CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > CanPol Megathread: Big Changus

leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

CLAM DOWN posted:

I lived in Vic for 6 years. It's a boring as poo poo city filled with the newly wed and nearly dead. Infrastructure, both transit and roads, suck rear end. Get ready to enjoy going to Vancouver on a regular basis because that's how bad Vic is. It's a gorgeous and fun place to visit, and be a tourist in, and arguably a student, but that's it.

I find mostly the opposite.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 05:25

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# ? May 15, 2024 13:34

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

yeah who knew you'd be deployed for anything you didn't agree with :shrug:

# ? Jul 18, 2016 05:32

infernal machines: Oct 11, 2012; we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

... sure but I get to pick the wars, right?

# ? Jul 18, 2016 05:35

Professor Shark: May 22, 2012

I've had friends go to Afghanistan and had the time of their lives, one guy ended up meeting his fiance there

# ? Jul 18, 2016 12:40

a primate: Jun 2, 2010

Professor Shark posted:

I've had friends go to Afghanistan and had the time of their lives, one guy ended up meeting his fiance there

Sounds like a blast!!

# ? Jul 18, 2016 13:26

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

a primate posted:

Sounds like a blast!!

# ? Jul 18, 2016 14:22

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

New Coke posted:

Well, I doubt most people knew they'd be deployed for something as counterproductive and idiotic as the second gulf war.

Based on what? America's long history of using its armed forces only as a last resort, for productive and well-reasoned purposes? :rolleyes:

# ? Jul 18, 2016 15:13

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

PT6A posted:

Based on what? America's long history of using its armed forces only as a last resort, for productive and well-reasoned purposes?

I think that was sarcasm, the SECOND gulf war.

Postess with the Mostest fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jul 18, 2016

# ? Jul 18, 2016 15:16

Fluffy Chainsaw: Jul 6, 2016; I'm likely a pissant middle manager who pisses off IT with worthless requests. There is no content within my posts other than a garbage act akin to a know-it-all, which likely is how I behave in real life. It's really hard for me to comprehend how much I am hated by everyone.

New Plan for a Strong Middle Class, p. 48 posted:

We will enact the recommendations of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

To support the work of reconciliation, and continue the necessary process of
truth telling and healing, we will work alongside provinces and territories, and
with First Nations, the M�tis Nation, and Inuit, to enact the recommendations
of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, starting with the implementation of
the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples

quote:

Justice Minister Jody Wilson-Raybould called the adoption of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People (UNDRIP) into Canadian law �unworkable� in a statement to the Assembly of First Nations today.

During a speech to the AFN�s annual general assembly in Niagara Falls this morning, Wilson-Raybould, a member of the We Wai Kai Nation in B.C., described a cut-and-paste approach to making UNDRIP compatible with domestic laws an overly simplistic and untenable method of protecting indigenous rights in Canada.

�As much as I would tomorrow like to cast into the fire of history the Indian Act, so that nations can be reborn in its ashes, this is not a practical option,� said Wilson-Raybould. �Which is why simplistic approaches such as adopting the United Nations declaration as being Canadian law are unworkable and, respectfully, a political distraction to undertaking the hard work actually required to implement it back home in communities.�

Wilson-Raybould and her colleague Indigenous and Northern Affairs Minister Carolyn Bennett have been the target of a campaign by NDP MP Romeo Saganash to have them support his private member�s bill, C-262, which calls for Canada to make UNDRIP Canadian law.

In May, both Wilson-Raybould and Bennett announced that Canada would no longer object to UNDRIP within the United Nations� fora that deal with indigenous rights issues and that they would adopt the declaration in Canada, within the confines of Canada�s constitution.

That caveat was interpreted by some � including Saganash � as a way for the government to step back from adopting UNDRIP as Canadian law as is.

The government would still have the option of building a stronger indigenous rights regime by building off existing protections for indigenous rights to self-government and land title. The federal government has been heavily criticized for protecting those rights in an uneven and acrimonious way for decades, often leaving indigenous groups no option but to take Ottawa to court.

