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Kikas posted:I literally haven't played Bomb: Forest since they added Day/Night, I've had no idea night can happen there. I guess it means that there are no civilians, right? That sucks, that cheevo is a real bitch to get anyway, no need to get hosed out of an attempt by a coin toss. It still spawns the two road civilians, to lure you into a false sense of hope. You can still die from falling/jumping downhill, yes. The bomb heists are magical. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Aug 3, 2016 |
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Aug 3, 2016 17:34
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Huh. I didn't even know they added a night version of that. Hate that heist. Missing almost every achievement from it, due to giving up after desync repeatedly hosed over the "don't let the cops touch poo poo" one.
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Aug 3, 2016 17:53
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What's the achievement? I did that heist once when it came out and never touched it again. I'm so far behind on achievements but slowly working my way through by knocking out the easy ones. e: When I stopped playing I was 3 or 4 achievements from 100%, and now suddenly I'm at 60% 
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Aug 3, 2016 18:32
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Renegret posted:What's the achievement? Finish the Bomb: Forest heist without letting any civilian flee or die, having at least five civilians in the heist, while escaping with the boat.
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Aug 3, 2016 18:40
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maswastaken posted:Oppressor ew so it sounds like it's RNG to even get 5 civilians in the first place? And the cops are going to free when while you make your escape probably. I really didn't like the bomb heists so I don't remember them all that much.
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Aug 3, 2016 18:55
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Actually that doesn't sound so bad right now if you take Stockholm Syndrome aced, since the civs won't leave if rescued. You'll just have to be extremely careful with your shots. Before the skill revamp that sounds like a nightmare, though.
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Aug 3, 2016 19:03
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It actually isn't that bad anymore. As long as it isn't night you've got the 5 you need. They've got some annoying pathfinding issues to get them all together, but turrets are great now, Stockholm Syndrome prevents them from fleeing if freed and you've got the ability to get more cable ties to lock them down with. Plus there's no difficulty requirement, so you can do it on Normal. It used to be way more annoying, now it's just minor RNG and having a build prepared.
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Aug 3, 2016 19:03
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My problem is that I insist on protecting our civilian bunkers with trip mines. ...because it's really funny.
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Aug 3, 2016 19:08
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Renegret posted:so it sounds like it's RNG to even get 5 civilians in the first place? It's just getting the daytime version so you can just restart until you get it. Because it's a one-day it isn't too onerous above and beyond how onerous you consider Forest to be. It's been a while since I've done the achievement but it wasn't too much of an issue to keep the cops from grabbing them. Have some of your team secure all the bags, others keep an eye on cops trying to free hostages. Once the escape is active, run fast.
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Aug 3, 2016 19:11
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They had changed something about it and I think you need to maybe do it on Overkill to get all five civilians? I remember trying to get some friends the chievo and it just wasn't happening. We could never find all five playing on normal or hard. We even went to suit builds and covered as much ground as we could including the log bridge to the lumberjack.
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Aug 3, 2016 19:24
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Psion posted:It's just getting the daytime version so you can just restart until you get it. Because it's a one-day it isn't too onerous above and beyond how onerous you consider Forest to be. That's pretty much it, yeah. The achievement was also made a lot easier since the skill revamp, and it's definitely something you want to do on normal.
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Aug 3, 2016 19:25
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Psion posted:It's just getting the daytime version so you can just restart until you get it. Because it's a one-day it isn't too onerous above and beyond how onerous you consider Forest to be. if you can do it on normal I don't see what the big deal is. Just have the host have a little pow-wow with the hostages while everyone else does the heist. I'm going to see if my buddy wants to do it tonight just because
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Aug 3, 2016 19:38
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averox posted:They had changed something about it and I think you need to maybe do it on Overkill to get all five civilians? I remember trying to get some friends the chievo and it just wasn't happening. We could never find all five playing on normal or hard. We even went to suit builds and covered as much ground as we could including the log bridge to the lumberjack.  two civs by the car, three guys in orange vests up in the hill area. Seems consistent to me, but I admit I haven't played Forest in a while now. if you really want to do it easy-mode bring turrets and put them on the roof of the car. Bring all the civs down there and get them tucked up under it, have yourself a little no-enemy zone. optionally, make sure to use a frenzy build to make it Ultimate Easy Mode. Fair warning, this may make you question your life choices to date, it's so easy.
