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Nessus posted:There is this strange legalism in conservative thought. I thought this desire for some kind of complicated torturous legal justification for, well, torture was absurd: if there was, somehow, some preposterous TV-esque chain of events where you have to break a man's fingers in order to get the nuclear disarm codes, then yes, you do that and you face trial later. That is presumably part of why we have things like pardons, so they can say "He broke the law, and the law is real, but in this specific situation we're letting him off." Just an uneducated guess, but if you make torture sorta legal then you can torture people, then when you're accused of torture you can say 'I didn't do anything illegal!'. Laypeople will assume there's no way torture could be legal in any form, and so when nothing happens to you because technically it was legal, they'll assume you didn't torture folks.
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Aug 15, 2016 23:42
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Boon posted:The first 25 seconds is all that matters. Best part is when she realizes he's not letting go and starts patting his arms in this polite, desperate, "Okay, Joe. We got it, Joe. You can let go now, Joe. Really. Joe? Joe?" kind of way. And Joe's just all, "I LIKE HUGS.  "
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Aug 15, 2016 23:42
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Nessus posted:There is this strange legalism in conservative thought. I thought this desire for some kind of complicated torturous legal justification for, well, torture was absurd: if there was, somehow, some preposterous TV-esque chain of events where you have to break a man's fingers in order to get the nuclear disarm codes, then yes, you do that and you face trial later. That is presumably part of why we have things like pardons, so they can say "He broke the law, and the law is real, but in this specific situation we're letting him off." They love the idea that they can act on their Hollywood-esque fantasies and imagine that the tortured logic will eventually apply to them, and only them. Just like the demand to carry guns at all times. Epic High Five posted:Conservatives are in favor of the immigration questionnaire for the same reason they used to love administering quizzes to vote. They know for a stone cold fact they can be manipulated to affect access, that's kind of the whole point This. It allows them to reject anyone they dislike, but with just barely enough to wiggle room so they can claim to be not-racist by pretending it to be "common sense". Of course, they ensure that these tests only apply to the groups they hate.
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Aug 15, 2016 23:43
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Geostomp posted:They love the idea that they can act on their Hollywood-esque fantasies and imagine that the tortured logic will eventually apply to them, and only them. Just like the demand to carry guns at all times. Distributed "randomly" of course. With plenty of questions like, "What was Abraham Lincoln commonly called?" where the administrator of the test can just say, "oh I don't ever remember hearing him called that" and reject it. You can appeal, and probably get strung up for taking a white man to court, but of course the pertinent bit is that you're denied access to the booth on the day of voting. In this case, you're shipped right back and have no legal standing in the first place. edit - LA's that they used to administer is available online here: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/jimcrow/voting_literacy.html See how well you do
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Aug 15, 2016 23:45
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It's August 15 and Trump is losing by a huge margin to Hillary. Not only must he avoid doing anything outrageously damaging to his campaign and hemorrhaging more supporters but he must also do things to get new supporters on board. Today's Big Deal speech may have avoided the first thing. But did it succeed with the second? In my opinion: lol no. Trump is running out of time and every day we check off the calendar is one less day for him to have some miraculous bounce back. And since miraculous bounce backs take weeks and not days well, clocks ticking. non ninja edit Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Aug 15, 2016 |
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Aug 15, 2016 23:48
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:It's August 15 and Trump is losing by a huge margin to Hillary. Not only must he avoid doing anything outrageously damaging to his campaign and hemorrhaging more supporters but he must also do things to get new supporters on bored. oh he's making them bored alright
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Aug 15, 2016 23:50
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Epic High Five posted:Distributed "randomly" of course. With plenty of questions like, "What was Abraham Lincoln commonly called?" where the administrator of the test can just say, "oh I don't ever remember hearing him called that" and reject it. Right, right, can't forget ignoring all historical precedent on the matter. They aren't racist, so clearly nothing racist could ever, ever be involved in the questions or testing process. It's all just common sense that you must know absolutely everything and have just the "right" mindset to get in. Immigrants that complain are just whining and criminals, proving they never deserved to be here. Unlike the brave, pasty white people born here.
