|
hiddenriverninja posted:How are they going to justify calling a white woman Motoko Kusanagi Her parents were hardcore US anime otaku in the 1990s.
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 06:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 12:06 |
|
|
It's an artificial body housing her digitized cyberbrain, it can look like anything and doesn't even have to match her original biogender let alone outmoded geo-ethno-social constructs like "race". Gol y'all are bad transhumanist postsingularity technolibertarians.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 06:55
|
|
|
hiddenriverninja posted:How are they going to justify calling a white woman Motoko Kusanagi I dunno, how do you justify calling a white guy Khan Noonien Singh? They could just re-name the character to something more western since most U.S. audience members wouldn't be familiar with the source material outside of the otaku set. Since pretty much nothing is able to make die hard fans of anything happy with a movie adaptation based on their chosen obsession then their complaints can be safely ignored.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 06:59
|
|
|
yeah, all I care about is that it's got a pretty rad cast. Michael Pitt and Beat Takeshi.  dunno bout the director/writer though...
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 07:09
|
|
|
Bob Quixote posted:I dunno, how do you justify calling a white guy Khan Noonien Singh? Ricardo Montalbán wasn't a white guy. Still not fitting for a guy with a name like that, but you know. \/\/\/\/ Forgot that movie existed. void_serfer fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Apr 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 07:19
|
|
|
maybe he talking about Into Darkness
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 07:20
|
|
|
Joe Gillian posted:Ricardo Montalbán wasn't a white guy. Pictured: not a white guy 
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 07:27
|
|
|
hiddenriverninja posted:How are they going to justify calling a white woman Motoko Kusanagi Remember when an old script for the upcoming Akira live action adaptation leaked and people found out that it was going to be set in New Manhattan and Tetsuo had been turned into Travis and it was rumoured that Zac Effron would play Kaneda?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 07:31
|
|
|
Joe Gillian posted:Ricardo Montalbán wasn't a white guy. Still not fitting for a guy with a name like that, but you know. I was talking about Into Darkness actually yeah. If we are talking ethnicity though, Montalban was born in Mexico but both of his parents were immigrants to the country from Spain. Are the Spanish not white? I've never really grasped what exactly falls under the umbrella of "whiteness".
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 07:32
|
|
|
broken clock opsec posted:Pictured: not a white guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tP5tZ_ekXs
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 07:33
|
|
|
hiddenriverninja posted:How are they going to justify calling a white woman Motoko Kusanagi Ehh, I can see them just waive off the issue since Motoko's age/ethnicity/nationality/etc. in the physical sense can vary with each iteration of the character, since her physical body is just a vessel. That said, I'm not advocating the casting of white actors in asian roles, but with Ghost in the Shell, the source material is a bit more flexible.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 07:48
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:Also I'm not sure if I believe that the key to the success of Force Awakens was having a black guy. The point isn't that you need a black guy to succeed, but that having a black guy isn't going to harm your box office, so why the gently caress are you being racist with your casting? The main argument in favor of whitewashing is that "studios aren't racist, audiences are, and the studios are just catering to the audience." But poo poo like Star Wars 7 and FF 7 prove that audiences aren't actually that racist. Edit: I'm actually looking forward to ScarJo in Ghost in the Shell because she's awesome, but I completely understand why people are upset about it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 08:00
|
|
|
teagone posted:Ehh, I can see them just waive off the issue since Motoko's age/ethnicity/nationality/etc. in the physical sense can vary with each iteration of the character, since her physical body is just a vessel. That said, I'm not advocating the casting of white actors in asian roles, but with Ghost in the Shell, the source material is a bit more flexible. Yeah, in the manga her real identity is classified and makes it clear that even her original gender is unknown. Although, the TV show has an episode that reveals she has been a cyborg since she was like ten, after a plane crash, so it's heavily implied she used to be a girl.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 08:01
|
|
|
Bob Quixote posted:If we are talking ethnicity though, Montalban was born in Mexico but both of his parents were immigrants to the country from Spain. Are the Spanish not white? I've never really grasped what exactly falls under the umbrella of "whiteness". which means clearly this is the plot arc we deserve for the next punisher film adaptation  
