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OvineYeast posted:This was Tom Watson spreading poo poo fyi (according to Richard Seymour anyway) OvineYeast posted:Oops, sorry, got this wrong - that was the thing about him secretly wanting to resign but being stopped by McDonnell. He has made mistakes and performed badly, not just in a managerial sense with the PLP and shadow cabinet, but with his approach to the media, various gaffs, with his unwillingness to compromise on Trident (which he knows a large majority of the country, plus his own parliamentary party, are against him on), and with his generally unfocused and poor performances at PMQs. He's not admitted these publicly, and evidently not privately either considering the range of reports from within the PLP. Is he even aware, or is the bunker mentality so severe that he thinks every report of bad performance is just media bias? e: How does this work! New to the thread... uh... 361, the area code for a region of Texas known as Corpus Christi - also the name of our own Ed Milliband's college at Oxford! El Grillo fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 16:16
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El Grillo posted:As I said above, at least do something. If you're not doing something you are admitting defeat. If you're admitting defeat, gently caress off out of the leadership (i.e. make a deal with the PLP to get someone more competent/acceptable in) and stop tearing up the joint for the sake of it, or for the fear of losing the political shift which your only rival has already openly accepted was your greatest achievement. Ah yes, the old 'something needs to be done, this is something' strategy that's always so successful.
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Jul 29, 2016 16:17
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I don't see how you could think his stance on Trident is the wrong choice, it's just the unpopular one. Maybe Corbyn should start banging on about Tough Choices™? Would that help his electability?
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Jul 29, 2016 16:20
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El Grillo posted:Yeah, again I quite agree. But again, see above - if you have no media message then you are going to get painted no matter what happens. See the thing is though, it doesn't matter if it's only a minority stirring up trouble. Aside from the fact that the media has fixated on 'controversies' put out by the Tories, papers saying he didn't bow enough etc, it only takes one leak to set BAD CORBYN as the lead story on the evening news. And that can be timed to bury some other message that Labour are trying to put out. Any success can be turned into a failure by someone going 'look over there!' The problem is that the media is so open to these juicy stories, either because of a tabloid mentality or because Corbyn's enemies have connections, or because they just want to hurt Corbyn themselves. Having a media message is absolutely no guarantee you'll be granted the platform to put it out there And this isn't me saying everyone's undermining Corbyn at every turn, or that he's not hurting himself by refusing to play the game - lots of journalists were expressing frustration that they weren't getting the access and the soundbites they expected. But if they were genuinely interested in reporting political news to inform people of what Labour are up to, they could easily do it. Instead the infighting and whispers and staged resignations get the airtime, because they're exciting. The latter's a case in point - the exact plan for those resignations (one on the hour, every hour, in a media blitz after the EU ref) was reported two weeks earlier, so it was completely expected and blatantly staged. Every news report I saw treated it as some kind of shock unfolding drama, as MP after MP resigned in response to Benn being sacked, and none of them pointed out it was planned like this before that or the referendum happened. Which you'd think would be an interesting story in itself, instead they just went with the media narrative the PLP wanted. Weird huh?
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Jul 29, 2016 16:22
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baka kaba posted:The latter's a case in point - the exact plan for those resignations (one on the hour, every hour, in a media blitz after the EU ref) was reported two weeks earlier, so it was completely expected and blatantly staged. Every news report I saw treated it as some kind of shock unfolding drama, as MP after MP resigned in response to Benn being sacked, and none of them pointed out it was planned like this before that or the referendum happened. Which you'd think would be an interesting story in itself, instead they just went with the media narrative the PLP wanted. Weird huh? Also remember that Angela Eagle had registered her campaign website days before her "shock" resignation.
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Jul 29, 2016 16:29
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Crashbee posted:Ah yes, the old 'something needs to be done, this is something' strategy that's always so successful. WhiskeyWhiskers posted:I don't see how you could think his stance on Trident is the wrong choice, it's just the unpopular one. No he shouldn't start banging on about Tough Choices, he should have spent the past 9 months setting out, again and again, the clear economic alternative Labour is offering, and the bunch of lies and bullshit the Tories have been spewing since 2008 (or since 1979, take your pick). Every interview, every PMQs, every public appearance. Meanwhile, compromise (you know, like a political leader) on the issues which really aren't important to the electorate, instead of making them a gigantic issue, and confront allegations of abuse and threats of deselection with practical action, not just words. The Tories' economic fantasy land has literally been collapsing before our eyes over the past 9 months, and has no been binned altogether by the new PM. The leadership somehow barely managed to even begin to capitalise on this.
