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Mister Kingdom posted:Just watched "Relics" and how the hell were they able to just let Scotty go like that? Starfleet Command would poo poo themselves to get their hands on him. He'd been retired for like 75 years by that point. He's under no obligation to do what Starfleet Command tells him any more, and besides, he'd probably sabotage any ship that tried to chase after him like he did with the Excelsior.
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Jul 8, 2016 23:30
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Nessus posted:Given that they swap species around and regenerate organs I imagine that just about any injury can be repaired if you get to sickbay in any kind of alive state, or even very freshly dead. Even with major brain damage they can probably make you come back but that one you might need some brain chips for. Under this rubric, gender transition would probably be a substantial medical operation but not anywhere near as problematic as it is in the modern day, probably similar to wearing braces, and no doubt treated the same way. Yeah, when Quark got a gender flip in "Profit and Lace" it was treated as neither an excessively difficult medical procedure nor any kind of socially challenging practice in and of itself. That doesn't save the rest of the episode from being a desperately unfunny attempt at gender-bending comedy of errors, but at least they hit that nail on the head. McSpanky fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Jul 8, 2016 |
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Jul 8, 2016 23:38
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In the 24th century I'm sure there are people who get looked down upon for being erotically charged by the Horta or getting turned on by the Jellyfish from Farpoint. I'm sure same species sex is nothing.
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Jul 8, 2016 23:58
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Sad King Billy posted:In the 24th century I'm sure there are people who get looked down upon for being erotically charged by the Horta or getting turned on by the Jellyfish from Farpoint. I'm sure same species sex is nothing. Sexually, women don't appeal to me at all. But I'd pay to watch Worf and Jadzia Dax get down into some interspecies sex. After they get married, of course.
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Jul 9, 2016 00:02
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Apollodorus posted:He'd been retired for like 75 years by that point. He's under no obligation to do what Starfleet Command tells him any more, and besides, he'd probably sabotage any ship that tried to chase after him like he did with the Excelsior. I wonder if Starfleet officers get a pension? Since Scotty's not dead, would they have to reinstate his?
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Jul 9, 2016 00:30
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Mister Kingdom posted:Just watched "Relics" and how the hell were they able to just let Scotty go like that? Starfleet Command would poo poo themselves to get their hands on him. Why? While he was gone for 75 years it's not like that was long enough that he'd have crazy information for them. After all. McCoy was still alive at the beginning of TNG.
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Jul 9, 2016 00:35
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Mister Kingdom posted:I wonder if Starfleet officers get a pension? Since Scotty's not dead, would they have to reinstate his? Ask Ralph Offenhouse how well that sort of plan worked out for him.
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Jul 9, 2016 00:44
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Powered Descent posted:Ask Ralph Offenhouse how well that sort of plan worked out for him. In one of the books he went on to be the Ambassador to Ferenginar.
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Jul 9, 2016 00:50
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Powered Descent posted:Ask Ralph Offenhouse how well that sort of plan worked out for him. Yeah, but he was a godless capitalist.
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Jul 9, 2016 00:59
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Gammatron 64 posted:Jadzia Dax is almost definitely bisexual. People always mention that TOS having the first interracial kiss (which it didn't, but was one of the first), DS9 had one of the very first lesbian kisses on TV: I'm pleased someone brought this up, at the time when DS9 was running they were so afraid of a gay association that they really heavily marketed the whole its not Jadzia she loves its the male form of Dax. The dvd extra's recorded in the early 2000's dedicate several minutes to further hammering home this "Love trancends physicality, its not about two women kissing but about two lovers, remember Dax is a Oh and that interracial kiss in TOS that Trek is so happy to take credit for? Was because sadistic aliens made Uhura and Kirk kiss, while there actors do their very best to communicate how much they hate what's happening to them. Trek really needs to stop blowing smoke up its own arse.
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Jul 9, 2016 01:06
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So maybe Sulu could be Bi or Homoflexible? Then settles down with a nice gent and they get Demora one way or another. Also for gay in Trek, worth mentioning is the bit in "Rules of Acquisition" when Jadzia figures out Pel is crushing on Quark BEFORE she realizes Pel is a woman in disguise. Jadzia was all NBD about possible gay Pel.
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Jul 9, 2016 02:11
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Cross-posting from CineD -- just as a heads-up for everyone, Beyond had its premiere in Sydney last night, so I would expect spoilers to be hitting the Internet sooner rather than later.
