EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

LemonDrizzle posted:

I very much want to see a Sarko-Le Pen faceoff in 2017 if only so my country becomes less isolated in terms of making terrible choices for no particularly good reason.

Le Pen is going to round up all the Muslims in France and force them to march to Britain through the Chunnel.

# ? Sep 4, 2016 18:21

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# ? May 17, 2024 22:48

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

ReagaNOMNOMicks posted:

Mini-poll: if it boils down to Le Pen-Sarkozy, what's the best building that provides both cover and a quit exit. To take pictures from. The building. Pictures of the next president. Oh god please don't click submit to lat

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

enjoy your fiche s

# ? Sep 4, 2016 18:21

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Nyandaber Z posted:

The media did mention the death and the march but didn't look into it deeper, and they quickly stopped talking about it because burkinis are more important. Even the anti-racists associations did the minimum, while being on top of the latest muslim beachwear fashion.

That's mostly because when they did the same kind of protest a few years back, many people in the Chinese community blamed "north african and black" criminals "from the ghettos" for their troubles, making most members of the anti-racists associations want to kill themselves out of despair.

# ? Sep 4, 2016 18:27

Private Speech: Mar 30, 2011; I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Le Pen is going to round up all the Muslims in France and force them to march to Britain through the Chunnel.

May then declares it an EU-caused public emergency that has to be met with the force of arms if need be and sets up a minefield in front of the UK exit.

Despite all the refugees dying both sides are privately content with the result.

# ? Sep 4, 2016 18:41

Homeless Friend: Jul 16, 2007

A Buttery Pastry posted:

Le Pen is going to round up all the Muslims in France and force them to march to Britain through the Chunnel.

This sounds like a setup for a nuclear apocalypse, the world will blowup as they march through and it'll be metro 2033 except muslims. Sounds pretty cool tbh.

# ? Sep 4, 2016 19:08

double nine: Aug 8, 2013

Belgian government has decided to improve security in Brussels subways:

I feel safer already

# ? Sep 4, 2016 19:12

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

Private Speech posted:

Despite all the refugees dying both sides are privately content with the result.

So, how many posters in this thread think there were almost no Muslims in France until the refugee crisis? Because it's not the first post I see that implies this.

# ? Sep 4, 2016 19:17

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Homeless Friend posted:

This sounds like a setup for a nuclear apocalypse, the world will blowup as they march through and it'll be metro 2033 except muslims. Sounds pretty cool tbh.

Gonna be a bit cramped though, with a population density roughly 5 times that of Kowloon Walled City.

# ? Sep 4, 2016 19:21

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Kassad posted:

So, how many posters in this thread think there were almost no Muslims in France until the refugee crisis? Because it's not the first post I see that implies this.

I read it that the Muslims ejected by Le Pen would be refugees.

# ? Sep 4, 2016 19:43

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Speaking of Sarkozy, guess who just got involved in the criminal trial of his party's illegal financing of his 2012 presidential campaign, just in the middle of his party primary?

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Sep 5, 2016

# ? Sep 5, 2016 10:27

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

All I want for Christmas is Sarkozy in jail.

# ? Sep 5, 2016 10:58

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

Good piece on the attempted assassination of Francois Hollande by the coward Emmanuel Macron. It's kind of hard to excerpt because there's a lot of interesting stuff: http://www.politico.eu/article/macrons-choice-kill-hollande-or-be-killed/

quote:

