|
closeted republican posted:Looks like resistances for bigger zeds will stay, but it's a huge step in the right direction. *There's no need for having a million different resists period really but hey
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 06:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 22:16 |
|
|
Really the system wasn't horrible it was mostly the implementation, tiny resists here and there like others described are fine but they just went overboard.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 06:22
|
|
|
well at least we know what the line is at this point. to get them to pay attention it needs to be a nuclear reaction from the community that ruins their steam store presence and potentially ruin a conference appearance for them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 06:22
|
|
|
MY GUIDE! NO! But that's nice to hear. I was beginning to get used to the resistances (note: "get used to," not "enjoying") and honestly would've been fine if they just toned it down, but an outright removal is also appreciated. I'll have to revamp everything with the new changes. If anybody lurks in their forums, could you please post in this thread whenever they drop the update in case they do a stealth patch like last time?
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 07:13
|
|
|
 AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 07:42
|
|
|
closeted republican posted:Victory! I wonder what do they mean by Trash? Is it just Crawlers, Slashers, Cysts and Clots? Or is it everything that isn't a Big Zed? Because the recent rollbacks on the resistances to the first 4 are pretty fine already, now my main gripe is with stuff like Stalkers and Sirens being super tanky when they have no reason to be so.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 11:02
|
|
|
closeted republican posted:Victory! In what universe do they live in where making Stalkers immune to shotguns ever seemed like a good idea people would love? That's probably the weirdest part of this, to me - not just that they put the system in to make everything arbitrarily harder to deal with in a lot of situations, but that they thought this system would be universally well received. It's completely baffling.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 12:06
|
|
|
gnome7 posted:In what universe do they live in where making Stalkers immune to shotguns ever seemed like a good idea people would love? That's probably the weirdest part of this, to me - not just that they put the system in to make everything arbitrarily harder to deal with in a lot of situations, but that they thought this system would be universally well received. It's completely baffling. Internal testing with people that already know the game and the resistances inside out went fine.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 12:14
|
|
|
gnome7 posted:In what universe do they live in where making Stalkers immune to shotguns ever seemed like a good idea people would love? That's probably the weirdest part of this, to me - not just that they put the system in to make everything arbitrarily harder to deal with in a lot of situations, but that they thought this system would be universally well received. It's completely baffling. Because they listen to people like that one guy who posted saying he's bored in HoE and needs more of a challenge. I'd love to see the split on what difficulties people play on but if I were to base it on server population something like 70% are running on normal or hard.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 12:29
|
|
|
gnome7 posted:In what universe do they live in where making Stalkers immune to shotguns ever seemed like a good idea people would love? That's probably the weirdest part of this, to me - not just that they put the system in to make everything arbitrarily harder to deal with in a lot of situations, but that they thought this system would be universally well received. It's completely baffling. I mean I wouldn't hate it so much if it made some sense. Like I dunno, make Stalkers have kevlar skin when they aren't cloaked, so that bullet resistance makes some sense, and make them weak to fire and slashing/piercing damage. Or have Crawlers covered in some kind of wet goop, so that they are harder to burn. Or gently caress, DON'T MAKE 13 TYPES OF DAMAGE for some god-forsaken reason. Bullets, fire, microwaves, slashing, piercing, blunt. Guns deal bullet damage, fire is dealt by firebug, mircrowaves (or energy) is dealt by the future guns, slashing is dealt by swinging around sharp objects and also by Eviscerator discs, piercing is dealt by the Crossbow, pluging attacks with sharp objects and the Nailgun, and blunt is for those times when the Pulverizer is out of ammo. And make them have sense, bullets are the standard, fire is over time with high panic, microwaves is high damage but short distance, piercing has high penetration, slashing can but off limbs and blunt has low damage but high knockback. Oh right, and Explosions. Cause Poison can just deal static ticks of damage on each Zed.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 12:31
|
|
|
Laputanmachine posted:Internal testing with people that already know the game and the resistances inside out went fine. Who are probably playing on accounts where all perks are at 25, too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 13:17
|
|
|
Cool, maybe they'll also learn a lesson to let a beta boil for more than 2 days before pushing it live.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 14:01
|
|
|
I feel for them on the "wasted hours" bit but I also tried playing over the weekend and required half a magazine to pop a head on a clot or gorefast or stalker. It felt bad. I'm fine with resistances on larger zeds and I'd even be okay with them on the weaker ones if they're SUPER toned down (which it sounds like exactly what we're getting). But the second you take clots, gorefasts, and crawlers and make them more than just annoyance trash you've made the game far less fun. The challenge is in negating the zeds that have actual gameplay to them, not the ones that mindlessly saunter up to you and punch you. I look forward to playing this week now. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 14:28
|
|
|
My historically unwarranted optimism has been rewarded!
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 14:46
|
|
|
Yeah, I am fine with big zeds and even special zeds having some level of resistances (though try to stop spawning like four sirens at once if they're going to be so tough to kill, Jesus gently caress).