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 08:16
|
|
|
Corek posted:But these movies DON'T make money? The Last Airbender was a horrible disappointing flop that everyone regrets but it still comes in at #5 on the list of highest (domestic) grossing Action/Martial Arts movies:  http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=martialarts.htm ... and since this genre often has Asian/PoC leads I guess the fact that Airbender made more money than the great majority of them is also somewhat telling. Rush Hour 2 is the most successful movie in the US market with an Asian lead, it's #2 in the Action/Buddy Comedy list and #125 in all time domestic. That's followed closely by Big Hero 6 at #127 but the next film in the list with an Asian lead (as far as I can tell) is the 2010 Karate Kid at #222. Slumdog Millionaire ia #334, the original Rush Hour is #335, Rush Hour 3 is #339, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon is #405, Charlie's Angels is #429, Life of Pi is #434, Mulan is #455 and The Karate Kid Part II (1986) is #499. Out of all the current All Time Domestic Box Office movies there's only 11 with a top-billed Asian actor in the entire top 500 movies and in 8 of those the Asian actor got equal billing with a non-Asian actor or was animated. So yeah, apparently this is what US audiences want from films with Asian leads: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCTzYY95Aw4 (I'm not counting Kung Fu Panda in that list because the apparently Asian lead character was voiced by a white dude, as opposed to Big Hero 6 whose Asian lead was voiced by half-Japanese dude Ryan Potter.) So after Jackie Chan (who got equal billing with Chris Tucker and Jaden Smith) the Asian lead actor with the most popular film in the US market is this guy:  .... whose supporting actors were these guys:   .... and none of them are exactly household names, especially compared to people like Lucy Liu, Michelle Yeoh or Jet Li who appeared wayyyyyyyy down the 'Highest Domestic Gross' list. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 11:15 on Apr 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 08:29
|
|
|
TheFallenEvincar posted:I mean, there's light-dark racism in a bunch of countries, right? Like "white hispanics" being prejudiced against darker skinned ones. Basically IMO if you pass enough to get white privilege, considering it's all just a cultural/societal construct whose definition (in America) was altered and expanded over the years ANYWAY, then hey you're white. If you get the white perks within whatever society you exist in, you're white, since "white" is just bullshit anyway. Is that Punisher in black face working with Luke Cage, and I need issue numbers for that.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 08:33
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:Is that Punisher in black face working with Luke Cage, and I need issue numbers for that. He got a backalley plastic surgeon to give him a new face and make him unrecognisable but apparently wasn't exactly clear in his instructions and was turned into a black dude. http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2015/06/11/remember-to-forget-that-time-the-punisher-became-a-black-guy/
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 08:38
|
|
|
Gotta avoid vagueness when it comes to plastic surgeons Now that we have TV's Luke Cage and TV's The Punisher, it's time to unite Obama's fractured America with a comic book movie story like that weird rear end Ice Cube show where they had creepy white to black/black to white transformations
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 08:43
|
|
|
TheFallenEvincar posted:I mean, there's light-dark racism in a bunch of countries, right? Like "white hispanics" being prejudiced against darker skinned ones. Basically IMO if you pass enough to get white privilege, considering it's all just a cultural/societal construct whose definition (in America) was altered and expanded over the years ANYWAY, then hey you're white. If you get the white perks within whatever society you exist in, you're white, since "white" is just bullshit anyway. This is a stupid conversation but it's silly to say that racism exists only as a visual thing. Like, ya no duh if you look white then you're gonna have an advantage and probably not get killed by a bored and/or rowdy police officer but like, especially in America racism is so deeply ingrained in our culture that if ur saying it's purely based on passing/not-passing you're ignoring the tons of ways racism has structurally destroyed/tortured so many ethnicities. (But hell, maybe I'm only saying this bcuz I'm a mixed [black & Assyrian] guy who can pass as white [well, Jewish ])
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 08:45
|
|
|
Hat Thoughts posted:This is a stupid conversation but it's silly to say that racism exists only as a visual thing. Like your eyes
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 08:53
|
|
|
TheFallenEvincar posted:, this topic is deep enough to get lost in Thank u...
