Zephyrine posted:

There goes my warp rigs

bonewitch posted:

Assuming my understand of server ticks is correct, you need an align time of x + 2ping <= 2.00s to be uncatchable. Tacklers need a lock time of x + 4ping <= 2.00s to be as close as possible to catch you.

Reasoning being: it takes two server requests to warp off (align start, align complete+warp) , and four server requests to catch you (lock start, lock end, tackle start, tackle complete)

Zephyrine posted:

That's what I heard but they got me at 1.8 which has never happened to me since Interceptors were made bubble immune.

bonewitch posted:

Of course it would still affect it. The timeline for warping is:

Press warp button->visually start aligning->server is notified of align, and responds with an all clear->server tick happens->align completes->server is notified of align complete->server tick happens->server gives the all clear to warp

If the time it takes for the server and your client to talk is longer than the difference of your align time and the server ticks, it'll push your actual, real world align time over the server tick and make you wait for the next one. Your actual align time is always your client align time + the time it takes for the server roundtrip for the initial align + the server roundtrip for the end of the align and beginning of warp. If this real world align time is over 2s, and the tacklers real world lock time (client lock time + 4x server roundtrips) is less than or equal to 2s, they will tackle you.

Zephyrine posted:

I thought the server just went with it as the last command I sent. Unless I did something to interrupt it.

I would be surprised if the server needed confirmation from my client to enter warp after the command was made.

Sort of like how the game has a 1 second delay to stop a module but no delay between cycles if the module is green.

bonewitch posted:

I'm not 100% on if your client needs to notify about completing align, but I do know that the server needs to notify the client when its clear to warp, which still requires at least 1/2 your ping time-wise.

Krogort posted:

It's more like 100-150 billions...

bonewitch posted:

Is Plex still a half decent investment? I have like 25b and don't plan on playing for at least a couple more months

bonewitch posted:

Is Plex still a half decent investment? I have like 25b and don't plan on playing for at least a couple more months

MorsAnima posted:

Do fighters not obey drone control range? I've just had a thanatos set fighters on me from well out of drone control range...

Landsknecht posted:

plex is pretty good

wyverns are also really cheap right now, so if you can get one sub 18bil it might play out well

LemonDrizzle posted:

Fighters can be sent to attack anything on grid, no matter how distant. It'll take them a while to reach anything more than 200 km away, however.

MorsAnima posted:

Do fighters not obey drone control range? I've just had a thanatos set fighters on me from well out of drone control range...

Landsknecht posted:

how are marauders for PVP?

I kinda think a paladin would be cool; can i put on t2 tachyons, a mjd, and bastion module and rip around lazering stuff?

ullerrm posted:

Finally, most people are smart enough to respond to seeing a marauder with "okay, keep them from warping out while we go get a ton of neuts."

LemonDrizzle posted:

In this context, it was very nice of ccp to provide us with ultra-tanky ships that can scramble targets from 40 km away, where they're well outside most marauders' peak damage range.

e: also deadspace neuts so it's now possible to make a curse that can neut at around 50 km without being a garbage heavy neut gimmick setup.

quote:

[Vargur, modern blood triple]

Damage Control II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Dread Guristas Co-Processor
Dread Guristas Co-Processor

Large Micro Jump Drive
Domination Warp Scrambler
Shadow Serpentis Heavy Stasis Grappler
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400
X-Large Ancillary Shield Booster, Navy Cap Booster 400

800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
800mm Repeating Cannon II, Barrage L
Bastion Module I
Corpum A-Type Medium Energy Nosferatu
Corpum A-Type Medium Energy Nosferatu
Corpum A-Type Medium Energy Neutralizer

Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II


'Augmented' Hammerhead x5
Warrior II x5


Republic Fleet EMP L x1200
Republic Fleet Fusion L x1200
Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L x1200
Barrage L x1200
Hail L x1200
Navy Cap Booster 400 x70
Nanite Repair Paste x300
Standard Blue Pill Booster x3
Standard Drop Booster x3
Mobile Depot x2
Warp Core Stabilizer II x4

Unfunny Poster posted:

That'll probably dip though. Most of the AT ships CCP have released are far better as a pair than on their own, meaning their value in the AT is now diminished which affects their price. Added that you rarely ever saw them outside the AT, and the ships will pretty much be unused inside it now as well save for the Etana which apparently is OK to use on its own in a comp without a mate.\

Edit - Also the other people are correct, making the AT ships widespread available for 2-3bil or whatever with their stats is stupid and bad for the game. CCP either need to stop doing prize ships (they won't since that's the main draw for teams to compete in the AT) or change the prize payout structure again (they did it 2 years ago) so that its less top heavy. Right now it's a lot better than it was during say AT10 when only 1st & 2nd place got the goods, which is why you'd see HYDRA try their hardest to fix matches so they could get 1st & 2nd place (only to get caught doing it twice ). They didn't care about winning the AT itself, they cared about getting the shitload of money off selling the AT ships etc.

