|
Salamander For burning me all the times he did.
|
# ? Jun 19, 2016 08:17 |
|
|
# ? Jun 5, 2024 09:30 |
|
Patrick Seitz voices the Master Bird, for the record. I don't know about the Japanese version. Oh yeah, Salamander, I guess. He's been left as a dangling plot thread for far too long. Arcade Rabbit fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Jun 19, 2016 |
# ? Jun 19, 2016 13:42 |
|
Arcade Rabbit posted:Patrick Seitz voices the Master Bird, for the record. I don't know about the Japanese version. This just reminded me that tackling Salamander now may not be the best idea because you're required to kill it for a sidequest later, and killing Salamander now would add some unnecessary downtime in waiting for it to respawn. Though I'm not sure if said quest forcibly causes it to respawn though.
|
# ? Jun 19, 2016 14:43 |
|
I've only played the demo of this one and know only what I've seen in LPs but I'll toss in a vote for Wyvern. This also gives me a chance to say thank you for a fantastic LP - it's down to a combination of this and Dr Fetus' Etrian Odyssey LPs that pushed me into taking the leap into following up on the curiosity Persona Q left me with for these games. Never actually finished PQ (I am way too easily distracted) but I enjoy the gameplay style and these LPs made the transition to EO games proper (at least 3 and 4) a little less scary. So thank you both for that and I'll be continuing to follow any future EO LPs because I'm a sucker for this narrative style and for getting such a clear idea of what makes these games tick.
|
# ? Jun 19, 2016 17:25 |
|
Dr. Fetus posted:This just reminded me that tackling Salamander now may not be the best idea because you're required to kill it for a sidequest later, and killing Salamander now would add some unnecessary downtime in waiting for it to respawn. Though I'm not sure if said quest forcibly causes it to respawn though. If my memory serves me, said quest does not cause it to respawn. But to be clear, you're required to get it's regular drop, not kill it, so you could just kill it and not sell it until you get that quest.
|
# ? Jun 19, 2016 18:36 |
|
Efe is correct. The ancient blade, a 29F quest, requires that you bring a specific NPC one Flame Marrow, Salamander's normal drop. Anyway, voting's closed. Results: quote:Salamander: 6 And so that's the order we'll do these things! Salamander's overview and voting will be up shortly. Rea fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Jun 19, 2016 |
# ? Jun 19, 2016 19:04 |
|
Pre-Update 55: Salamander pre-fight overview Salamander HP: 23000, STR: 60, TEC: 55, VIT: 50, AGI: 41, LUC: 55 Skills:
100% 100% 100% 0% 150% 100% Disable resistances: 0% 50% 25% 25% 50% 75% 25% 0% 0% 10% 50% 25% 25% A giant creature that wears flame itself as armor! It seeks to incinerate its foes. Salamander is certainly a fight. Firstly, remember the Baby Salamanders from all the way back in the middle of the 2nd Stratum? Salamander will summon one every 3 turns. By this point, their damage is irrelevant, but that's not why they're dangerous. Baby Salamanders are dangerous in this fight for two reasons: firstly, Harsh Cry (50% defense debuff, 70% base head bind chance). More importantly, though, if you kill a Baby Salamander, Salamander will retaliate with Infernal Rounds. As you can see over there, Inferno Rounds is all but a guaranteed game over that not even Fire Wall will save you from. She will do this for every single Salamander that's killed on a given turn, incidentally. Avarice Claw already hurts quite a bit on its own, but the fear and poison propel it into dangerous territory. Salamander's 60 STR means that even the back row hit (effectively 80% damage) will still hurt a lot, possibly enough to one-shot some of our squishier party members. Crushing Tail, mercifully, has a -19 base accuracy penalty, meaning it'll miss a lot more than most other skills, but you still shouldn't count on that to save you, since any amount of hits above 3 can potentially leave your party in a bad state. Hellfire Breath almost necessitates Fire Wall. 55 TEC plus 400% damage is death for almost any class, and even Ursa's Bikini Armor still puts her at extreme risk of dying. With that out of the way, onto the characters. Firstly, though: Forced Sophie: I am going to get conditionals as soon as they're available from here on out, and for Salamander, that means taking Sophie along for Evil Eye. Each type of bind is also useful in the Salamander fight. Damage dealers Zack: Zack can do quite a bit with Ice Chaser, but the issue is that he'll need at least Stardust and Jackie accompanying him, with preferably Rheine in the mix too. Freyja: Since Sophie is being forced, Freyja has the potential to deal yuuuuuuge damage, but that would involve some slight RNG luck on my end. Stardust: 150% Ice resistance plus compressed Frost Jars equals