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gently caress You And Diebold posted:I have a socialist alternative friend who this whole time has said he doesn't support Bernie himself (problematic foreign policy, working within the capitalist system only legitimizes it further etc) but rather Bernie's ability to serve as the platform for a message about economic inequality. He also called Hillary Satan within the first 10 minutes of us meeting for the first time The acid test is Biden. If he likes the guy to the right of Hillary and the guy to the left of Hillary but thinks Hillary herself is satan ... Well let's just say his objection isn't based on politics in any way, shape, or form.
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Jun 19, 2016 17:12
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Stultus Maximus posted:What, no love for Victoria Woodhull? I was still choosing to draw a line between the very-occasionally electable third parties and those parties which have had no impact whatsoever. That said maybe Lenora Fulani gets a nod for being on 50 state ballots.
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Jun 19, 2016 17:18
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Here's a comparison of the amount of money both nominees have spent so far on ads in battleground states. No they didn't forget to include Trump's numbers, there literally aren't any.
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Jun 19, 2016 17:20
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Here's a comparison of the amount of money both nominees have spent so far on ads in battleground states. I like that Trump genuinely planned to ride the whole 'the media gives him free advertising!' thing through the entire election too it seems.
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Jun 19, 2016 17:24
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showbiz_liz posted:When America was founded, each Representative was on average responsible for 30,000 people. Now it's well over 700,000 people per Representative. We've made major changes to a lot of the things that were designed around small populations though. And honestly much more of what it was designed around is it taking extremely long times to communicate information - which means many of those things while obsolete, don't really get in the way.
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Jun 19, 2016 17:28
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Grognan posted:You guys sure like to talk a lot about what berniebros are and stuff. Things berniebros told me about Bernie were frequently directly contradicted by Bernie's record. The bros made it very obvious that they were projecting what they wanted onto Bernie rather than dealing with what was there and as such couldn't help but be disappointed with the actual man. Hillary supporters are the opposite, quite willing to believe she isn't perfect and thus primed to accept minor criticisms and negative framings that aren't accurate while only rejecting the major ones. For us deep dive research frequently shows that the truth is far better than the attack frames. So we grow to like her more as we learn more about her.
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Jun 19, 2016 17:29
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Nitrousoxide posted:Brexit? More like Texit! My favorite thing about this is they seem to think that all those federal jobs, NASA, and military bases/equipment are just going to stay there and be part of Texas instead of getting immediately pulled out and relocated the second they decided to secede. 5 years tops and they'd be loving begging to get back in to get away from the warlords that would carve the place up. Shimrra Jamaane posted:Here's a comparison of the amount of money both nominees have spent so far on ads in battleground states. Someone tell me how this is reason I need to arzy. What have you got for me CelestialScribe?
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Jun 19, 2016 17:38
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fknlo posted:My favorite thing about this is they seem to think that all those federal jobs, NASA, and military bases/equipment are just going to stay there and be part of Texas instead of getting immediately pulled out and relocated the second they decided to secede. 5 years tops and they'd be loving begging to get back in to get away from the warlords that would carve the place up. Remember the beginning of Rocky IV? Drago just sandbagged and held off on unleashing on Apollo until commanded to do so, but then was totally overwhelming? 
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Jun 19, 2016 17:42
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fknlo posted:Someone tell me how this is reason I need to arzy. What have you got for me CelestialScribe? He's saving up money for the last two weeks before the election!  He'll overwhelm the airways with his yuuuge war chest and convince everyone to vote for him!
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Jun 19, 2016 17:46
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McAlister posted:Hillary supporters are the opposite, quite willing to believe she isn't perfect and thus primed to accept minor criticisms and negative framings that aren't accurate while only rejecting the major ones. For us deep dive research frequently shows that the truth is far better than the attack frames. So we grow to like her more as we learn more about her. You are delusional if you think Hillbots are not as bad as Berniebros.