Unfunny Poster posted:

Edit 2 - Oh and lol at the "PL welfare check" whinging people are doing. The AT payouts/winnings are pretty much isolated from the rest of PL's finances per the public reports PhalanxIII (PL's head finance dude until this year) put out on TMC. Running B0T was far more lucrative and integral to PL's overall needs than the AT was. That's what happens when you make a trillion ISK per month.

ullerrm posted:

Generally, they're kinda garbage. Since you're immobile while in bastion mode, you can basically only kill things that:

A) are stupid enough to stay in your tackle range
B) are too distracted by bloodlust to warp off

So, it basically means you have this cycle: Pick a fight with some pubs, kill as much as you can, then try to warp/MJD out. If they tackle you before you can get out, re-enter bastion mode and try again in a minute. Also, bastion gives you a weapon timer as long as it's active, and you don't tank well when outside of it, so you can't really tank and deaggress, unless the incoming DPS is low enough that you can tank it without the bastion module.

Finally, most people are smart enough to respond to seeing a marauder with "okay, keep them from warping out while we go get a ton of neuts." Basically the only marauder that doesn't melt under heavy neuting is the Vargur, because of the Godsblood triple XLASB fit. And even it will run out of cap charges eventually if it doesn't manage to clear tacklers.

Landsknecht posted:

marauders are decently fast though? How would one do in a 10man gang where you could do 1 or 2 cycles of bastion and just provide a lot of dps?

ullerrm posted:

On the contrary, they're slow loving pieces of poo poo.

A Vargur with a MWD and no speed mods = 991m/s, compared to 1124m/s for a Tempest with the same.
A Golem with the same is 912m/s, compared to 1001m/s for a Raven.
The armor marauders are even worse.

Bastion only boosts tank and makes you unjammable -- it does nothing for DPS. If you want a fuckton of DPS in a ten-man gang, bring a shield pulse Oracle.

bonewitch posted:

1.8s align time? Because most likely you had a lag spike or something that caused you to bump just over the 2.0s threshold. If you lag just enough to hit 2.01s, you won't actually warp (theoretically; it's be less depending on when the server tick falls) until 3.0s thanks to server ticks

ullerrm posted:

On the contrary, they're slow loving pieces of poo poo.

A Vargur with a MWD and no speed mods = 991m/s, compared to 1124m/s for a Tempest with the same.
A Golem with the same is 912m/s, compared to 1001m/s for a Raven.
The armor marauders are even worse.

Bastion only boosts tank and makes you unjammable -- it does nothing for DPS. If you want a fuckton of DPS in a ten-man gang, bring a shield pulse Oracle.

Landsknecht posted:

ok, I was more under the impression that they'd have some redeeming features but i guess not

bastion helps range though, doesn't it?

I guess it's time to stick to the machariel, or maybe even a nightmare

the barghest still looks very interesting, just because the layout seems to offer so many options

ullerrm posted:

But to be fair, that predates Fozzie. And personally, I appreciate his effort to make AT ships things that are good at general play and bad at tournaments

ullerrm posted:

Generally, they're kinda garbage. Since you're immobile while in bastion mode, you can basically only kill things that:

A) are stupid enough to stay in your tackle range
B) are too distracted by bloodlust to warp off

So, it basically means you have this cycle: Pick a fight with some pubs, kill as much as you can, then try to warp/MJD out. If they tackle you before you can get out, re-enter bastion mode and try again in a minute. Also, bastion gives you a weapon timer as long as it's active, and you don't tank well when outside of it, so you can't really tank and deaggress, unless the incoming DPS is low enough that you can tank it without the bastion module.

Finally, most people are smart enough to respond to seeing a marauder with "okay, keep them from warping out while we go get a ton of neuts." Basically the only marauder that doesn't melt under heavy neuting is the Vargur, because of the Godsblood triple XLASB fit. And even it will run out of cap charges eventually if it doesn't manage to clear tacklers.