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Aug 15, 2016 23:52
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:It's August 15 and Trump is losing by a huge margin to Hillary. Not only must he avoid doing anything outrageously damaging to his campaign and hemorrhaging more supporters but he must also do things to get new supporters on board. Today's Big Deal speech may have avoided the first thing. But did it succeed with the second? Yeah and later this week he'll say something that amounts to "gently caress the troops" or "gently caress women."
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Aug 15, 2016 23:56
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:It's August 15
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Aug 16, 2016 00:03
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I wonder how much you can point to old immigrant conflicts and assume the current issues will work out the same. Like I grew up in a town with a big immigrant population of pretty much anywhere we had a military action/bases pre-2000. There were certainly racist comments ("no I'm *from* here" says the 'foreign' looking kid for the thousandth time) but no one even joked about the possibility of a Vietnamese guy suddenly taking to the streets with an AK because he was a Vietcong sleeper agent. There definitely weren't multiple popular TV shows devoted to showing that happening. Is it is being too optimistic to just expect this to all blow over eventually?
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Aug 16, 2016 00:04
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FuzzySlippers posted:I wonder how much you can point to old immigrant conflicts and assume the current issues will work out the same. Like I grew up in a town with a big immigrant population of pretty much anywhere we had a military action/bases pre-2000. There were certainly racist comments ("no I'm *from* here" says the 'foreign' looking kid for the thousandth time) but no one even joked about the possibility of a Vietnamese guy suddenly taking to the streets with an AK because he was a Vietcong sleeper agent. There definitely weren't multiple popular TV shows devoted to showing that happening. Is it is being too optimistic to just expect this to all blow over eventually?
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Aug 16, 2016 00:06
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Built 4 Cuban Linux posted:Giuliani was clearly talking about the 8 years since the PATRIOT act was passed (a month after 9/11). Which is a really stupid point in my opinion, but I think people need to look at the context on this one. I agree that looking at the context of it is important and that he almost certainly did mean the timeframe between when the PATRIOT Act was passed and when Obama took office and I'd even give him a pass for saying '8 years' when the actual length of time he is referring to is shorter than that; the mistake would be on exaggerating the length of time and not on forgetting that 9/11 happened. Except, you do not get a pass when you are latching yourself to the side which uses 'they didn't say the magical anti-terrorist phrase!' as a main method of attack. If your side in any debate at all decides to constantly be so petty and picky over the other side choosing to refer to something with a label you deem 'improper', you absolutely deserve to be criticized, questioned, and laughed at every single time you make a statement which needs to be corrected with "but what I was really saying was...". It's important for us to keep the context in mind and to try to honestly figure out what is realistically the intended meaning behind a phrase and under normal circumstances it's generally in everyone's best interest to let an occasional poor, accidental choice of phrase slide because it's better to pay attention to the actual argument being made rather than focusing on a slip of the tongue, but you should be bashed by critics from all sides for poor phrasing if you are the one who keeps focusing on phrasing in the first place.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:06
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Built 4 Cuban Linux posted:Giuliani was clearly talking about the 8 years since the PATRIOT act was passed (a month after 9/11). Which is a really stupid point in my opinion, but I think people need to look at the context on this one. I agree, and the context is that Republicans have been playing fast and loose with history for loving years, in blatantly obvious attempts at pandering to a base that has been indoctrinated to believe that every single one of the USA's current problems did not exist until after Obama was elected. So in that regard, I have no doubts that Giuliani said exactly what he meant to say.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:22
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he was probably just being sarcastic
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Aug 16, 2016 00:23
