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Jun 20, 2016 23:05
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CelticPredator posted:Emmrich tried to do something like that with Stonewall, but I heard it was lovely and pretty offensive? Someone let me know what the deal was with that thing Here's what wikipedia had to say Wikipedia posted:Critical reception for Stonewall has been negative. On review aggregator website Rotten Tomatoes, the film holds a 9% rating based on 57 reviews, with an average rating of 3.6/10. The site's consensus states: "As an ordinary coming-of-age drama, Stonewall is merely dull and scattered—but as an attempt to depict a pivotal moment in American history, it's offensively bad."[11] Metacritic reports that, out of 26 critics, the film has a 30 out of 100 rating, indicating "generally unfavorable reviews".[12] Writing for Vanity Fair, Richard Lawson described the film as "maddeningly, stultifyingly bungled", the script as "alarmingly clunky" and featuring "production design that makes late 1960s Christopher Street look like Sesame Street". Lawson faults the director for taking "one of the most politically charged periods of the last century" and making it into "a bland, facile coming-of-age story", and says that the role of Marsha P. Johnson was "played as comic relief, flatly". According to Lawson, the treatment of Johnson is part of a wider lack of respect for non-white and "non-butch" characters in the movie; he believes they are treated with "only a minimal, pat-on-the-head kind of attention", showing the riots through a "white, bizarrely heteronormative lens".[13] Something I read about the movie best described it as a film that is meant to pander and comfort straight white people, not actually tell the story of Stonewall in a meaningful way.
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Jun 20, 2016 23:07
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Jack Gladney posted:Didn't Roland say that the military wouldn't help with the first one because he wouldn't remove references to Area 51, or did 14-year-old me fall for marketing hooey? I'm not sure if he actually said that. But on one hand I could believe it because the government was really dumb about Groom Lake at one point. I might be getting details wrong, but from what I remember it wasn't publicly acknowledged until employees there tried to sue for damages from a chemical spill that, because it officially didn't exist even when it was so widely known in pop culture, the government refused to cover medical costs for since that would require acknowledging details of where it happened. Even after the suit was filed the government tried to stonewall a federal court about it for a while I think, but they ended up losing and having to pay. On the other hand, though, the Air Force loved working with Stargate SG-1, and Area 51 was a big part of that. Edit: I did have some of the details off, including that the employees didn't actually win the suit, but basically yeah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_51#Environmental_lawsuit Idran fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jun 20, 2016 |
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Jun 20, 2016 23:34
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Jsor posted:Paging Infamous Sphere, Ok! Well, I'll try my best off the top of my head and with a little googling. So in terms of notable positive stuff? You've got Shakespeare's sonnets to the fair lord, which were most of them. Apparently many of the writings of Christopher Marlowe were quite queer. Novels I've read include Better Angel by Forman Brown, which was published under a pseudonym in 1933. It's not a particularly interesting novel by modern standards but it's a relatively benign and not at all tragic or condemning story of some dude realising he's gay and ending up dating someone. There's also Maurice by E.M Forster, which was written in 1913 and published in 1971, primarily because it was far too explicitly gay and too positive for the time. From what I've read of Forster's work, it's my favourite of his novels. In A Room With A View he's too detached to the subject, it's all very mannered and fussy, whereas in Maurice you can tell he actually cares and has personal investment in the character's happiness. I haven't read any Herman Mellville but apparently there's some very friendly homoeroticism in several of his books - Ishmael and Queequeg in Moby Dick and more explicitly in Billy Budd, although that doesn't end so positively. The Price Of Salt by Patricia Highsmith (adapted as Carol by Todd Haynes) is one of the first lesbian novels to not end with the characters going insane/straight. I'm not up on my musical theatre or even my regular theatre. Televisionwise, Matt Baume has a couple of videos on queer depictions on mainstream tv in the 1970s. TV and theatre wise I recently saw an article about this queer televised play from the 50s. I can point to early queer representation in cinema but some of it's rather depressing, like Different From The Others (which is a gay