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lamentable dustman posted:So has there ever been a worse planned coup in modern history before because this one seemed really badly planned, I would think you would want to be able to take the President in hand Paris Commune? Left-wing coups are generally incompetent though, worse right wing ones? I can't think of any
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Jul 16, 2016 04:22
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Warbadger posted:You really think the 2013 coup in Egypt was "Western Engineered"? Really? In 2009 I was around Egyptian generals as they trained at Camp Mabry in Texas. Hell yeah, I think that.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:22
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mcclay posted:I'm not sure they can fight a war if they can't hold a tv station. They may be shifting to strategic targets rather than information control targets as you would need to do in a civil war.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:23
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lamentable dustman posted:So has there ever been a worse planned coup in modern history before because this one seemed really badly planned, I would think you would want to be able to take the President in hand Coup foiled by tool of imperialist America - The iphone.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:23
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Warbadger posted:You really think the 2013 coup in Egypt was "Western Engineered"? Really? It got Western approval at the very least
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Jul 16, 2016 04:23
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icantfindaname posted:Paris Commune? Left-wing coups are generally incompetent though, worse right wing ones? I can't think of any wait, is this a coup from the left or right? they don't like the islamist stuff and want to genocide kurds harder
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Jul 16, 2016 04:23
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lamentable dustman posted:So has there ever been a worse planned coup in modern history before because this one seemed really badly planned, I would think you would want to be able to take the President in hand I mean considering how few supporters they seem to have had, they put up a pretty good show of force.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:24
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icantfindaname posted:It got Western approval at the very least There's a big difference between that and "Western-engineered" in the same way the 1953 Iran coup was.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:25
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And honestly, control of the TV stations isn't that important when the internet is still on.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:25
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Aliquid posted:wait, is this a coup from the left or right? they don't like the islamist stuff and want to genocide kurds harder Kemalists are secular nationalists, like Jacobins. Neither left nor right. Centrist I guess
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Jul 16, 2016 04:25
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The-Mole posted:RE guy above: yeah you're talking about bloodless coups moreso. A lot of the bloodier ones historically took longer to get things sorted, but they more often seemed to end in a dictator shot full of holes in the back of a truck. At some point, though, you really move from "Bloody coup" to "civil war". I will admit that it's a spectrum, but the entire point of a coup is supplant the government. Existing bureaucracies and officials recognize that you've won, and start marching to your tune. Yes, there may be fighting, lots of people may die, there may be purges afterwards, but there's still the same framework left behind that you continue using. When you hit the point that you're having to burn everything to the ground and rebuild the entire government from scratch, that is not a coup. When you get pushed into a long engagement with not-completely-unequal forces that both maintain control over large swathes of the country, that's not a coup.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:25
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icantfindaname posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat Your first example has zilch to do with installing a secular regime and all to do with preventing Iran from meddling in the profits of BP. Definitely turned out lovely though. Egypt has been a shitshow for so long that I'm not comfortable arguing for or against US involvement in the Morsi debacle, and since there were a grand number of non-secular interests involved in this coup it's not a great example. The US doesn't back coups for ideology, it backs them for ROI. Frequently, this has resulted in the backing/installation of distinctly non-secular governments, such as Afghanistan or Pakistan, or just the outright hard turbofucking of a nation such as Libya.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:26
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icantfindaname posted:Paris Commune? Left-wing coups are generally incompetent though, worse right wing ones? I can't think of any this was a left-wing coup, though. It's a tragedy for the entire region if it has failed.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:26
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lamentable dustman posted:So has there ever been a worse planned coup in modern history before because this one seemed really badly planned, I would think you would want to be able to take the President in hand The second coup attempt against Noriega was so bad that the U.S. actually had to invade outright because it was so embarrassing.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:26
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Iunno, I don't want to say there aren't dumber people, because there are always dumber people. Burkina Faso, it was a major gently caress up.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:27
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https://twitter.com/agirecudi/status/754153618387963904 https://twitter.com/agirecudi/status/754155015120515072 Still stuff happening in Istanbul
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Jul 16, 2016 04:27
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icantfindaname posted:Kemalists are secular nationalists, like Jacobins. Neither left nor right. Centrist I guess When they're up against Daesh fanboys like Erdogan, I'm pretty loving sure they qualify as the left in this particular conflict
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Jul 16, 2016 04:27
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Captain Bravo posted:A coup is not anything like a civil war or uprising or something like that. Comparing the two is like comparing cutting a man's head off to starving him to death. A coup succeeds or fails based almost entirely on how much it can get done in a very, very short amount of time. You have to snatch the head of the government, and immediately assert control over the remaining elements in a manner they can't resist, otherwise you just end up with Libya. The fact that A) Erdogan is still free and kicking, B) the state media apparatus is trumpeting 'attempted coup' and C) dozens of different government elements are saying they won't stand for the coup means that it has failed. This assessment from earlier when people were still treating Erdogan appearing via Facetime as a meme was really bang on the money: farraday posted:Not quite yet, it is a coup that has fairly wide military support, it will only start to fall apart when that support starts to fail. Erdogan handled the whole situation very well (e: from the perspective of "what's good for Erdogan", that is.)
