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Guy A. Person posted:Holy crap this is something I wanted to comment on, that was great. They made Stark look like Ferris Bueller it was excellent RDJ said it actually freaked him out. Corek posted:The recent one where they become slumlords is the best one because it's in response to those people demanding a lesson. I love that episode. It's like The Big Short but for bad people.
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May 8, 2016 04:03
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Chairman Capone posted:So Iron Man isn't deranged because he sets lower standards for himself than Batman and his goals are to kill people, so it's all right. Gotcha. It's not even that. The "no kill code" is important to Batman. It is not just a product of his sense of morality, but of his trauma, the fact that his origin involves death. It is a leash he puts around his own neck. Different characters hold themselves to different standards because of where they come from. That's why fiction is so broad and it's so important to explore situations that make different statements on the issue of right and wrong. Why the same universe can house a soldier who kills in the line of duty and a God fearing Catholic who fears crossing a line.
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May 8, 2016 04:10
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The MSJ posted:
Also, tangentially, What The-!? owns. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8E0dcj1RRs
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May 8, 2016 04:20
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TFRazorsaw posted:It's not even that. The "no kill code" is important to Batman. It is not just a product of his sense of morality, but of his trauma, the fact that his origin involves death. It is a leash he puts around his own neck. Also because otherwise, the Joker would be dead in a ditch and not able to come back for another story (well in principle anyhow, it used to be that no one stayed dead in comics except Bucky. And, whelp...  ).Although Batman kills him in The Killing Joke, albeit offscreen, I think.
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May 8, 2016 04:21
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Tony looks like they teleported RDJ out from the set of Ally Mcbeal and saved him from drugs. gently caress that, he looked like they grabbed him off the set of Weird Science. It frightened me deeply.
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May 8, 2016 04:26
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TFRazorsaw posted:It's not even that. The "no kill code" is important to Batman. It is not just a product of his sense of morality, but of his trauma, the fact that his origin involves death. It is a leash he puts around his own neck. The 'kill code' *used* to be important to Batman, but between his sidekick getting possibly killed and the toll 20 years of fighting criminals in a near-revolving door system takes, it's perfectly fine to have a Batman who doesn't think much of killing bad people to even the odds. It's a shame about the Not My Bat-/Super- man crowd.
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May 8, 2016 04:35
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TFRazorsaw posted:It's not even that. The "no kill code" is important to Batman. It is not just a product of his sense of morality, but of his trauma, the fact that his origin involves death. It is a leash he puts around his own neck. Most filmic versions of Batman have actually been p. blase about wasting fools from their sweet fighter jet.
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May 8, 2016 04:39
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And as it happens, that's something I find dissatisfying about most cinematic Batmen.
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May 8, 2016 04:43
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If you want to talk about the movie though saying "that's just how I feel!" isn't a good way to go about it. That actually stops rather than furthers discussion, since nobody can argue with your feelings.
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May 8, 2016 04:50
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I've argued at length about what I think about the issue of making Batman kill so flippantly. The point I'm trying to make is that "But but this thing did the same thing!" isn't really a good defense. If a version of the character doing something meant that it was the right call for other adaptations to do that, people'd be a lot kinder to the Schumacher films.
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May 8, 2016 04:53
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I'm not sure if it's out of place for Batman to kill LexCorp minions in a movie where his goal is to, you know, kill Superman. (That's something out of character for Batman!)
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May 8, 2016 04:57
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:Batman has been killing and maiming people ever since his brain broke on or before Space 9/11,
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May 8, 2016 04:59
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What any particular version of Batman does or doesn't do doesn't really have a bearing on the film's quality. Since the sequence where Batman toasts those guys with his jet and then breaks through that window is a kickin' rad piece of filmmaking, it's a kickin' rad piece of film. The comics still exist and will continue to do so. An adaption isn't beholden to them any further than taking whatever works for it. I mean I could be really mad that they made Iron Man into a snark machine when before in the comics he's usually the serious, leaderly one but it's better to accept the movie as its own thing. The music and editing are fantastic. What follows when Batman infiltrates the building is one of the best action sequences I've seen in the movie theater since, well, I guess Man of Steel. That I think means more than "is this doing justice to the pen and ink version of Batman or the Timm cartoons or whatever. Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 05:07 on May 8, 2016 |
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May 8, 2016 05:01
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quote:I mean I could be really mad that they made Iron Man into a snark machine when before in the comics he's usually the serious, leaderly one but it's better to accept the movie as its own thing. Man, in the original Avengers comics, he and Jan are the ones cracking wise. That's totally on the money. The straight dick from Iron Man, if you will.
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May 8, 2016 05:04
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Also "it was different" (re: campy) is not why I dislike Batman & Robin (I think Batman Forever was fine but it has been 20 years since I saw it so idk). That may be why a lot of people say they dislike it but people are bad at explaining why they like or dislike something, generally. Batman & Robin is bad because only Arnold looks like he's even remotely enjoying himself and everybody else is grimacing their way towards a paycheck. If B&R had been campy but good, someone in the last 20 years would have come to its defense and we as a culture would not have needed to see Joel Schumacker publicly break down in tears before we could forgive him. Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 05:09 on May 8, 2016 |
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May 8, 2016 05:05
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I don't blame Schumacher, I blame the toy companies that had a noose around his neck. Unfortunately, his name is also the most recognized nomenclature for those particular movies.
