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Now I remember that font. (Or basically any sci-fi cover from that era.)
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# ? May 26, 2016 17:57 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 14:26 |
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Kairo posted:It is all hand-crafted now. This is due to the combat sandbox really needing it. The RNG would basically give me mediocre encounters 80% of the time, terrible encounters 15% of the time, and great encounters 5% of the time (and this was probably by accident). Infinite encounter varieties are neat, but only if you can guarantee it's gonna be awesome a majority of the time. Im curious, how did you select for your testers? Are you sure they represented your core audience's preferences vis a vis the warping around thingy?
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# ? May 26, 2016 18:01 |
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NmareBfly posted:
Yeah the wave clear is coming (it broke as I was working on this new stuff and I haven't had time to fix it back up). But the system-wide thing sounds better in theory than it actually ended up being. Have you ever played DotA? Keeping track of the minimap while you're being asked to do complex combat tasks is BRUTAL. Now add another minimap on top of that minimap and imagine how much more brutal that would be. I think the stalky, hunty system game is still a neat idea but it would be much better served as something that's not ALSO a cockpit sim and not ALSO an RTS-lite. Hell, I would make that game completely run from the radar screen to do it justice, sort of like http://objectsgame.com/
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# ? May 26, 2016 18:01 |
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So in a way is this coming back to the pre-planned mission design of the original prototype? Is this more like Rainbow Six in space again? That was also a really cool concept.
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# ? May 26, 2016 18:08 |
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Friendly Humour posted:Im curious, how did you select for your testers? Are you sure they represented your core audience's preferences vis a vis the warping around thingy? Friends, family, colleagues. They are pretty hardcore PC and console gamers so they do represent my core audience (and me) pretty well. Quite a few play games like Elite but many don't. They do play the poo poo out of stuff like Souls, Destiny, DotA, League, XCOM, etc. It's not like they are my grandmother.
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# ? May 26, 2016 18:12 |
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Kairo posted:Friends, family, colleagues. Are you saying Granny Kairo wouldn't appreciate a fine space sim? In that case shame on you.
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# ? May 26, 2016 18:19 |
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Just Offscreen posted:Are you saying Granny Kairo wouldn't appreciate a fine space sim? In that case shame on you. LOL Maybe it's just because I came from console development, but I've noticed a weirdly high amount of defensiveness about complexity with space stuff. Like assumptions that other people are just dumb when the design is actually just bad. Makes me sad, man. (Not saying this is what you were getting at Friendly Humour)
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# ? May 26, 2016 18:26 |
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Kairo posted:Friends, family, colleagues. Cool! And it wasn't! I was just curious.
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# ? May 26, 2016 18:36 |
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Actual postin' time;
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# ? May 26, 2016 18:36 |
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Kairo posted:It is all hand-crafted now. This is due to the combat sandbox really needing it. The RNG would basically give me mediocre encounters 80% of the time, terrible encounters 15% of the time, and great encounters 5% of the time (and this was probably by accident). Infinite encounter varieties are neat, but only if you can guarantee it's gonna be awesome a majority of the time. I played a lot of the roguelike version when it had multiple simulated star systems with patrols moving around (NDA breach Kairo drones CIRCLING MY HOUSE) and yeah, unfortunately this was...really the case. You could get amazing pitched fights over a target, and running battles fleeing from a superior force. But like combat in EVE Online it was mostly downtime: long runs to supply points, trivial chore-fights like clearing guards at gates. Because your fleet losses were persistent, you spent a lot of time micromanaging your warships and exploiting the AI so they wouldn't get themselves blown up. And there was even currency farming, you could disable carriers and endlessly farm fighter spawns. The handcrafted campaign missions are all good fights. There's zero downtime, once you fail you just restart instantly, so you get into a wonderful flow state. Missions are exactly the right size to play over and over again, without losing a lot of progress if you die at the end.
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# ? May 26, 2016 18:36 |
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Yeah I'm not really interested in scripted encounters. It sounds like the change worked out fine, so that's good
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# ? May 26, 2016 18:52 |
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My hype levels for a new and good space combat game are still through the fuckin' roof
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# ? May 26, 2016 18:55 |
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I am even more hyped now that it's obvious it won't be like first person space Diablo. Tight single player experiences are hard to come by nowadays and I have serious sandbox fatigue.
