, outside of not being interested in whatsherface
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Apr 12, 2016 15:33
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Srice posted:I wish they had a few more scenes to show that he was different from his brother, outside of not being interested in whatsherface well he liked using pistols more than his brother ever did. that's something right?
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Apr 12, 2016 15:48
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fivegears4reverse posted:The biggest similarity to Wing is that it has a group we can call The Gundam Boys all working together for some goal that is poorly defined and ends up being a sham, leading to our heroes striking out on their own in defiance to the Plan (which wasn't the True Plan anyway). The "twists" they put into the formula, so to speak, are what make the show more of its own thing, rather than "Wing For Today". Well, that and I could probably count on one hand the number of times the Wing main cast actually did work together, as opposed to getting a random pair of the pilots in one place for a period and then wandering off again. It's only when getting tricked into killing a bunch of dudes they shouldn't have killed (and they all arrived independently for that, promptly splitting up again afterwards) and then in the end game that you actually get all five Wing pilots in one place consistently. They certainly weren't a unified team like Celestial Being; hell, they didn't even know each other existed initially. The whole "The Gundam Boys" thing with Wing is more or less made up wholesale by extraneous-to-the-actual-show artwork from Sunrise and many many years of fans playing telephone.
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Apr 12, 2016 16:39
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tsob posted:Ribbons is more entertaining the the Mule too, because at least Ribbons has emotions. I read Foundation and Empire and thought the Mule boring as hell (and the book a bad sequel to a great book because of it) because he just never really displays any emotion. Even when his plan is foiled and everything he worked for gone at the end he basically goes "Oh well, so long" and walks off. No anger, no outbursts, no reprisals, no anything. He serves the same purpose of putting a wrench into the Seldon Plan/Veda, because a plan going perfectly is boring, although in both cases it could have been executed better. I think the reason I didn't hate the 00 movie is because I saw it a as sci-fi rather than mecha, so the boring fights didn't bother me as much.
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Apr 12, 2016 17:10
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I thought the 00 movie was boring sci-fi too honestly. It doesn't spend enough time on the interesting aspect because so much is dedicated to fighting so the ELS are just Spooky Space Monsters who Setsuna rainbows at.
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Apr 12, 2016 17:16
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I liked the build-up in the first half of the movie. It's a shame that most of what it leads to is a lot of bad, superfluous action against an ugly CG mess, all for the sake of advertising those new Gundams.
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Apr 12, 2016 17:27
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Remember when they introduced a new Innovator, and then he died?
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Apr 12, 2016 17:37
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Well Manicured Man posted:That's okay, he has a brother we never mentioned before who just happens to look and sound just like him! IBO has the same problem, but there isn't a convenient twin brother as a replacement
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Apr 12, 2016 17:58
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ImpAtom posted:I thought the 00 movie was boring sci-fi too honestly. It doesn't spend enough time on the interesting aspect because so much is dedicated to fighting so the ELS are just Spooky Space Monsters who Setsuna rainbows at. I like the movie, but yeah, they should have spent more time on it. The idea of the ELS communicating by absorption was a really neat idea and it made them feel really alien. boom boom boom posted:Remember when they introduced a new Innovator, and then he died? I can understand people being pissed about this, but I did like how it emphasized being an innovator doesn't mean you become a good person and that it will automatically lead to peace. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Apr 12, 2016 |
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Apr 12, 2016 18:12
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Well Manicured Man posted:That's okay, he has a brother we never mentioned before who just happens to look and sound just like him! While Lockon 2 as a replacement for Lockon 1 is pretty bad, the twins were shown very early in S1 when Neil goes to his family's grave. Lyle's problem is that while there's some perfunctory attempts at making him his own man (his deliberately awful hitting on Feldt, the fact that he's working for Katharon as well as CB) the production knowingly makes him become his brother - to the point of having him ask Haro if Lockon 1 had any catchphrases when making a shot.
