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I'm not paying for poo poo. Time to install Gagester.
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Jul 14, 2016 19:26
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Bad news, guys- MtWicox is down again, they got raided by Garrett.
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Jul 14, 2016 19:43
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Then why are they doing it? to provide incentive to play the game consistently between dlcs?
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Jul 14, 2016 20:42
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Most mods are free. This arrangement is explicitly, "You make a thing. We may monetize your thing for our gain, and you will receive no compensation." Eh, OVK is completely up front about not paying anyone. It's really hard to sympathize with anyone who would willingly make content knowing they won't be compensated for it, if that person then demands it. This is much better (and more forthcoming) than the idiocy at Bethesda when they announced a mod store with open submissions and no verification process to guarantee that the content submitter and the content creator were one and the same. Yes, artists should absolutely get paid. Nobody will dispute that. But if they offer free art, they can't really complain about said art being used either.
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Jul 14, 2016 20:46
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There's actually a really piss-easy way to pay artists that costs OVK nothing, if one of your skins gets selected to be made 'official' then OVK credits you a piece of DLC, or COP, or gives you a copy of PD2 to sell or give to a friend. You'll note this is the exact same thing they're already doing for their prank call contest, there's no reason it couldn't work here. Acting like there's utterly no way to compensate artists for their work is loving bullshit 100% of the time.
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Jul 14, 2016 21:04
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What if when you get your skin in the game you get a bunch of specialty tagged versions of those skins, like thirty or so: then you can sell those or give them away or whatever.
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Jul 14, 2016 21:06
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Look the only real solution to this issue is a global socialist revolution and murdering all bankers. Then everyone works for free!
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Jul 14, 2016 22:02
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Nordick posted:Am I weird for just wanting to stick to the Crook deck forever? you will pry my uncomplicated Muscle/ICTV build from my shredded, explosion-rattled hands
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Jul 14, 2016 22:11
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anarchist for life, long live anarchist
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Jul 14, 2016 22:23
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Grapplejack posted:What if when you get your skin in the game you get a bunch of specialty tagged versions of those skins, like thirty or so: then you can sell those or give them away or whatever. This is also a solid idea, it's almost like there's lots of ways to pay artists for work that they do!
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Jul 14, 2016 22:31
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Grapplejack posted:What if when you get your skin in the game you get a bunch of specialty tagged versions of those skins, like thirty or so: then you can sell those or give them away or whatever. Depending on implementation, this sort of setup could very easily undermine the value of the skin, and consequently, Overkill's bottom line. Afraid of Audio posted:to provide incentive to play the game consistently between dlcs? Ah, yes, a crowd-sourced income method is definitely necessary to retain players between DLCs. Oh wait... Shooting Blanks posted:Eh, OVK is completely up front about not paying anyone. It's really hard to sympathize with anyone who would willingly make content knowing they won't be compensated for it, if that person then demands it... Yes, artists should absolutely get paid. Nobody will dispute that. But if they offer free art, they can't really complain about said art being used either. I agree. I think the system is stupid, but no one can stop some guy from entering into a bad contract.
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Jul 14, 2016 23:06
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:There's actually a really piss-easy way to pay artists that costs OVK nothing, if one of your skins gets selected to be made 'official' then OVK credits you a piece of DLC, or COP, or gives you a copy of PD2 to sell or give to a friend. You'll note this is the exact same thing they're already doing for their prank call contest, there's no reason it couldn't work here. Acting like there's utterly no way to compensate artists for their work is loving bullshit 100% of the time. Crabtree posted:No skins are free to unlock from safes. That's where the problem lies in incentivizing and rewarding artistic effort. OVERKILL is only making money from trade transactions on the Steam Market. Thus they don't likely have the money to burn for every user made gun skin that makes it into the community space. No one likes to not be payed for their work, artist or not. Thus where do you pay the artist to care about really making something good in a community that will steal from that artist anyway, whether or not they piss them off by making the community skin cost anything other than free? It's a problem with no good solutions that won't enrage a frothing mass of babies.
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Jul 14, 2016 23:07
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Depending on implementation, this sort of setup could very easily undermine the value of the skin, and consequently, Overkill's bottom line. take a break
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Jul 14, 2016 23:09
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I made a bad build (For some reason it says I have -11 skill points left..i'd have 5 points left.) this is the outcome I get  edit: I unbought jack of all trades basic and gave that to eco sentry aced spit on my clit fucked around with this message at 23:17 on Jul 14, 2016 |
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Jul 14, 2016 23:15
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Depending on implementation, this sort of setup could very easily undermine the value of the skin, and consequently, Overkill's bottom line. I was thinking a cool gold outline on the select screen and the artists name on a placard on the side, like the csgo nameplates
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Jul 14, 2016 23:20
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Grapplejack posted:csgo the above comment has as much value as all the conversations about business models itt
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Jul 14, 2016 23:21
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BillmasterCozb posted:I made a bad build (For some reason it says I have -11 skill points left..i'd have 5 points left.) There's some weird bug with PD2Skills where you have to lower the level to 99 or whatever then raise it back to 100 to have it show the skill points right. Anyway, there's nothing all that bad about the build or even the weapon selections (personally I'd move the pistol points into Oppressor) except for the fact that if you don't Ace Third Law with those leftover points in order to give the sentries a shield, they're getting destroyed in seconds even if you place them in the corner.