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Jul 16, 2016 04:27
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things definitely picking up at the bridge. Almost constant gunfire.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:29
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soldiers stuck in a tank i nthe middle of a crowd at ataturk airport being arrested live: https://twitter.com/agirecudi/status/754155483062267905
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Jul 16, 2016 04:30
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Jagchosis posted:Burkina Faso, it was a major gently caress up. That's the one! Apparently the coup leader, who met the returning president at the airport to welcome him back, has been charged with very mild treason. 
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Jul 16, 2016 04:33
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My favorite coup story is how the Soviet hardliners in the 1991 coup broadcast on state TV footage of Yelstin giving an inspirational speech on a tank.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:33
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https://www.periscope.tv/Isocializm/1nAKEbvYkQXGL for people who don't have the link is the bridge with gunfire can't really tell whats going on but a ton of people heading towards the bridge with gunfire in the distance
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Jul 16, 2016 04:34
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It's morning. Facebook live has a guy tracking a trail of blood down a street. Fun.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:35
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Who were the coup leaders? Did they release any statement as to their impetus or goals?
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Jul 16, 2016 04:38
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The coup is staged.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:39
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Reason posted:https://www.periscope.tv/Isocializm/1nAKEbvYkQXGL for people who don't have the link is the bridge with gunfire can't really tell whats going on but a ton of people heading towards the bridge with gunfire in the distance Is it just me or is the Bridge Stream cut off? 
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Jul 16, 2016 04:39
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Another periscope live from I believe Ankara https://www.periscope.tv/w/1DXGylwvymdKM Crowds around a tank, there was some firing a minute ago but I think it was warning shots.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:39
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LeoMarr posted:The coup is staged. lol
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Jul 16, 2016 04:40
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Apologies if this has been posted already, but Holy poo poo. https://twitter.com/ismailsaymaz/status/754142882282569736?lang=en
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Jul 16, 2016 04:41
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 https://twitter.com/uumuutarslan/status/754130756574863360 so this happend.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:41
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Cirofren posted:Who were the coup leaders? Did they release any statement as to their impetus or goals? When they looked to have been successful they issued a statement saying the "Turkish Armed Forces have completely taken over the administration of the country to reinstate constitutional order, human rights and freedoms, the rule of law, and the general security that was damaged". Specific leaders are unknown but the attention seems to be focused on some guy called Muharrem Köse who was head of the military legal advice department.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:41
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Live on MSNBC the soldiers on the bridge are surrendering.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:42
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Dapper_Swindler posted:
Jesus.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:42
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Zohar posted:When they looked to have been successful they issued a statement saying the "Turkish Armed Forces have completely taken over the administration of the country to reinstate constitutional order, human rights and freedoms, the rule of law, and the general security that was damaged". Thanks. Been watching AlJaz but they're focusing on the bridge, Gulan, and Erdogan's statements of treason and clensing the army.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:43
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Whats the tweet? No way I am clicking it.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:44
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Patrick Spens posted:Apologies if this has been posted already, but Holy poo poo. What's happening here? Lots of people shouting, some Turkish soldiers being held by civvies and police, I can't tell much else
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Jul 16, 2016 04:44
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icantfindaname posted:What's happening here? Lots of people shouting, some Turkish soldiers being held by civvies and police, I can't tell much else Police trying to arrest soldiers from the coup, then being interrupted by an angry mob that wants to kill the soldiers.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:45
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lamentable dustman posted:So has there ever been a worse planned coup in modern history before because this one seemed really badly planned, I would think you would want to be able to take the President in hand the august coup in soviet union 1991 was pretty much as bad
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Jul 16, 2016 04:47
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cheesetriangles posted:Whats the tweet? No way I am clicking it. Tank ran over civilians icantfindaname posted:What's happening here? Lots of people shouting, some Turkish soldiers being held by civvies and police, I can't tell much else Cops trying to arrest surrendering soldiers and failing to keep civilians from mobbing the soldiers.
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Jul 16, 2016 04:47
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