Payday 3: We've Been Robbed

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Payday 3: We've Been Robbed

watho: Aug 2, 2013; The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.

Grapplejack posted:

Holy poo poo that brawler tree

Imagine playing it with the yakuza tree or sociopath and suddenly you're a monster and you start out and stay that way.

Armorer + Brawler Yakuza does seem like a really fun build. Zipping around in a fatsuit while mowing down people, and then hitting anyone with a melee attack for a practically instant reload.

Dr Cheeto posted:

Regeneration decks seem like they'll have powerful synergy with Frenzy ace, you're effectively trading some EHP for a 60% boost in effective regeneration. Infiltrator + Frenzy ace means you could regenerate two-thirds of your health with a single melee attack every 10 seconds. Grinder could be back to wading into assault waves without giving a gently caress about cops.

I never even considered that synergy. :swoon:

# ? Apr 15, 2016 15:29

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# ? May 13, 2024 21:48

Laputanmachine: Oct 31, 2010; by Smythe

hellfaucet posted:

I hadn't played this game in well over a year and reinstalled it last night. I popped back in and started futzing around trying to remember all the details and might have hosed up. So it looks like there are Perks now - I used all my points on Maniac but didn't really understand what I was doing, I don't see an option to respec Perks, am I SOL?

Maybe temporarily, but maniac is pretty good if you are able to click cops and keep clicking cops. Finish the maniac perk deck first and keep using it until you get some other perks finished. Perk decks persist even through infamies, so you can never lose them, just keep playing and keep building the decks until you have them all.

For the next perk deck after maniac I suggest Muscle. It gives you a shitload of HP and a passive regen effect to boot so it should keep you alive trhough some bad decisions. It also makes cops panic if you fire at them which is also cool.

The perk decks have been in the game for way more than a year (two years?) and the game has changed a hell of a lot in that time. Jump on in the steam channel and mumble and we'll walk you through some heists.

Have you even played Diamond or Hotline Miami or Big Bank yet? If not, you're in for some real treats and they're not even the only good new heists by a long shot!

# ? Apr 15, 2016 15:33

Tulip: Jun 3, 2008; yeah thats pretty good

My thoughts so far:

Medic: Ace Inspire remains in the game, so this will likely be among if not the most commonly picked tree. Both medical deployables are here, so that also means a TON of medical deployables will be around.
Controller: Hostage Taker is an excellent skill for dodge builds, we all know that. Endurance also synergizes with dodge, so that's cool. I've never been impressed with Joker, and Stockholm Syndrome is Stockholm Syndrome, so filling out the middle of the tree seems a little painful. Good tree for a splash in for Endurance.
Sharpshooter: Feels pretty weak, especially compared to the other weapon trees. Ammo Efficiency is nice but doubt I'd want to spend 28 points for it, though I don't use the Thanatos much. Marksman has potential with the Uzi and Krinkov.
Shotguner[sic]: Ace Overkill remains dumb, so that frees up 6 points, and unless you're using the Izhma/Steakout regular Overkill is eh so that's another 4, allowing another possibility for multitree shenanigans. Close By is the real stand out here, holy poo poo. I've seen some people poo poo on Far Away, but those of us who like to run all shotguns know the pain of snipers. It's 32 points to get everything but Overkill, which is kind of tempting since these are some tasty skills.
Armorer: Unless CTV changes dramatically, Aced Ironman is going to be one of the most important skills to pick up. Bulletproof feels like a no-brainer over Bullseye. I'd rather have Die Hard than Transporter, but seems like either is a good pick and a good choice for a splash. The confusingly named Oppressor is going to be the splash choice du jour for non Armored builds.
Ammunition Specialist: Oof. First of all, another confusingly named skill in Ammunition Specialist. Aced Fully Loaded is a mouthful of a skill, but pretty loving cool. Being able to saw through shields seems cool for me, perennial saw bitch that I am. Still, an incredibly unsexy tree. I expect to see a lot of demand unfulfilled, though I could be proven wrong by grenade enthusiasts.
Engineer: Sentries are a lot better but still sentries. Jack of All trades is much better and opens up some possibilities, and Engineering Aced deals with sentries most critical failing. I'm still skeptical.
Breacher: Making it so trip mines aren't used for C4 is a loving great move. I foresee a decent amount of splash to pick up Drill Sawgeant. Not sure if Fire Trap will be enough to make one-use trip mines seem like a good deployable to bring.
Oppressor: Jesus Christ. This tree is monstrous. The enormity of getting 50% of the Bulldozer's headshot bonus applied for body shots is...words fail. Fast Fire is a clear choice over Shock & Awe, and Shock & Awe isn't bad. Both of the Tier 2s are worth splashing for, and Steady Grip basic has got to be one of the best uses of 1 point for non-Sharpshooters out there. If I were to make a guess on what build is going to replace the ubiquitous Masterforcer, it's Medic + Armorer + Oppressor.
Covert Ops: The stealth tree. Not terribly interesting to me, though I can think of multiple times where near-wipes were averted by well-timed feedbacks. Of course, it looks like you can now feedback with no skills invested, so for a lot of applications that's enough. Cleaner being the source for all assets makes it a potential 5 point splash for Expert Driver.
Commando: Sneaky Bastard is probably the most important skill here. I'm sure most of us have worked out a <5 concealment loadout, so Low Blow Aced is a little overkill, freeing up 6 points. I'd probably re invest it back into the tree. Aced Duck & Cover, Aced Evasion, Basic Thick Skin, Basic Sneaky Bastard, Aced Shockproof, Basic Lowblow clocks in at 26 points.
Silent Killer: This whole goddamn tree is nuts. You know something's gone crazy when +30% damage is probably the least appealing skill. Optic Illusions [sic] is fantastic for Commando builds (remember, most silencers are only a 2 concealment penalty in the first place), but the Professional alone is good enough to justify things like silenced KSPs.
Gunslinger: I'm not excited about Trigger Happy, and given the current weapon damage breakpoints and status of pistols I don't see much reason to take Gun Play, but everything else here is great.
Relentless: Swan Song - still a thing. I like this whole tree. I like everything about it. I don't think it's good enough to count as a substitution for Armorer or Commando, but it's some pretty significant increases to survivability. Up You Go looks particularly important for Grinder builds.
Brawler: Probably the most mixed bag. Never was a fan of Berserker, and Frenzy seems to be built around Berserking. Bloodthirst looks like it has good synergy with Sociopath, so that might be a thing. Other than that, as much as I might enjoy melee, we're fundamentally playing a shooter.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 15:47

hellfaucet: Apr 7, 2009

Laputanmachine posted:

Have you even played Diamond or Hotline Miami or Big Bank yet? If not, you're in for some real treats and they're not even the only good new heists by a long shot!

Big Bank is the last major new heist I remember playing before getting distracted by other games.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 15:48

Dr Cheeto: Mar 2, 2013; Wretched Harp

I'm pretty confident frenzy will be worthwhile for regeneration decks even without picking up berserker.

Dr Cheeto fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Apr 15, 2016

# ? Apr 15, 2016 15:56

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

PantsOptional posted:

That Gunslinger tree almost certainly spells an upcoming pistols nerf, huh?

Well, yeah:

Discendo Vox posted:

Pistols come to mind as needing a bunch of nerfs and buffs, but their interaction with skill systems makes them very complicated to tweak. A lot of weapon-specific changes are in order there.

Disgusting Coward posted:

I'm not up to speed with all the Payday goon in-jokes - is Death Vox just one dude posting his insane fanfiction for how he'd like Payday 2 to be?

# ? Apr 15, 2016 16:00

Dr Cheeto: Mar 2, 2013; Wretched Harp

I'm really looking forward to shanking a cop before initiating my piglet reload, personally.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 16:09

Tempest_56: Mar 14, 2009

Hm, this isn't quite what I was expecting, but I'd say it has a lot of potential.