film from 1918!!!) where the main character ends up killing himself because his reputation is ruined by an evil blackmailer. If I try and avoid the depressing (but sympathetic) stuff like 1961's Victim, which starred a (closeted) gay actor playing a gay character and was the first English-language film to use the word "homosexual", that leaves us with coded movies like Winter Kept Us Warm, which was so secretly gay that not even the actors knew they were in a gay film. 1971's Sunday Bloody Sunday is notable for being a film about a polyamorous relationship featuring a bi guy, where nothing terrible happens and there aren't any moral judgments about their sexuality. Considering that positive bi male characters are thin on the ground even today, it's especially worth watching. (Most bi male characters in film and TV, of which there are very few, are more-or-less Bret Easton Ellis style psychopaths.) Side note about Sunday Bloody Sunday? I have *no* idea why it's called that, since it came out before the Bloody Sunday massacre in Ireland - and apparently in footage of the massacre/in the movie about it, you can see posters for Sunday Bloody Sunday in the background because it was still screening. What the hell!? Ok that's all I can think of at the moment. Sorry, I'm not really up on my theatre - not my wheelhouse. Explicitly queer opera seems quite recent (although homoerotic themes in opera have been there pretty much since it was invented) but it's something you might not have even thought about, like Patience and Sarah, which is a lesbian opera. There's also a Brokeback mountain opera, and a Harvey Milk opera. Yes. Really. CelticPredator posted:Emmrich tried to do something like that with Stonewall, but I heard it was lovely and pretty offensive? Someone let me know what the deal was with that thing Ooh boy, Stonewall! I haven't seen it yet, but the general outcry is to do with the fact that it whitewashed the events of history. The riot was started by hispanic and black drag queens and trans women, who were many of the patrons of the bar - but the movie makes it seem like it's all the brainchild of some generic wholesome white gay guy, and the more effeminate and racially diverse characters are sidelined. That said, I haven't seen Stonewall yet - I'm intending to see it tonight with a friend, so I'll be able to get back to you on just how specifically bad it is. Now's the time to admit that I've never seen an Emmerich movie, but going on what I know about his filmography, he seems like a bit of a puzzle. One - he's German and yet he makes aggressively American films. Is it because he has a fascination with Americana, or does he just do it because he knows it will sell? Two - he's openly gay, and is probably one of the few openly gay directors who doesn't make queer-related content. Well, until Stonewall that is.
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Jun 20, 2016 23:52
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I'd like to hear your thoughts! You should also take a look at a random Emmrich movie for posterity. I did forget he had that "gay panic" scene in ID4.
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Jun 21, 2016 00:11
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All this talk of queer representation in movies reminded me of one of Kyle's earliest videos, on Shortbus - the NSFW-as-heck romantic/sexual dramedy by the guy who directed Hedwig and the Angry Inch. Have you considered tackling it yourself, I-Sphere?
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Jun 21, 2016 00:12
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Infamous Sphere posted:
The protag of Stonewall was scripted intentionally to be "straight acting" and that wasn't so they could do a character finally makes a commitment and stop holding back thing. He also throws the first stone (well brick) and shouts "gay power!" which flicks the on switch for the riot. And regards to your chat about gay characters, I find the early parts of Oscar Wilde's The Picture of Dorian Gray (1890), where Dorian Gray meets his lovely and very attractive friends Basil and Lord Whotton to be very homoerotic, and its largely positive at the start. Dorian doesn't start doing really awful things until later. But it is a horror (sort of) and a tragedy and so doesn't really end well. Just like the life of the author come to think of it. Also Infamous Sphere you might be interested in these two films about Oscar Wilde made in 1960, before homosexuality was legal in the UK. I've seen one but I'm not sure which, I think it was the Trials of Oscar Wilde, it depicted Oscar as a normal homosexual man, whose eccentricity was the product of his creative work and who brought about his own downfall by fighting back against his persecution. Also the Marquess of Queensbury is a moustache twirling villain, as well as a major prick, at one point I'm pretty sure I remember him shaking his fist in rage. Fake edit: I googled, and I'm sure the one I saw was the Trials of Oscar Wilde, since the other film (just called Oscar Wilde) is on youtube and