PARIS � Emmanuel Macron is �dishonest,� �a traitor,� a �deserter� and �political monster,� �a felon� whose aim is �to destroy the Socialist party.� And that�s just according to the Socialist politicians whose camp he supposedly belongs to.
The least that can be said about the French economy minister�s resignation last week is that it wasn�t met with indifference among the French political class. Even though his overt goal is to rise above partisan politics, the fury his move unleashed also helps understand the challenge Macron faces if he wants to mount a presidential bid next year: He can�t count on the Socialist party�s support, but he can�t take the risk of running as an opponent to his former mentor Fran�ois Hollande. That would push the �traitor� narrative to the extreme.
...
Macron understands his Socialist problem enough that he isn�t even considering running in the party�s primary, to be held next January. If he runs, it would be in the general election (due in May 2017) as an independent candidate intent on demonstrating, as he has said repeatedly, that �the old divide between left and right� doesn�t mean anything anymore.
Hence the strategy: Force Hollande to give up so Macron can step into the void. Macron was compared to Brutus after his resignation. But instead of a dagger, he seems to prefer the pillow and a strategy of gradual smothering, slowly creating a situation where Hollande will have no choice but to admit that he must abstain.
Arnaud Leroy, one of the handful of Socialist MPs who have declared their support for Macron, thinks this could well happen in the current French political context. He quoted one of Hollande�s own ministers, Jean-Marie Le Guen, an ally of Macron�s arch-enemy, Prime Minister Manuel Valls, who quipped last week that the Socialist Party was �dead already.�
To try to nudge Hollande toward the exit, Macron is expected in the next three months to develop the kind of center-left reformist platform Hollande would be expected to defend in a presidential campaign.
...
Pre-emptively eliminating Hollande from the race might prove easier than previously thought. A defeat of the sitting president in his own Socialist Party primary, which seemed inconceivable a few weeks ago, suddenly looks possible: Leftist candidate Arnaud Montebourg now polls almost as much as Hollande among likely Socialist voters.
Hollande giving up, however, would only be the first obstacle removed on the road to a Macron presidency. Even without the outgoing president, Macron would soon realize that the ideological space he wants to occupy is already over-crowded.
If former Prime Minister Alain Jupp� is the conservative candidate, Macron�s supporters from the right will vote with their own camp. But if former President Nicolas Sarkozy wins the R�publicains party�s primary, that would most likely trigger the candidacy of perennial centrist contender Fran�ois Bayrou, in reaction to Sarkozy�s hard-right platform.
�Whatever scenario, Macron looks always stuck between the right�s left and the left�s right,� Cautres said.
...
Finally, Macron has to find a way to deal with his own personality problem. Will the French deem presidential material a man who is mostly known for his calls to end the 35-hour week and liberalize services? After the string of terror attacks that have hit France since January 2015, with the country�s military engaged on several fronts, and with Europe in deep crisis, the willingness of the French to risk choosing a president who is untested on security matters and has never run for office is a serious matter of conjecture.

I guess I'm displaying my near-total ignorance of French politics here, but I didn't know there was bad blood between Valls and Macron - I thought they were (broadly speaking) allies on the right of the socialists. Was that once the case?

# ? Sep 6, 2016 07:19

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

LemonDrizzle posted:

I guess I'm displaying my near-total ignorance of French politics here, but I didn't know there was bad blood between Valls and Macron - I thought they were (broadly speaking) allies on the right of the socialists. Was that once the case?

Nope. Valls is a pretty hardcore party man/soldier for the PS since the early 80s and somewhat a rarity for the french political class did not graduate from the ENA, Macron (an ENA graduate and former investment banker) is a late comer to the party (he joined in the mid 2000s and hasn't pay his party dues since 2009 and is called the "Phantom of Solferino" by many) went from secretary at the Elys�e to Minister of Finance (thanks to his experience in the Rothschild Group). They represent (or in the case of Macron "pretend to represent") different roads to reform the PS and they both want to be president to do it. So it was a pretty obvious Older Ambitious man versus Younger ultra arrivist guy from the start. Valls used macron to push his government on the right but the minute he said stop, Macron went "gently caress IT LET'S CONTINUE; I WILL START MY OWN PARTY, WITH WHORES AND BLACKJACK TABLES". Basicly they both went to drag the PS to the right but Valls went to stay social democrat/third way, while macron is old center right as gently caress.

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Sep 6, 2016

# ? Sep 6, 2016 07:46

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

building on that, macron and valls are right-wing in very different ways - macron is very much a representative of the cosmopolitan bourgeoisie, whereas valls is probably europe's leading exponent of the "national identity" doctrine of solving the crisis of social democracy - effectively abandoning notional internationalism in order to fight back against the FN advance. french political history is set up to make this move more credible than elsewhere, but it's still a very hard sell for a variety of reasons, not least the moral outrage and diverse background of the modern left's activist base

# ? Sep 6, 2016 14:49

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

They're bitter rivals who can only work together when it comes to a project they both agree too, such as rolling back all the social progress accomplished since the Front Populaire.

This is what qualifies them as left-wing, because the right-wing's goal is to roll back all the social progress accomplished since the Revolution. Modern day socialists merely want to return to 1930, while the republicans want to return all the way to 1780. Basically both parties are named after the things they hate the most.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 15:02

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

V. Illych L. posted:

building on that, macron and valls are right-wing in very different ways - macron is very much a representative of the cosmopolitan bourgeoisie, whereas valls is probably europe's leading exponent of the "national identity" doctrine of solving the crisis of social democracy - effectively abandoning notional internationalism in order to fight back against the FN advance. french political history is set up to make this move more credible than elsewhere, but it's still a very hard sell for a variety of reasons, not least the moral outrage and diverse background of the modern left's activist base

My impression was that the neoliberal wing of the French left was very weak compared to in Anglo countries or say Germany, though? What is the feeling in the party base, is Macron moving against it?