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# ? May 26, 2016 18:58 |
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I'm not sorry I did this.quote:There is a house among the spacelanes
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# ? May 26, 2016 18:58 |
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SilentW posted:I'm not sorry I did this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eZqRmUMRIg
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# ? May 26, 2016 18:59 |
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Yay June! to the roguelike / randomization element being ditched. That's a huge loss.
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:17 |
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Yeah, its just the number of them that I am worried about. 14 missions doesnt sound like much (maybe thats more than 14 fights, which is what just saying 14 missions sounds like) so I kinda wish there was something deeper than wave clear that I could do endlessly. Will there be a mission maker/more missions released after launch? Thats the thing that gave Freespace and X-Wing longevity.
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:19 |
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Well I'm disappointed to hear about the change, but so long as the core gameplay is fun I'm excited to see how things turn out.
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:20 |
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Everything said changes wise sounds good. I'll be ecstatic if you're basically giving me Homeworld TIE-Fighter, with the hint of more once this is out of the door. I don't need my every game to be an infinite content engine, and having a story plus lovingly crafted missions appeals to me as much as having a sandbox.
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:23 |
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Kairo posted:It's not quite linear. The overworld opens up a bit as you go, but it is dropping you off into premade, heavily designed encounters. So kind of like Star Fox 64?
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:23 |
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HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:Yeah, its just the number of them that I am worried about. 14 missions doesnt sound like much (maybe thats more than 14 fights, which is what just saying 14 missions sounds like) so I kinda wish there was something deeper than wave clear that I could do endlessly. I can't really look it up at work, but didn't Freespace 2 have not much more than a dozen and a bit missions? Granted you mention the map maker but still.
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:28 |
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Ciaphas posted:I can't really look it up at work, but didn't Freespace 2 have not much more than a dozen and a bit missions? Granted you mention the map maker but still. 35 if you do the SOC loop missions. There's probably about 15 or so really well done missions, quite a few alright ones and like 2 which are mostly plot poo poo
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:31 |
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Ciaphas posted:I can't really look it up at work, but didn't Freespace 2 have not much more than a dozen and a bit missions? Granted you mention the map maker but still. It had 35 missions, actually. efb I can see why people are not happy about the change. Procedurally generated missions, especially with the enemy units prowling around was a big part of the appeal for me. Still cool the game's coming out. Terminally Bored fucked around with this message at 19:34 on May 26, 2016 |
# ? May 26, 2016 19:31 |
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A bunch of FS2 missions are just kind of experiencing a space thing, interspersed pretty evenly throughout the campaign.
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:32 |
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Bolow posted:35 if you do the SOC loop missions. There's probably about 15 or so really well done missions, quite a few alright ones and like 2 which are mostly plot poo poo I must admit when I think of Freespace 2 missions, I think more of Bearbaiting and the SoC arc, and less the traitor hunting and nebular exploring.
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:34 |
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Kairo posted:It is all hand-crafted now. This is due to the combat sandbox really needing it. The RNG would basically give me mediocre encounters 80% of the time, terrible encounters 15% of the time, and great encounters 5% of the time (and this was probably by accident). Infinite encounter varieties are neat, but only if you can guarantee it's gonna be awesome a majority of the time. I gotta say, the latest DOOM has illustrated really well how much level design and encounter design matter. That game just flows so much better than any game I've played in ages. And by that I mean that a fixed campaign honestly sounds better than a RNG driven system.
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:36 |
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Here's hoping this turns out a lot better than that OTHER goon space game.
Skoll fucked around with this message at 19:40 on May 26, 2016 |
# ? May 26, 2016 19:37 |
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Players who only do some of the bonus objectives are probably gonna finish it in 2-3 hours on easy. Medium and hard are considerably longer, but are more fun. It's like playing Halo on Legendary, or Hotline Miami fights. I'm not committing to anything after 1.0 launch (mission editor, more encounters), even though that stuff sounds neat. If it makes financial sense to keep adding stuff, I'm in, but it also might be a better use of my time to start porting or even move on to something else.