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Aug 3, 2016 19:38
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Getting the silent alarm asset is nice for buying more time to get the civvies in a big
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Aug 3, 2016 20:07
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I did the hostage bullshit like I did all other bullshit "don't let cops do x" cheevs: on normal and with full sentry build. Back then that was pretty much the only function of sentries; area denial for some very specific small areas in certain heists so you could have a small message pop up in the lower right corner. Now with the new sentries it should be even easier.
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Aug 3, 2016 20:50
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averox posted:They had changed something about it and I think you need to maybe do it on Overkill to get all five civilians? I remember trying to get some friends the chievo and it just wasn't happening. We could never find all five playing on normal or hard. We even went to suit builds and covered as much ground as we could including the log bridge to the lumberjack. Has to be daytime- otherwise you just get the two civilians by the car, I believe. I just asked Long Guide author, we'll see what the cause is. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Aug 3, 2016 |
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Aug 3, 2016 21:11
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Dr Cheeto posted:Getting the silent alarm asset is nice for buying more time to get the civvies in a big Yeah, I guess, if you're not a WINNER winners don't use drugs, and .. uh ... silent alarms ... are drugs I sorta lost track of this one
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Aug 3, 2016 21:32
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John Murdoch posted:When I think of sliders I would want to tweak, it's less accuracy, damage, or health that I have in mind and more stuff like spawn size, respawn times, special spawn rates (including whether certain specials spawn at all), objective timers, etc. I don't see a problem with these as ways to modify difficulty. Hell, given the current balance state, they'd also be straight up Fun Enhancers. And some people like slamming their face into a door a lot. if they want aimbot railgun blue SWAT, let them. preferably far, far away from me. I guess if we're assuming a hypothetical world where Overkill really cracks the door wide open to difficulty customization, if you and I get the type of sliders here, presumably it would not be that much more difficult to do the other type either? Having poked around in the lua some myself, modifying enemies to be Hell SWAT appears to be easier than modifying spawn wave conditions. That said, both are possible, see that Deathwish Plus mod if you really hate yourself. which is also a convenient example of how "just because it's harder doesn't make it better" is a universal truth Psion fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Aug 3, 2016 |
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Aug 3, 2016 21:35
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Cripes, LGL... :facepalm: From one of the other script-readers:quote:Looking at the script, all 5 civilians are always spawned, the construction workers have a longer delay though (spawned a little over 20s in). If I'm understanding it correctly, this means you have to wait on the loadout menu for 20 seconds- otherwise the game won't spawn the civilians into the map, which is being set up in the background. The delayed background load thing was originally some sort of necessary way of handling the order of operations when the game loads a heist. This was also the source of a few bugs in launch maps (and in Golden Grin) in the past, especially one involving the number of bags on Rats. The delay was usually like 2 seconds, though, not 20. Based on the achievement's language, that seems deliberate. Ugh. edit: the person who helped me is also an author of the big Kotor II cut content mod! Small world. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 00:16
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bbcisdabomb posted:Actually that doesn't sound so bad right now if you take Stockholm Syndrome aced, since the civs won't leave if rescued. You'll just have to be extremely careful with your shots. It was, but the most annoying part was that the achievement was broken on the first day which is why I'm never in a rush to immediately get cheevs when they come out.