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Jun 19, 2016 17:47
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McAlister posted:Things berniebros told me about Bernie were frequently directly contradicted by Bernie's record. The bros made it very obvious that they were projecting what they wanted onto Bernie rather than dealing with what was there and as such couldn't help but be disappointed with the actual man. The foolish Bernie bros I've fought with in cesspools like Youtube and Reddit (I get bored and have a sick addiction to arguing with morons, okay?) have attacked Clinton supporters as unwilling to admit Clinton has flaws, but I haven't actually noticed any of those type of people, anywhere. Every Clinton supporter I've encountered is cognizant of her flaws and willing to admit she's not perfect, while it's actually the Sanders supporters that idealize their candidate, and have a "Bernie can't fail, he can only be failed" attitude.
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Jun 19, 2016 17:47
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Xanderkish posted:He's saving up money for the last two weeks before the election! I'll vote for him if his running mate is Ivanka.
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Jun 19, 2016 17:48
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Xanderkish posted:He's saving up money for the last two weeks before the election! The latest Slate.com Arzy argument (arzygument? help make it stop) is that FOX NEWS will SWAMP THE AIRWAVES ("The network exerts more power over the electorate than you might think.") etc, etc. Even they aren't able to keep a straight face, though, and the entire last few paragraphs is the authors throwing up their hands and saying "gosh predictions just aren't possible in THIS CRAZY ELECTION (stay tuned for all the latest updates!!  )"
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Jun 19, 2016 17:53
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McAlister posted:Things berniebros told me about Bernie were frequently directly contradicted by Bernie's record. The bros made it very obvious that they were projecting what they wanted onto Bernie rather than dealing with what was there and as such couldn't help but be disappointed with the actual man. This is really, really absurd, and I'm saying this as someone who volunteered for Hillary back in 2008 and voted for her this year. Projecting what you want onto a candidate is literally just a thing that low information (and probably plenty of high information) voters do. Political campaigns rely on it. It is not a unique characteristic of Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump. You guys really need to chill out with this stuff, especially if you want to keep accusing those other people of ignoring political reality.
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Jun 19, 2016 17:55
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Maoist Pussy posted:Is that all it takes to be a Trot? Daydreaming about the United States voluntarily dissolving itself into a Charlie Manson bong-rip collective? Mods please change my name to "Charlie Manson bong-rip collection"
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Jun 19, 2016 18:01
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Trump reportedly has 30 people in his staff. 30 for the entire country. The Clinton staff is probably numbering in the hundreds by now. Trump seems to be relying on the RNC doing all the heavy lifting, you know, those guys who hate him and who he hates. If the presidential end of the campaign machine doesn't have GOTV, or doesn't even exist, that's gonna hurt downticket too. But don't worry, George W. Bush is coming to the downballot's rescue. I'm not convinced his favourability isn't up to 50 simply because people have forgotten, and he's about to remind them.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:13
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McAlister posted:The acid test is Biden. If he likes the guy to the right of Hillary and the guy to the left of Hillary but thinks Hillary herself is satan ... Well let's just say his objection isn't based on politics in any way, shape, or form.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:15
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Antti posted:Trump reportedly has 30 people in his staff. 30 for the entire country. The Clinton staff is probably numbering in the hundreds by now. Trump seems to be relying on the RNC doing all the heavy lifting, you know, those guys who hate him and who he hates. His favorability is above 50 because a lot of the GOP would rather have 9/11 than Trump pumpinglemma posted:Wait, I thought Biden was left of Hillary? At the very least he hasn't taken seven figures worth of "speaking fees" from Wall Street, which is my biggest issue with her. (Not still backing Bernie, obviously, just not a fan of Hillary.) Biden is right of Obama/Clinton, although still considerably to the left of anybody the GOP has put forward in the last decade. Biden is like Bernie in that he's only ever really been a Senator his whole career, so actually isn't worth all that much because nobody really cares about Senate wonks. Expect his list of suitors and speaking fees to go up once he is Ex-VP Biden Also it turns out that Clinton was a less valuable speaker in terms of $$$ = influence than not only Trump ($1.5 mil per speech, but HE'S NOT BOUGHT), but also Larry the loving Cable Guy Epic High Five fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 18:16
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quote =/= edit
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Jun 19, 2016 18:20
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Spatula City posted:The foolish Bernie bros I've fought with in cesspools like Youtube and Reddit (I get bored and have a sick addiction to arguing with morons, okay?) god forbid we do something meaningful and relevant with our time...