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Jul 29, 2016 16:29
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baka kaba posted:See the thing is though, it doesn't matter if it's only a minority stirring up trouble. Aside from the fact that the media has fixated on 'controversies' put out by the Tories, papers saying he didn't bow enough etc, it only takes one leak to set BAD CORBYN as the lead story on the evening news. And that can be timed to bury some other message that Labour are trying to put out. Any success can be turned into a failure by someone going 'look over there!' The problem is that the media is so open to these juicy stories, either because of a tabloid mentality or because Corbyn's enemies have connections, or because they just want to hurt Corbyn themselves. Having a media message is absolutely no guarantee you'll be granted the platform to put it out there Tesseraction posted:Also remember that Angela Eagle had registered her campaign website days before her "shock" resignation. But like you say, you have to play the game and he hasn't been for a while now. And if you're not going to do what's required, then what on earth is the point of you? In JC's case, he genuinely seems to believe he can get around the press by posting on social media, and by going round the country to Labour/Momentum rallies, and talking to local radio. None of that is going to make up for (a) the complete, continuous and undefended dismantling of him in the mainstream media (except for loving Diane Abbott occasionally being sent out to man the walls and accidentally setting fire to them) and (b) his inability in interviews to communicate a core message effectively and not come across as either a slightly affronted old dude, or an old dude who's not aware of the poo poo that's going on at all (this is even with friendly interviewers like Jones). e: sorry for the double post. For the record (got to go work now) I voted for JC and have no regrets as it was the only option. But, like Jones, I had and have no illusions as to his capabilities as a leader, and hope for someone better to carry on the policies (the economic side of which most of the PLP seem now to be on board with - and how could they not be, given austerity has effectively been abandoned as a political platform, and the neoliberal policies of the past 40 years are being drawn as a direct cause of Brexit?)
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Jul 29, 2016 16:46
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El Grillo posted:Yeah I'm not sure on Trident myself. I certainly prefer his principled position. Not sure how that helps in any way however? Unless you think the electorate can be swayed in the next few years by comrade Corbyn into believing they really don't need nukes after all. Heads up but 49% of the public favour scrapping the nukes.
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Jul 29, 2016 16:52
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Noxville posted:Heads up but 49% of the public favour scrapping the nukes. 52% on the other hand, magic number that.
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Jul 29, 2016 16:55
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El Grillo posted:But like you say, you have to play the game and he hasn't been for a while now. And if you're not going to do what's required, then what on earth is the point of you? In JC's case, he genuinely seems to believe he can get around the press by posting on social media, and by going round the country to Labour/Momentum rallies, and talking to local radio. Probably, but I'm not sure what else he can really do except try to find ways of reaching people without using the channels beholden to the propaganda wing of the Tory party.
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Jul 29, 2016 16:56
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El Grillo posted:No he shouldn't start banging on about Tough Choices, he should have spent the past 9 months setting out, again and again, the clear economic alternative Labour is offering, and the bunch of lies and bullshit the Tories have been spewing since 2008 (or since 1979, take your pick). Every interview, every PMQs, every public appearance. Meanwhile, compromise (you know, like a political leader) on the issues which really aren't important to the electorate, instead of making them a gigantic issue, and confront allegations of abuse and threats of deselection with practical action, not just words. He has literally been doing this, but the media doesn't report on it. There's an entire academic study on this poo poo out there, you might want to look it up before you keep retreading the same old poo poo argument for much longer.
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Jul 29, 2016 16:56
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feedmegin posted:The Norman conquest was rather famously in 1066. England was made a unified thing by this chap in 927AD - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%86thelstan - then briefly became part of a Scandinavian empire - you may have heard of Canute and his thing with turning back the waves, but it's more properly spelled Knut - then back to being its own thing before the Normans rolled on up. If things had gone otherwise we might still be culturally part of Scandinavia, social justice, high taxes and rotten fish for all! I might be thinking of the unified Kingdom of England not under Scandinavian rule then. I know the landmass and people were still here but we had lots of kingdoms before then.