- Gunslinger looks pretty good. About as expected, though akimbos becoming inherent is a surprise. Dance Instructor (which I presume doesn't count for revolvers) is going to be amazing for things like the Deagle. Slight nerf from Gunslinger to Gun Play, since it seems to read as capping out at +10 damage instead of +15. And Trigger Happy as a capstone is laughable.

- Actually really liking Relentless, particularly for newer players and for pubstoving. An extra down for 4 skill points is nice, and the second tier looks drat handy for avoiding chain downs. Feign Death is probably going to be underappreciated since it's opposite Swan Song (which doesn't seem to give unlimited ammo anymore), but a 75% chance to get back up when downed seems pretty nice. And Messiah is now actually looking real good.

- Brawler's niche, obviously, but Frenzy looks like it could make for some GREAT gimmicks.

I'd call this a good set overall, though I'm slightly sad about SMG Specialist going away.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 16:11

Grapplejack: Nov 27, 2007

Stockholm syndrome is actually good now, since hostages you've taken that are freed by police won't move anymore. They just sit there and act as a free revive and ammo refill if you go down near them.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 16:12

Dr Cheeto: Mar 2, 2013; Wretched Harp

Tempest_56 posted:

Feign Death is probably going to be underappreciated since it's opposite Swan Song (which doesn't seem to give unlimited ammo anymore), but a 75% chance to get back up when downed seems pretty nice.

The issue with Feign Death is the same issue Nine Lives ace has today: you're going to waste downs automatically getting up in a bad place to get up. It's probably less of an issue now that saigadozers have taken a chill pill, but you could still find yourself in a place when you'd rather not pop back up immediately.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 16:18

John Murdoch: May 19, 2009; I can tune a fish.

Well and presumably Up You Go will help with that. I'd be more concerned with getting tagged by Tasers/Cloakers right as you get back up.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 16:23

watho: Aug 2, 2013; The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.

Dr Cheeto posted:

I'm really looking forward to shanking a cop before initiating my piglet reload, personally.

That skill will make the piglet usable and the flamethrower even more betterer.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 16:36

Kazzah: Jul 15, 2011; Formerly known as
Krazyface; Hair Elf

Just had the weirdest bug where every cop my friends killed (out of my sight) appeared on my screen as alive, just crouching there, inactive. They still blocked my path, and I could still shoot them, but the didn't drop ammo because they were already dead. There were just standing there, dozens of them, on the rooftops and shipping containers and so on. Apparently I was glitching all over to the others.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 16:43

Dr Cheeto: Mar 2, 2013; Wretched Harp

John Murdoch posted:

Well and presumably Up You Go will help with that. I'd be more concerned with getting tagged by Tasers/Cloakers right as you get back up.

It's got the same DR as painkillers, which won't save you when you get shouted up two times in a row in front of two dozers you're desperately trying to murder with bleedout Thanatos fire :argh:

# ? Apr 15, 2016 16:47

Tulip: Jun 3, 2008; yeah thats pretty good

Dr Cheeto posted:

I'm pretty confident frenzy will be worthwhile for regeneration decks even without picking up berserker.

Yeah, the infiltrator synergy that got pointed out kind of goes above my analysis. It's especially good as a 10 point splash. If it was higher in the tree then eh, since after Medic + Armorer/Commando I'd rather have Oppressor or Shotguner[sic] or Silent Killer.

John Murdoch posted:

Well and presumably Up You Go will help with that. I'd be more concerned with getting tagged by Tasers/Cloakers right as you get back up.

I'm personally quite enthusiastic about that skill, since it's wipe-preventing. I'll almost certainly try a gimmick that maxes out that tree.

watho posted:

make the piglet ~~usable~~ even more betterer.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 16:52

Psion: Dec 13, 2002; eVeN I KnOw wHaT CoRnEr gAs iS

John Murdoch posted:

Well and presumably Up You Go will help with that. I'd be more concerned with getting tagged by Tasers/Cloakers right as you get back up.

