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That all makes total sense. The best chapters of Thus Spoke Rohan Kishibe are where it's just some weird murder story Rohan told his editor about why he spent all his money on a loving mountain range and is now crashing at Koichi's place, or Rohan telling you this hosed story he heard while at a confessional in Italy, or here's a weird thing that happened to Rohan when he visited Gucci, but it doesn't half to star Rohan. Like half of them aren't even stories about Stands, it's just Some Weird poo poo Happens.
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Apr 16, 2016 13:53
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Moltrey posted:I agree, a newly met father and song saving an invisible baby and the son realizing his father is remorseful and fallible too and them coming to understand each other better as family was a pointless waste of time. And then Araki forgets to resolve it so it doesn't go anywhere and in retrospect should be dropped. That's a pretty big problem with the series as a whole. He keeps changing his mind about what he wants to do but because it's serialised he can't go back and edit it to tidy it up. So you have completely dropped plot points like the baby pr the guy who rescued him as a kid in the storm. It would really benefit from being iterated on but that's hard to do when it's already been published.
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Apr 16, 2016 15:31
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CJ posted:And then Araki forgets to resolve it so it doesn't go anywhere and in retrospect should be dropped. I don't think you fundamentally understand human interaction if you don't think it was resolved.
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Apr 16, 2016 15:38
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Boogaleeboo posted:I don't think you fundamentally understand human interaction if you don't think it was resolved. Where were the baby's parents?
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Apr 16, 2016 15:44
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What more did you want a senile 79 year old and a several month invisible baby to do, exactly? They show up to resolve the RPS kid angle, then Joseph adopts her because they can't find her parents so she's given a loving home where her presence makes Joseph's twilight years better by her presence and she's symbolic of Joseph's attempt to make his absence in Josuke's life right by being in hers because Josuke doesn't need him at his age anyway. CJ posted:Where were the baby's parents? Not in Morioh, they found Shizuka at a bus-stop. Like you can argue that Shizuka could have shown up in Part 6 in some capacity, but it's not really like the kind of part that SO was.
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Apr 16, 2016 15:45
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CJ posted:Where were the baby's parents? How is that relevant to Joseph and Josuke's relationship and character development? It's not Shizuka herself that's important. CJ posted:So you have completely dropped plot points like ... the guy who rescued him as a kid in the storm. That wasn't a "dropped plot point" , it was the backstory for Josuke's hairstyle and personality. I don't know if you're just salty it wasn't longer or what. tiistai fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 16:13
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Why was George Joestar such a no-one? Where is Sadao Kujo? Where is Jolynesmom Hasnoname? Where is Sadafumi Kujo? Where is Yoshiteru Kira? These are all direct JoJo parents with no worthwhile appearances (to date in regards to JoJolion parents) They're all more significant than Shizuka's 'rents.
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Apr 16, 2016 16:35
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CJ posted:And then Araki forgets to resolve it so it doesn't go anywhere and in retrospect should be dropped. You really do work at justifying that red text, don't you?
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Apr 16, 2016 16:48
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CJ posted:And then Araki forgets to resolve it so it doesn't go anywhere and in retrospect should be dropped. After they save the baby, Josuke and Joseph are seen walking around together, sometimes Joseph is holding the baby, sometimes he may not, not like we could tell either way. In the end, the baby gets a good home, Josuke feels comfortable enough with his new dad to steal his wallet at the end and we are content with the end point, despite having lingering questions. But the thing is these questions wouldn't matter at all if they were answered anymore. I mean, yeah it's lovely some parents don't have a baby, but what else was Joseph supposed to do. The guy who saved Josuke thing is something that will come up a few times when the anime gets there, and I totally understand how people jump to the thought that Josuke saved himself through Kira loving with time. But Kira's time power never gets to that point and we are left with a mysterious pompadour man. While that's also a lingering question, it's one that should never be answered and is actually a less satisfying answer if it the answer is It Was Just Josuke Saving Himself. The mysterious man appearing out of nowhere, selflessly helping Josuke and Tomoko at detriment to himself is the theme of Part 4 distilled down to a scene.Jotaro says that Morioh has a Golden Spirit. Part 4, Morioh and all our cool friends that live there get by on helping people, for little reason. Josuke be-friends Okuyasu after his brother dies even though he has no reason to and Okuyasu just tried to kill Josuke. Josuke and Okuyasu watch Koichi like a hawk just cause this new girl is sus as gently caress. Rohan saves Josuke in the tunnel not out of any like of him, he loving hates that guy, but out of a deep seated kindness that Josuke shares in that "I just don't want anyone to die". This part is dipping into My Headcanon, but it's extremely likely that the mysterious guy saving Josuke what causes his Stand to manifest the way it did. Josuke was already in the process of trying to summon a Stand, but