|
zoux posted:I'm a paid globalist shill, myself.
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 15:44 |
|
|
Noam Chomsky posted:Pretty typical array of posters - PTD, Zoux, BI NOW GAY LATER, a few others - that come out hard for: trade agreements, anything Hillary related, the DNC, and against anyone who talks too mean about Republicans. "Everyone is arguing my arguments are flawed, but little do they know I know I'm right and therefore I'll show them by completely deflecting!" 
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:01
|
|
|
axeil posted:Are you aware of the concept of comparative advantage and David Ricardo's work on trade? thank you for posting the true facts the issue is just how we make sure that it's actually the case that everyone wins, instead of 'the average person' winning in the sense that one guy makes a billion dollars and a thousand people lose a thousand dollars
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:01
|
|
|
emdash posted:this doesn't really help. D&D has never been the hivemind of which people like to draw rhetorical caricatures. There were plenty of Sanders supporters, months back, saying things like "well the TPP opposition is dumb, but I still prefer Bernie" Eh, there is no helping this discussion. I just find it weird that the same four or five posters march lockstep with eachother on certain points and all show up in certain discussions like this to shout down, hard, anyone against their pet policies or people. I don't care about getting dogpiled but I'd at least like some variety. Also, I think, the same posters who have talked about growing up in conservative households and formerly being libertarians.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:01
|
|
|
(((Certain posters))) always come out against these things hmmm wonder why.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:01
|
|
|
think you mean (((globalist)))
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:01
|
|
|
Noam Chomsky posted:Pretty typical array of posters - PTD, Zoux, BI NOW GAY LATER, a few others - that come out hard for: trade agreements, anything Hillary related, the DNC, and against anyone who talks too mean about Republicans. Because those people actually want to argue in this stupid thread.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:01
|
|
|
Noam Chomsky posted:Eh, there is no helping this discussion. I just find it weird that the same four or five posters march lockstep with eachother on certain points and all show up in certain discussions like this to shout down, hard, anyone against their pet policies or people. I don't care about getting dogpiled but I'd at least like some variety. I'd still like to answer your question if you could share it, I don't consider myself part of any posting circlejerk or posse
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:01
|
|
|
Noam Chomsky posted:Pretty typical array of posters - PTD, Zoux, BI NOW GAY LATER, a few others - that come out hard for: trade agreements, anything Hillary related, the DNC, and against anyone who talks too mean about Republicans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMqZ2PPOLik
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
Noam Chomsky posted:Eh, there is no helping this discussion. I just find it weird that the same four or five posters march lockstep with eachother on certain points and all show up in certain discussions like this to shout down, hard, anyone against their pet policies or people. I don't care about getting dogpiled but I'd at least like some variety. Certain posters are stupid self-congratulatory idiots and consistently the worst poster in the thread, also.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
zoux posted:I'm a paid globalist shill, myself. I'm a trust fund baby, so I am a member of the globalist cabal and not just a paid shill. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
I don't think the majority of the posters here like TPP, it's just that the generalized anti-trade arguments aren't very good. There are still plenty of things to nitpick about the TPP that make it into a mixed bag.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
axeil posted:Free trade benefits everyone on the aggregate. But those aggregate benefits are being disproportionately claimed by the high-finance types who facilitate the trade, leaving the working population at a disadvantage. What good is a more efficient aggregate balance of trade if all the efficiency gains are snatched up by rent-seekers?
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:03
|
|
|
what's more interesting is that there are plenty of people that are anti-Brexit and anti-TPP, which is basically saying free trade is only bad if the jobs are going to poor people.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:03
|
|
|
theflyingorc posted:Certain posters are stupid self-congratulatory idiots and consistently the worst poster in the thread, also. Well, you're one of the group I was calling out. So...