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May 8, 2016 05:10
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I loved the scene in the original Batman when Keaton's Bruce Wayne confronts the Joker at Vickki Vale's house (I think) - where he goes loving nutso by the fireplace all yelling and screaming and Joker shoots him.
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May 8, 2016 05:23
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Keaton's amazing because at so many points he comes off like this weird big kid who never grew up and is such a Tim Burton character yet perfectly suited for Batman. Like hell, that moment where he goes "ya wanna get nuts?? LET'S GET NUTS" seems more like he's probing the Joker just to see what he'll do than trying to escape.
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May 8, 2016 05:30
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Drifter posted:The 'kill code' *used* to be important to Batman, but between his sidekick getting possibly killed and the toll 20 years of fighting criminals in a near-revolving door system takes, it's perfectly fine to have a Batman who doesn't think much of killing bad people to even the odds. It's important that the Batcave in the movie is the one from the end of Dark Knight Rises. Bruce hasn't learned a thing and loves being Batman. Robin's outfit isn't in a glass case out of respect. The man needs to make shrines to his obsessions.
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May 8, 2016 05:32
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TBH as many times as I watched Batman my strongest memory connected to it is undoubtedly this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AL1k0XoT5h0
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May 8, 2016 05:34
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Harime Nui posted:Keaton's amazing because at so many points he comes off like this weird big kid who never grew up and is such a Tim Burton character yet perfectly suited for Batman. Like hell, that moment where he goes "ya wanna get nuts?? LET'S GET NUTS" seems more like he's probing the Joker just to see what he'll do than trying to escape. That was my impression too. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's important that the Batcave in the movie is the one from the end of Dark Knight Rises. Bruce hasn't learned a thing and loves being Batman. Robin's outfit isn't in a glass case out of respect. The man needs to make shrines to his obsessions. Unless you can show me an interview with Snyder that says that I don't believe that for a second. And what's important about Bruce enjoying being Batman? I mean, duh? What would he have learned? But you're right about the obsession thing, but that's kinda of straightforward given the damage to the suit. It's there to remind him firstly about whatever happened, not so that he never forgets what a good person Dick/Jason/Tim was. Drifter fucked around with this message at 05:55 on May 8, 2016 |
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May 8, 2016 05:48
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Harime Nui posted:What any particular version of Batman does or doesn't do doesn't really have a bearing on the film's quality. Since the sequence where Batman toasts those guys with his jet and then breaks through that window is a kickin' rad piece of filmmaking, it's a kickin' rad piece of film. The comics still exist and will continue to do so. An adaption isn't beholden to them any further than taking whatever works for it. I mean I could be really mad that they made Iron Man into a snark machine when before in the comics he's usually the serious, leaderly one but it's better to accept the movie as its own thing. That fight sequence is the only the memorable fight in the whole movie.
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May 8, 2016 05:53
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Wrong thread!
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May 8, 2016 05:58
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Harime Nui posted:TBH as many times as I watched Batman my strongest memory connected to it is undoubtedly this - I find it's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIPZROBiNik I discovered Adam West Batman as a kid and that remains the greatest iteration of Batman yet. edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRStyrC4hTQ whoa Wheeee fucked around with this message at 08:43 on May 8, 2016 |
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May 8, 2016 08:39
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The MSJ posted:Saying that Tony acted irrationally is pretty much the same thing as saying he's mentally ill. No it's not. Those aren't the same things at all. What the gently caress is wrong with you?
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May 8, 2016 09:19
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There were alot of car ads before civil war follow the money
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May 8, 2016 09:49
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TFRazorsaw posted:I don't blame Schumacher, I blame the toy companies that had a noose around his neck. Unfortunately, his name is also the most recognized nomenclature for those particular movies. You really need to stop trying to use big words you don't understand.
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May 8, 2016 12:07
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I really wish people would stop saying the no-kill rule is "integral" to Batman's character when it was a late addition to him usually applied to appeal to censor boards. Even if you ignore the fact that different interpretations can do different things with the character and that's fine, you STILL can't pull the "Not my Batman!" card without being factually wrong.