# ? Sep 6, 2016 15:15

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

icantfindaname posted:

My impression was that the neoliberal wing of the French left was very weak compared to in Anglo countries or say Germany, though? What is the feeling in the party base, is Macron moving against it?

i haven't lived in france since before macron became prominent, so i honestly don't know

# ? Sep 6, 2016 15:18

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Cat Mattress posted:

This is what qualifies them as left-wing, because the right-wing's goal is to roll back all the social progress accomplished since the Revolution. Modern day socialists merely want to return to 1930, while the republicans want to return all the way to 1780. Basically both parties are named after the things they hate the most.

My favorite part is that they renamed the party "the republicans" a few months after Cop� denounced a "unhealthy ambiance in the parliament, like during the night of the 4th of august 1789!" to his parliament group in the middle of the "Woerth-Bettencourt" affair. Yeah what an horrible night the 4th of august was, when everyone from nobles to cities renounced to their privileges.

icantfindaname posted:

My impression was that the neoliberal wing of the French left was very weak compared to in Anglo countries or say Germany, though? What is the feeling in the party base, is Macron moving against it?

The neoliberal wing of the PS is a sinking ship since DSK went down because of his dick. The base loving hate Hollande for going full Schroeder on them. And Macron don't give poo poo about the base. He entered the PS because they were in desperate need for any competent looking economic guy on their side and he had the profile if not the right political opinions and then later Macron used his position as economical advisor of the president to become minister super young. That the most Rastignac thing ever. Still beat marrying his highschool teacher. Still he betrayed too soon and too fast. 2017 isn't a good situation for him. Also being compared to POMPIDOU at age 38, is like the loving kiss of death if you ask me.

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Sep 6, 2016

# ? Sep 6, 2016 15:24

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

yikes

# ? Sep 6, 2016 15:57

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

For those who don't get it: "fdesouche.com" stands for "fran�ais de souche", or pureblood French in English. It's a far-right news website.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 16:05

Nitrousoxide: May 30, 2011; do not buy a oneplus phone

They didn't teach me racist French in school. Can you translate that?

# ? Sep 6, 2016 16:10

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

it's a school book about civics, the quote isn't particularly racist (it's about diversity in elite schools) but hilariously the makers of the book chose to source their quotes to a notorious far right website

# ? Sep 6, 2016 16:14

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

It's like a texan school book quoting Obama and then sourcing it to stormfront.org

# ? Sep 6, 2016 17:50

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

They wanted a source for their quote about Fadela Amara explaining that wanting more people with scholarships in the prestigious grandes �coles was also about increasing diversity in there, and the first they found was a racist site that had hoarded this citation probably as a way to prove the ongoing great replacement conspiracy.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 18:29

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

Toplowtech posted:

It's like a texan school book quoting Obama and then sourcing it to stormfront.org

I doubt they'd be that obvious. Conservapedia or Breitbart I can believe.

# ? Sep 6, 2016 18:34

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

Bastia's high court uphold the public order decree in a Corsican village, you thought this was the end but nope

# ? Sep 6, 2016 22:36

LemonDrizzle: Mar 28, 2012; neoliberal shithead

itshappening dot jay eye eff

e: same thing with Juppe instead of Sarko:

Also, the PVV may or may not be on course to come out on top in the Dutch elections this year so hopefully we can all go into an destructive spiral of political insanity together.

LemonDrizzle fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Sep 7, 2016

# ? Sep 7, 2016 00:38

Goatse James Bond: Mar 28, 2010; If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

Kurtofan posted:

Bastia's high court uphold the public order decree in a Corsican village, you thought this was the end but nope

Corsica knows what they did.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 00:42

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

lol I hope M�lenchon beats Hollande

# ? Sep 7, 2016 09:01

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

Maybe this time around Cheminade will reach 1% :unsmith:

(lol no he won't)

# ? Sep 7, 2016 09:10

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

I hope Asselineau makes it, just so my insane upr facebook friends can have something to post about

MEDIAS ARENT TALKING ABOUT IT

# ? Sep 7, 2016 09:28

Nyandaber Z: Apr 8, 2009

I can already tell how it's going to turn out: Marine Le Pen is going to loose, whoever got elected just because they're not her will do a winning speech about how they're proud that everyone gave them their trust, how they totally heard the people voting FN because they're pissed by the current politics, and how they'll totally change France for the better while they'll actually continue the same poo poo that gives FN more votes. Repeat until LePen get elected and sinks the country or they sink the country themselves. Either way we're hosed.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 09:49

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

LemonDrizzle posted:

itshappening dot jay eye eff

e: same thing with Juppe instead of Sarko:

Also, the PVV may or may not be on course to come out on top in the Dutch elections this year so hopefully we can all go into an destructive spiral of political insanity together.