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Jul 29, 2016 16:58
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OwlFancier posted:I might be thinking of the unified Kingdom of England not under Scandinavian rule then. Nope! It was unified before King Knut and also after him, that was a just one-reign oddity where the unified Kingdom of England was ruled by the same King who happened to rule Norway.
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Jul 29, 2016 17:00
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Guavanaut posted:I can almost understand the "if you don't pay, your child will get a minimum lunch", because they still need to eat, but it costs the school, so if you can afford to pay you should and if you can't you should get free lunches, and the free lunch system should be expanded, and gently caress academy chains, but what the gently caress is the isolation thing? If you can't pay then your child does not deserve to interact with other children? Have a look at a blog written by the deputy head: https://hackingattheroots.wordpress.com/author/barrynsmith79/ Demon Headmaster posted:On Thursday we took 120 kids from Wembley to Greenwich. It’s the second year running we’ve taken kids to the Observatory. This trip was like every trip at Michaela. The kids really shone. The guy marches a line of completely crushed and subverted unchildren through london, mistakes the general public's reaction of surprise and shock for admiration. Other highlights of this school are the rules forbidding talking in hallways, and at lunch time - "Family lunch" - there is both a mandatory canteen seating plan and a mandatory topic of discussion. With a defacto ban on making friends or any other normal form of human interaction, this place must crank out really hosed up kids.
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Jul 29, 2016 17:05
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feedmegin posted:Nope! It was unified before King Knut and also after him, that was a just one-reign oddity where the unified Kingdom of England was ruled by the same King who happened to rule Norway. Huh, I thought we had the heptarchy before that, or the... however many kingdoms there were-archy because I know there wasn't necessarily seven. Also: Tesseraction posted:Hwiccepedia  I almost want to become a historian just so I can write a book called that. It will be full of inaccuracies but worth it for the title.
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Jul 29, 2016 17:05
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El Grillo posted:What are you suggesting, that he just sits on his arse and sulks like he has been? Has that been effective so far? Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's a few things he could do other than going straight to resigning. For example, maybe he could be interviewed by a friendly journalist, Owen Jones perhaps, which could then be put up on Youtube.
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Jul 29, 2016 17:07
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HorseLord posted:Have a look at a blog written by the deputy head: Why the gently caress does that read like someone writing about the hitler youth rather than a loving school?
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Jul 29, 2016 17:08
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OwlFancier posted:Huh, I thought we had the heptarchy before that, or the... however many kingdoms there were-archy because I know there wasn't necessarily seven. We had the heptarchy and the pentarchy. Then the Danes invaded and took over a fair portion of the north for some time, then Alfred the Great and his relatives spent a fair while driving back the Danes and united England then Knut conquered England. Knuts sons inherited the country but only managed to hold onto England for a few years and then when Knuts son Harthaknut died the English elected Edward the Confessor.
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Jul 29, 2016 17:13
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El Grillo posted:
Reforming the labour party is more important than letting owen smith lose a ge. If your alternative is win neoliberal its not worth listening to.
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Jul 29, 2016 17:14
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HorseLord posted:Have a look at a blog written by the deputy head: This place sounds like a hellhole lmao https://hackingattheroots.wordpress.com/2016/03/05/mental-health/ quote:If kids break the rules twice in a lesson, this could be fiddling with your pen and then later on turning around to smirk at a mate, they’ll get a detention. Guaranteed. No escape. No doubt. No uncertainty. No ‘stress’. quote:The real scourge of society isn’t the supposed epidemic of mental health issues.
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Jul 29, 2016 17:17
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SpaceCommie posted:David Malone is an old friend of my Dad, they used to work filming documentaries together. He said he was going to be running for leader but I never thought he'd actually go through with it. He tried to convince me to join the Greens shortly before the last GE and we spent an entire evening discussing their opposition to GMOs. Can't say whether he'd be a good leader, but he does seem to be committed to leftist ideals and science. Me too. It really was excellent. The key point I think is that we need to find some key slogans and keep banging on about them. That's how the narrative is controlled - not by being right, but by being loud. We have to be both right AND loud about economics.