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Aug 4, 2016 04:08
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Psion posted:I don't see a problem with these as ways to modify difficulty. Hell, given the current balance state, they'd also be straight up Fun Enhancers. And some people like slamming their face into a door a lot. if they want aimbot railgun blue SWAT, let them. preferably far, far away from me. That was my point - modifying raw stats is much easier but is also my least favorite way of increasing difficulty. Not having those stat sliders at all if we had the rest would be silly, but just stat sliders would be lame. Frankly, as a mod or a fully free-form and optional "do whatever you want" bonus 007 mode, I wouldn't care in the slightest what people did with it. It's once it tips over into a full-blown static DW+ mode with inflated stats and reward structures slapped onto it that I go noooooo thank you.
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Aug 4, 2016 05:39
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oh I don't think any modifiers should change reward structure. Nah, that's just open to absurdity. Play the modified version because you want to, not because it gives more money/xp/nonsense. Rewards should be locked to the standard n/h/vh/ovk/dw progression. like if you play a "base difficulty" of Overkill and tweak it, you still get base Overkill level rewards. Or if there are any modifiers, it's negative only - like say you do Overkill No Tasers No Cloakers 50% shields, you get a percent hit at the end like you do if someone's in custody.
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Aug 4, 2016 05:54
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Question: are perk decks still necessary to have a functioning (not optimal, functioning) dodge build?
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Aug 4, 2016 07:26
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That's kind of like asking if skills are required to complete heists in stealth. No, but it increases the difficulty considerably.
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Aug 4, 2016 07:43
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Laputanmachine posted:I did the hostage bullshit like I did all other bullshit "don't let cops do x" cheevs: with sam
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Aug 4, 2016 07:52
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With the ability to add custom cops becoming available, I realized cop spawn code is completely incompatible with running multiple custom cop mods at once. So, I wrote a design document for custom cop spawning code that supports this and much more. http://pastebin.com/SgZPfmB8 What do you guys think?
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Aug 4, 2016 11:03
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Discendo Vox posted:Question: are perk decks still necessary to have a functioning (not optimal, functioning) dodge build? Define functioning. If you're asking if you could run suit+Sneaky Bastard and have enough dodge to survive on Overkill, probably? You'd be pretty sub-optimal and taking cover a lot more often, but Overkill survival isn't that tough. DW, absolutely not unless you're both drat good and drat lucky.
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Aug 4, 2016 17:41
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Discendo Vox posted:Question: are perk decks still necessary to have a functioning (not optimal, functioning) dodge build? With the base dodge levels reduced so much and the percentage gained from skills lowered, I'm of the opinion that you need a deck like Crook or Rogue just to bring the dodge chance up to a level where you actually notice it functioning at all, and the extra dodge from Rogue is only minimally higher than Crook at the expense of far less armor. I don't really have much luck at all trying to run a dodge build on Death Wish using other perk decks like Grinder or Ex-President (which gives +25% dodge!). So basically, the only practical functioning perk deck option for dodge builds at this point is Crook. I know in their minds they thought they were bringing dodge down to the level of armor, but in reality they just made dodge not worth the hassle were it not for the Frenzy Ace bug that's I guess now not a bug. The difference between "optimal" and "functioning" therefore just means if you want Sneaky Bastard on top of that, and no way am I parting with my Breaker/Locomotive combo or DMR kitted ARs/China Puff for an extra 10%. Daryl Surat fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 17:47
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Discendo Vox posted:Question: are perk decks still necessary to have a functioning (not optimal, functioning) dodge build? Now that I can make informed decisions and understand the game better (but not necessarily as ace as some of you guys that are XXV-100), I will never run a dodge build because I would rather have health regen than dodge. Even without Anarchrist I will run a LBV and Muscle, Grinder, or Crook so I have my mobility. I'll make sure I am not spending too much time in the open and will shoot more cops than cops shoot me. I see no reason to run a dodge build or use Sneaky Bastard instead of other much better options.