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:03
|
|
|
Noam Chomsky posted:Eh, there is no helping this discussion. I just find it weird that the same four or five posters march lockstep with eachother on certain points and all show up in certain discussions like this to shout down, hard, anyone against their pet policies or people. I don't care about getting dogpiled but I'd at least like some variety. Also, I think, the same posters who have talked about growing up in conservative households and formerly being libertarians. lol if you think we're in lockstep just because we're all yelling at you for being dumb sorry about your victim complex "my god, it's so strange how all these people tell me i'm being stupid at the same time. it MUST be a conspiracy!"
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:03
|
|
|
UV_Catastrophe posted:I don't think the majority of the posters here like TPP, it's just that the generalized anti-trade arguments aren't very good. I like the TPP because the environmental and labor standards, while far from perfect, are a vast improvement over the status quo. Also Soros pays me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:03
|
|
|
Civilized Fishbot posted:thank you for posting the true facts Agreed. Everyone wins in the long run but if you lost your job due to a trade deal that is pretty lovely. Eventually the labor market will sort itself out, but that is cold comfort if you're 50 years old and have done nothing but work on an assembly line. The solution isn't "NO FREE TRADE" but "help out the people who are temporarily hurt".
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:04
|
|
|
zoux posted:(((Certain posters))) always come out against these things hmmm wonder why. I never get mentioned in the "You guys are mean to me. DaD is so terrible" posts. I'm sure to be fired. Noam Chomsky posted:Well, you're one of the group I was calling out. So... The purity purges begin anew. The purity purges have never stopped.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:04
|
|
|
Civilized Fishbot posted:but it doesn't have to be that way, because trade deals aren't mutually exclusive with carbon taxes and social safety nets You're right it doesn't. But as far as trade deals we've seen like NAFTA there tends not to be any sort real safety nets or climate provisions written in. The general idea of trade deals seems to be "these corporations will benefit greatly from this trade deal, and maybe the populace in these countries will benefit later, at some point because trickle down lol". The vast majority of people will not or have not benefited from deals like the TPP or NAFTA. I'm not anti-globalization(I actually think that at its core the notion of globalization is great), but if the only people benefiting are wealthy businessmen then its hard not to look at the concept in a harsh light.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:05
|
|
|
Matlock Birthmark posted:Because those people actually want to argue in this stupid thread. I wonder why people with similar political interests who also post in a debate forum also post in a similar fashion. That's so wierd.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:05
|
|
|
UV_Catastrophe posted:I don't think the majority of the posters here like TPP, it's just that the generalized anti-trade arguments aren't very good. Does anybody disagree with any of these points? Please post if you do 1. Some people make money when free trade is implemented, while other people lose money. 2. Generally speaking, the people who make money from free trade make more money than is lost by the people who lose money. 3. Ideally, the people who make money from free trade would give a lot of that money to the people who lose money from free trade, creating a situation where everyone makes money. 4. The ideal case stated in (3) is better than protectionism/no trade, because everyone has equal or more money than they did before free trade 5. Therefore, free trade and a social safety net is better than protectionism and no social safety net. It seems like pretty much everyone agrees on this, they just have varying beliefs about political viability of various policies
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:05
|
|
|
RiotGearEpsilon posted:But those aggregate benefits are being disproportionately claimed by the high-finance types who facilitate the trade, leaving the working population at a disadvantage. What good is a more efficient aggregate balance of trade if all the efficiency gains are snatched up by rent-seekers?  He works in finance. Trabisnikof posted:I like the TPP because the environmental and labor standards, while far from perfect, are a vast improvement over the status quo. I haven't read through it enough to know, is anyone aware of the specific enforcement mechanism set up to actually ensure that corporations adhere to these environmental and labor standards? because that seems like a massive, massive undertaking and would require full compliance of the authorities in every member state, which, lol
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
UV_Catastrophe posted:I don't think the majority of the posters here like TPP, it's just that the generalized anti-trade arguments aren't very good.  Protectionism is dumb, full stop. The TPP though is more about letting businesses in Vietnam, Chile, and the like have a better chance of competing with China than they do now while also guaranteeing some basic working protections.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
RiotGearEpsilon posted:But those aggregate benefits are being disproportionately claimed by the high-finance types who facilitate the trade, leaving the working population at a disadvantage. What good is a more efficient aggregate balance of trade if all the efficiency gains are snatched up by rent-seekers? [citation needed] Seriously, you need some proof behind that. Compare the price of say, a car between 1990 and today. When you factor in inflation, car prices have actually declined over the last 2.5 decades. Most people in America buy cars, so there's a benefit right there. If you're only spending $18k in 2016 dollars on a new car instead of $35k in 2016 dollars, that's a benefit.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:07
|
|
|
Also funny that I was boxed into being anti-free-trade by the usual suspects, because I said I don't blame Americans for being anti-TPP because NAFTA may have left a sour taste in their mouths.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:07
|
|
|
Civilized Fishbot posted:Does anybody disagree with any of these points? Please post if you do Agreed.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:07
|
|
|
Is there anything to the rumors floating around that Trump might drop out? Or is it just wishful thinking from those scared of his power to make america grate again?