couldn't cause he's a little baby. Here comes this mysterious stranger saving him out of pure kindness, an important memory for Josuke to style his hair after his savior, and also what gives Crazy Diamond the kindest ability a Stand could have...healing. By essentially taking up the mantle of the stranger and his grandfather, Josuke protects his town and finds a lotta like minded friends to help him to do it. Any utterly depraved rear end in a top hat like Angelo, Kira or Engima Boy, they get an end beyond death, cause gently caress you, we don't anyone like in our cool town. Having Josuke actually be the one saved himself means that the stranger just saved Josuke to save his own rear end and that is instantly less loving cool and just boring self preservation. I can see where the idea comes from cause hey, Kira plays with a time, but Kira's power gets nowhere near approaching that far and that is the only possible instance of Araki Wanted Josuke To Go Back In Time Actually and is way more likely, Araki that that Josuke styling his hair out of his hero is really cute and cool which it is i just woke up again so im sorry for words
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Apr 16, 2016 17:22
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like, of all the things to point out as being 'araki dropping something and not resolving it' you're doing a good job of picking out one thing that was pretty tight, concise and served a point in getting josuke to have some sort of connection with his absentee father and didn't really need to be stretched out more than it was. joseph is old as gently caress, so it's not like he can manage to do much more than something of the sort. which is still risking his own life to save a drowning child. would it have been cool to get more direct interaction between the two? sure, but since he effectively can't be on the frontlines the story kind of has to move past him.
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Apr 16, 2016 17:29
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Anything that isn't <Main Jojo> punching <Main Villain> is filler.
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Apr 16, 2016 17:33
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CJ: You don't like JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. That's fine. Stop posting here.
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Apr 16, 2016 17:38
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All you had to do was read the drat manga CJGyro Zeppeli posted:Stop posting here. Dissenting voices are necessary in all fanbases, imo, though I'd rather the complaints be more meaty than someting so clearly nonsensical. Gyro Zeppeli posted:So far we have "Josuke Stops A Robbery", "Josuke Swallows A Rubber Glove" and "Koichi Gets Shot In The Neck". I don't get the Always Sunny jokes but next week is very obviously "Koichi Lays An Egg". Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 17:44
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Who is Diavolo Why does he wear the gaudy fishnet tattoo shirt Why is his hair cotton candy
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Apr 16, 2016 18:39
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Baal posted:Who is Diavolo Because it's hot Because it's cool
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Apr 16, 2016 18:49
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Baal posted:Who is Diavolo What, you don't wear any of those things?
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Apr 16, 2016 18:52
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Why does Okuyasu have those lines on his face Are they scars? Did his head get stuck in one of those ball return machines at a bowling alley?
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Apr 16, 2016 18:56
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A friend of mine who is new to JoJo's just asked me a fairly innocuous question that totally stumped me. Does Josuke have the Joestar birthmark? I don't recall it ever being shown, but he'd have to, right?
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Apr 16, 2016 19:03
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:A friend of mine who is new to JoJo's just asked me a fairly innocuous question that totally stumped me. They never showed it but it'd make sense, since the entire bloodline is meant to have it. a better question is does johnny joestar have the birthmark
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Apr 16, 2016 19:11
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Torquemadras posted:I really like Cheap Trick, because it's hilarious Jojo is contrived by design. Most shounen is, really, but Jojo wears it a little more prominently. That's fine, I'm cool with that. I dig the theatricality of it all. Of course Dio's henchmen are waiting for them at every turn in Part 3; of course out of every hotel, every no name village, every backwater backroad, they pick the one where there's some guy waiting there to get the jump on them; of course the bad guys have to introduce themselves and explain their powers and none of them thought to bring a gun (besides Hol Horse I guess and Alessi) or tried to slit their throats while they slept. That's just how it works, and I love it. I'm totally on board with Jojo's Contrived Adventure where most meaningful interactions take place within the context of dealing with a dude with weird powers in a villain of the week format. There's just something about a character's purpose being to show up and die to unleash their power that just breaks my suspension of disbelief in a way nothing else does. Cheap Trick isn't even the worst offender in this case - Notorious B.I.G. was the world's most ridiculous sleeper agent when you think about it - it's just something that rubs me the wrong way. Cheap Trick is full of hilarious moments and I'm sure most of us are fine with it and most anime watchers will be fine with it and I don't want them to be not fine with it. Just personally it's something that overshadows the whole thing for me. I can never stop thinking about how kinda dumb it is, in a series full of stuff that's technically kinda dumb but doesn't bother me otherwise.
