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Yeah, I really dig ANAD Avengers. If I was going to recommend stuff not on your list? Captain Marvel, Silk, Old Man Logan, All New Wolverine, Spider-Man, Hyperion, and Moon Knight are all really good. Also stuff too good for this world like Contest of Champions, Web Warriors, and unfortunately probably Hyperion  The Inhumans books (All New, Uncanny, Karnak) are really good as well unless you have a predisposition to not liking them like some people seem to have. X-O fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 04:27
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Rhyno posted:ANAD Avengers is really good, the best thing Waid has written in years. I'm definitely feeling Ultimates and A-Force more but I'm not sure whether it's the writing or the new teams. Since everyone seems on board with it though I'll stick with it.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:28
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Nilbop posted:Pretty much the 3 Avengers books, Thor, Iron Man, A-Force and now Mockingbird. Oh and I picked up Totally Awesome Hulk and New X-Men but I haven't got round to reading them yet. I've probably got room for one more. Definitely Vision then. I would strongly suggest reading All-New Wolverine over New X-Men. I haven't talked to a single person who likes/reads Totally Awesome Hulk, and I'd suggest reading USG or Ms Marvel or one of my favorite books currently running, Silk.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:30
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Toxxupation posted:Definitely Vision then. I would strongly suggest reading All-New Wolverine over New X-Men. I haven't talked to a single person who likes/reads Totally Awesome Hulk, and I'd suggest reading USG or Ms Marvel or one of my favorite books currently running, Silk. Totally Awesome Hulk is great. It's Greg Pak writing Amadeus Cho, of course it's great.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:31
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X-O posted:The only thing that kind of bums me out is that they're explaining it straight away instead of it being a longer term thing. I get the idea that we'll know and nobody else in universe will and that's where the story is they're telling, but I was hoping for stringing it out a bit longer. I mean I guess it doesn't matter since most people that stopped to think for a second and paid attention to story clues knew exactly what, how, and when it happened. Um, story clues? I think you mean "cheap writing gimmicks" that only complete hacks who are also anti-semitic resort to. I can prove I am right because I asked Joe Simon's nephew what he thinks.
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Jun 29, 2016 04:51
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Toxxupation posted:Definitely Vision then. I would strongly suggest reading All-New Wolverine over New X-Men. I haven't talked to a single person who likes/reads Totally Awesome Hulk, and I'd suggest reading USG or Ms Marvel or one of my favorite books currently running, Silk. Chulk is a perfectly fine book. It's nothing special, but I'd miss it when it gets cancelled.
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Jun 29, 2016 05:00
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I like Chulk. It might not be one of the Top Tier Must Read Right Away books but I enjoy it. I'd like it if Amadeus Cho became a non Hero-B. If you like Avengers then you should try Ms. Marvel and Spider-Man. I can't recommend Nova because everything revolving around his dad is beyond old. Ultimates is basically an Avengers book. Captain Marvel is also basically an Avengers book but instead of Avengers it's Space Canadians. If you want something different Vision, Moon Knight, Karnak or Black Panther. I like Nick Spencer's Ant-Man and Captain America, but apparently some don't like him for real world reasons.
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Jun 29, 2016 05:23
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Everyone should be reading Mockingbird
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Jun 29, 2016 05:31
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Rhyno posted:Everyone should be reading Mockingbird Yeah I picked this up and it's great. I thought Karnak looked really interesting. I feel like if it gets longer than 12 issues it'll be a miracle, but it looks like it'll scratch that Fraction/Aja Iron Fist itch.
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Jun 29, 2016 05:44
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With the caveat that I haven't read Vision yet, Ultimates and Mockingbird are the best Marvel books right now. Ultimates carries the additional caveat that you need to not hate Marvel space/cosmology stuff.
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Jun 29, 2016 05:53
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Civil War II is getting intense!