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Jul 14, 2016 23:22
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Coolguye posted:cunterstrike: gonads slightly more tbh
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Jul 14, 2016 23:22
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Coolguye posted:you will pry my uncomplicated Muscle/ICTV build from my shredded, explosion-rattled hands Afraid of Audio posted:anarchist for life, long live anarchist I tried Anarchist for a while with my ICTV, and I think I'm just going back to Muscle. I get shredded by Snipers and Black Dozers when I used to be basically invincible. On the other hand, I have played with Crook for a akimbo silenced pistol build, and it's kinda nice to not feel like you have to constantly sprint.
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Jul 14, 2016 23:25
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Daryl Surat posted:There's some weird bug with PD2Skills where you have to lower the level to 99 or whatever then raise it back to 100 to have it show the skill points right. Anyway, there's nothing all that bad about the build or even the weapon selections except for the fact that if you don't Ace Third Law with those leftover points in order to give the sentries a shield, they're getting destroyed in seconds even if you place them in the corner. Well the actual build in play has both that and eco sentry aced, but no jack of all trades. Because of the bronco's crazy 33 concealment total, I can bring a sawed-down minigun, but without the "I'll take half that" kit, and still be at 23 detection risk...Sentries can benefit from crits, right? Cause otherwise, unseen strike is useless.
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Jul 14, 2016 23:25
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Discendo Vox posted:It's a problem with no good solutions that won't enrage a frothing mass of babies. Yeah, deciding not to crowdsource content for microtransactions is a really difficult conclusion to arrive at. Grapplejack posted:I was thinking a cool gold outline on the select screen and the artists name on a placard on the side, like the csgo nameplates Yeah, that could be a huge issue. Those particular skins might be regarded as the most valuable. They wouldn't come out of safes, though, so safe value would be undermined. The good news would be that the artists would collect the vast majority of the profits off of his or her creation, but almost entirely to Overkill's disadvantage, I think. It would also disadvantage all players, since their safe drops would probably be less valuable. Or the ~~invisible hand~~ would decide that those skins are worthless. Merc, weigh in? Afraid of Audio posted:take a break Powerful argument.
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Jul 14, 2016 23:27
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half of the thread is business model poo poo, the other half is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpsbj0OoeNo
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Jul 14, 2016 23:28
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Magnetic North posted:I tried Anarchist for a while with my ICTV, and I think I'm just going back to Muscle. I get shredded by Snipers and Black Dozers when I used to be basically invincible. Anarchist actually works best for me with suitdodge, rather than heavy armor. Suit even feels better than LBV; with all the armor boosting skills, it's only 40 more armor, which feels like less of a benefit than additional dodge and not having to build for/around ballistic vests.
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Jul 15, 2016 00:00
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Yeah, that could be a huge issue. Those particular skins might be regarded as the most valuable. They wouldn't come out of safes, though, so safe value would be undermined. The good news would be that the artists would collect the vast majority of the profits off of his or her creation, but almost entirely to Overkill's disadvantage, I think. It would also disadvantage all players, since their safe drops would probably be less valuable. It'll probably be like how stat boot skins are now. They technically have more value since they are rarer, but since stat boosts are free on everything except legendaries, only crazy nutjobs or people extremely flush with money buy them. I know some folks who have bought some for guns they like in the hopes that Overkill will eventually go back and patch in StatTrak, but even these traders admit that they are insanely difficult to sell. So I can see it going the same way - nobody buys the exclusive artist ones except the people who really have a lot of money to throw around, especially since they're not going to look different, just have the artist's name attached or whatever in your Steam inventory.
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Jul 15, 2016 00:09
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UnknownMercenary posted:stat boot Overkill please add Stat Boots to increase our characters' health/armor/dodge/conceal/etc, tia Also yeah the lack of artist money kickbacks sucks but I can understand how the artist getting a share of the revenue would still be pretty piddly. A mint-condition stat-boost version of their own skin for free plus some DLC/mask codes of choice would probably be a reasonable compensation, though? I mean if they get nothing at all for designing a skin I'd be surprised.