bye-bye Salamander. Asriel: If Phoebe is voted in instead of Ursa, Asriel is pretty much going to always be at near-death. Aside from that, he's still a somewhat-consistent damage dealer, even if his numbers aren't that impressive. Jackie: Jackie won't deal quite the same ridiculous damage that Stardust can, but she can still put out significant hurt. Sophie being in and, therefore, most likely inflicting some evasion-disabling ailment/bind on Salamander means that we won't have to worry about Jackie missing. Tyler: Tyler can hit Salamander's Ice weakness with Spear Assist while he waits for Delayed/Cross Charge. He really doesn't do a lot else. Ranger: Believe it or not, Ranger's actually a sub-optimal choice for Salamander, mostly because of the drat Baby Salamanders. They'll eat Ice Wave hits, and it's not out of the realm of possibility that Ranger will accidentally trigger Infernal Rounds because of that. Defense Phoebe: Phoebe can nullify Hellfire Breath for most of the party (I say "most" because it will trigger on Flame Breath from Baby Salamanders), and reduce the damage of front-row Avarice Claw and Crushing Tail hits. Ursa: Ursa can't really do anything about Hellfire Breath or Infernal Rounds, but she's honestly slightly better for dealing with Avarice Claw and Crushing Tail, especially if Realga is constantly buffing her max HP. Support Nadia: Nadia can try blinding one of the Baby Salamanders to set up Hazy Arrow, I suppose. She can't really do a ton to Salamander herself, aside from Hazy Arrow, since Sophie will be taking care of disables on that front. Realga: If Ursa's in the party, Realga will be absolutely invaluable with all the damage that Salamander throws around. Hell, an Overheal + Desperation Ursa can probably tank one cast of Hellfire Breath. Milly: Milly's sole job is, was, and always will be to buff everyone's damage to ludicrous levels. With a level 20 Frost Fantasia, she could turn Salamander's 150% Ice weakness into a 190% Ice Weakness. Colette: Given that Salamander's conditional requires killing her while she has fear on, Colette dealing good damage with Ailing Slash isn't out of the question. Fairy Robe's also a decent "I need whatever Avarice Claw inflicted off right now" panic button. Rheine: White Noble can purge off Harsh Cry's defense debuff, and Link Order means Rheine can contribute quite a bit to damaging Salamander. Vote for a maximum of four party members, at least one from each category. Rea fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jun 19, 2016 |
# ? Jun 19, 2016 20:09 |
|
Colette, Phoebe, Freyja, Milly. If we're gonna be using ailments anyway, might as well get the most out of it.
|
# ? Jun 19, 2016 20:20 |
|
Stardust, Jackie, Phoebe, Milly
|
# ? Jun 19, 2016 20:29 |
|
Stardust, Phoebe, Milly, Realga
|
# ? Jun 19, 2016 20:31 |
|
Colette, Freyja, Stardust, Phoebe
|
# ? Jun 19, 2016 20:41 |
|
Colette, Phoebe, Stardust, Rheine
|
# ? Jun 19, 2016 20:52 |
|
Efe posted:Colette, Phoebe, Freyja, Milly. If we're gonna be using ailments anyway, might as well get the most out of it.
|
# ? Jun 19, 2016 21:01 |
|
Current results:quote:Phoebe: 6 Anyone not listed has no votes.
|
# ? Jun 19, 2016 22:01 |
|
Colette, Tyler, Ursa, Asriel.
|
# ? Jun 19, 2016 22:30 |
|
Zack, Jackie, Phoebe, Milly.
|
# ? Jun 19, 2016 23:04 |
|
Stardust, Phoebe, Freyja, Colette
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 00:53 |
|
Jackie, Phoebe, Milly, Colette
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 01:04 |
|
Efe posted:Colette, Phoebe, Freyja, Milly. If we're gonna be using ailments anyway, might as well get the most out of it. This works. Also wait, the Leukocyte's White Plasma and the Red Corpuscle's Red Plasma use the arms? What arms? Also also if you hadn't said the Core Irae shrinking was a glitch, I would've thought it was meant to happen, beyond being sudden, it doesn't look all that weird or out of place. Casting HP Up though...that's a lot weirder.
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 01:14 |
|
Efe posted:Colette, Phoebe, Freyja, Milly. If we're gonna be using ailments anyway, might as well get the most out of it.
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 04:31 |
|
I'll close out the votes now.quote:Phoebe: 11 Anyone not listed has no votes. This leaves us with a party of Phoebe, Freyja, Colette, Sophie, and Milly.
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 04:34 |
|
Impromptu vote! So I'm buying everyone's ultimate armor as soon as I can--I'm not going to be persuaded otherwise, since postgame bosses don't care what armor you have a lot of the time. The question is, are ultimate weapons fair game as soon as they come up? For example, for the next fight, I could buy Freyja the Queen's Whip, or I could just limit her to the Ninetails until we kill the Storm Emperor again, at which point I'd upgrade her to a Volt Whip.