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Jun 29, 2016 09:04
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I think that this article is essential reading, especially with regard to the complaints about the latest Steve Rogers story, creators under 'siege' and the changing audience in comics fandom: Where Have All The Good Men Gone? Thoughts On Superhero Fandom 3 particularly good paragraphs: "The new superhero fans want to be included, and there’s no reason why they shouldn’t be. Yet if fans dare so much as create a hashtag like #GiveCapABoyfriend, they’re scoffed at, sneered at, dismissed as “entitled.” Creators and editors should welcome these readers, but instead they act like they’re under siege. They deride the fans and belittle their concerns; they place their creative integrity in opposition to the possibility that art can respond to culture; and they use the horrible behavior of the worst kinds of fans to dismiss the views of any critics. We should all be united in condemning the use of lies, threats, and harassment to advance an agenda, but that censure should be directed at those responsible if it’s going to have weight; it is not meant as a silencing tactic." (c.f. Dan Slott on Twitter.) "But one can appreciate the intelligence of the story, and even see how it will be undone, and still recognize that it sits right on a tender nerve running through contemporary fandom. If you admit that there is a growing audience coming into comics that wants a version of Steve Rogers closer to the one on the movie screen, this version is not only tone-deaf, but provocatively dismissive. For women, people of color, and LGBTQ people, oppression and violence are often realities of everyday life. A story that says “white men in uniform may not have your best interests at heart” is not a shocking twist; it’s a bitterly familiar reality. These fans must feel like they’ve been invited to the party only to be turned away at the door." "During last year’s Secret Wars event, a miniseries called Planet Hulk by Sam Humphries and Marc Laming seemed to posit an alternative reality where Steve and Bucky might be lovers, but this was never confirmed on the page. Marvel thinks that “Cap is a Nazi” is a story worth telling in its main continuity, but it won’t commit to “Steve and Bucky are lovers” even in an alternate gladiatorial world overrun by Hulks. That sends a definite message about what sort of reader Marvel wants; don’t expect an official Steve/Bucky coffee shop romance comic any time soon. (If you don’t think there would be enough drama in that sort of love story, hoo boy, do I have a whole canon of world literature and theatre to introduce you to. You’re in for a treat.)" (See also: Angela and Marvel's shyness about LGBTQ labels compared to PoC lead characters.)
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Jun 29, 2016 10:13
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As someone who would have been killed by the Nazis several times over, the "Nazi Cap" outrage was loving ridiculous.
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Jun 29, 2016 10:16
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Steve and Bucky should not be lovers and anyone that thinks that is just wrong. As pointed out they have a father/son relationship and Bucky was a child through most of their adventures. Also fans should not get everything they want in books to the point that they impose their will on writers who want to take a story their own way.
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Jun 29, 2016 10:18
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Well, to be fair, while I don't think Nick Spencer would go for Cap/Bucky, even if he did he probably wouldn't be allowed to, and that's the problem imo. I don't see their relationship as romantic either though.
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Jun 29, 2016 10:21
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i dont know about you but as a bisexual i would like to think a surrogate son-father relationship turning sexual is some goodass representation and not at all loving creepy
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Jun 29, 2016 10:22
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He shouldn't be allowed to whether he wanted to or not. Because it would be a really bad and gross decision.
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Jun 29, 2016 10:23
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no psuedo-incest? no thank you marvel i won't take your uninclusiveness
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Jun 29, 2016 10:23
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X-O posted:He shouldn't be allowed to whether he wanted to or not. Because it would be a really bad and gross decision. As if comics have never been really bad and gross. I agree with you but that's not the reasoning Marvel would use. Marvel keeps Steve a straight white man because they don't want Steve being anything else, regardless of who he'd be paired with.
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Jun 29, 2016 10:27
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I totally agree that a Prime Universe/616 Cap & Bucky romance would be wrong, and I hear you on the bisexual representation (though I wouldn't be against Cap (or loving ANYONE) coming out as bisexual while in a 'straight' relationship, as it would be nice to see bisexuals who are in 'hetero' relationships represented somewhere, even recognising our privilege of passing) However, not everyone is going to be aware of their WWII comics history, having seen the movies or whatever and then wanting a Cap to reflect them/their interests. Even now, it's not like you're spoiled for choice with LGBT characters and if you're a fan of the excellent Chris Evans portrayal in the MCU, which easily supports queer readings if you wish to do so, you're gonna gravitate to Cap and/or Stucky and what do you get? No one is seriously arguing that comics should solely cater to whatever this demographic is, but if you look at all of the comics that Marvel are publishing (an impressive percentage of which are excellent, no doubt) this new and hungry audience is being underserved, and coming in for a lot of blowback, which is disappointing when you consider the classic comic book shop experience. There's a reason groups like The Valkyries are so important to people. Also, the SW Planet Hulk miniseries queer baiting so hard really was weak, despite being excellent otherwise.