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 14:58
|
|
|
Wow, sending a message via reviews works.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 15:10
|
|
|
alg posted:Wow, sending a message via reviews works. Assuming the reviews all get updated and the score isn't tanked forever
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 15:17
|
|
|
Kikas posted:my main gripe is with stuff like Stalkers and Sirens being super tanky when they have no reason to be so. Yes, this is what I need to know also. Sirens taking repeated M14 headshots (like "4-6" not "2") for example? Get out of here. What they posted sounds like a good move, but I'm waiting on details. Skepticism is warranted.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 16:29
|
|
|
One thing that's really busting my buns right now is why the Lv 10 Stability requires you to stay crouched. I get that it's more "realistic" but when your 200 year old LAR is somehow more powerful than an M21 SWS, realisms gone anyway. It just makes poo poo massively more inconvenient. I know in the grand scheme of things that it really doesn't matter a gently caress iota, but just something to bitch about.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 16:32
|
|
|
Dark_Swordmaster posted:I feel for them on the "wasted hours" Whining about how many hours you spent doing your job wrong is the same nonsense as seeing idiots who are chronically behind on projects ramble on about how all the round-the-clock hours they are working. People who plan don't get that far behind, and people who plan don't spend 'all these wasted hours' on something their customer base will hate. You don't get to complain when you did your job wrong. Synthesizing feedback into real requirements is not easy, and blithely doing what people suggest will kill your project as fast as not soliciting feedback at all. I'm not trying to say it's trivial or simple. But for God's sake, this is Tripwire's what, like 4th or 5th game at this point? Get on with the basics of being an effective studio, already! For my part, my negative review (which is apparently one of the highest rated ones out there at this point) will stay where it is until the game's been stable through a handful of updates that iteratively improve the game without changing the 'vision' drastically. My entire complaint is that I have no idea what KF2 will be after the next patch at this point. Or, put more simply: Psion posted:Skepticism is warranted. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jun 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 16:57
|
|
|
At first, I felt sympathy for Munk when he talked about how he thought fans would love the resistances and spent so much time on it, but then I looked back at this and realized you'd have to be seriously out of touch to think that fans would love having the 90s RPG-like bullshit in that image in their shoot-mans game. Also, I'm not pulling back my negative review until the patch drops and I see exactly what they reverted.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 18:08
|
|
|
DreamShipWrecked posted:Assuming the reviews all get updated and the score isn't tanked forever Bad news, a lot to most of them probably won't, even if TWI somehow perfectly fixed the issue. That's one thing that annoys me about a few games I've seen that had bad starts or points, some of these negative reviews get really high up, then never appended when the problem gets fixed and has been for however long. Like not all that long ago when I looked again, Dirty Bomb still had a whole bunch of negative reviews near the top still complaining about the oldest anti-cheat they had, which got taken out eons ago. Like there's nothing wrong with giving bad reviews and whatever, but a bunch of people never then go back and say something when the issue is gone. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jun 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 18:57
|
|
|
Yardbomb posted:Bad news, a lot to most of them probably won't, even if TWI somehow perfectly fixed the issue. I, for one, will change/remove my review when a satysfying patch drops. Reverting the resistances might be enough, but I gotta see the numbers and some bugfixes, because Zed teleporting is a MASSIVE issue right now on the new maps.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 19:00
|
|
|
Yardbomb posted:a lot to most of them probably won't, even if TWI somehow perfectly fixed the issue. This is partially why Steam now does overall/recent reviews (and I have no idea how important Steam reviews actually are, but let's assume important for now) - and it shouldn't just instantly snap back to Positive or whatever the day this patch drops, anyway, so it's not really a problem and it's not our problem to fix. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 19:12
|
|
|
Yardbomb posted:Bad news, a lot to most of them probably won't, even if TWI somehow perfectly fixed the issue. If I'm bothering to negative review a game it is dead to be and I will be ignorant of any updates. Also "how did they think we would like this" siren, hell forget all the stupid bars look how many of them are low. She takes like no damage from anything. The RPG is crazy good now... if I get to afford it. Demo ammo is even more expensive. And I absolutely need it when the scrakes and fleshpounds show up
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 19:27
|
|
|
closeted republican posted:At first, I felt sympathy for Munk when he talked about how he thought fans would love the resistances and spent so much time on it, but then I looked back at this
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
Insert name here posted:My favourite part is, based on the patch notes, that certain enemies had specific resistances to specific weapons. So despite "handguns" being its own category IIRC the 9mm and starter gunslinger pistol had different resist values to the bloat compared to the other handguns. Like I guess it wasn't enough to just have each type of weapon be a different resist there had to be differences within each type was well. ballistic_submachinegun ballistic_AssaultRifle ballistic_Rifle ballistic_handgun ballistic_shotgun ballistic_9mm piercing mircowave blugdeon fire explosive slashing slashing_knife toxic Why have 6 damage types for bullets? I have no loving clue.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 20:55
|
|
|