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Jun 19, 2016 18:21
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pumpinglemma posted:Wait, I thought Biden was left of Hillary? At the very least he hasn't taken seven figures worth of "speaking fees" from Wall Street, which is my biggest issue with her. (Not still backing Bernie, obviously, just not a fan of Hillary.) I still love that people who make most of their money from public speaking being paid speaking fees is a conspiracy.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:24
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Ogmius815 posted:I still love that people who make most of their money from public speaking being paid speaking fees is a conspiracy. Larry the Cable Guy should release his transcripts.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:26
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Epic High Five posted:Also it turns out that Clinton was a less valuable speaker in terms of $$$ = influence than not only Trump ($1.5 mil per speech, but HE'S NOT BOUGHT), but also Larry the loving Cable Guy
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Jun 19, 2016 18:28
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pumpinglemma posted:Wait, I thought Biden was left of Hillary? At the very least he hasn't taken seven figures worth of "speaking fees" from Wall Street, which is my biggest issue with her. (Not still backing Bernie, obviously, just not a fan of Hillary.) Joe "The Senator From Citibank" Biden?
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Jun 19, 2016 18:28
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pumpinglemma posted:Wait, I thought Biden was left of Hillary? At the very least he hasn't taken seven figures worth of "speaking fees" from Wall Street, which is my biggest issue with her. (Not still backing Bernie, obviously, just not a fan of Hillary.) This is why it's important to look at voting records and position papers rather than headlines.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:29
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pumpinglemma posted:Wait, I thought Biden was left of Hillary? At the very least he hasn't taken seven figures worth of "speaking fees" from Wall Street, which is my biggest issue with her. (Not still backing Bernie, obviously, just not a fan of Hillary.) Funny you mention Wall Street, because that's the central instance I've always heard of Biden being to the right of her. Biden was the former Senator from Delaware, the state full of corporate headquarters because of its tax laws. Biden's been hella tight with the banking industry, particularly credit cards, and he authored and supported legislation that made bankruptcy more difficult. His son works for his largest donor, a branch of Bank of America. Biden's always been tight with banking, it's just that nobody cares because VP doesn't do anything.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:29
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pumpinglemma posted:Wait, I thought Biden was left of Hillary? At the very least he hasn't taken seven figures worth of "speaking fees" from Wall Street, which is my biggest issue with her. (Not still backing Bernie, obviously, just not a fan of Hillary.) You know that putting speaking fees in quotes doesn't magically turn "give an important/interesting person some money so they come talk at you and you, too, feel important/interesting" into a sinister conspiracy, right? HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 18:29
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pumpinglemma posted:Is there evidence that she was earning similar money from other speaking appearances, and that banking and investment firms represented only a small part of her total speaking income? If so then I get a lot less worried. Yes. $675k from Goldman Sachs... out of $22m in speaking fees
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Jun 19, 2016 18:31
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pumpinglemma posted:Wait, I thought Biden was left of Hillary? At the very least he hasn't taken seven figures worth of "speaking fees" from Wall Street, which is my biggest issue with her. (Not still backing Bernie, obviously, just not a fan of Hillary.) Biden's actual policy positions are probably somewhat to the right of even what I would consider to be mainstream Democratic positions. In a less polarized political environment with a less insane GOP he'd probably have significant crossover appeal, which is why it's always kind of amusing to see people who are ostensibly leftists take the Onion version of Joe Biden as reality.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:31