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May 8, 2016 13:50
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Pirate Jet posted:you STILL can't pull the "Not my Batman!" card without being factually wrong. As I've said before, I'm pretty sure that most of the NOT MY BATMAN crowd latch onto what they feel are incongruous details (like batmurder) in an attempt to try and explain why they were unhappy with the film and they're not actually capable of articulating an objective critique because they're basing their criticism on their emotional reaction to the film. Most of the general public outside of CD base their opinions on films almost purely on their emotions so they're usually quite willing to accept plot holes and incongruous details if they liked the film, whereas they'll be hyper critical of those same elements if they disliked the film. Pointing out that the 'no kill' rule hasn't applied for decades won't change their minds because it doesn't actually address the issues they had with the film. Pointing out that Rey wasn't any more of a Mary Sue than Luke won't change people's minds about TFA. Etc etc.. If BvS ended on a less ambiguously upbeat tone and the general audience walked out thinking that Batman and Superman had been cool and awesome in the film then they wouldn't have given a flying gently caress about Batman killing Lex's goons. Many Batfans would have gone into the movie expecting an escapism action/adventure power fantasy experience and weren't prepared for a film that explored actual characters attempting to deal with the traumas associated with superheroism. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 14:16 on May 8, 2016 |
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May 8, 2016 14:07
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Caught up with my MCU movies last night as I spotted Iron Man 3 on Netflix, it was much better than I thought. No high aspirations to social or political commentary, just a silly superhero movie. How was the general reaction back then when they announced Ben Kingsley as the Mandarin? Discounting the plot twist, as "Ben Kingsley as Mandarin" was all anyone knew back then. Incidentally though, reading about it I thought the twist was dumb, but the actual film handled it really well and of course Kingsley himself stole everyone's thunder.
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May 8, 2016 14:31
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My Lovely Horse posted:Caught up with my MCU movies last night as I spotted Iron Man 3 on Netflix, it was much better than I thought. No high aspirations to social or political commentary, just a silly superhero movie. ...Isn't the A-plot of that movie about an American defense contractor inventing Al-Qaeda and sending traumatized military veterans back into American society as literal walking timebombs?
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May 8, 2016 14:54
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:As I've said before, I'm pretty sure that most of the NOT MY BATMAN crowd latch onto what they feel are incongruous details (like batmurder) in an attempt to try and explain why they were unhappy with the film and they're not actually capable of articulating an objective critique because they're basing their criticism on their emotional reaction to the film. Most of the general public outside of CD base their opinions on films almost purely on their emotions so they're usually quite willing to accept plot holes and incongruous details if they liked the film, whereas they'll be hyper critical of those same elements if they disliked the film. Pointing out that the 'no kill' rule hasn't applied for decades won't change their minds because it doesn't actually address the issues they had with the film. Pointing out that Rey wasn't any more of a Mary Sue than Luke won't change people's minds about TFA. Etc etc.. The last big Batman movie trilogy made the "No Kill rule" a big plot point. It's understandable that people would notice the difference and not like it. It's been my experience that most people when asked if they liked a movie will state their opinion and a short statement why. Not because they are incapable of articulating an objective critique but that is not what the person asking is interested in listening to or maybe they are not interested in making one. Comic book movie's aren't serious business to everyone. Didn't Dark Knight end on a downer with Batman being chased by the police and the Nolan Trilogy explore a messed up Batman? And Burton's Batman, Keaton was pretty messed up and I might be remembering it wrong but I think Batman Returns ended on a downer too.
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May 8, 2016 15:10
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Crion posted:...Isn't the A-plot of that movie about an American defense contractor inventing Al-Qaeda and sending traumatized military veterans back into American society as literal walking timebombs? Seriously, IM3 is just about the most thematically significant film in the MCU so far.
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May 8, 2016 15:26
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Winter Solider probably has the most concise statement about the problems with American foreign policy in the 21st Century. Snowglobe of Doom posted:Many Batfans would have gone into the movie expecting an escapism action/adventure power fantasy experience and weren't prepared for a film that explored actual characters attempting to deal with the traumas associated with superheroism.
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May 8, 2016 15:26
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Timeless Appeal posted:But there's this weird rear end dichotomy that either the audience wants to be challenged or it wants and escapist power fantasy, and that's silly. Yeah I may have been speaking a bit too broadly there. I'll amend it to say that that the general audience members who weren't happy with BvS probably wouldn't have minded being challenged just as long as they also got their escapist power fantasy. As axelord pointed out, the Nolan films pretty much did that.
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May 8, 2016 15:37
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Timeless Appeal posted:Winter Solider probably has the most concise statement about the problems with American foreign policy in the 21st Century. Uhhh explain.
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May 8, 2016 15:40
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Oh god some idiot on twitter is saying "NOT MY SPIDER-MAN" because he swore.
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May 8, 2016 15:44
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Uhhh explain. It turns out the CIA are Nazis. Just like in the real world.
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May 8, 2016 15:44
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axelord posted:The last big Batman movie trilogy made the "No Kill rule" a big plot point. It's understandable that people would notice the difference and not like it. *growly growl* "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you."   Goddamn, that was almost as bad as the MARTHA!, Martha? crap in BvS. The ending of the Dark Knight was kinda goofy. Back when I watched it I didn't really understand why he was running away aside from Harvey Dent being dead. Like, just blame Joker who gives a poo poo? Drifter fucked around with this message at 15:48 on May 8, 2016 |
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May 8, 2016 15:45
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MonsieurChoc posted:It turns out the CIA are Nazis. And just like in the real world, when CIA operatives were outed as Nazis they quietly disappeared into new lives instead of being brought to account for their actions. Yes, I'm saying Nick Fury is Klaus Barbie.
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May 8, 2016 16:04
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