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Aug 4, 2016 18:21
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Bort Bortles posted:I just started playing the game right before the skill revamp. Before I knew that Health Regen was a thing I went straight for Rogue to go dodge because I love being mobile. Before Anarchist, I was a pure ICTV guy. Dodging's just not consistent, even before the skill revamp. Sometimes 2 snipers shoot you and both were dodged and sometimes that's it and you're down. I like being able to gauge realistically how much punishment I can get away with taking in the near future and dodging is a mechanic that works against that. Anarchist/Ace Frenzy LBV is perfectly DW-viable at -5 dodge nowadays though. This part's anecdotal, but I also swear saiga dozers got less mean in the skill revamp. Even on deathwish it just doesn't seem like they can any-range-death-gaze me anymore. Could be the gun adjustments wound up nerfing em? Are their gun stats based on ours? Skull dozers too for that matter, I mean sure it's easier to face-gently caress any dozer post-skill revamp cuz we do higher damage in general but it also seems like they're just not dealing out the damage like they used to.
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Aug 4, 2016 18:49
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Frenzy ace is a broken skill that combos incredibly well with Anarchist, you can staple it on to literally any dumpster build and it'll work. Saigadozers definitely got a nerf, taking a 40% hit to their damage. Dr Cheeto fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 18:59
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Daryl Surat posted:So basically, the only practical functioning perk deck option mmmm lemme just insert a "for you" into that statement, because I successfully run a suit ex-presidents build on DW regularly. It's completely viable, and better than Grinder or Crook in my view. An important part of its success for me, though, is this: Ex-pres gives you health battery points for your kills but also teammate kills. If your teammates are aggressive spawn-destroying Crime Wizards, you are flat out more survivable. I do acknowledge part of my success in using ex-pres is a unofficial, team-wide competition for most kills per heist, every heist. oh and bring upgraded FAKs for yourself. Those are really good for any dodge-type build, not just ex-pres, because they provide what amount to 14 saves per heist against the RNG rolling maximum gently caress-you. Psion fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Aug 4, 2016 |
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Aug 4, 2016 19:02
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The question is way too vague. Yes, you can have a build with non-zero dodge without a perk deck. Yes, you can survive heists with such a build. But that's a very low bar to clear, and is based more in player skill than anything else. Might help to know why you're asking.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:02
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skulldozers were never as threatening as saiga dozers on DW; they've never really been a threat aside from having a sweet skull painted on their mask. I mean those KSPs are mean, but they're no "down you in 0.14 seconds" Saigadozers of old.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:03
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Psion posted:skulldozers were never as threatening as saiga dozers on DW; they've never really been a threat aside from having a sweet skull painted on their mask. I mean those KSPs are mean, but they're no "down you in 0.14 seconds" Saigadozers of old. Oh yeah, definitely true, but if you're trying to close the distance to face-gently caress one, a Skulldozer could still once be bad news. Now it seems like I'm a cloaker and they can't stop my charge. EDIT: When I say "face-loving a dozer" I mean putting a krink into the hole in their visor and holding the trigger down. They don't like that.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:12
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Considering removing perk decks for Death Vox. It sounds like it would disproportionately effect dodge builds, so it's almost certainly a no go for now.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:23
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Discendo Vox posted:Considering removing perk decks for Death Vox. It sounds like it would disproportionately effect dodge builds, so it's almost certainly a no go for now. That would produce a reversion to pre-perk deck gameplay, yes. Everyone in ICTV again. If you were to allow DV to apply some modifications to skills, you could roll extra dodge into relevant skills.
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Aug 4, 2016 19:38
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Also, give everyone the headshot damage bonus and Fast and Furious so I don't have to gently caress with my breakpoints
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Aug 4, 2016 19:43
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Discendo Vox posted:Considering removing perk decks for Death Vox. It sounds like it would disproportionately effect dodge builds, so it's almost certainly a no go for now. Why? If it's because Anarchist/Frenzy is broken, that's a problem with that specific combination - not a problem with perk decks in general.
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Aug 4, 2016 20:00
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Shooting Blanks posted:Why? If it's because Anarchist/Frenzy is broken, that's a problem with that specific combination - not a problem with perk decks in general. Vox has an aversion to fun and thinks tedium=difficulty, is why.
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