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 04:48 |
|
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD (yes buy all the ultimate weapons)
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 04:57 |
|
This is seriously a vote? You're in the post-game, which is when those weapons are meant to be used and when you'll typically have the money to buy them at that point. So uh, buy them, I guess.
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 05:00 |
|
Dr. Fetus posted:This is seriously a vote? You're in the post-game, which is when those weapons are meant to be used and when you'll typically have the money to buy them at that point. So uh, buy them, I guess. I dunno, I have a pretty narrow and weird view of what's overpowered relative to where I am in the game, so I just wanted to make sure people didn't think I was being cheap.
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 05:01 |
|
Do it.
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 05:07 |
|
What would Shia LaBeouf do?
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 05:48 |
|
Needless to say, buy those things and destroy your enemies.
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 05:50 |
Activate Murder.exe
|
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 05:57 |
|
I think I can pretty safely gauge opinions based on that. Ultimate weapons ASAP it is, then! Salamander took 5 turns to kill, which could've easily been 3 or 4 had luck been more on my side. Unfortunately, there won't be any video, because I forgot to set Dxtory to record line-in audio and then saved over the pre-update save before I stopped recording. Bah.
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 05:58 |
|
Update 55: Slashed Lizard A'ight, who's ready to go take care of that giant lizard back in the 2nd Stratum? Not me. I've wanted to taste this thing forever... I appreciate any opportunity to return to active exploration. I...would've liked a longer break. Oh well... This is the Salamander party. It is pretty much explicitly built to take advantage of Sophie's plethora of disables, and turn it into big damage. Also, by unanimous vote in the thread, I am buying ultimate weapons as soon as they become available. I had already decided that I'd do the same for ultimate armors. Here, Freyja is basically fully decked-out: ultimate whip, ultimate armor, ultimate non-body armor. Colette has her ultimate armor and ultimate non-body armor, and Sophie has the Cursed Amulet that I got before the Yggdrasil Core. Gimme gimme gimme! Unfortunately, because I am an idiot of the highest caliber, I forgot to enable audio recording while recording Salamander, and then saved over the save at the end because I got careless. Quick refresher on Salamander's stats: quote:
Phoebe has nothing else to do on the opening turn. As always, I have Freyja focus on the bind that Salamander is less resistant to. I considered enabling War Edge Power, but I have faith in Sophie being able to inflict panic on Salamander. Standard Milly setup. I opt for panic here to give Colette some turns of boosted Ailing Slash damage, and ensure that Salamander doesn't do anything too dangerous. Mmm... It tastes like an already cooked steak! Perhaps I should have brought some of that sauce that Ranger is concocting. Oh wow that is a lot of damage for a level 20 Gag. Jesus. That is how much Colette is doing with a level 20 Ailing Slash that is being boosted, for the record. Freyja switches to Cuffs now. I have Milly use Volt Prelude on Colette, since she's the one outputting the most damage right now. Bleh. I should probably start putting more levels into the binding Curses by this point. Nothing much I can do for a level 20 Cuffs, though. Hoo man, that's a big increase. This is the last turn of Creeping Curse, so I have Sophie cast Evil Eye to ensure that I get the conditional. Really?! Ow ow, hot hot hot! Tried to bite its tail? Yes... It should have occurred to me that the Baby Salamanders were, well, the children of Salamander... I dunno, in case Salamander doesn't seize up and casts Hellfire Breath. We haven't even casted Ecstasy once, and yet look at this. Milly's run out of things to do, really. These arms are too large... These legs aren't big enough! I already ate through most of them... Oh, gently caress it. It's only one bind, but given the Gag/Cuffs damage, do I really care? Whoop, never mind, it's two binds now. OH MY GOD. Every time I see that, it just gets more impressive. Mind if I ask you how you do that, Freyja? I-it... I honestly don't know... It's n-natural. The power of, well, powerful weapons. Jesus H. Christ. And the stuff I got from Salamander's drops. Laevateinn (+174 ATK, +2 TEC, normal attacks become Cut+Fire) is unlocked by selling 1 Flame Marrow. I buy one for Colette, since while it gives inferior stats to the Alondite (+2 TEC compared to +3 all stats), it gives considerably more ATK. Agneyastra (+201 ATK, +10 Force gain, +25 TP) is made from 1 Flame Breath. I don't like the Force gain boost, but the TP's nice. Agnea is technically better than Agneyastra by +3 ATK, but there's some instances where the Force gain might be useful, and TP is nice. I dunno. I buy Jackie an Agneyastra immediately, in any case. Next time: Wyvern, because the "what to do next" second place was a tie, and I feel like doing Wyvern.