its in black and white. CelticPredator posted:I'd like to hear your thoughts! You should also take a look at a random Emmrich movie for posterity. I did forget he had that "gay panic" scene in ID4. I did as well, in fact I forgot that character entirely. But I do remember he had a graphic male on male prison rape scene in one of his earlier works Moon 44, though IMDB says he didn't have anything to do with the script, but it does mean he okayed filming the scene and keeping it in the edit. That was in 1990 however so I don't know if he was out at the time or if any resistance on his part would've worked. But it does mean he has a track record for questionable homosexuality depictions in his films. Though it does appear that he's improving slightly each time. Baka-nin fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 00:25
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CelticPredator posted:I'd like to hear your thoughts! You should also take a look at a random Emmrich movie for posterity. I did forget he had that "gay panic" scene in ID4. I'm not sure I want to watch a random Emmerich film, although I should probably give Independence Day a go since that seems to be the most well-received and well-liked of all of his movies. Apparently there's a weird gay character in Anonymous? Gertrude Perkins posted:All this talk of queer representation in movies reminded me of one of Kyle's earliest videos, on Shortbus - the NSFW-as-heck romantic/sexual dramedy by the guy who directed Hedwig and the Angry Inch. Have you considered tackling it yourself, I-Sphere? I'd definitely consider covering it! I'm fine with watching relatively explicit movies - I've even thought about reviewing some notable porn movies, but decided against it because porn movies don't tend to have a lot of..plot. Like Boys in the Sand is a notable porn movie in the history of queer porn, but it's also just dudes loving without a plot so I think I can skip it. Again, with most of the things that people ask me about reviewing, I just haven't gotten around to it  Baka-nin posted:
Ooh, thanks for the recommendation! I knew about Dorian Grey and some of the other homoerotic stuff in gothic novels, but I didn't think I'd mention it because it's not really that positive. I watched the Stephen Fry Oscar Wilde movie back before I had a show. For a while, "It's all your fault, Bosie" became a catchphrase between a friend and I. We made an etching with "It's all your fault, Bosie" written on it - which requires effort because almost any form of printmedia requires you to write backwards. It's an alright movie, pretty solid! Jude Law is a good Bosie in that he's pretty, insolent and makes you want to kick him into the sun.
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Jun 21, 2016 00:59
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Yeah Dorian Gray's a stretch but from memory the most homoerotic stuff, the detailed descriptions about how perfect and attractive one man finds another man were in the beginning before Dorian goes twisted and evil. The tragedy of it is that Dorian seems to be a genuinely kind and caring man who eventually gets twisted into a callous and selfish one. Now that I think about the novel's about a man whose aware of male beauty and wishes his real self could be an idealised image of himself instead, and he hides this self image in a room that's shut off from the world, and he starts breaking the hearts of women because he can't love them and in desperation hangs out with prostitutes, dives and opium dens, and is consumed with self loathing because he can't live up to the idealised image of himself, which itself becomes twisted and ugly to the eye. And his confused relations with another man Basil causes his own downfall. And the whole thing was written by Oscar Wilde, almost prophetic.
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Jun 21, 2016 01:21
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Porno from when books were still pretty expensive usually had some gay stuff and characters because you had to provide as big a variety as possible to make your money back, but that's stretching it pretty far.
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Jun 21, 2016 01:43
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Jack Gladney posted:Porno from when books were still pretty expensive usually had some gay stuff and characters because you had to provide as big a variety as possible to make your money back, but that's stretching it pretty far. If Porn or "erotic adventure stories" count then there was a very active market for lesbian pornobooks in fifties America. Most (well all really) were just for pervy men but apparently some of the books were credited as being a positive outlet for American lesbians and queers from the period. Katherine Forest actually collected a number and republished them in a collection with a brief introduction about the whole phenomena. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lesbian-Pu...an+pulp+fiction It's worth checking out, but it is still a collection of book porn.