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Jun 29, 2016 10:36
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WickedHate posted:As if comics have never been really bad and gross. I agree with you but that's not the reasoning Marvel would use. Marvel keeps Steve a straight white man because they don't want Steve being anything else, regardless of who he'd be paired with. Well sure if you want to make Cap gay even though in 75 years of stories there's never been any inclination he was gay, and in fact plenty of proof that he wasn't, sure go ahead. It doesn't make any sense. It's not like an Iceman situation where there were theories from fans for years that he might be. But the problem is, as pointed out when this this was trending on twitter or whatever, the whole campaign is completely disingenuous. It wasn't people wanting Cap to just be gay. It was people specifically wanting Cap and Bucky to be a couple. And not even based on the comics, just because of the movie. The same people would likely be just as mad if Cap was gay and not with Bucky. Because that's what they want in the movie.
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Jun 29, 2016 10:37
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X-O posted:But the problem is, as pointed out when this this was trending on twitter or whatever, the whole campaign is completely disingenuous. It wasn't people wanting Cap to just be gay. It was people specifically wanting Cap and Bucky to be a couple. And not even based on the comics, just because of the movie. The same people would likely be just as mad if Cap was gay and not with Bucky. Because that's what they want in the movie. I also agree with that. Neither side is blameless, I'm just pointing out Marvel isn't perfect and have mishandled this kind of stuff over the years. Also, as Metalshark and that article pointed out, the queerbaiting that went on in the SW issue sucked and was more briefly giving token acknowledgment to queer people without any thought as to whether the relationship made sense or not.
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Jun 29, 2016 10:41
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X-O posted:Well sure if you want to make Cap gay even though in 75 years of stories there's never been any inclination he was gay, and in fact plenty of proof that he wasn't, sure go ahead. It doesn't make any sense. It's not like an Iceman situation where there were theories from fans for years that he might be. But the problem is, as pointed out when this this was trending on twitter or whatever, the whole campaign is completely disingenuous. It wasn't people wanting Cap to just be gay. It was people specifically wanting Cap and Bucky to be a couple. And not even based on the comics, just because of the movie. The same people would likely be just as mad if Cap was gay and not with Bucky. Because that's what they want in the movie. I think that it's difficult among all the noise to separate a genuine desire for further representation, a genuine love for their desired Stucky relationship, and the crazies who are going psycho Arrow fan about it and solely focus on Stucky above anything else (like good storytelling or awkward history, or whatever), but lumping everyone in together is harsh, as there will always be crazies on both sides of any argument. The 75 years of stories argument doesn't hold water for me either, since you can look at Wonder Woman and her complicated sexuality that could be made overt (and would have been, in a more open-minded time, which makes her current situation mystifying). Wonder Woman shows how there are some characters who are off-limits to being LGBT, even when they could or even should be. Note that I'm not saying that Steve necessarily should be revealed as something, but he would be an amazing representative for whatever group if he were to 'come out', which is obviously tantalising to LGBT people just like having a Black Captain America is important. If there were plenty of other gay characters I would be looking at Steve less as a potentially amazing representative and more as a character, whereupon I would weigh up my interpretation of his sexuality differently. Objectively, he seems pretty vanilla to me, based on what I've read of him in the comics, which is Hickman's Avengers, and plenty of event books, but I've only ever read Sam Wilson's Captain America volumes, so I've not seen the space for Steve to get it on. You could write an amazing story about a man out of time coming to terms (or not!) with his sexuality in our modern society though. Not everyone knows it/recognises it from the off, and these stories are also valuable.
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Jun 29, 2016 10:51
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It's like...if someone didn't want a kid to get on an unsafe fair ride, and you were like, "that's good of them, because the child could be injured or worse", but the guy actually just didn't want the ride's paint to get scuffed. Stucky not being a thing is technically the right decision but for the wrong reasons. Metalshark nailed it with the Wonder Woman thing. Why the gently caress was DC pushing her relationship with Superman so hard? Definitely not because it was the most logical and in character development path. WickedHate fucked around with this message at 10:57 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 10:55
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X-O posted:Well sure if you want to make Cap gay even though in 75 years of stories there's never been any inclination he was gay, and in fact plenty of proof that he wasn't, sure go ahead. It doesn't make any sense. It's not like an Iceman situation where there were theories from fans for years that he might be. But the problem is, as pointed out when this this was trending on twitter or whatever, the whole campaign is completely disingenuous. It wasn't people wanting Cap to just be gay. It was people specifically wanting Cap and Bucky to be a couple. And not even based on the comics, just because of the movie. The same people would likely be just as mad if Cap was gay and not with Bucky. Because that's what they want in the movie. They should give Cap a boyfriend, but it's the Red Skull. That would be a great twist. Nobody would see it coming!