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Jul 29, 2016 17:19
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OwlFancier posted:Why the gently caress does that read like someone writing about the hitler youth rather than a loving school? Read more like The Midwich Cuckoos to me.
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Jul 29, 2016 17:28
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Someone posted a few pages back about Labour potentially losing their position as the official opposition. Losing short money might be bad but in a democratic system why the gently caress do we have an official opposition? It's the most overt way I've seen Westminster say ”gently caress you all it's a two party system. you can have plain salt or sugar, and if you try to sneak some spices into the recipe well you're just gonna get salt.” I mean who would they replace Labour with? Would they split the short money between the Lib Dems and UKIP or what?
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Jul 29, 2016 17:36
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Holy gently caress What Did I Just Read About Schools posted:projecting beautifully
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Jul 29, 2016 17:37
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OwlFancier posted:Why the gently caress does that read like someone writing about the hitler youth rather than a loving school? I like this: hell comprehensive posted:I really don’t like all this talk of ‘intolerable pressure’ and ‘stress’ on school kids. It's actually remarkable, they've locked the place down so tightly that the kids aren't actually allowed to be human beings at all. On the outside they are forced to act as unfeeling, unblinking and interchangeable robots. What is going on inside their heads cannot be expressed, no problems can be seen or heard. Since the problems are unseen, the School staff declare they do not exist. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 17:37
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Verizian posted:Someone posted a few pages back about Labour potentially losing their position as the official opposition. Losing short money might be bad but in a democratic system why the gently caress do we have an official opposition? Once upon a time I believe Her Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition was considered an important facet of the government, their charge being to act as a check on the ruling party and force them to hold their policies to account before their peers. Nowadays, well... Not so much.
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Jul 29, 2016 17:39
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HorseLord posted:Have a look at a blog written by the deputy head: Can't believe it as someone who's regularly involved in school trips I've never seen anything like that in my experience there's a lot of counting kids every few minutes asking them why they have stopped holding their partners hand, why they are not in a line or why one of them has stopped walking to stare at the ground or something. Admittedly I work with years R to 2 and severely autistic children so a different kettle of fish I guess. The thing is you dont want to stifle individuality and creativity but you do need order and rules to make a classroom function and trips is something else altogether the idea of having to take kids on trip across the London underground gives me heart palpitations.
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Jul 29, 2016 17:39
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HorseLord posted:I like this: Sometimes I really just want to sit someone down and box their ears until either they see sense or they lose the ability to spout bollocks.
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Jul 29, 2016 17:41
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OwlFancier posted:Sometimes I really just want to sit someone down and box their ears until either they see sense or they lose the ability to spout bollocks. quote:Corridors and lesson change overs are silent. Pupils walk in single file. Your daughter will be completely jewellery and make-up free. Don't worry about your kids not making friends; we banned it anyway.
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Jul 29, 2016 17:47
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I get the feeling they select very strongly for kids who are already well behaved and easy to push around
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Jul 29, 2016 17:47
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I get the feeling the guy writing the blog probably diddles himself thinking about his orderly students.
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Jul 29, 2016 17:48
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Well there was a lot of talk about impressive ejaculation in that blog
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Jul 29, 2016 17:50
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Thinking depression is just an everyday emotion and you just need to shake it off is a key indicator of someone being an enormous bellend.
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Jul 29, 2016 18:04
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Verizian posted:Someone posted a few pages back about Labour potentially losing their position as the official opposition. Losing short money might be bad but in a democratic system why the gently caress do we have an official opposition? e: wiki actually says the name at least came into being prior to the two-party system, in the 19th century. First Shadow Cabinet was under Gaitskill from '51; it was established to help oppose the Churchill government's policies as per the above. El Grillo fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 18:06
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Not Operator posted:Thinking depression is just an everyday emotion and you just need to shake it off is a key indicator of someone being an enormous bellend. To be fair, depression is a normal, everyday phenomenon many people experience, but yeah, trivialising it as just being a bit moody is way off the mark.