On Tuesday, Wilson-Raybould signalled her government�s intention to build a made-in-Canada approach in building a stronger regime for indigenous land and government rights.

According to Wilson-Raybould, the government needs indigenous nations to step forward with ideas for legislation and policy that will eventually wipe out laws like the Indian Act.

�What we need is an efficient process of transition that lights a fire under the process of decolonization but does so in a controlled manner that respects where indigenous communities are in terms of rebuilding,� she said.

That approach is consistent with article 38 of UNDRIP, which says states will take the appropriate measures to achieve the ends of the declaration, said Wilson-Raybould.

These consultations are designed to help Ottawa first recognize indigenous peoples as nations, help facilitate a legislative transition and create a national reconciliation framework, she said.

In finer terms, that will mean the negotiation of modern treaties under new mandates, the negotiation of other types of arrangements that allow for indigenous decision-making and respecting the situations of rights-holders where historic treaties or no treaties yet exist, she said.

�This work will be controversial and it cannot take multiple generations,� she said.

In an interview this past May, INAC senior assistant deputy minister said the government sees Section 35 of the Constitution Act as the basis for an expansion of indigenous rights. That process includes dismantling laws that indigenous groups consider to have been unilaterally imposed on them like the Indian Act.

While Section 35 has been on the books for decades, Wild said Ottawa was changing its position by interpreting the law as a �full box of rights� rather than an �empty box of rights.�

The key distinction is that formerly the government allowed for section 35 rights to be defined gradually and often in adversarial settings like legal challenges, while now Ottawa wants to proactively build a set of policies and laws that define clearly what indigenous nations are entitled to under Canadian law.

At the time, Wild said that process goes hand-in-hand with a broader process whereby the federal government is asking indigenous peoples � some of whom are already organized as nations in a legal format and some of whom aren�t � to bring forward ideas on how to restructure policies and laws so that they align with section 35.

Wild described these talks with indigenous peoples as �exploratory tables,� and said they�re meant to provide input on how the government can improve relations in a diverse way considering the different stages of political development across the country.

The federal government sees the fundamental concept beneath section 35 and UNDRIP � which recognize the existence and rights of indigenous sovereignty before contact with European powers � as one and the same, said Wild.

That opens the door to Wilson-Raybould and Bennett being able to describe section 35-based reforms as in line with UNDRIP adoption, though this would be in a more roundabout way than the direct adoption Saganash has called for.

On Tuesday, Wilson-Raybould said that a gradual process of enacting new legislation and policy based on section 35 will eventually mean that UNDRIP will be �articulated� in law.

�Ultimately, the United Nations declaration will be articulated through the constitutional framework of section 35,� she said.

In reaction to Wilson-Raybould�s statements, Saganash asked in a tweet if the UNDRIP adoption announcement in May was just �smoke and mirrors.�

https://ipolitics.ca/2016/07/12/ottawa-wont-adopt-undrip-directly-into-canadian-law-wilson-raybould/

Yes Saganash, it was all smoke and mirrors. It could never have been anything but.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 16:23

cowofwar: Jul 30, 2002; by Athanatos

The whole point of the military is chain of command, you don't get to be a conscientious objector. You do what you're told where you're told to deploy.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 16:32

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Hahahaha a native Indian calling the undrip unworkable hahahaha

# ? Jul 18, 2016 16:43

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Fluffy Chainsaw posted:

Yes Saganash, it was all smoke and mirrors. It could never have been anything but.

NDP has every right to be salty, the Liberals just shifted their position to the NDP's reality based campaign platform.

quote:

An NDP government would invest $1.8 billion new dollars for First Nations education and ensure all federal government decision respect treaty rights, inherent rights and the principles in the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (UNDRIP), the party�s leader Thomas Mulcair said Wednesday.

You also don't need to go all the way back to the campaign to quote the liberals on UNDRIP, they got a standing ovation two months ago for adopting it "without qualification".

quote:

There's nothing frightening about adopting and implementing the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, Indigenous Affairs Minister Carolyn Bennett said Tuesday at the UN.