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Seeric posted:I agree that looking at the context of it is important and that he almost certainly did mean the timeframe between when the PATRIOT Act was passed and when Obama took office and I'd even give him a pass for saying '8 years' when the actual length of time he is referring to is shorter than that; the mistake would be on exaggerating the length of time and not on forgetting that 9/11 happened. Except, you do not get a pass when you are latching yourself to the side which uses 'they didn't say the magical anti-terrorist phrase!' as a main method of attack. Rudy made this claim already. Discounting 9/11, there /were/ terrorist attacks in Bush's terms, even after 9/11 and PATRIOT. They didn't get much coverage because with the exception of one (beltline sniper), no fatalities or the attack fizzled (shoe bomber)
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Aug 16, 2016 00:25
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You know, Hillary never holding press conferences is funny as hell in light of Trump holding one every other day where he just digs himself deeper and deeper into oblivion. Soon enough he might actually be in China and then we'd have a whole 'nother border we'd have to 'build a wall' for.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:26
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FactsAreUseless posted:You should be looking for parallels to the treatment of the Japanese in WW2, not the Vietnamese during Vietnam. Obviously add -Americans as relevant. But it's a more apt comparison. How so? We haven't had large scale interment camps in the US during any of our Middle East conflicts much less second generation immigrants like we did during WW2. After WW2 there was no random violence from Japanese immigrants (weird stuff like Mishima in Japan doesn't count) that conservatives could point to as an example that the Japanese couldn't be trusted. In fact the immediate start of the cold war meant post WW2 we embraced both the Japanese and Germans faster than normal. Distrust of foreign born citizens during an actual war is pretty different than distrusting anyone vaguely from a region during decades of conflict without any kind of expected end point.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:29
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Party Plane Jones posted:You know, Hillary never holding press conferences is funny as hell in light of Trump holding one every other day where he just digs himself deeper and deeper into oblivion. He hasn't held a press conference since the "RUSSIA HACK HER EMAILS PLZ" debacle. He has campaign rallies, which draw a lot more attention than Hillary's because he's been known to say some very incendiary (or insanely stupid) remarks at them. Hillary's are predictable, boring affairs, but let's be honest, it's keeping heat off her.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:29
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Party Plane Jones posted:You know, Hillary never holding press conferences is funny as hell in light of Trump holding one every other day where he just digs himself deeper and deeper into oblivion. This is because she believes the current iteration of the press is a craven and soulless institution that is an active impediment to the machinery of democracy, and this belief of hers is absolutely one of my favorite things about her
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Aug 16, 2016 00:30
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iospace posted:He hasn't held a press conference since the "RUSSIA HACK HER EMAILS PLZ" debacle. He has campaign rallies, which draw a lot more attention than Hillary's because he's been known to say some very incendiary (or insanely stupid) remarks at them. Hillary's are predictable, boring affairs, but let's be honest, it's keeping heat off her. actually, she does a lot of local press events, which get you favorable, local press doting on the fact you bothered to show up while trump blows ups n national news with his latest word salad of hate and petite fasc
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Aug 16, 2016 00:33
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ImpAtom posted:I have to say that for anyone in their 70s becoming President is a loving amazing thought to me. The thought of dealing with that level of work and stress in your 70s, even if you've got the best doctors on the planet, is mind-boggling. 70 is the age my grandmother could barely get out of bed anymore and Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump both have days that make my toughest work day look like a breeze pretty much every day of the week. Yeah well the thing to remember is that (almost) all the people who have become president, or even ran for president in a serious fashion in modern times, have both been born into relative wealth and also remained wealthy throughout their entire lives. Your grandmother probably did actual labor at some point in her life. These people might have hard days, especially in campaign season, but they haven't worked for a lifetime like the average 70 year old has, and at no point in their lives did they ever have to suffer an illness without adequate medical care. They had the best care money could buy, unlike most 70 year olds who at some point in their life likely had to choose between going to see a doctor or getting bills paid. Basically, yeah they're old but money has a way of keeping people young.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:35