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:39 |
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Oh 35? Dang a lot of them must have been pretty fuckin' unmemorable. Far as HotDS goes my attention span seems to decline every other month, and I've always been more of a themepark than a sandbox dude, so a short directed experience like HotDS is turning into suits me just fine Looking forward to committing the cardinal sin of buying into early access
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:42 |
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All the "Everything is procedurally generated! It's a roguelike in space!" stuff coming from a one man dev was a little too good to be true... so it's sort of encouraging to hear the scope has been narrowed and made tighter. Make a ton of money from Dying Sun and execute the original vision in Dying Sun 2?
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:44 |
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Antti posted:All the "Everything is procedurally generated! It's a roguelike in space!" stuff coming from a one man dev was a little too good to be true... so it's sort of encouraging to hear the scope has been narrowed and made tighter. I'd also pay good money for a DLC that adds a roguelike mode. Doesn't have to be perfect, but the randomized maps were a big selling point for me.
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:46 |
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Antti posted:All the "Everything is procedurally generated! It's a roguelike in space!" stuff coming from a one man dev was a little too good to be true... so it's sort of encouraging to hear the scope has been narrowed and made tighter. I mean, it sounds like it was working, but just flawed, and I can understand why - the tester's experience above reminded me heavily of X3, and X3 only really works because of the huge economic sim it has going in the background to replace all the ships you lost (and even then it's a loving pain to get automation of replacing your losses going, especially without mods).
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:47 |
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Terminally Bored posted:I can see why people are not happy about the change. Procedurally generated missions, especially with the enemy units prowling around was a big part of the appeal for me. Still cool the game's coming out. Otherwise known as "why you don't take other people's money too soon in development"
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:47 |
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dupersaurus posted:Otherwise known as "why you don't take other people's money too soon in development" Kairo lied Proceduralgenerationinenemystarfighternowhouseofthedyingsun died
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:49 |
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Yeah, I'd actually not mind just buying the older build with it in, warts and all for a bit extra. I like infinite content, regardless of its quality if the basic mechanics are good. Fighting the same battles gets boring if you're not of the speedrun/challenge following sort. I'll probably beat the campaign once on medium and never touch it again.
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:49 |
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dupersaurus posted:Otherwise known as "why you don't take other people's money too soon in development" This. A thousand times. With all the changes, I can TOTALLY understand people being disappointed, but having not taken any money, I don't feel bad at all. Films also go through this process at the end all the time. They are long, boring, random, weird messes that you never see. Games are weird because we have to show so much up front.
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:51 |
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Kairo posted:Players who only do some of the bonus objectives are probably gonna finish it in 2-3 hours on easy. Medium and hard are considerably longer, but are more fun. It's like playing Halo on Legendary, or Hotline Miami fights. As paradox proves, if you make quality DLC for a single player game, people will keep buying it for years. Granted, sounds like Paradox games have much more playtime in them to keep customers occupied while they work on their DLC, than HotDS...
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:55 |
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this makes me pretty pleased to hear it's more about replaying it on ramping up difficulty and it changes the game. those are always my most memorable games. I've realized bloated open-world games really turn me off especially when it just feels empty or boring most of the time (see Dragon's Dogma). I'm very excited and I've been yelling at friends about this game for months!
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:55 |
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dupersaurus posted:Otherwise known as "why you don't take other people's money too soon in development" Absolutely. I understand why it got cut and why Kairo doesn't want to promise anything. Just saying the RNG feature sounded (and looked from the streams) really really cool. Like playing a constantly evolving board game with your little space fighter inside it. Ciaphas posted:Oh 35? Dang a lot of them must have been pretty fuckin' unmemorable. Hahaha. Yeah. If there's one thing FS2 is known for it's having unmemorable missions.
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# ? May 26, 2016 19:57 |
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# ? May 28, 2024 14:26 |
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FS2's missions are almost all really good for the time. The basic game mechanics are nearly flawless and the writing's superb. Speaking of, I've been playing FS2 and TIE Fighter for oh god 17 years and Enemy Starfighter's flight model is fun as hell and an absolute joy to tool around in.
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# ? May 26, 2016 20:02 |