Bennett earned a standing ovation from a UN forum in New York by announcing that Canada is now a full supporter of the 2007 declaration, "without qualification."

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/05/10/carolyn-bennett-un-declaration-rights-indigenous_n_9887872.html

Conservatives: We can never turn UNDRIP into law, we don't support it.
NDP: We support the principles of UNDRIP
Liberals: We'll implement UNDRIP completely... no we won't.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 16:43

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

I mean, I get why the new statement is controversial (because election campaigns are bad places to make nuanced statements and the Liberals got elected by telling people what they wanted to hear and leaving the details to be worked out later) but Wilson-Raybould is just saying now what was obvious then to anyone who knew how international treaties work: it was always going to be necessary to adapt UNDRIP's implementing legislation to be compatible with the existing aboriginal rights framework (especially since most of that framework is based in the Constitution and its judicial interpretation, and :laffo:

at changing that), it was never realistic or workable to simply take the treaty and say "it's Canadian law now too, exactly as written at the UN."

Bennett's Big Announcement was just saying "we support the treaty and will implement the recommendations of the treaty in law" (as opposed to Harper, who refused to implement it), but part of what treaty implementing legislation MEANS is that the provisions of the treaty have to be maneuvered into the existing body of domestic law.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 17:22

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Dallan Invictus posted:

I mean, I get why the new statement is controversial (because election campaigns are bad places to make nuanced statements and the Liberals got elected by telling people what they wanted to hear and leaving the details to be worked out later) but Wilson-Raybould is just saying now what was obvious then to anyone who knew how international treaties work: it was always going to be necessary to adapt UNDRIP's implementing legislation to be compatible with the existing aboriginal rights framework (especially since most of that framework is based in the Constitution and its judicial interpretation, and at changing that), it was never realistic or workable to simply take the treaty and say "it's Canadian law now too, exactly as written at the UN."

That's a whole lotta words to say that the Liberals lie through their teeth.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 18:10

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Still being cautiously optimistic over here.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 18:18

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Meanwhile, the Liberals are still hedging their bets on banning asbestos even though the last asbestos mine in Quebec shut down years ago so there's not even any money left to be made exporting cancer third world poors.

In a related note, the new multi-zillion dollar children's hospital in Perth was just found to have asbestos in it after importing some sketchy as gently caress building materials from China. Good job, corrupt Western construction industries.

Theree was also an article about how the Liberals are totally going to put a national price on carbon at some point but there's only so much noncommittal mealy mouthed bullshit I can read in one day. I'm sure it will happen right after electoral reform, national childcare, pharmacare and social housing.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 19:51

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Haha where the gently caress is that scumbag bunnyofdoom

# ? Jul 18, 2016 20:01

Fluffy Chainsaw: Jul 6, 2016; I'm likely a pissant middle manager who pisses off IT with worthless requests. There is no content within my posts other than a garbage act akin to a know-it-all, which likely is how I behave in real life. It's really hard for me to comprehend how much I am hated by everyone.

eXXon posted:

Meanwhile, the Liberals are still hedging their bets on banning asbestos

quote:

Earlier this year, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced that Canada was at last �moving to ban asbestos� because �its impact on workers far outweighs any benefits that it might provide.� This welcome promise prompted fanfare from health advocates and vulnerable workers who know all too well how devastating that impact can be.

Mission accomplished, more like. What's the need of doing anything after you've won accolades?

# ? Jul 18, 2016 20:03

Fluffy Chainsaw: Jul 6, 2016; I'm likely a pissant middle manager who pisses off IT with worthless requests. There is no content within my posts other than a garbage act akin to a know-it-all, which likely is how I behave in real life. It's really hard for me to comprehend how much I am hated by everyone.

namaste faggots posted:

Haha where the gently caress is that scumbag bunnyofdoom

Getting wined and dined by lobbyists

quote:

In May � the latest full month of data � registered lobbyists reported almost 2,400 communications with MPs, Senators, Ministers and bureaucrats.