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Jun 21, 2016 01:57
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CelticPredator posted:I'd like to hear your thoughts! You should also take a look at a random Emmrich movie for posterity. I did forget he had that "gay panic" scene in ID4. Well. Tonight I watched Roland Emmerich's Stonewall. Holy poo poo it was bad, and bad in ways I hadn't predicted at all. I predicted some of the more generic points, like how the main character was going to be kicked out of his home through [generic homophobic family plot], but there were several things I hadn't anticipated. The film's shot horribly - the colour grading is incredibly aggressive, to the point where it's hard to tell what ethnicity people are since they all look like yellow creatures from a Mervyn Peake book. It's also very homophobic in a weird way. Almost every gay character except for our Generic Whiteboy Main Character is portrayed negatively, often in ways that don't make sense. The first queer person we see in the entire movie who isn't Generic Whiteboy, looks EXACTLY like someone out of the first panel of this Jack Chick comic. I'm going to be really brief here, because I want to cover this in more depth in a video, but it's so odd, poorly constructed, badly filmed and bizarre. It was constantly reminding me of far better movies. It's like a very bad version of Pride. It's like if you tried to make Milk but you were severely concussed at the time. There's several very uncomfortable elements that are shoehorned in as well - there's an acknowledgement that many young queer people were involved in sex work, but it's handled so poorly and grossly that I would have almost preferred it if they'd just pretended that it never happened. There's a scene where the main character is kidnapped by Evil Ron Perlman and forced into sex slavery for a hot minute, only to be rescued before he has to do anything. It would have been very easy to establish why Generic Whiteboy felt like he had to do the sex work - he borrowed money off Evil Ron Perlman, or he was very drugged, or Evil Ron Perlman threatened him with violence or *something*, but it's literally just ERP grabs him off the street and puts him in a room with an evil old man playing opera. I wouldn't be surprised if this movie had been secretly directed by Jack Chick.
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Jun 21, 2016 13:38
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mRJmcuC-8Y It has arrived. One of the rioting was for Dangerous Men I have seen Dangerous Men. It is truly WTF. PassTheRemote fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Jun 21, 2016 |
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Jun 21, 2016 14:59
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wins.
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Was there rioting for Pocket Ninjas, too?
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Jun 21, 2016 15:32
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Spark That Bled posted:Was there rioting for Pocket Ninjas, too? Yes
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Jun 21, 2016 15:35
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PassTheRemote posted:I have seen Dangerous Men. It is truly WTF.
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Jun 21, 2016 19:07
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PassTheRemote posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mRJmcuC-8Y Too bad we didn't get to see Rich yearn for that Juicy Shaq Meat by watching Steel.
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Jun 21, 2016 20:26
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PassTheRemote posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mRJmcuC-8Y This should be of interest to Miss Wallace. Pocket Ninjas made them destroy a beer glass and a table. Movies like Dangerous Men and Pocket Ninjas make you wish these movies were made now so we'd have director's commentaries and behind-the-scenes special features.
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Jun 21, 2016 21:57
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MrSlam posted:What about a Princess Peach game that behaves more like a 4X long term strategy? You have to manage the toadstool lords that reside over your provinces, appease the immigrant goomba population, and make diplomatic decisions with surrounding Koopa Kid controlled territories. BigRed0427 posted:One of those insanely complicated Middle Ages 4x games probably has a mod like that. Wasn't there a Zelda mod for one somewhere?   Sadly tentative, though.
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Jun 21, 2016 23:12
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Leal posted:Too bad we didn't get to see Rich yearn for that Juicy Shaq Meat by watching Steel. The skit where he threw it off the cliff cracked me right up.
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Jun 22, 2016 00:57
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Slightly disappointed Rich didn't just pull out Kazaam.
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Jun 22, 2016 01:25
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Please tell me RLM is gonna do a run of the shirt Rich was wearing in the latest episode.
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Jun 22, 2016 01:41
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Speaking of RLM, has there been any mention of Space Cop by digital download? I'd like to see the movie, but shipping to Canada is dumb-assidly stupidly expensive for some reason.