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Jul 29, 2016 18:18
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They should have come up with a new term for clinical depression.
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Jul 29, 2016 18:31
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Zohar posted:This place sounds like a hellhole lmao Jesus loving Christ. I am utterly staggered at this Victorian era attitude to mental health. gently caress me sideways. I know that people with these views exist but the idea that one of them could be in charge of a school? Despite clearly lacking any basic empathy or, gently caress man, a basic understanding of modern psychiatry. And I mean basic, I mean the sort of idea you get from a quick Google rather than years studying the subject. I'm so angry. And of course a Tory MP is Chair of Governors of this hellish throwback nightmare. Never have I been gladder that Academies & Free Schools are not a part of the Scottish education system. Good grief. How did it ever get to this? Another glorious legacy of the Coalition. Take a bow Danny Alexander & pals you loving bastards. Jippa posted:They should have come up with a new term for clinical depression. They have. It's Major Depressive Disorder. Or do you mean we should call it something else without the D word, sort of like how manic depression became bipolar disorder? Cheery oval office Disorder perhaps? forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 18:34
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I agree with him on one point, I think a lot of modern mental health problems are a social problem rather than an individual one. Or maybe I'm agreeing with Foucault and Smail rather than that spunkdrizzle, because if anything systems of power that deny their own overt existence and then blame individuals (or brains) for the failings of that system are about the worst way of dealing with it.
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Jul 29, 2016 18:41
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Spangly A posted:Reforming the labour party is more important than letting owen smith lose a ge. If your alternative is win neoliberal its not worth listening to. I have no idea whether Smith would lose a GE or not, but we can say with as much certainty as it's possible to say, that JC will lose a GE. His polling is completely dire, especially personally vs. May. Crashbee posted:Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's a few things he could do other than going straight to resigning. For example, maybe he could be interviewed by a friendly journalist, Owen Jones perhaps, which could then be put up on Youtube. Cerebral Bore posted:
If he really had done the kind of things I set out in your quote, I wouldn't have a problem. It would be the PLP who were entirely to blame, instead of only partially as it is now. Jeremy hasn't done any of those things though - he hasn't been hammering home a single, clear economic message at every opportunity (if he had, presumably McDonnell in his recent Oxford speech wouldn't have put so much emphasis on that needing to be done; someone posted about this above) and he hasn't been making the necessary compromises and active moves against abuse which would have been at least a practical effort to unite the PLP around him. Tesseraction posted:Probably, but I'm not sure what else he can really do except try to find ways of reaching people without using the channels beholden to the propaganda wing of the Tory party. Even so, I think with an effective communications strategy you have at least a chance to use the media to get your message out. It just requires a single, strong and well-justified position, e.g. austerity was provably complete bullshit, has utterly failed and (extraordinarily) now been completely abandoned, we need investment and a real industrial strategy to revitalise the downtrodden areas which so heavily voted for Brexit due to decades of economic neglect. El Grillo fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jul 29, 2016 |
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Jul 29, 2016 18:49
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Guavanaut posted:I agree with him on one point, I think a lot of modern mental health problems are a social problem rather than an individual one. I dunno. Is there a rise in mental health problems in the 21st century or are we just a whole lot more comfortable about talking about them than we used to be? And I'm saying that despite the fact that it is still incredibly hard to actually talk about it. I'd like to blame it on modern capitalism & the consumerist society we've created, where we judge ourselves by unreasonable standards of popular culture & so forth. Maybe it's a bit of both. Not done the research to say with any confidence. I certainly don't think the solution is reverting to 19th century attitudes to mental health problems, especially with teenagers though like this douche nozzle seems to suggest. Teenage years would be stressful enough with all the hormones & poo poo without having to deal with school & exams & what feels like having to decide what you want to do for the rest of your life when you really haven't grown much past the point of "I want to be a footballer when I grow up". Throwing a Head with attitudes like that on top just seems barbaric. I do know that taking some pills created by Owen Smith's former employer which does something with my brain chemistry make the negative feelings come around a lot less often though. (Not that Smith should get any credit for it obviously, if Pfizer hadn't created sertraline and instead we had a well funded state run medical R&D department someone else would have created something like it.)
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Jul 29, 2016 18:51
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