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Jul 9, 2016 02:53
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CharlieWhiskey posted:Maybe Prime Sulu was closeted and JJ Sulu embraced his true sexuality. Pegg just said something that's making the rounds to the effect of "things are different in this timeline, so for whatever reason Kelvin Sulu might have turned out gay but Prime Sulu might not be." I suppose you could handwave the canon by saying that the more time passes since the Narada incursion, the more things will change. Kirk was born at that moment, Spock and McCoy are older as well. But the younger folks? Hikaru Sulu's parent's might have had a son in both timelines around the same time and named him Hikaru Sulu, but if he was conceived even seconds later, and a different sperm hit Mama Sulu's egg? You get a totally different person, perhaps one who is gay.  Which is why the odds of there ever being Kelvin Timeline Jean Luc Picard, William Riker, etc are exceedingly slim. Of course, Star Trek doesn't always adhere to this logic, since for whatever reason when the Mirror Universe timeline diverged around First Contact (if not earlier) you still had the same folks being born and getting together in the 23rd and 24th centuries, but whatevs.
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Jul 9, 2016 04:11
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KurdtLives posted:So maybe Sulu could be Bi or Homoflexible? Then settles down with a nice gent and they get Demora one way or another. Why? As observed, he never was really shown being much into women in TOS. He's the only major character who didn't have a love interest at any point.
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Jul 9, 2016 06:05
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MikeJF posted:Why? As observed, he never was really shown being much into women in TOS. He's the only major character who didn't have a love interest at any point. Well, clearly he's asexual then.
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Jul 9, 2016 06:07
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Sulu's sexuality is so repressed that in STIII he locked another dude in a closet.
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Jul 9, 2016 06:09
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Mister Kingdom posted:I wonder if Starfleet officers get a pension? Since Scotty's not dead, would they have to reinstate his? I could see retired Starfleet officers getting some perks of some kind, though I imagine it'd be more like 'getting to ride along on Starfleet vessels instead of taking, I don't know, the warp-Megabus to Risa'.
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Jul 9, 2016 06:20
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Baka-nin posted:I'm pleased someone brought this up, at the time when DS9 was running they were so afraid of a gay association that they really heavily marketed the whole its not Jadzia she loves its the male form of Dax. The dvd extra's recorded in the early 2000's dedicate several minutes to further hammering home this "Love trancends physicality, its not about two women kissing but about two lovers, remember Dax is a And people like you need to stop being so disingenuous to score some easy social justice points out of context. DS9 had to play it that way because homosexual content was still a big taboo on TV in the 90s, and even after all the bending over backwards they did to cloak the issue in scifi parable they still got a bunch of hate mail and angry calls because of the actual on-screen kiss. And as for Uhura and Kirk, multiply that by like a hundred for 60s race relations and then also consider that NBC was so leery of offending the Bible Belt that they ordered two versions of the scene, one where they kissed and one where they didn't; Bill and Nichelle decided to gently caress up all the takes of the latter so badly that they had no choice but to go with the former.
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Jul 9, 2016 08:38
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Nessus posted:How the hell would you have a pension in a post scarcity environment? I imagine if anything the Federation would just want to make sure Scotty was OK, maybe give him a checkup medically. They might prefer he not get assimilated by the Borg or something. Scotty remarks in Star Trek Judgement Rites that he is worried about his pension. It was a funny remark.
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Jul 9, 2016 09:47
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Astroman posted:Pegg just said something that's making the rounds to the effect of "things are different in this timeline, so for whatever reason Kelvin Sulu might have turned out gay but Prime Sulu might not be." I imagine this is what Takei doesn't like about the prospect of Sulu being gay. It's not quite the same as saying that being gay is a choice, but saying that someone is only gay because some guy blew up a planet leaves the door open to a lot of similar ideas.
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Jul 9, 2016 10:36
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McSpanky posted:And people like you need to stop being so disingenuous to score some easy social justice points out of context. DS9 had to play it that way because homosexual content was still a big taboo on TV in the 90s, and even after all the bending over backwards they did to cloak the issue in scifi parable they still got a bunch of hate mail and angry calls because of the actual on-screen kiss. And as for Uhura and Kirk, multiply that by like a hundred for 60s race relations and then also consider that NBC was so leery of offending the Bible Belt that they ordered two versions of the scene, one where they kissed and one where they didn't; Bill and Nichelle decided to gently caress up all the takes of the latter so badly that they had no choice but to go with the former. Social Justice, point scoring? Ha ha not even close, its called scrutiny. I'm saying Treks constant for decades trumpeting of its own achievements doesn't stand up to it. Which you've just confirmed with your bitter white knighting (see I can use hip net slang too), so no I'm not being disingenuous at all, I'm being accurate, so thanks for the validation I guess. Seriously pointing out that they had to go with a take because of the sabotage of the actors doesn't help your point at all, it undermines it. I don't care if a franchise chooses to play it safe for the sake of its business, I take issue when a franchise plays it safe then spends years patting itself on the back for how bold and willing to take risks etc. Because that is being disingenuous, had the Trek team been honest and said, "we took some risks with our casting and pushed the envelope out on some episodes, but due to the attitudes of TV markets we unfortunately had to spike a few more interesting ideas, or change them up a bit", I'd be fine with it. Oh and get some perspective, mate, receiving hatemail and angry phone calls isn't impressive (should we praise the Brady Bunch for Cousin Oliver?), neither is the risk of losing ad revenue from the American South East, especially not when your comparing it to the actual struggles and there dangers that Trek timidly trailed.