I'm still not sure Up You Go will counteract the fun that is a DW assault team, chilled out Saigas or not. I'm not sure about that skill on all difficulties but on Ovk/below it's probably going to be super good. Sometimes I like being able to fire an rpg at point-blank range while downed and not have to worry about downing myself :v:

Still, a swan song where you shoot 10000 bullets and then get right back up sounds .... good.

Psion fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Apr 15, 2016

# ? Apr 15, 2016 16:53

spit on my clit: Jul 19, 2015; by Cyrano4747

watho posted:

It does seem like Akimbos are just straight up available from the get-go by the phrasing.

I want..all of these!

edit: oh man this is gonna make Sociopath a whooooole lot sweeter :getin:

# ? Apr 15, 2016 17:05

Crabtree: Oct 17, 2012; ARRRGH! Get that wallet out!
Everybody: Lowtax in a Pickle!
Pickle! Pickle! Pickle! Pickle!; Dinosaur Gum

So Hitman will just give you basic unstable as poo poo akimbo while high Gunslinger will give you the more stable flavor? It'd make the deck worthless again if everyone had the basic capacity to use 2 guns sloppy style right from the get go.

As for Brawler, this is as close as we've ever gotten to a melee build. I hope it can let people tank shots and smack people to death if they wish, but its closer than it was to before by allowing melee to shine as its own thing in a game about killing cops however you want. All we need now is some high powered melee weapons that take the place of primary gun spots, but offer some real DPS style damage at close range. Like say a Chainsaw that can utilize Sociopath/Muscle's panic very well. It'll require ammo to fill up its gas and probably reload as fast as the flamethrower, but its my dumb dream weapon.

When's this beta supposed to hit again?

# ? Apr 15, 2016 17:45

Cyrelio: Mar 28, 2015

Hobold posted:

I suggested that once, he complained about not being able to mark things. His getting caught is the only real hurdle to us completing that heist in DW. Its one of the last ones for us to clear. Alesso being the other. Same issue there.

Sounds like your spotter is just an idiot who is holding you back from accomplishing so much in this game. You'd probably be better off with the alternative. :lol:

# ? Apr 15, 2016 18:03

Grapplejack: Nov 27, 2007

Hobold posted:

I suggested that once, he complained about not being able to mark things. His getting caught is the only real hurdle to us completing that heist in DW. Its one of the last ones for us to clear. Alesso being the other. Same issue there.

So uh, just do the heist loud then.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 18:08

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

I really hope the beta goes up in a timely fashion. So hype.

EDIT: It looks like we won't see a beta any sooner than 4/22 and it could come later than that. There's apparently a stream of the new skills happening on 4/22 and it'll be the our 'first look' at the new system. Kind of disappointed they'd tease us for a month and then make us wait but ah well.

Mendrian fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Apr 15, 2016

# ? Apr 15, 2016 18:56

LuciferMorningstar: Aug 12, 2012; VIDEO GAME MODIFICATION IS TOTALLY THE SAME THING AS A FEMALE'S BODY AND CLONING SAID MODIFICATION IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS RAPE, GUYS!!!!!!!

So what happens when you ace Frenzy, Berserker, Subsonic Rounds, Unseen Strike, Fast Fire, and Body Expertise? Slap a silencer on your Lebensauger/M308 and just lol as you one-shot literally every cop on the map? With body shots, I mean. It's not like you'd have to aim very well.

Mendrian posted:

EDIT: It looks like we won't see a beta any sooner than 4/22 and it could come later than that. There's apparently a stream of the new skills happening on 4/22 and it'll be the our 'first look' at the new system. Kind of disappointed they'd tease us for a month and then make us wake but ah well.

I'm not surprised. I wouldn't be shocked if they haven't finalized any values, or if a substantial chunk of changes haven't been implemented.

LuciferMorningstar fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Apr 15, 2016

# ? Apr 15, 2016 19:19

Dr Cheeto: Mar 2, 2013; Wretched Harp

LuciferMorningstar posted:

So what happens when you ace Frenzy, Berserker, Subsonic Rounds, Unseen Strike, Fast Fire, and Body Expertise? Slap a silencer on your Lebensauger/M308 and just lol as you one-shot literally every cop on the map? With body shots, I mean. It's not like you'd have to aim very well.