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Apr 16, 2016 19:15
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They'll both have it but it's only really used when the Joestar identity is up for debate in a part or a more important aspect. That's why Giorno is shown to have it, to prove he's DIO's and it shows up a bunch in Stone Ocean (on Pucci/DIO's boys/Weather) and JoJolion. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 19:17
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:CJ: You don't like JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. Contrary to what you might believe, it's possible to enjoy media while also being critical of its flaws. This thread is for discussing Jojo, not a hug box where you can do nothing but praise every single detail. Just because you like a thing doesn't mean i'm attacking you personally for saying i don't like a small part of it.
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Apr 16, 2016 19:19
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CJ posted:Contrary to what you might believe, it's possible to enjoy media while also being critical of its flaws. This thread is for discussing Jojo, not a hug box where you can do nothing but praise every single detail. That's all well and good, but you're still a loving moron who hasn't expressed a single coherent point to date
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Apr 16, 2016 19:20
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Eh, I never took Cheap Trick as a "death as trigger" Stand, death of the host is the end-game there - it's just a parasitic thing, Cheap Trick is its own entity.
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Apr 16, 2016 19:21
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CJ's posts are fine, I don't wanna jump down the throats of anyone with a dissenting opinion and saying they don't Actually Like JoJo is just lovely fandom gatekeeping but jesus don't use "hugbox" come on
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Apr 16, 2016 19:23
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Ya I always thought cheap trick was an independent stand like superfly
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Apr 16, 2016 19:23
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Didn't the user say he's spent his whole life turned face front to people? I figured he developed a natural Stand out of his extreme neurosis and it wasn't so much an attack as 'Rohan kicking a hornet's nest for no good reason' as Rohan is wont to do
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Apr 16, 2016 19:28
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CJ's entitled to his opinions and entitled to sharing them, Jojo is not without flaws and pointing out those flaws is perfectly fine, but CJ you have not exactly done a stellar job defending why you think the flaws are flaws and I don't think I've ever read even a single post by you where you praised anything in Jojo except by omission, so I can't say I'm too surprised people are calling whether you actually like the series or not into question.
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Apr 16, 2016 19:28
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Cheap Trick is basically a parasite.multijoe posted:Didn't the user say he's spent his whole life turned face front to people? I figured he developed a natural Stand out of his extreme neurosis and it wasn't so much an attack as 'Rohan kicking a hornet's nest for no good reason' as Rohan is wont to do He's one of the users Kira's dad made and sends at the Gang, I think. Kinoto isn't aware of his stand though. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 19:28
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multijoe posted:That's all well and good, but you're still a loving moron who hasn't expressed a single coherent point to date I don't really see what's incoherent about "A lot of the villains of the week in part 3 lacked character, had boring resolutions and were kind of forgettable" and "the baby plot point didn't come to a resolution and was sort of forgotten about apart from a footnote at the end" but ok. As for the flashback thing, the guy who saved them looked like he had been fighting and his chest and face (the two identifying features for josuke besides his hair) were obscured in shadow. It's suspicious as gently caress and a bit of a chekov's gun, so it not going anywhere is kind of weird. no they will not posted:Ya I always thought cheap trick was an independent stand like superfly I need to reread the chapter but the impression i got from it is that the original user had passed it on at some point and it had been jumping between people until Rohan came across it.
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Apr 16, 2016 19:30
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CJ posted:Where were the baby's parents? The baby's dad is Joseph now and that's really all that matters to the story. 
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Apr 16, 2016 19:30
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'being critical of its flaws' doesn't work too well if you're being critical of something that isn't really a flaw despite all the insistence otherwise of literally the only person in existence who i've seen say that the baby part was pointless and didn't go anywhere. people would care less if it wasn't such a goddamn baffling and out of nowhere opinion. there's plenty of weird, unresolved poo poo in the series. josuke sharing a moment with his dad isn't one of them.
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Apr 16, 2016 19:32
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Dias posted:Eh, I never took Cheap Trick as a "death as trigger" Stand, death of the host is the end-game there - it's just a parasitic thing, Cheap Trick is its own entity. no they will not posted:Ya I always thought cheap trick was an independent stand like superfly multijoe posted:Didn't the user say he's spent his whole life turned face front to people? I figured he developed a natural Stand out of his extreme neurosis and it wasn't so much an attack as 'Rohan kicking a hornet's nest for no good reason' as Rohan is wont to do Josuke Higashikata posted:It's basically a parasite. I don't think anybody is wrong for liking Cheap Trick. As somebody who likes every fight in Part 3, I'm glad every fight in every part has its fans. I would never tell anybody to skip Cheap Trick, or that they're wrong for liking it. It's just something I've never fully been able to tune out.