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Jun 29, 2016 11:17
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It is shipping taken to the next level and it is dumb.
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Jun 29, 2016 11:43
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I thought the Cap/Bucky thing was entirely intended for the movies where it would make some sort of sense and not be really creepy. Doing it in comics would be bad for a number of reasons, but it would be entirely whatever in the movies.
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Jun 29, 2016 13:23
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twistedmentat posted:Yep. So all those people going "MARVEL HATES JEWS!!!!" because of it better eat a big loving plate of crow. The only Jew Marvel hates is the kike known as Sabretooth.
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Jun 29, 2016 13:53
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I am 100% behind #GiveCapABoyfriend, as long as it's not Bucky, due to the father/son thing stated above. Also, not a man of the Carter line. Give him a good "man out of time" story (some of my favorite Cap stories) and hook him up with a beardo from Billyburg. Not a hero, not an alien, not an existing supporting character.
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Jun 29, 2016 14:14
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I just read the new Cap issue and I have to ask, does Spencer have a raging hate boner for Helmut Zemo. Pretty much every single sight or mention of him in the book is accompanied by someone viciously mocking him.
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Jun 29, 2016 14:36
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I hadn't seen this mentioned, and well, it sure is timely and topical to this here Cap discussion: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/gay-captain-america-xxx-parody_us_5772bc91e4b0352fed3e092e Probably don't click if you're working the front desk at LifeWay. redbackground fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Jun 29, 2016 |
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Jun 29, 2016 15:26
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redbackground posted:I hadn't seen this mentioned, and well, it sure is timely and topical to this here Cap discussion: If the action choreography is even half as good as in Civil War, I'll give it a shot.
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Jun 29, 2016 15:33
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Squizzle posted:If the action choreography is even half as good as in Civil War, I'll give it a shot. The costume design is on point.
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Jun 29, 2016 15:50
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Pastry of the Year posted:The only Jew Marvel hates is the kike known as Sabretooth. I feel like the people who got really mad at the very suggestion of Hydra-Cap would tar and feather me for buying this issue when I saw it at a nerd rummage sale a couple weeks back. And if that wasn't enough, I also bought a Kim Mitchell album.
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Jun 29, 2016 15:58
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Mr Hootington posted:It is shipping taken to the next level and it is dumb. Yeah that's the only irksome thing about it. Like if you want to see Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan bone then that's fine, I'll upvote your fanfic, but that doesn't make you a noble crusader for representation, you just want to see two very particular men make out. (Also I guess I have to read Planet Hulk again because I totally missed any gay subtext, probably too focused on dinosaurs)
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Jun 29, 2016 16:00
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That panel was an interesting quirk when it was released, but now it's loving hilarious in retrospect.
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Jun 29, 2016 16:00
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Diet Poison posted:I feel like the people who got really mad at the very suggestion of Hydra-Cap would tar and feather me for buying this issue when I saw it at a nerd rummage sale a couple weeks back. And if that wasn't enough, I also bought a Kim Mitchell album. If they're that worked up over it, they should calm down and go for soda.
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Jun 29, 2016 17:09
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Steve and Bucky shouldn't be lovers any more than Batman and Nightwing should.
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Jun 29, 2016 18:34
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Yeah comic Steve and Bucky would have some pedophilla undertones. Movie Steve and Bucky doesn't work because while they obviously do have feelings for each other, the feelings look like a strong and loving family bond. They look like brothers, not lovers. So incest undertones the way I see it. Thinking about it. They both fit the Internet fandoms and no wonder they want this.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:21
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I get the idea behind the hashtag in general, since Winter Soldier effectively switches places with Sam and Natasha; Sam's the supportive, warm presence, while Natasha's the snarky sidekick. In a lot of other movies, a female character in Sam's general role in the story would also be a love interest. If you were going to put MCU Cap in a same-sex relationship, Sam would make a hell of a lot more sense than Bucky. Right now, I wouldn't want to put comics!Cap into anything of the sort, if only because he's in the middle of a mind-control plot and that opens up a bunch of potentially gross doors.
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Jun 29, 2016 19:27
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