Fast Fire and Body Expertise only work on guns fired in full-auto.

But: yes.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 19:28

LuciferMorningstar: Aug 12, 2012; VIDEO GAME MODIFICATION IS TOTALLY THE SAME THING AS A FEMALE'S BODY AND CLONING SAID MODIFICATION IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS RAPE, GUYS!!!!!!!

Dr Cheeto posted:

Fast Fire and Body Expertise only work on guns fired in full-auto.

But: yes.

Yeah, I just realized that. gently caress it, though. You can mod the 308 to be automatic.

E: Nope, go for a DMR AMR. ~370 damage before crits or Body Expertise.

And if you really wanted to do this with snipers, you could drop out of Oppressor and just run for aced Low Blow to stack as much as 65% crit chance.

LuciferMorningstar fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Apr 15, 2016

# ? Apr 15, 2016 19:30

UnknownMercenary: Nov 1, 2011; I LIKE IT
WAY WAY TOO LOUD

So are they gonna dial back the gun damage... ?

Because it's not like crits or swansong needed buffs but here we are.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 20:09

Afraid of Audio: Oct 12, 2012; by exmarx

UnknownMercenary posted:

So are they gonna dial back the gun damage... ?

Because it's not like crits or swansong needed buffs but here we are.

it wouldnt be unreasonable since there are now skills to support them

# ? Apr 15, 2016 20:11

Bootcha: Nov 13, 2012; Truly, the pinnacle of goaltending; Grimey Drawer

Brawler?

WHAT A LOVELY DAY!

# ? Apr 15, 2016 20:17

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

UnknownMercenary posted:

So are they gonna dial back the gun damage... ?

Because it's not like crits or swansong needed buffs but here we are.

We're going a different route to control damage: enemies will no longer drop ammo.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 20:41

LuciferMorningstar: Aug 12, 2012; VIDEO GAME MODIFICATION IS TOTALLY THE SAME THING AS A FEMALE'S BODY AND CLONING SAID MODIFICATION IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS RAPE, GUYS!!!!!!!

UnknownMercenary posted:

So are they gonna dial back the gun damage... ?

Because it's not like crits or swansong needed buffs but here we are.

Decrease enemy health, increase enemy damage :getin:

# ? Apr 15, 2016 20:45

Tulip: Jun 3, 2008; yeah thats pretty good

Dialing back gun damage would make sense, given that they have a bunch of +damage skills that really don't seem like they'd help weapons hit new breakpoints.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 20:53

ClonedPickle: Apr 23, 2010

Still no sprinting + charging melee, smh

I really really hope this skill tree rework comes with like 20 or 30 more skill build slots though, there's a lot of poo poo I want to try. I guess there's a mod for that? Probably time to get that mod.

fake edit: although it'll probably break when the update comes out ughgughguh

# ? Apr 15, 2016 21:07

Crabtree: Oct 17, 2012; ARRRGH! Get that wallet out!
Everybody: Lowtax in a Pickle!
Pickle! Pickle! Pickle! Pickle!; Dinosaur Gum

Tulip posted:

Dialing back gun damage would make sense, given that they have a bunch of +damage skills that really don't seem like they'd help weapons hit new breakpoints.

Get ready for a new wave of bitching when and if all guns hit something of a collective nerf. I'm not really sure if they would be notably weaker depending on how much they scale back either the outright stats of the gun or the bonuses from the skills, but remember, there is still a generation of players that rattle their cage for safe house customization. We can only hope that the implementation of SHC will be entirely through microtransactions.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 22:27

Tulip: Jun 3, 2008; yeah thats pretty good

Cue "who cares about balance in a coop game!"

# ? Apr 15, 2016 22:52

spit on my clit: Jul 19, 2015; by Cyrano4747

who cares about..hey, gently caress you :mad:

I'd actually support microtransaction safe house customization, especially if you start out in the shittiest shack of a safe house instead of the dry cleaning place, only because the fanbase would be sooo mad

# ? Apr 15, 2016 23:00