Being able to fine-tune shots to kill on a per-weapon basis is fine if needed but that's a really backwards way to do it. Classing all gunslinger handguns together just means you gently caress over the 500s when you make the revolvers weak, or whatever. 500s should be amazing. like, somewhere in this process, someone should have stopped and said "this is too cumbersome," and nobody did, and if you ask me Tripwire needs to fix that. Dumbshit resistances are a symptom, not the root disease. What led them to think this was a positive change and then spend all that time making it happen before, uh, realizing it wasn't in the slightest? also yeah their messaging and outreach is fuckin' awful but if we could have any trust in their internal process, it'd be less of a deal. Fact is, though, we don't and shouldn't. They've proven that. Reap what you sow, etc.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 21:03
|
|
|
Kikas posted:ballistic_submachinegun They also added a specific resistance for the Gunslinger's starting revolvers, as if making enemies resist it slightly less was going to make the handful of GSes post-Sharp update drop their .500s and use the starting revolvers 24/7.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 21:08
|
|
|
Psion posted:Being able to fine-tune shots to kill on a per-weapon basis is fine if needed but that's a really backwards way to do it. Classing all gunslinger handguns together just means you gently caress over the 500s when you make the revolvers weak, or whatever. 500s should be amazing. I mean why do you really need the rear end-backwards way of making it all diffrent types instead of just tweaking with the damage numbers? It's easier for everyone, for the devs to balance and for the players to understand. If they said "well now the 1911s deal 60 instead of 50 damage" it's a nice clear buff and it might even push the weapon past a breakpoint or two. Making that "clots/cysts/slashers now take x1,2 damage from ballistic_handgun" is making everyone scratch their head in confusion and wonder what that means. closeted republican posted:They also added a specific resistance for the Gunslinger's starting revolvers, as if making enemies resist it slightly less was going to make the handful of GSes post-Sharp update drop their .500s and use the starting revolvers 24/7. You are completely correct, there also is "ballstic_Rem1585"
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2016 21:19
|
|
|
Alteisen posted:Really the system wasn't horrible it was mostly the implementation, tiny resists here and there like others described are fine but they just went overboard. I think the problem could be pretty easily summed up like this: a good system has every class be passable against all enemy types, and maybe better or worse at dealing with one particular type. What they did instead was have each perk be really, really good against 1 or two enemies, and heavily handicapped against everything else. That works fine in something like an RTS game, but it's awful in an FPS because it feels overly restrictive. Tangentially related to all this, people on here have long been saying that the demo should get siren resistance as a passive perk, but just reaching level 15 and becoming 100% immune seems a bit...excessive, since it's completely nullifying the perk's hard counter with zero sacrifice on the player's part. Has anyone suggest that tripwire change it to a level-based passive increase like the Demo's gradual ammo capacity increase? Something like, every 5 levels you get an additional 20% chance to resist a siren screaming. It'd introduce an element of chance to it, and by the time you hit 15-20 you'll be succeeding much more often than not anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 01:51
|
|
InequalityGodzilla posted:It'd introduce an element of chance to it, and by the time you hit 15-20 you'll be succeeding much more often than not anyway. No.
|
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 02:23
|
|
|
A class with single-fire, long-reload weapons does not need an element of chance. They need an element of reliability. RNG in my loving rocket launcher is awful. Demo is not that good. It does not need to be loving nerfed more. Like, this is the enemy where you can only reliably kill it in one hit with the RPG, your Tier 4, because the single-shot, theoretically explosive, has-a-blast-radius M79 can't even one-hit it without a direct hit, because a splash-damage based class needs to be as precise as a sharp's railgun...and then you want to add a dice-roll to it? Psion fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Jun 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 02:36
|
|
|
Having to trust the RNG is never a good game mechanic.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 03:04
|
|
|
Malachite_Dragon posted:Having to trust the RNG is never a good game mechanic. "We reduced all revolvers to 5 ammo. They still have 6 chambers, one randomly selected chamber is empty. This has added an element of chance to help diversify the skill ceiling"
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 03:33
|
|
|
InequalityGodzilla posted:I think the problem could be pretty easily summed up like this: a good system has every class be passable against all enemy types, and maybe better or worse at dealing with one particular type. you are really really stupid. I am sure TWI is going to implement all your suggestions.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 05:00
|
|
|
I like the idea of stalkers not being owned by errant fire every which way and get deleted by assault rifles, but yeah they have way too much effective health. More or less everything does. Even with the cumbersome method they used that isn't the problem in my play time so much as everything taking longer to kill and piling up. That hopefully won't be a problem after they lower the resists on all the trash zeds. The 9mm feels like absolute garbo even against slashers
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 05:13
|
|
|
Section Z posted:"We reduced all revolvers to 5 ammo. They still have 6 chambers, one randomly selected chamber is empty. This has added an element of chance to help diversify the skill ceiling" "Based on massive community feedback we have since changed the revolvers to have five empty chambers and one loaded one but hitting 'r' will give you a sick spin animation randomizing the chambered round."
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 06:13
|
|
|
Sorry to interrupt the endless complaining ITT but just wanted to say that the rail gun is sick as gently caress and shooting it gives me a boner K bye
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 07:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 22:16 |
|
|
i'm sad to say killing floor 2 is poo poo
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2016 07:31
|
|