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Jul 15, 2016 00:16
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I remember when Bethesda tried to set up a system to sell mods through Steam and the entire internet threw such a shitfit that Valve and Bethesda had to publicly apologize and roll back their plans. This is completely different though.
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Jul 15, 2016 00:35
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ClonedPickle posted:Overkill please add Stat Boots to increase our characters' health/armor/dodge/conceal/etc, tia From what I've seen floating around the Steam forums they are getting an exclusive mask when their item gets picked. Something a bit more substantial would be cool.
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Jul 15, 2016 00:52
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Discendo Vox posted:It's fine to play the game the way you want. Coolguye posted:you will pry my uncomplicated Muscle/ICTV build from my shredded, explosion-rattled hands On another note, I can't decide which I like better, a full-blown shotgun rear end in a top hat or an Oppressor bullet hose. Both are just so much fun. At any rate, sentry guns are my new favourite. I love leaving them in a nice covered corner next to a pile of hostages to murder any sneaky cops trying to free them.
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Jul 15, 2016 01:35
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THE CHORSE posted:I remember when Bethesda tried to set up a system to sell mods through Steam and the entire internet threw such a shitfit that Valve and Bethesda had to publicly apologize and roll back their plans. This is completely different though. It was a similar issue in that many of the mods being sold were either heavily based on other people's mods or straight up stolen meaning that many people were profiting off of other people's work. Also, people were putting in advertisements to buy their "premium" mods in their free ones. The entire thing was a complete clusterfuck that showcased that mods should never be monetized in any way. Hobold posted:Really how is this setup different from any other company that runs a 'contest' for people to submit things, that the company will then turn around and own, monetize, and give gently caress all to the creator? So yeah, we should just abolish capitalism and seize the means of production.
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Jul 15, 2016 02:29
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watho posted:So yeah, we should just abolish capitalism and seize the means of production.
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Jul 15, 2016 03:09
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shut up and click cops
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Jul 15, 2016 04:20
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watho posted:So yeah, we should just abolish capitalism and seize the means of production. Capitalists hate this one weird trick
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Jul 15, 2016 04:58
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Discendo Vox posted:It's a problem with no good solutions that won't enrage a frothing mass of babies. If people are gonna be babies either way then maybe don't do it at all or err on the side of 'paying artists' so that you're not objectively poo poo?
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Jul 15, 2016 06:02
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:If people are gonna be babies either way then maybe don't do it at all or err on the side of 'paying artists' so that you're not objectively poo poo? quote:Good luck with your depression! e: it's actually really, really egregiously weird that so many of you are choosing this as your hill to die on - it's pretty obvious none of you truly understand what you're asking or talking about, and why making this crap a requirement or not doing it at all would actually be a huge step back for everyone involved, including the artists. if asked i'm actually in a unique position to explain why this is. however, i am not making up any effortpost on any goony internet crusade without being asked, and if i'm asked you can't come back later and call me a sperg because you literally asked for my comment. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Jul 15, 2016 |
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Jul 15, 2016 06:09
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Coolguye posted:e: it's actually really, really egregiously weird that so many of you are choosing this as your hill to die on - it's pretty obvious none of you truly understand what you're asking or talking about, and why making this crap a requirement or not doing it at all would actually be a huge step back for everyone involved, including the artists. if asked i'm actually in a unique position to explain why this is. however, i am not making up any effortpost on any goony internet crusade without being asked, and if i'm asked you can't come back later and call me a sperg because you literally asked for my comment. Huh?
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Jul 15, 2016 07:13
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Coolguye posted:e: it's actually really, really egregiously weird that so many of you are choosing this as your hill to die on - it's pretty obvious none of you truly understand what you're asking or talking about, and why making this crap a requirement or not doing it at all would actually be a huge step back for everyone involved, including the artists. if asked i'm actually in a unique position to explain why this is. however, i am not making up any effortpost on any goony internet crusade without being asked, and if i'm asked you can't come back later and call me a sperg because you literally asked for my comment. lol
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Jul 15, 2016 07:15
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i don't feel you actually understand what you're talking about and i can explain why if you're actually interested but if it's going to be a shitshow then i don't care enough to type an effortpost is that more clear
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Jul 15, 2016 07:15
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Well, it's good that you managed to find a way to express how you're superior to people without having to explain why.
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Jul 15, 2016 07:17
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watho posted:Well, it's good that you managed to find a way to express how you're superior to people without having to explain why. what i'm reading here is "i don't actually care about anyone else's opinion on the matter and if you post yours i'm gonna make it a shitshow" glad we got that out of the way then, enjoy going around this mulberry bush for another few days
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Jul 15, 2016 07:18
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Coolguye posted:what i'm reading here is "i don't actually care about anyone else's opinion on the matter and if you post yours i'm gonna make it a shitshow" 
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Jul 15, 2016 07:20
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