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 08:54
|
|
|
hiddenriverninja posted:How are they going to justify calling a white woman Motoko Kusanagi they're going with Major only.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 10:51
|
|
|
McSpanky posted:It's an artificial body housing her digitized cyberbrain, it can look like anything and doesn't even have to match her original biogender i haven't read the manga in a while but i thought they explained her lesbianism with the idea that they link nerve connections directly and a man/woman link would be painful for both parties because the brain is trying to stimulate nerves that don't exist or something. surely this can be extrapolated to whether or not the major was originally a man
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 13:13
|
|
|
In the comics and movies (even though the 1995 one is set in Hong Kong) she's explicitly a Japanese woman and the cybernetic body she inhabits at that point is explicitly "Japanese generic female default #243" whatever so she can blend into a crowd if need be and people won't immediately suspect the massive amount of police/military grade cybernetic augmentation she has received. But even the original movie is a huge departure from the comics since it focuses on boobs and "deep" cyberpunk monologues while the comics focus on boobs, "deep" cyberpunk monologues, and lesbian orgies. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Apr 17, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 13:40
|
|
|
Bob Quixote posted:I was talking about Into Darkness actually yeah. There is more to it than skin color, people care a lot about facial features, ethnic and national background, like I always considered myself white but I've lived in places where I'd be interacting with hyper affluent white people where I wasn't considered white because of the food I like. People are bizarre. This is very very very generalized, but typically if you were from a Mediterranean country like Spain or Catholic, in the US at least there was no way you were considered white until the late 50s at the earliest no matter your skin tone. JFK becoming president in 1960 had a huge influence on this too as Catholics voted for him en masse to show solidarity. Like my parents both weren't considered white when they were young even though my mom is super pale and my dad has like the slightest olive complexion ever. A lot of this was based less on skin color and more on religious tensions and culture. And even this tension existed in the US into the 80s and even today. Even in some brief travels and discussion today, I can say that Bernie being invited to speak with the Pope will hurt him more in some states than it will help, despite the current Pope seeming like a cool guy. The breakdown of "races" we've grown up learning since the 70s and early 80s is recent, and didn't really start to take shape until the height of WWII as our governments wanted us to effectively fight together. Just a decade before that phrenology (the science of how if your skull didn't match the proportions of a WASP then you were a barbarian idiot fit only for grueling manual labor or a life of crime) was still a thing, the Zoot Suit Riots had just happened in 1943, etc. There isn't really a "white enough" point, and with Ricardo Montalban being born in 1920 I'm sure he had to deal with that at some point if not often.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 14:25
|
|
|
TheFallenEvincar posted:Gotta avoid vagueness when it comes to plastic surgeons Hahaha, what show is this? And are there any clips of the transformations?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 15:42
|
|
|
Neo Rasa posted:In the comics and movies (even though the 1995 one is set in Hong Kong) she's explicitly a Japanese woman and the cybernetic body she inhabits at that point is explicitly "Japanese generic female default #243" whatever so she can blend into a crowd if need be and people won't immediately suspect the massive amount of police/military grade cybernetic augmentation she has received. Doesn't the Major tend to do a decent amount of body hopping since she's fully cyberized and isn't actually anything more than a ghost? It would be kind of cool to see several different people playing the Major and emphasizing that her ScarJo body isn't much different than having a really nice car that you like to drive. Isn't Aramaki about the only person who doesn't refer to Kusanagi as just "Major"?