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Epic High Five posted:This is because she believes the current iteration of the press is a craven and soulless institution that is an active impediment to the machinery of democracy, and this belief of hers is absolutely one of my favorite things about her Agreed. She has decades of experience that tells her how gutless and sensationalist the media gets, especially during election years, so she's not playing into the game. No "he said, she said" false equivalency horse race for them, just let Trump and the rest of the GOP make asses of themselves while she waits.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:35
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Modern Day Hercules posted:Yeah well the thing to remember is that (almost) all the people who have become president, or even ran for president in a serious fashion in modern times, have both been born into relative wealth and also remained wealthy throughout their entire lives. Your grandmother probably did actual labor at some point in her life. These people might have hard days, especially in campaign season, but they haven't worked for a lifetime like the average 70 year old has, and at no point in their lives did they ever have to suffer an illness without adequate medical care. They had the best care money could buy, unlike most 70 year olds who at some point in their life likely had to choose between going to see a doctor or getting bills paid. as for the last two GOP presidents, well they're from the same family and rich as gently caress, so yeah
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Aug 16, 2016 00:41
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Epic High Five posted:This is because she believes the current iteration of the press is a craven and soulless institution that is an active impediment to the machinery of democracy, and this belief of hers is absolutely one of my favorite things about her Hunter S. Thompson posted:Journalism is not a profession or a trade. It is a cheap catch-all for fuckoffs and misfits—a false doorway to the backside of life, a filthy piss-ridden little hole nailed off by the building inspector, but just deep enough for a wino to curl up from the sidewalk and masturbate like a chimp in a zoo-cage. I'd agree with how she's been treated since, what, 1991/2? Even Laura Bush didn't get that level of scrutiny, and she, you know, killed a dude.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:43
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Party Plane Jones posted:I'd agree with how she's been treated since, what, 1991/2? Even Laura Bush didn't get that level of scrutiny, and she, you know, killed a dude. I had to look that up. Hillary, you need to up your game. Snopes has the score at 1/0
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Aug 16, 2016 00:45
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Zanzibar Ham posted:Just an uneducated guess, but if you make torture sorta legal then you can torture people, then when you're accused of torture you can say 'I didn't do anything illegal!'. Laypeople will assume there's no way torture could be legal in any form, and so when nothing happens to you because technically it was legal, they'll assume you didn't torture folks. "Waterboarding isn't considered torture. Therefore, what we were doing was simply enhanced interrogation, not torture." edit: Waterboarding is definitely torture. I lasted less than 30 seconds when it was done by a friend, to see what it was like. I can't imagine how horrible it would be to have it done for longer, and to not know you could make it stop by struggling even lightly and slapping your hand on the table. FuzzySlippers posted:How so? We haven't had large scale interment camps in the US during any of our Middle East conflicts much less second generation immigrants like we did during WW2. Anecdotal, but I work with a group that does placement of foreign exchange students in my small town, and one of the old fellows here was being presented an award for his years and years of service. He told us a story about how the first student brought over was a young teenager from Japan, and most of the folks in town initially treated her like garbage, because a lot of them were WWII veterans. By the end of her stay, she'd won them over, and they were regularly inviting her over for dinner at their homes, and she recently made a trip here to visit old friends and see the latest crop of students get sent off and arrive. She first came over in the early 1980s. Not nearly so bad as the treatment of those from the Middle East, but fear and distrust of the Japanese was definitely A Thing. Toph Bei Fong fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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Aug 16, 2016 00:45
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Nevermind that Japanese generals were executed after WW2 for waterboarding
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Aug 16, 2016 00:49
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iospace posted:He hasn't held a press conference since the "RUSSIA HACK HER EMAILS PLZ" debacle. He has campaign rallies, which draw a lot more attention than Hillary's because he's been known to say some very incendiary (or insanely stupid) remarks at them. Hillary's are predictable, boring affairs, but let's be honest, it's keeping heat off her. Is he still only doing rallies? AKA not doing 99.999% of the stuff a nom/real politician do when making the sausage.