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Jul 9, 2016 11:08
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Thom12255 posted:Scotty remarks in Star Trek Judgement Rites that he is worried about his pension. Oh poo poo, did Scotty never get to use the boat he bought right before the beginning of ST6? 
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Jul 9, 2016 12:52
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McCoy: I'd give real money if he'd shut up. At least money has some value.
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Jul 9, 2016 13:27
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Maybe. Or maybe he's just so fed up with Chang's incessant Shakespeare quoting that he uses a very strong colorful metaphor.
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Jul 9, 2016 13:38
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Apollodorus posted:Maybe. Or maybe he's just so fed up with Chang's incessant Shakespeare quoting that he uses a very strong colorful metaphor. Could be seeing as he's a good ol' country doctor. What does being a "country doctor" mean in the 23rd century? He was appalled at the idea of slicing people open to treat them.
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Jul 9, 2016 13:44
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Mister Kingdom posted:Could be seeing as he's a good ol' country doctor. What does being a "country doctor" mean in the 23rd century? He was appalled at the idea of slicing people open to treat them. I remember in one TNG episode Polaski had to explain the concept of a splint to one of her staffers, and he was aghast. And then there's Beverly Crusher not knowing what a headache is. 23rd Century medicine seems a bit erratic in its priorities. On the plus side they appear to have cracked spinal injuries and bird bone syndrome.
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Jul 9, 2016 14:14
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I like how you both blame the compromises made to deal with the realities of television production at the time on the productions suffering under them instead of the network masters who forced them, AND you act like "Trek" (as if the franchise is some monolithic single-owner-controlled creative juggernaut, like say Star Wars was) aggrandized for its recognition in breaking social barriers instead of mostly being acknowledged for them from outside, and to a large degree from the very people it was speaking up for. I mean yeah, there's certainly a bunch of stuff that's clearly an example of the social failings of the time (TOS's treatment of women is, complicated, to put it very kindly), but hey, let's throw everything under the bus from the rarefied heights of 2016, golden age of all cultural tolerance. Self-hating fans are the worst. Here's an exercise for you: After Grace Lee Whitney was let go in the first season Nichelle Nichols was the only female regular left, and by chance spoke to Martin Luthor King Jr. about wanting to leaving the show. quote:"He was telling me why I could not [resign]," she recalls. "He said I had the first nonstereotypical role, I had a role with honor, dignity and intelligence. He said, 'You simply cannot abdicate, this is an important role. This is why we are marching. We never thought we'd see this on TV.'" The exercise was just to read that anecdote in case you hadn't heard it before, please continue to amuse me with more clumsily shortsighted criticisms.
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Jul 9, 2016 15:10
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Baka-nin posted:Social Justice, point scoring? Ha ha not even close, its called scrutiny. I'm saying Treks constant for decades trumpeting of its own achievements doesn't stand up to it. Which you've just confirmed with your bitter white knighting (see I can use hip net slang too), so no I'm not being disingenuous at all, I'm being accurate, so thanks for the validation I guess. Seriously pointing out that they had to go with a take because of the sabotage of the actors doesn't help your point at all, it undermines it. I don't know how you can be so obtuse. It's not like the script gods send a script down from heaven and all the bigoted white people said "Oh darn, we have to make this script where a controversial thing happens. We can't get around this, we are forced to do this thing we hate." They still did the things in the first place. They could have just made a safe show within the rules of TV at the time and no one would have cared but they decided to push the boundaries even if the boundaries still had to be within the rules. To our minds today, it seems tame and not a big deal, but it was huge when they aired.