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Apr 16, 2016 19:32
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That being said if you don't like the Part 3 fights you're bad
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Apr 16, 2016 19:34
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BaDandy posted:The baby's dad is Joseph now and that's really all that matters to the story. I guess, but some poor lady lost her baby in a park and then the Joestars just decided to keep it. If they had found out the baby was abandoned by its mother and they adopt it then fine but they just fish it out a pond then keep it.
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Apr 16, 2016 19:34
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IIRC the dude who had Cheap Trick wasn't originally a Stand User; he just didn't like to show people his back, a bit neurotically. Not even too much, because I don't really like people just standing behind me either. getting hit by the Arrow combined with his weak spirit turned his phobia into a 'power', but an independent power that didn't care about him. also in my headcannon Joseph teaches Shizuka the Ripple and if Pucci hadn't destroyed the universe she'd have gone around hunting Vampire and poo poo as the Invisible Ripple Warrior. plus the baby does come back in RPS Kid and is integral to Rohan not getting his soul stolen.
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Apr 16, 2016 19:36
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there's literally no way for them to find out who the parents are and the parents sure as hell don't know where their kid went since it straight up turned invisible. they might as well adopt the kid, being stand users who understand what's going on, instead of trying to advertise how they've found a baby that makes everything around it disappear.
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Apr 16, 2016 19:37
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Here's the page saying he got Cheap Trick when he was shot in the back with the arrow.  CJ posted:I guess, but some poor lady lost her baby in a park and then the Joestars just decided to keep it. If they had found out the baby was abandoned by its mother and they adopt it then fine but they just fish it out a pond then keep it. If she had wanted the child, it'd be reported to the police and on the news stations. There's no way on earth the Joestars wouldn't have found her had she have been wanted to be found. It's a fair assumption that between acts, like how it says the whole gang eats at Tonios on info pages, the hunt for Shizuka's mother carried on (the epilogue straight up says they never found her, which indicates they were looking so the assumption isn't really one at all). Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Apr 16, 2016 |
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Apr 16, 2016 19:38
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CJ posted:I don't really see what's incoherent about "A lot of the villains of the week in part 3 lacked character, had boring resolutions and were kind of forgettable" and "the baby plot point didn't come to a resolution and was sort of forgotten about apart from a footnote at the end" but ok. As for the flashback thing, the guy who saved them looked like he had been fighting and his chest and face (the two identifying features for josuke besides his hair) were obscured in shadow. It's suspicious as gently caress and a bit of a chekov's gun, so it not going anywhere is kind of weird. I don't think anyone would dispute some of the early SDC Stands are a little dull and underwhelming, but that doesn't make them filler. The whole arc is framed as an epic quest across the world, the fact that they fight loads of different people in different locales along the way is pretty much the point. As for DiU, I'd agree future Josuke(?) seemed like a setup for a plot point which never went anywhere, but the Achtung Baby chapter was a great chapter which had humour and worked thematically for Josuke and Joseph. Even if you didn't like it, calling it filler is just baffling.
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Apr 16, 2016 19:39
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CJ posted:As for the flashback thing, the guy who saved them looked like he had been fighting and his chest and face (the two identifying features for josuke besides his hair) were obscured in shadow. It's suspicious as gently caress and a bit of a chekov's gun, so it not going anywhere is kind of weird. The point of the flashback was it didn't matter what "Kind" of person he was, or how he'd chosen to live his life. Maybe he was a model student who got beat up. Maybe he was the one doing the beating up. Maybe he was a great guy or maybe he wasn't. His hair and clothes suggest he was probably a little rough and tumble, not someone "Respectable" by society's standards. Either way, he saw someone in need and he helped them. Josuke's earliest, most formative memory is being saved by the selflessness of a complete stranger. Subsequently, he grows up to be the kind of guy to pay things forward and helps people, and wears his hair in the same style as his hero. This goes without saying, but that nameless, faceless stranger was likely the closest thing Josuke had to a male role model in his life - there's his grandfather, sure, but I seriously doubt Josuke looked up to him in the same way he would a father figure (substitute). It doesn't matter who that guy was because he could've been anybody. What matters is Josuke learned at a very young age the importance of selflessness and helping those around you.
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Apr 16, 2016 19:40
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