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Precambrian posted:Funny you mention Wall Street, because that's the central instance I've always heard of Biden being to the right of her. Biden was the former Senator from Delaware, the state full of corporate headquarters because of its tax laws. Biden's been hella tight with the banking industry, particularly credit cards, and he authored and supported legislation that made bankruptcy more difficult. His son works for his largest donor, a branch of Bank of America. Biden's always been tight with banking, it's just that nobody cares because VP doesn't do anything. He's also way more of a drug warrior than Clinton. Just because he has some funny headlines in the Onion doesn't mean he's actually a good guy.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:32
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Sharing in part because of the deliciousness of the title: The Republican's Big Hot MessThe New York Times posted:IN normal times, a party’s leaders and comers grovel for roles in the convention and prime time on its stage. Four luscious scoops, indeed. I suggest everyone read the article to get a load of what a steaming hot mess Trump is dumping on the Republicans.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:34
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pumpinglemma posted:Is there evidence that she was earning similar money from other speaking appearances, and that banking and investment firms represented only a small part of her total speaking income? If so then I get a lot less worried. http://www.businessinsider.com/here-are-all-the-six-figure-speaking-fees-that-hillary-clinton-received-after-leaving-the-state-dept-2015-5 Company Amount Date Location 2 Biotechnology Industry Organization $335,000 6/25/2014 San Diego, Calif. 3 Qualcomm Incorporated $335,000 10/14/2014 San Diego, Calif. 4 Cisco $325,000 8/28/2014 Las Vegas, Nev. 5 eBay Inc. $315,000 3/11/2015 San Jose, Calif. 6 Nexenta Systems, Inc. $300,000 8/28/2014 San Francisco, Calif. 7 GTCR $280,000 6/26/2014 Chicago, Ill. 8 The Vancouver Board of Trade $275,500 3/5/2014 Vancouver, Canada 9 Board of Trade of Metropolitan Montreal $275,000 3/18/2014 Montreal, Canada 10 Canada 2020 $275,500 10/6/2014 Ottawa, Canada 11 Cardiovascular Research Foundation $275,000 9/15/2014 Washington, D.C. 12 Massachusetts Conference For Women $265,500 12/4/2014 Boston, Mass. 13 Let's Talk Entertainment Inc. $265,000 4/10/2014 San Jose, Calif. 14 Let's Talk Entertainment Inc. $265,000 6/2/2014 Denver, Colo. 15 Advanced Medical Technology Association $265,000 10/8/2014 Chicago, Ill. 16 tinePublic Inc. (co-sponsored with the Winnipeg Chamber of Commerce) $262,500 1/21/2015 Winnipeg, Canada 17 tinePublic Inc. (co-sponsored with the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce) $262,500 1/21/2015 Saskatoon, Canada 18 A&E Television Networks $280,000 2/27/2014 New York, N.Y. 19 American Camping Association, New York Section $260,000 3/19/2015 Atlantic City, N.J. 20 Deutsche Bank AG $260,000 10/7/2014 New York, N.Y. 21 Drug Chemical and Associated Technologies $250,000 3/13/2014 New York, N.Y. 22 World Affairs Council-Oregon $250,500 4/8/2014 Portland, Ore. 23 National Automobile Dealers Association $225,500 1/27/2014 New Orleans, La. 24 Premier Health Alliance $225,500 1/27/2014 Miami, Fla. 25 Salesforce.com $225,500 2/6/2014 Las Vegas, Nev. 26 Healthcare Information Management and Systems Society $225,500 2/26/2014 Orlando, Fla. 27 tinePublic Inc. $225,500 3/6/2014 Calgary, Canada 28 Pharmaceutical Care Management Association $225,500 3/13/2014 Orlando, Fla. 29 Xerox Corporation $225,000 3/18/2014 New York, N.Y. 30 Academic Partnerships $225,500 3/24/2014 Dallas, Texas 31 Marketo, Inc. $225,500 4/8/2014 San Francisco, Calif. 32 Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries $225,500 4/10/2014 Las Vegas, Nev. 33 National Council for Behavioral Healthcare $225,500 5/6/2014 Washington, D.C. 34 International Dairy-Deli-Bakery Association $225,500 6/2/2014 Denver, Colo. 35 United Fresh Produce Association $225,000 6/10/2014 Chicago, Ill. 36 Council of Insurance Agents and Brokers $225,500 10/13/2014 Colorado Springs, Colo. 37 Salesforce.com $225,500 10/14/2014 San Francisco, Calif. 38 Commercial Real Estate Women Network (CREW Network) $225,500 10/2/2014 Miami Beach, Fla. 39 Corning Incorporated $225,500 7/29/2014 Corning, N.Y. 40 Robbins Geller Rudman & Dowd LLP $225,500 9/4/2014 San Diego, Calif. 41 GE $225,500 1/6/2014 Boca Raton, Fla. 42 Ameriprise $225,500 7/26/2014 Boston, Mass. 43 Knewton, Inc. $225,500 7/22/2014 San Francisco, Calif. 44 Watermark's Silicon Valley Conference for Women $225,500 2/24/2015 Santa Clara, Calif. 45 Association of Corporate Counsel Southern California $222,500 3/4/2014 Los Angeles, Calif. 46 Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce $150,000 1/22/2015 Whistler, Canada 47 Innovation Arts and Entertainment $150,000 6/25/2014 San Francisco, Calif. 48 tinePublic Inc. $150,000 6/16/2014 Toronto, Canada 49 Innovation Arts and Entertainment $150,000 6/20/2014 Austin, Texas 50 Novo Nordisk $125,000 2/17/2014 Mexico City, Mexico 51 California Medical Association $100,000 4/11/2014 San Diego, Calif. (via satellite) 52 tinePublic Inc. (cosponsored with the Edmonoton Chamber of Commerce) $100,000 6/18/2014 Edmonton, Canada Honestly she's more likely to favor Tech companies than big banks lol.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:34