Magic Rabbit Hat posted:

4th Horseman posted:

Doesn't it seem unfair that access to a competition for limited edition ships is limited to a draw, also you can use limited edition ships in that very competition? If the goal was to make it some sort of interesting premier pvp event showcasing the skill of pilots and comp choices theyve certainly gone about it the wrong way.

Unless AT has some other goal?

quote:

Obviously the role of unique ships in the AT has been a fairly controversial topic for a few years, and I think people have such different views partly because there's a couple different sets of competing goals involved in EVE tournaments. How you find yourself along each spectrum matters a lot here.

Firstly, the spectrum between normal esport patterns and the EVE sandbox.
The extreme version of normal esports would be running a tournament on a test server with free items, max skilled characters and no spying or "metagaming".
The extreme EVE sandbox side is essentially just normal EVE pvp, without limits on movement, ship types or player numbers.
Exactly where the AT should fall on this spectrum is a question we've been working through for years. It ties heavily into questions of how much we should restrict ISK spending in the tournament. There are plenty of advocates of both sides and some tournaments (such as EVE_NT Collides) are further towards the "normal esports" side of the spectrum since they take place on SISI.
The "pure esports" perspective on unique ships tends to be that they need to be restricted so that pure pvp skill can shine vs ingame wealth and alliance assets. The "EVE sandbox" perspective tends to be that unique ships represent a way for entire alliances to invest in their teams and that the economic shockwaves of expensive ships exploding creates gameplay value.

Secondly, the spectrum between the AT as a game system and the AT as a spectator event.
This one can be a bit hard to see sometimes since AT pilots themselves tend to fall on the "game system" side. Concerns about making a quality spectator event are the reason we tend to intentionally increase point values of very tanky ships. From a pure game system perspective it would be nice to get extra variety by lowering the point cost of ships like marauders, but we get spectator event value from encouraging faster-pace fights.
From a game system perspective it's easier to argue for banning or heavy restrictions for unique ships. They impact the results of matches somewhat by sitting outside the normal power/point curve.
From a spectator event perspective on the other hand, unique ships are pretty amazing. They make exciting viewing and memorable matches for the people at home. They are good focus point for hype from commentators and discussion of tactics. They provide a touchstone connecting each tournament with the history of the EVE universe.

For this tournament, we have decided to provide some extra restriction for unique ships to try and minimize the issues while preserving as much of their value to the event as possible.

Increasing the point values of unique ships was considered, but at the end of the day we think that increasing the point values would do more to reduce the number of matches that contain unique ships than restricting numbers. It's a bit subjective, but I believe that a match with X unique ships isn't X times as exciting as a match with one unique ship. Since these multi-unique setups are both hitting diminishing returns in excitement and provide the most obvious cases of overpowered impact, we decided to go with the "one per setup" rule. We hope that with this rule we'll continue to see unique ships brought out on the stream while keeping cheaper setups competitive.

LemonDrizzle posted:

Fozzie wrote a post explaining their reasoning here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6578343#post6578343


As for the draw, it sucks and I've tried to make the case that they should weight lottery entrants by alliance size to at least reduce the likelihood of alliances like GSF and Horde being excluded, if only because giving 20,000+ characters a home team to root for might help improve viewing figures a bit. However, they're limited in what they can do by the fact that the tournament organizers don't get a whole lot of support from CCP, so they don't have the time or resources to do pre-qualifiers or whatever for the main tournament.

4th Horseman posted:

Doesn't it seem unfair that access to a competition for limited edition ships is limited to a draw, also you can use limited edition ships in that very competition? If the goal was to make it some sort of interesting premier pvp event showcasing the skill of pilots and comp choices theyve certainly gone about it the wrong way.

Unless AT has some other goal?

Landsknecht posted:

to put it into context, winning an AT (and the associated ships) would give everyone on that team the option of injectoring a brand new titan pilot, buying and fitting a titan, and plexing the account for years to come

4th Horseman posted:

Doesn't it seem unfair that access to a competition for limited edition ships is limited to a draw, also you can use limited edition ships in that very competition? If the goal was to make it some sort of interesting premier pvp event showcasing the skill of pilots and comp choices theyve certainly gone about it the wrong way.

Unless AT has some other goal?