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Jul 9, 2016 15:34
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McSpanky posted:I like how you both blame the compromises made to deal with the realities of television production at the time on the productions suffering under them instead of the network masters who forced them, AND you act like "Trek" (as if the franchise is some monolithic single-owner-controlled creative juggernaut, like say Star Wars was) aggrandized for its recognition in breaking social barriers instead of mostly being acknowledged for them from outside, and to a large degree from the very people it was speaking up for. I mean yeah, there's certainly a bunch of stuff that's clearly an example of the social failings of the time (TOS's treatment of women is, complicated, to put it very kindly), but hey, let's throw everything under the bus from the rarefied heights of 2016, golden age of all cultural tolerance. Self-hating fans are the worst. Actually I've felt that Trek (that was a short hand generalisation by the way) has been overselling itself as a culturally important phenomena rather than a television show that shook things up a bit since the 90's. But sure straw man me all you like, and I'm not self hating at all thank you very much, I've come to terms with my sexuality and ethnic heritage several years ago so do stop projecting onto me would you, its not a healthy habit. quote:Here's an exercise for you: After Grace Lee Whitney was let go in the first season Nichelle Nichols was the only female regular left, and by chance spoke to Martin Luthor King Jr. about wanting to leaving the show. You may need better reading glasses, I said I didn't think Trek production staff should go on about the interracial kiss scene because of the way they did it muddied the waters quite a bit, oh and that they only went ahead with it thanks to actor sabotage tying there hands. Nothing about Uhura's character at all. Again stop strawmanning me please. Didn't you just say we shouldn't treat Trek as a monolith? Because that's what your doing here. If you have to invent positions to have a go at me then maybe you'd be better off not posting to begin with. quote:The exercise was just to read that anecdote in case you hadn't heard it before, please continue to amuse me with more clumsily shortsighted criticisms. I really doubt I am amusing you, in fact you don't appear to be taking this well at all with your rather poor form attempts to argue me down. Here's some advice If you want to pretend you're being flippant then make your tone match because this isn't fooling me. I'm sorry to see you don't take criticism well, and I don't understand why your taking someone not agreeing with you so personally but there we are. And yes I have seen that quote many times, care to actually link it to what either you or I have said? Cojawfee posted:I don't know how you can be so obtuse. It's not like the script gods send a script down from heaven and all the bigoted white people said "Oh darn, we have to make this script where a controversial thing happens. We can't get around this, we are forced to do this thing we hate." They still did the things in the first place. They could have just made a safe show within the rules of TV at the time and no one would have cared but they decided to push the boundaries even if the boundaries still had to be within the rules. To our minds today, it seems tame and not a big deal, but it was huge when they aired. What are you talking about? I'm saying I don't think the show was as groundbreaking on social issues as those affiliated with the show love to claim and think it'd be better if they'd be a bit more grounded in their claims. You can disagree with it all you like, but what's so hard to grasp about my point of view.
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Jul 9, 2016 16:25
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Star Trek is serious business.
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Jul 9, 2016 16:34
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I like Star Trak
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Jul 9, 2016 16:50
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I like Star Trak Get a load of this dork!
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Jul 9, 2016 17:01
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Star Trek also have first salamander sex
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Jul 9, 2016 17:02
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All of this has been posted before...
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Jul 9, 2016 17:09
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Brawnfire posted:Star Trek also have first salamander sex
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Jul 9, 2016 17:10
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Star Trek is the most progressive show, just look at episodes like "The Paradise Syndrome," "Code of Honor," "Turnabout Intruder," "Profit and Lace," "Tattoo," or "Unexpected."
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Jul 9, 2016 17:11
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When I think of all the other garbage TV shows that were Star Trek's contemporaries than yeah, I think it's still pretty loving progressive until Voyager when they seemed to stop caring about such things Future instalments should of course, strive to be better (as they should in all ways) but holy gently caress what a lot of whining to say that these shows are still products of their loving time
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Jul 9, 2016 17:13
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Star Trek did not in fact single-handedly conquer racism, sexism and every form of discrimination by 1970 WHAT A LOAD OF BULLSHIT I CALL SHENANIGANS!!
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Jul 9, 2016 17:37
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Tighclops posted:When I think of all the other garbage TV shows that were Star Trek's contemporaries than yeah, I think it's still pretty loving progressive until Voyager when they seemed to stop caring about such things If that isn't utopian and a fulfillment of MLKjr's vision, then I don't know what is mate. Also the best Trek was the Futurama tribute episode. "Fascinating, Captain. And logical also" FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jul 9, 2016 |
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Jul 9, 2016 18:19
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McSpanky posted:And people like you need to stop being so disingenuous to score some easy social justice points out of context. DS9 had to play it that way because homosexual content was still a big taboo on TV in the 90s, and even after all the bending over backwards they did to cloak the issue in scifi parable they still got a bunch of hate mail and angry calls because of the actual on-screen kiss.  The DS9 folks said that while all the calls were angry, all the letters were grateful!Also that the big fear was that individual stations would drop the series, which is a significant concern for a syndicated series trying to not piss off the studio. I think they lost one station, but I need to get my own copy of The DS9 Companion so feel free to correct me on that. FilthyImp posted:Also the best Trek was the Futurama tribute episode.  Yes! Front row!
After The War fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Jul 9, 2016 |
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