It�s the biggest number of lobbyist interactions in any month ever recorded, almost double the number in May during any year under the previous government.

And it wasn�t just May. Every month so far this year has set a record for lobbying.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2016/07/17/its-raining-lobbyists-in-ottawa

# ? Jul 18, 2016 20:07

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

loving hypocrite

# ? Jul 18, 2016 20:17

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

I'm not happy with the Liberals in general, but I will continue to support them because they piss CI off so effectively.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 20:30

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Even Al Jazeera is piling on today. Do we need to remind them that Trudeau is literally directing the great arc of history sweeping towards justice

quote:

Turns out, like many other media-manufactured portraits of Western politicians, the popular and agreeable caricature of Trudeau being promoted at home and abroad is a neoliberal mirage.

This past week, for example, Trudeau has been visiting Brussels and Eastern Europe, all the while eager to establish his tough, uncompromising Cold War warrior credentials with his NATO colleagues.

Without any debate, let alone the approval by Canada's parliament, Trudeau unilaterally announced the dispatch of a contingent of Canadian troops, fighter jets and other military hardware to Latvia to blunt what his media allies have described as Russian "aggression".

Not surprisingly, Trudeau's "assertiveness" was almost universally applauded by the same crowd of unrepentant, war-happy, Neo-con pundits who previously celebrated the calamitous invasion of Iraq with such giddy enthusiasm.

It appears that diplomacy has, once again, been foolishly dismissed in favour of dangerously bellicose posturing on a continent all too familiar with the disastrous human consequences of war.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/07/don-fooled-justin-trudeau-boy-heart-canada-160713071303349.html

# ? Jul 18, 2016 20:37

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Of course Andrew Mitrovica would be scare-quoting the idea of Russia's actions in Ukraine being "aggressive".

# ? Jul 18, 2016 21:26

A Typical Goon: Feb 25, 2011

Liberals playing to the crowd to get elected and then never following through on any promises to avoid controversy by shaking the status quo? Who could have seen that coming :rolleyes:

# ? Jul 18, 2016 21:48

Ambrose Burnside: Aug 30, 2007; pensive

Pixelante posted:

Sometimes BA Johnston plays Logans. That's always fun.

BA is the fuckin man. the voice of my generation

# ? Jul 18, 2016 21:59

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Trudeau is a pretty good demonstration of how Canadians crave a certain kind of government rhetoric but are far too lazy and indifferent to investigate whether that rhetoric in any way matches reality. Harper was hated not for anything he actually did but because he refused to pander to our most cowardly political tendencies, like our need to pretend we're a progressive liberal country on the international stage.

What's really remarkable is how completely the NDP misunderstood this situation. They saw the rightward drift of the countries and assumed that there was now an appetite for a principled form of fiscal conservatism with a tinge of social consciousness. But really this was a misunderstanding. Harper's base support fiscal conservatism because it hurts the unworthy, not because they actually care about deficits. And the soft Liberal vote that was in play in 2015 wanted someone like Trudeau who can make gentle cooing sounds at them while continuing the exact same fiscal and international agenda as Harper. Jack Layton could have been that figure but Mulcair, like an idiot, somehow thought people actually wanted a genuine fiscal conservative with a social conscience.

It'll be interesting to see how this electorate reacts when the next financial crash occurs.

Helsing fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Jul 18, 2016

# ? Jul 18, 2016 22:18

tagesschau: Sep 1, 2006; Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren.

Helsing posted:

It'll be interesting to see how this electorate reacts when the next financial crash occurs.

Prime Minister Clement

# ? Jul 18, 2016 23:42

Pixelante: Mar 16, 2006; You people will by God act like a team, or at least like people who know each other, or I'll incinerate the bunch of you here and now.

Ambrose Burnside posted:

BA is the fuckin man. the voice of my generation

I won a bet by saying BA can get laid. Was met with, "no loving way," and then bewilderment when he saw the rockabilly chicks in the front row trying to pet the poor guy.