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Jun 22, 2016 05:06
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lornekates posted:Speaking of RLM, has there been any mention of Space Cop by digital download? It's on their VHX store: https://redlettermedia.vhx.tv/
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Jun 22, 2016 05:43
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Baka-nin posted:If Porn or "erotic adventure stories" count then there was a very active market for lesbian pornobooks in fifties America. Most (well all really) were just for pervy men but apparently some of the books were credited as being a positive outlet for American lesbians and queers from the period. Katherine Forest actually collected a number and republished them in a collection with a brief introduction about the whole phenomena. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lesbian-Pu...an+pulp+fiction And bought! You say that like it's a bad thing though.
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Jun 22, 2016 06:41
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Drunken Duck posted:And bought! While not directly related this is really interesting: https://thefpl.us/also-made/irregular-1 The Fplus crew interviews kindle porn authors and it's a good listen. (also check out the fplus thread here in RGD be because it's a wonderful podcast)
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Jun 22, 2016 09:34
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I never realized that Billy Warlock was the hero of body horror classic Society. my entire world view has been altered.
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Jun 22, 2016 10:12
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Todd posted his review of "7 Years" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiwA_BYttnI Speaking of music, kaptainkristian made a video about Gorillaz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws82rXrjBOI
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Jun 22, 2016 10:31
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Night Mind's new video is on Ben Drowned. Apparently there was a larger ARG tied to this story I never knew about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJlqY1O4B00
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Jun 22, 2016 12:04
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The newest "Needs more Gay" episode with Lindsay Ellis guest staring is just perfect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP1wkh1er3Q
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Jun 22, 2016 13:27
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I Hate Everything is a little tired of people asking him to make a certain video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xg6KXAfCbE
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Jun 22, 2016 15:59
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I hope Todd likes getting poo poo from angry Danes
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Jun 22, 2016 16:29
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Drunken Duck posted:And bought! The qualifications were that those stories were written to solely be about steamy sex and not really about acceptance. I bought the kindle version since I haven't seen my paperback version in years, and reading the introduction again reminds me that there's a bit more too them. Apparently most of the authors were male, but most of them were gay and the few female authors who did write these books were almost all lesbians. All the authors used pseudonyms and their publishers were very protective of them so its hard to be sure. Also according to sales figures Lesbian pulp stories were the reason cheap paperbacks took off in the States when first introduced, and in order to escape the censorship movements and laws at the time the book blurbs were covered with warnings about moral degeneracy, but they were free to have incredibly suggestive covers. Seriously its a goldmine of social history.
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Jun 22, 2016 16:46
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this keemstar drama is so dumb and im lovin' it
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Jun 22, 2016 16:59
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I have no idea who Keemstar is but I've seen videos shooting back at him and this whole thing looks stupid and amusing.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:06
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MrSlam posted:This should be of interest to Miss Wallace. Pocket Ninjas made them destroy a beer glass and a table. I can't wait to watch it! Excited to see their take on Pocket Ninjas, ha ha. Being nitpicky here, but the last BotW was really off to me, like everyone seemed at their most obnoxious, so I'm not sure what happened there. it's entirely possible I was just in a bad mood when I watched it, I dunno. quote:I never realized that Billy Warlock was the hero of body horror classic Society. Seeing Eddie punch his way through a man's dick was the best part of that movie.
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Jun 22, 2016 17:41
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Who the gently caress is keemstar
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Jun 22, 2016 17:48
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HorseRenoir posted:Who the gently caress is keemstar From what I gather he's a Youtube guy that does 'the news' on Youtube drama. The impression I get is that he's gross and has HOT OPINIONs but the thing that set this all off was that he off-handedly unapologetically accused other youtubers of being pedophiles with little to no evidence. Since this is the horrible horrible internet, fans took his dumb remarks very seriously and flooded the accused profiles with vitriol and harrassment to the point that one of the youtubers (an old man) was reduced to tears and the other has to defend himself constantly. I think one thing Youtube could do to improve the state of the site would be to remove the comment section all together.
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Jun 22, 2016 18:04
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Wow what a piece of poo poo
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Jun 22, 2016 18:20
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I haven't finished watching the new BotW, but I'm kinda disappointed that the Dangerous Men riot preview looked pretty fabricated, compared to the Pocket Ninjas one where even passive weak man Jack got in on the action
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Jun 22, 2016 18:23
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