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:07
|
|
|
Noam Chomsky posted:Also funny that I was boxed into being anti-free-trade by the usual suspects, because I said I don't blame Americans for being anti-TPP because NAFTA may have left a sour taste in their mouths. Oh this is all very funny, but not for why you think.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:08
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:lol if you think we're in lockstep just because we're all yelling at you for being dumb Yeah I mean look at me. I'm agreeing with the pro-TPP people but get us started on banking and finance discussions and we'll be on completely different sides. There Is No D&D Hivemind.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:08
|
|
|
Civilized Fishbot posted:Does anybody disagree with any of these points? Please post if you do
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:08
|
|
|
SquadronROE posted:Is there anything to the rumors floating around that Trump might drop out? Or is it just wishful thinking from those scared of his power to make america grate again? Nothing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:08
|
|
|
Noam Chomsky posted:Well, you're one of the group I was calling out. So... I'm completely aware of that, but it doesn't make you in any way, shape, or form not consistently one of the worst posters in this thread. Contribute something, anything of value to any discussion that isn't masturbatory and people will stop dogpiling you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:08
|
|
|
Trump should start talking soon so we can all move on to the next stupidity from him
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:09
|
|
|
Civilized Fishbot posted:Does anybody disagree with any of these points? Please post if you do But I think we're mainly focusing on whats actually happening. Ideally robots would do all the work we didn't want to do and we'd live on the moon or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:09
|
|
|
Noam Chomsky posted:Eh, there is no helping this discussion. I just find it weird that the same four or five posters march lockstep with eachother on certain points and all show up in certain discussions like this to shout down, hard, anyone against their pet policies or people. I don't care about getting dogpiled but I'd at least like some variety. Also, I think, the same posters who have talked about growing up in conservative households and formerly being libertarians. lol, I grew up in a staunchly democratic home.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:09
|
|
|
axeil posted:[citation needed] I'm gonna level with you: I don't actually have a strong opinion about the TPP. I just like formulating arguments for things. I apologize for wasting your time; you showed up with actual data and I have nothing that can match that.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:09
|
|
|
straight up brolic posted:no, ideally the people who make money from free trade are not in an economic position give away their money, but have had their quality of life improved dramatically and the people who lost their jobs can be retrained or provided with benefits that soften the blow. why aren't the people who make money from free trade in position to give some of that money away? the money doesn't have to come from poor vietnamese factoryline workers who got a raise, it can come from the factory owner who made millions by moving the factory to 'nam
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:10
|
|
|
SquadronROE posted:Is there anything to the rumors floating around that Trump might drop out? Or is it just wishful thinking from those scared of his power to make america grate again? Wishful thinking from the GOP establishment. I want him in tip the end and I'm stocking up on popcorn.
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 15:44 |
|
|
Reason posted:But I think we're mainly focusing on whats actually happening. Ideally robots would do all the work we didn't want to do and we'd live on the moon or whatever. political advocacy for/against social safety nets, and political advocacy against/for free trde, are both things that are actually happening
|
|
#
?
Aug 4, 2016 20:11
|
|