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 07:07 |
|
Pre-Update 56: Wyvern pre-fight overview Wyvern HP: 33000, STR: 80, TEC: 58, VIT: 55, AGI: 55, LUC: 49 Skills:
100% 100% 100% 50% 125% 0% Disable resistances: 25% 50% 50% 25% 50% 50% 25% 0% 0% 10% 50% 25% 25% One of the ancient wyrms, who soars high in the sky, scorching the land below in blinding light. Wyvern is a pretty big joke. She'd be threatening if she had access to actual all-party attacks, but as is, she can really only target one to three people, and usually only one might die. Not helping her is the fact that binding her arms shuts off her deadliest attack (Wing Talon), along with her method of ensuring that Tail Strike hits. If you bind her head as well, she basically can't do anything at all. Honestly, there's not a lot else to say about her, so onto the party members, with one caveat: Forced Nadia: I'm getting the Paralyzed Wing, and there's nothing you can do to stop me. Hazy Arrow is, unfortunately, probably not going to show up that much, but Nadia has other options for dealing okay damage. Damage dealers Zack: Chasers, requires other party members for setup, you surely get the deal by now. Freyja: Freyja has less inherent value here than in the Salamander fight, where Sophie was forced, but I'm sure you'll agree she's still a decent option after that last showing. Stardust: Elemental weakness, Frost Jars, the Attack Item Up food, again, you probably get the deal by now. Asriel: Asriel is an even worse option than normal solely because Wyvern has tons of attacks that can one-shot even durable classes. What hope does Asriel have? Jackie: Paralysis disables evasion, meaning Jackie won't have to worry about missing. Aside from that and the fact that she still deals somewhat-reliable elemental damage, Supreme Bolt can also buy me a free turn if I really feel like it. Tyler: Spear Assist, Delayed/Cross Charge, I'm really having issues coming up with new things to say about this combo. What I can say about Tyler himself is that his damage actually suffers from how uncommon new spears are, meaning that he deals even lower damage than normal for now. The Wyvern Spear (which I'll have to make multiple attempts at Wyvern to get) will help. Ranger: Wanna see Wyvern just get evaporated, probably like the Yggdrasil Core? Ranger's your man. Defense Phoebe: Front Guard unfortunately can't really save anyone from Wing Talon, meaning Phoebe's best contribution is spamming Volt Wall to stop potential Burning Rays. Ursa: Ursa's main use is dying to high-damage attacks so other people won't. Hopefully Deadly Resolve can save her from that, and she can probably survive Burning Ray if she has Desperation on, or has Realga backing her up. Support Realga: Realga's main use is making Ursa really tanky, even in the face of Burning Ray. Probably can't save her from Wing Talon, but not much really can, honestly. Milly: Milly still enables really big damage numbers, although she works better with elemental damage sources, so she can take advantage of the Fantasias. Sophie: Binds completely shut down Wyvern, and Sophie's our best option for inflicting those. She won't have much to do after inflicting them, but that doesn't matter a ton. Black Mist can extend paralysis's duration by one, even though she won't be inflicting it. Colette: Yet again, given that Wyvern is going to have an ailment by the end of the fight, Colette can help contribute decent damage with Ailing Slash. Rheine: Buffs and Link Order are Rheine's main job. Dauntless Order will finally get some real use here, however, since most of Wyvern's attacks are single-target insta-kill skills, which Dauntless Order has a high chance of basically negating (70% at 10, 80% at 20). Vote for a max of 4 characters, at least one from each category, and a max of two votes for the same character.
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 07:07 |
|
Ranger, Ursa, Sophie, Colette.
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 07:16 |
|
Rheine, Jackie, Ursa, Realga
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 07:24 |
|
That was some impressive dunkage, it has to be said! Always fun seeing how big those numbers can get. And for the vote, I'll go with: Stardust, Ursa, Colette, Rheine
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 07:26 |
|
Well, that was certainly something.Kemix posted:Ranger, Ursa, Sophie, Colette.
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 07:27 |
|
That Salamander didn't stand a chance. Also, I'm hoping I'm not the only one who tried to set up Fire Wall against an attack called Burning Ray only to find out it deals Volt damage. I really need to pay attention to the damage indicators. Anyway, Rheine, Colette, Ursa, Ranger.
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 07:33 |
Stardust, Rheine, Colette, Ursa
|
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 07:37 |
|
Tyler, Stardust, Rheine, skipping the vote on the tank Let's skip using Ranger for a bit and keep him in reserve for the really annoying poo poo, shall we? ( I'M LOOKING AT YOU FROLIC ) E: the remake still has frolic right? Omobono fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jun 20, 2016 |
# ? Jun 20, 2016 07:40 |
|
|
# ? Jun 5, 2024 09:30 |
|
Whatever combination of characters will allow you to continue to reduce the post game to a shuddering, crying mess Also, been a while since I read the original LP but, didn't the "ultimate" weapons suck in the original EO2?
|
# ? Jun 20, 2016 09:20 |