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Apr 12, 2016 18:34
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Traveller posted:While Lockon 2 as a replacement for Lockon 1 is pretty bad, the twins were shown very early in S1 when Neil goes to his family's grave. My bad, it's been a while since I saw 00, I must have forgotten about Lockon's brother showing up in season 1. I'm not going to stop laughing about it, though.
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Apr 13, 2016 01:38
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What is the most accessible/least silly/prettiest animated series of Gundam?
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Apr 13, 2016 15:06
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Maybe unicorn? I haven't seen iron blooded orphans but it sounds like it's pretty accessible Turn a gundam is also probably a good choice
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Apr 13, 2016 15:14
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The most accessible, not-silly, and pretty Gundam is probably 0080 or 08th MS Team. Anything else is going to hit at least one of those three. ninjewtsu posted:Turn a gundam is also probably a good choice Turn-A Gundam is a poor recommendation to anyone who doesn't want silly in their Gundam.
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Apr 13, 2016 15:20
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Vitamin P posted:What is the most accessible/least silly/prettiest animated series of Gundam? 0080 fits the first two criteria. It's well animated too but not the first I'd go to for best animation.
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Apr 13, 2016 15:20
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Gundam SEED. It's accessible/least silly, while it has good fights they recycle the animation too much, enough epic music to full 4 CDs. Also 0080/08th MS team.
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Apr 13, 2016 15:26
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Gundam Seed is a goofy space soap opera and its animation has aged so poorly due to a lot of factors (early digipaint, bad cg, etc). I have a soft spot for some of the show but I don't think it's a good fit for the request
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Apr 13, 2016 15:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWjfbUfcJUM Nothing silly here, no sir.
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Apr 13, 2016 15:37
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Vitamin P posted:What is the most accessible/least silly/prettiest animated series of Gundam? In combination? Probably Iron-Blooded Orphans. There are prettier Gundam shows (like the new Unicorn one, which was originally an OVA with an extremely relaxed production schedule and a crazy-huge budget before they recut it for a TV release), but none that are quite as accessible and quite as serious (though you should remember that as giant robot melodrama, the franchise as a whole has a pretty high baseline level of silliness, which IBO is no exception to). As an alternate-universe outside the main Universal Century setting, Iron-Blooded Orphans has basically zero barriers to entry, tells a dark, mostly-serious story about child soldiers trying to carve out a place for themselves in a hostile solar system (and does so with some unusually human and involved characterisation for the franchise), and looks pretty good despite its TV budget and production schedule, with consistently impressive fight choreography. Your other options for 'serious and accessible' are SEED and 00, older and considerably uglier alternate-universes (though 00 does have its merits in the looks department, despite its many bad fight choreography decisions). Your other option for 'pretty and accessible' is Gundam Build Fighters, a happy, charming, and mouth-wateringly good-looking action-comedy sports show with a lovably absurd sense of humour. Your other options for 'serious and good-looking' are the aforementioned Unicorn and the Universal Century OVAs (0080, 0083, The 08th MS Team, and Thunderbolt), which are serious, big-budget war stories closely tied into the sprawling main continuity of the Gundam franchise. Finally, there's Turn A Gundam, which is more light-hearted than most Gundam shows, and less accessible than most alternate-universes (because it's a reflective meditation on its franchise by its creator), but is worth mentioning because it's astonishingly lovely for a fifty-episode TV series from the nineties, and is widely considered the magnum opus of the franchise even to this day.
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Apr 13, 2016 15:44
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Vitamin P posted:What is the most accessible/least silly/prettiest animated series of Gundam? All of Gundam is pretty goofy, but 08th MS Team is mostly a ground-level show that's shades of the Korean/Vietnam wars with a cromulent 90's art style. Other "good" "starters" would be 0080 and maybe Iron-Blooded Orphans. Honestly, I'd just start with Mobile Suit Gundam, but I like 70's/80's animation. Wales Grey fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Apr 13, 2016 |
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Apr 13, 2016 15:52
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