# ? Jul 18, 2016 23:42

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Helsing posted:

That's a whole lotta words to say that the Liberals lie through their teeth.

I didn't see any actual lies posted - they said they would support it without qualification, and apparently that's true? They stopped objecting to it at the UN. It seems that's what that statement meant?

Next they'll enact it, but as stated, it won't be passing the draft treaty as a single law, for considerations of adapting it to existing structures and processes. It'll be piecemeal over time. Again, not a lie. Just not what you want.

# ? Jul 19, 2016 00:13

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

A Typical Goon posted:

Liberals playing to the crowd to get elected and then never following through on any promises to avoid controversy by shaking the status quo? Who could have seen that coming

Still, could have been worse, like playing to the crowd and *not* getting elected. Vive la Mulcairisme!

# ? Jul 19, 2016 00:17

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Helsing posted:

. Harper was hated not for anything he actually did

What the *gently caress* are you tripping balls on, son.

Long for census
Science censorship
Dictatorial PMO
Hiring idiotic sycophants
Veterans benefits
Gazebos
Etc
Etc

# ? Jul 19, 2016 00:20

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

His point is that nobody actually cares about any of that other than politics nerds and reporters, and he's right.

# ? Jul 19, 2016 00:32

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

I dislike Trudeau's mannerisms but the fact that he sold the country on a hugely discriminatory no young Muslim dudes refugee policy is awesome.

I still try to close my eyes and imagine how I'd feel if Harper were enacting the same policies and it can be annoyingly satisfactory.

Another point for the no dudes policy.
https://twitter.com/acoyne/status/755170128627720192

# ? Jul 19, 2016 00:47

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

THC posted:

His point is that nobody actually cares about any of that other than politics nerds and reporters, and he's right.

Based on the recent successes of pollsters and political parties alike, I'm not sure that anyone really knows what voters actually care about besides cognitive dissonance.

# ? Jul 19, 2016 00:59

Reince Penis: Nov 15, 2007; by R. Guyovich

tagesschau posted:

Prime Minister Clement

#Tony4PM

# ? Jul 19, 2016 01:11

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

eXXon posted:

Based on the recent successes of pollsters and political parties alike, I'm not sure that anyone really knows what voters actually care about besides cognitive dissonance.

Making _____ great again!

People want to be told that they're the best, and if their lives aren't perfect, it's because some external force is to blame, and by god we're gonna get rid of whatever it is (Mexicans, immigrants, the EU, etc.)

# ? Jul 19, 2016 01:26

Homeroom Fingering: Apr 25, 2009; The secret history (((they))) don't want you to know

THC posted:

His point is that nobody actually cares about any of that other than politics nerds and reporters, and he's right.

I'm sure people were lined up waiting for the polls to open so they could vote out Harper and get their precious long form census back.

# ? Jul 19, 2016 06:43

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Basically Canadians are too dumb to be laden with the privilege of democracy

# ? Jul 19, 2016 07:53

MikeSevigny: Aug 6, 2002; Habs 2006: Cristobal Persuasion

http://www.theprovince.com/news/national/98two+wheeler+preachers+sanctimonious+scolders+vancouver/12066830/story.html

quote:

A staff report delivered to city council this month recommends that any newcomer seeking a city parking permit in the West End be slapped with a 700 per cent fee increase. Current permit fees for existing residents are far too low, at $80 a year, explain city planners. Better to charge incoming residents at a �market rate,� which the city has determined to be $50 a month, or a punishing $600 a year.

%600 a year?! Living downtown will become unaffordable at this rate.

# ? Jul 19, 2016 08:37

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# ? May 15, 2024 13:34

MA-Horus: Dec 3, 2006; I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

80 bucks a year for a parking permit in Vancouver? Holy poo poo, that's amazingly cheap.

I'm looking at moving in with my girlfriend who lives in east end Toronto, a parking spot either in her building or street permit will be $texas, I'm sure.

# ? Jul 19, 2016 12:33

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