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Paradoxish posted:Biden's actual policy positions are probably somewhat to the right of even what I would consider to be mainstream Democratic positions. In a less polarized political environment with a less insane GOP he'd probably have significant crossover appeal, which is why it's always kind of amusing to see people who are ostensibly leftists take the Onion version of Joe Biden as reality. There's almost certainly more of a policy difference between Biden and Clinton than Clinton and Sanders, if you look at things like platforms and voting records.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:35
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Wow she must be popular in Canada based on that client list lolpumpinglemma posted:Is there evidence that she was earning similar money from other speaking appearances, and that banking and investment firms represented only a small part of her total speaking income? If so then I get a lot less worried. Well the firm that manages hired speakers and represents her has a minimum fee of $200k, which is what she was often paid for her speeches to banks and finance, so at the very least she'd certainly hold them in so special favor, especially since only like 3% of her income from speeches came from the banking/finance sector. The numbers are really big, but getting a speaker with a lot of stuff after their name is a huge recruitment tool for people that make a lot of money, so the market has sort of scaled upward. Hell, getting Ken Burns to give a commencement speech cost at least 50 grand, and he ain't exactly Taylor Swift Epic High Five fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jun 19, 2016 |
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Jun 19, 2016 18:38
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Epic High Five posted:Well the firm that manages hired speakers and represents her has a minimum fee of $200k, which is what she was often paid for her speeches to banks and finance, so at the very least she'd certainly hold them in so special favor, especially since only like 3% of her income from speeches came from the banking/finance sector. Seriously.. look at this list it's amazing. https://www.allamericanspeakers.com/searchfee.php?fee=6
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Jun 19, 2016 18:39
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Mr Hootington posted:You are delusional if you think Hillbots are not as bad as Berniebros. /Shrug Guess I'm delusional. But it's obvious that if you hype someone as perfect then you will be disappointed by reality while if you hype someone as Literally Satan then the reality can only be good news. No human being is as good as the best hype or as bad as the worst. Bernie and Hillary could be literal clones of each other and this phenomena would still occur simply due to one exceeding expectations and the other failing to meet expectations.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:39
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pumpinglemma posted:Is there evidence that she was earning similar money from other speaking appearances, and that banking and investment firms represented only a small part of her total speaking income? If so then I get a lot less worried. Clinton is in the pocket of Big Camping.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:41
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Dexo posted:Seriously.. look at this list it's amazing. Amanda Arlauskas Amanda Arlauskas was the third finalist for season eight of The Biggest Loser. Fee Range: $200,000 and above; 
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Jun 19, 2016 18:42
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Antti posted:There's almost certainly more of a policy difference between Biden and Clinton than Clinton and Sanders, if you look at things like platforms and voting records. There is. Like off the top of my head Sanders and Clinton agreed something like 93-96% of the time both on platform and voting records and I would bet money she would only be in the high 80% at most with Biden.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:46
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Paradoxish posted:Biden's actual policy positions are probably somewhat to the right of even what I would consider to be mainstream Democratic positions. In a less polarized political environment with a less insane GOP he'd probably have significant crossover appeal, which is why it's always kind of amusing to see people who are ostensibly leftists take the Onion version of Joe Biden as reality. I could definitely see Biden having evolved from where he was 8 years ago. He seems like a genuinely good guy who wants to do the best for people as individuals and can be persuaded to change his mind based on that.
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Jun 19, 2016 18:49
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