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 16:02
|
|
|
TheFallenEvincar posted:wait since when can Tony Stark (kind of) hold his own in like close combat martial arts poo poo They probably came up with the "stopping a bullet with the gauntlet" beat first and worked the rest of the scene's early action/blocking around it. They're assuming it's a cool enough moment that the audience won't care about how they got there.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 16:05
|
|
|
Gyges posted:Doesn't the Major tend to do a decent amount of body hopping since she's fully cyberized and isn't actually anything more than a ghost? It would be kind of cool to see several different people playing the Major and emphasizing that her ScarJo body isn't much different than having a really nice car that you like to drive. Of course and that would be great but they're not going to cast someone like Scarlet Johansson and then NOT have her be the most prominent person in it. As for almost everyone calling her Major, that's less a commentary on her existence and more a translation thing that's a hold.over from the time it was originally made. Like any Japanese police procedural/whatever from the 80s/early 90s is going to see people being called by their title or a nickname more than you'd see in the US. In manga and anime specifically, it's why there are so many characters where in the US version their literal proper name is Colonel or Duke. We only see them in the context of military action/etc. type situations. Not saying that you're doing this, but one of the things I see people saying often now is similar, that her Japanese name doesn't matter since people call her Major, therefore she's technically actually white since blah blah blah. Like if this were directed by peak Michael Mann or something then a detail like that could again make for interesting commentary on what regard the different human characters hold AIs in or on how dispassionate they can be (It's not coincidence that in Blade Runner the humans are all referred to by their last names, and the replicants by their first), but I'm not expectating much from this director or the production team that brought us "digital yellow face testing."
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 16:31
|
|
|
It would be kind of funny to go with the Western generality of using first names and just have everyone refer to her as Motoko, perhaps the least used of her names and aliases. Really though, the least they can do is use her name prominently enough to at least strongly hint that, being Japanese, the Scarlett Johansson skin isn't "real".
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 16:40
|
|
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Hahaha, what show is this? And are there any clips of the transformations? Somehow the only clips of it I can find online are of the theme song (kind of a mediocre Ice Cube song Imo) though...gj erasing the past Ice Cube  
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 16:52
|
|
|
TheFallenEvincar posted:It had a very imaginative name, man. "Black. White." Awards: Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Makeup - Series (Non-Prosthetic)
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 17:53
|
|
|
Gyges posted:It would be kind of funny to go with the Western generality of using first names and just have everyone refer to her as Motoko, perhaps the least used of her names and aliases. Really though, the least they can do is use her name prominently enough to at least strongly hint that, being Japanese, the Scarlett Johansson skin isn't "real". Everybody who calls Johansson by her name will inexplicably do it in a thick Texan accent so it will sound totally American while being completely unintelligible.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 21:07
|
|
|
As long as she plays the part with a heavy Japanese accent I don't see what the problem is
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:As long as she plays the part with a heavy Japanese accent I don't see what the problem is And ideally they should make her look more Japanese, possibly through CGI
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 21:37
|
|
|
Uncle Boogeyman posted:And ideally they should make her look more Japanese, possibly through CGI They can just scotch tape her eyelids. Close enough.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 22:01
|
|
|
Maybe they can hire George Lucas for help with ambiguous racist undertones
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 22:18
|
|
|
Zeris posted:Maybe they can hire George Lucas for help with ambiguous racist undertones 
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 22:39
|
|
|
Letting Ken Watanabe overdub Johansson's lines would be an acceptable compromise
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 22:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 12:06 |
|
|
TheFallenEvincar posted:drat, I'd rather hire the people behind that racist rear end James Bond movie where James Bond gets "turned into a Japanese guy". That poor Japanese man must have been only a teenager when his hometown of Hiroshima was attacked.
|
|
#
?
Apr 17, 2016 23:35
|
|