Who is Jupp�? Never heard of him.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 10:47

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Libluini posted:

Who is Jupp�? Never heard of him.

Former Prime Minister, mayor of Bordeaux, criminal convict. "He is the best amongst us!" - most rightwingers after Jupp� went to jail to protect their whole party, but before Jupp� get stabbed in the back multiple times by Sarkosists.

vvvv that would be Adolphe Thiers.

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Sep 7, 2016

# ? Sep 7, 2016 11:02

lollontee: Nov 4, 2014; Can't post for 10 years!

Preliminary congratulations to Hollande for claiming the title of the worst president in France's history.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 11:02

Bulbo: Nov 4, 2012

Libluini posted:

Who is Jupp�? Never heard of him.

Meet Alain Jupp�. He's 71 but always looked like an old man. He's a long time fixture of the RPR/UMP/LR, having served as Budget Minister, Foreign Affairs Minister and Prime Minister.

He spent years as Chirac's right-hand man. He served him at the Paris City Hall where he took part in Chirac's system of bribery, fake construction contracts and political kickbacks. He was later busted for it and condemned to the harshest sentence imaginable: one year of exile in Canada. Well actually, he was barred from public life for one year and crossed the Atlantic to teach economics in some college and make people forget him. (He was later welcomed back into the fold because: 1- lol nothing matters, and 2- everyone knew he'd fallen onto his sword to protect Jacques.)

But before being disgraced by communist judges he served as Chichi's first Prime Minister, from 1995 to 1997. His brand of technocratic reform lead to the biggest strikes in decades when he went after the pension system. France has a lively tradition of strikes, but the 95/96 shitshow is remembered today as "the last big one". He was seen as cold and authoritarian at the time, insisting he'd stay "straight up in his boots" and wouldn't back down when the entire country was in the street against him. (He did back down in the end, but not before becoming the least popular PM in history.)

He's been Mayor of Bordeaux on and off for 20 years and from what I gather he actually did a good job there and enjoys a lot of local support.

What matters though is that, as the last chiraquien on the board he loathes Sarko and makes for a good alternative in the primaries: he's very experienced, highly intelligent (Chirac famously introduced him as "the best among us"), his image has somewhat mellowed with time and, most importantly, he is not named Nicolas Sarkozy.

Politicaly he is as right-wing austerity �ber Alles as they come, but he is not a hard liner on "national identity". This will probably hurt him in the primaries considering Sarko's tone, but might help in the general with the center and left wing who won't see him as a scarecrow.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 11:39

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Nyandaber Z posted:

I can already tell how it's going to turn out: Marine Le Pen is going to loose, whoever got elected just because they're not her will do a winning speech about how they're proud that everyone gave them their trust, how they totally heard the people voting FN because they're pissed by the current politics, and how they'll totally change France for the better while they'll actually continue the same poo poo that gives FN more votes. Repeat until LePen get elected and sinks the country or they sink the country themselves. Either way we're hosed.

Yep, they've won, they've reached the point where avoiding a Le Pen victory doesn't seem really meaningful or important anymore. gently caress them.

Libluini posted:

Who is Jupp�? Never heard of him.

It's the guy who wanted to sell Thomson (now Thales) for one (1) franc to Daewoo. Because Thomson's finance were bad, while Daewoo's were excellent! Public outcry successfully aborted the sale, and then a few months later Daewoo went bankrupt.

Fun fact: Jupp� was nicknamed "Amstrad" early on in his career because of how modern and technocratic he was!

Friendly Humour posted:

Preliminary congratulations to Hollande for claiming the title of the worst president in France's history.

Nah, Sarkozy was still worse. At least Hollande wasn't a complete disaster on foreign policy; for example I really doubt Sarko would have obtained an agreement for the COP 21 (or even cared about getting one anyway). And if we look outside of the fifth republic, then there's harsh competition for the title.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 11:42

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

aka the last president before President Marine

# ? Sep 7, 2016 11:43

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Cat Mattress posted:

Fun fact: Jupp� was nicknamed "Amstrad" early on in his career because of how modern and technocratic he was!

Jupp�, Woerth and Baroin are literally successive versions of the same model. Sarkozy literally used Woerth like Chirac used Jupp�, thanks god the Baroin model is out now, so he could upgrade.

# ? Sep 7, 2016 12:08

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# ? May 17, 2024 22:48

Kurtofan: Feb 16, 2011; hon hon hon

aka the oldest man on earth

# ? Sep 7, 2016 12:18

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