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Aug 16, 2016 00:57
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Inferior Third Season posted:Wow. Time flies. It's only sinking in now that we only have a bit more than two months until the beginning of the 2020 campaign season. When Trump will begin talking about becoming the Republican nominee again
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Aug 16, 2016 01:08
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My country had written tests for immigrants. I can assure you that it was racist as gently caress.
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Aug 16, 2016 01:08
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FuturePastNow posted:When Trump will begin talking about becoming the Republican nominee again Donald Trump is going to be the new, much more embarrassing Ron Paul. Only question is if he keeps coming back as a worse cancer for the Republicans because people keep falling for him.
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Aug 16, 2016 01:11
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PhazonLink posted:Is he still only doing rallies? AKA not doing 99.999% of the stuff a nom/real politician do when making the sausage. I think he's addicted to the rush of doing rallies and he's convinced that because he can pack a gymnasium full of angry white people that it somehow means all the polls are wrong. I'm starting to get a little worried, though, because the last few rallies he has tried turning the crowd on the press corps in a way that's going to end badly.
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Aug 16, 2016 01:17
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Party Plane Jones posted:I'd agree with how she's been treated since, what, 1991/2? Even Laura Bush didn't get that level of scrutiny, and she, you know, killed a dude. Longer. She's been putting up with their poo poo since Bill's gubernatorial runs in the 80s.
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Aug 16, 2016 01:20
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PhazonLink posted:Is he still only doing rallies? AKA not doing 99.999% of the stuff a nom/real politician do when making the sausage. As far as I can tell, yes. Little to no GOTV, little to no ads, hoping the RWM can bail him out.
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Aug 16, 2016 01:27
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The Lone Badger posted:My country had written tests for immigrants. I can assure you that it was racist as gently caress. Got any details about this? I'd love to have a historical example to use when people say it's a good idea.
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Aug 16, 2016 01:28
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smg77 posted:I think he's addicted to the rush of doing rallies and he's convinced that because he can pack a gymnasium full of angry white people that it somehow means all the polls are wrong. I'm starting to get a little worried, though, because the last few rallies he has tried turning the crowd on the press corps in a way that's going to end badly. If Trump calls for the mob to attack journos, that will be the end of him. Because they'll stop following him, and a candidate who is doing no groundwork and buying no ads and isn't covered by 4/5ths of the news orgs isn't a candidate that will get 10% of the popular vote. I honestly believe it's the one thing that would absolutely sink his campaign, if the news stopped giving him billions in free airtime. There's still time for all kinds of nonsense that could lead to a depressed Hillary turnout, while Teflon Don is bulletproof it seems, the product of low expectations and a high threshold for not calling people on their poo poo. But if the Press is disrespected or literally unsafe, that'll end it right quick.
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Aug 16, 2016 01:28
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I'm really, really happy that PPP is bringing back Deez Nutz. Seriously, with the amount of people who are in the "UGH TO BOTH" camp, Deez Nutz would make an amazing comeback
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Aug 16, 2016 01:32
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ImpAtom posted:So like, assuming the HILLARY CLINTON IS DYING OF MULTICANCER rumors are true, isn't like that a good thing for the Republicans? It means that Tim "Literally Ned Flanders" Kaine would be president instead of the Queen Alien. If she steps down or dies before the general, it'll be up to the DNC who takes her place. They could pick Tim if they wanted, but chances are in that case Bernie will ride again.
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Aug 16, 2016 01:34
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It's funny because Trump's older.
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Aug 16, 2016 01:37
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https://twitter.com/SopanDeb/status/765344947784585217?lang=en Context: Reporters mock-ambush Spon Deb after a run. Fox news guy tweets the above: "It gives me a headache just trying to think down to your level"-Marvin/Slartibartfast 2016 Distorted Kiwi fucked around with this message at 01:43 on Aug 16, 2016 |
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